alsfarms Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) I was perusing on a thread somewhere on this huge AACA forum base and read a nice chat regarding a wheel spinning device that seems to be a very good idea for painting wire wheels. Now a month later, even using the AACA search engine, I can't find that chat again. Could someone here with better apparent search skills, please direct me to that chat? Al Edited January 6, 2023 by alsfarms spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 All you need is a front hub and spindle and a fixture to hold it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 I've had all of my wire wheels powder coated. It's much cheaper than paint and holds up better. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 Yes, the chat I referenced had a few pictures of a "gizmo" built to turn several wheels at once. I have most of the pieces to build a turning machine and an idea for the hubs but would like to determine a slow running power source. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 Steve thanks for the comment on powder coating. I have experience with powder coating on a set of 24" Houk wire wheels. They are robust and very nice in appearance. These wheels were nice to start with and not real pitted. I have two sets of wire wheels that need to be painted as they are going to need plenty of hand work to smooth out surface pits to allow for a nice looking wheel when done. This means I will be painting them. On another subject, I see that you and your Dad are Franklin guy's. Is it possible that either of you may have a set of mid 20's Franklin cast windshield visor brackets? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 Do those reading here have any thoughts on using this variable speed high torque motor to run a wheel turning device? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 (edited) I used a front axle and a barbecue motor of the sort everyone used to have in the 50s-70s. I was painting artillery wheels, but that doesn't really matter. The motor was clearly overloaded, and it was necessary to tape weights to the wheels to balance them. Otherwise the motor took too much abuse when the heavy spot went over the top. I disassembled and reoiled and regreased the motor and gears several times in the interest of preventing trouble since it seemed so ridiculously overloaded. I did 4 wheels, one wheel at a time, 3 coats, one coat of paint per session. I will eventually do 2 more wheels. I did inside, outside, and tire area separately, because it was just too much to handle all at once. I don't know how many RPM the barbecue is, but it is just a hair too fast. If it was slower it might be practical to do more at once, but I would still need to do some part separately, like probably the tire area, so that balance weight could be taped to an area not currently being painted. My guess is you need to gear down that motor in the posting above a bunch more with pulleys, but I can't say for sure because I don't really have any grasp on how fast my setup was turning. Edited January 6, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 Thanks for your response and telling of your experience. I am thinking that using two pairs of good quality pillow block bearings, two 2' pieces of 1" 1018 round bar, with the ends threaded and machined to have a stop, I could build a couple of aluminum dummy hubs that I could clamp the wheel to the round bard and have then run concentrically. (The wheels I am painting are Buffalo wire wheels). The shown variable speed "high torque" ac drive that runs between 27 RPM and 0 should make it where I could pick the right speed of rotation for the painting process. It is my intent to paint four wheels at a time, likely tire side first, then inside and last outside. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Are you going to spray them or brush them? I was brushing. 27 and 0 RPM? That should be fine then. When I first read that, I thought 27RPM was the slowest setting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 For this Buffalo wheel job, I will be spraying with HVLP gravity fed gun, so I can get a good well atomized and lite spray pattern that will allow me several build coats to make darn sure good and complete coverage. If my homebrew hubs work, as I am thinking they will, this could also make easy the striping process in the future. I am thinking that maybe 2 or 3 RPM would be good to have the right movement to stop runs yet allow even good coverage. The high torque variable drive, shown above, that would allow adjustment to a very slow speed should work good. It could be speeded up if you sense that you still may develop paint sag. I still need to sand blast and fill surface pitting before I get to the etch/sealer black or gray primer. The end color will be a dark flavor of red, contrasting primer will allow me to see and make sure of full coverage of the color coat. Al 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I used a old engine stand,( not worried about paint getting on it.) I welded a old brake drum to the right size piece pipe. I turned it by hand from the back side of the brake drum. For being low tech I thought the wheels turned out well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Hello Don, I thought about doing this job manually but decided I wanted a quicker paint job so I am going to mechanize, for once! Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I would think you would want a slow turn on the rim. Let us know what speed you end up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 Yes, I do agree, slow and steady. Previously, I suggested 2-3 rpm. That should be close. If that little high torque adjustable speed motor that is capable of speeds from 0 to 27 should be the cats kisser. We will see. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 21 hours ago, alsfarms said: Steve thanks for the comment on powder coating. I have experience with powder coating on a set of 24" Houk wire wheels. They are robust and very nice in appearance. These wheels were nice to start with and not real pitted. I have two sets of wire wheels that need to be painted as they are going to need plenty of hand work to smooth out surface pits to allow for a nice looking wheel when done. This means I will be painting them. On another subject, I see that you and your Dad are Franklin guy's. Is it possible that either of you may have a set of mid 20's Franklin cast windshield visor brackets? Al I do not have the parts you need. The Franklin Club is a very active group, and I'm sure somebody does. Also, the club has all of Franklin's engineering drawings available to members online. If you know the exact year and body style, that would help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kelso Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I use an old ironing machine, attached to the drive roller is bar stock with various holes. This way the hubs can be installed and tightened on wood wheels and no issues after painting and installing them. Same principle with wire wheels. I've using the same machine for many years 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 JAK....is your wheel painting gizmo a one wheel at a time operation? How about posting a picture of what you use? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kelso Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Al, as you can see it has a lot of miles on it the advantage is you can paint the wheel, really lay on the paint, and leave it, it basically turns into a big run until it dries. Yes I can only do one at a time, usually paint them in the morning then just spin all day to set up. Have done everything from 29" wood to Buffalo wire wheels, its set up now to do clear coat on a Telecaster I just built. I know it looks messy, the cleaning lady hasn't been in lately! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 What I see is home brew engineering at its best. What rpm does this gizmo run at? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I just made a simple platforms using a cut up 2 X 10 and 2 x 6 - then made a simple wooden mount for the wheel and drilled a hole through it for a 1/2 steel rod. It does not need to be motorized as you can just take your finger and spin it from the rim as no one will ever see your finger prints. Here is the secret - paint the back sides of everything first, do any needed correction work, and then paint the front side. Sidenote: There is a lovey Lagonda low chassis touring here in town and stopped by the owner's house one day via spotting him in driveway brush painting the wire wheels (and have to say he did a bang-up job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I too would love to see what you come up with. I have some aluminum wheels I would like to restore myself. But they need spun to polish. Getting them bolted to a shaft is simple enough but how to spin them safely is another concern. I havent delved into it too heavy yet, but the time is coming up that it will need to be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) I recently posted my rotisserie gizmo on another site. I can paint 2 wheels at once using a BBQ rotisserie motor I "borrowed" from the neighbor's BBQ one night while they were sleeping. I have painted 7.50 x 17 Buffalos and some heavy wood spoke 3/4 ton truck wheels for 35 x 5 tires. I also painted 15 & 16 " solid wheels. This motor turns at the perfect speed & has plenty of torque to turn 2 heavy wheels at a time. I made a wood bench similar to JAK's out of scrap 2x4 & 1x lumber but I don't have room to store the bench so its in pieces. Photos are of the gizmo knocked down. The drive gear of the motor has a square through hole so I used a piece of square stock to fit the square. The sq rod fit a half inch threaded union so I used 1/2 " Threaded rod and blocks of wood for pillow blocks. I drilled a couple of holes thru the unions & sq rod to secure them with 6-32 screws. The threaded rods are just screwed into the unions and locked with jam nuts. 1/2" rod doesn't support the wheels out very far from the pillow blocks but I put the motor/shafts at the edge of the bench so about 3/4 of the wheel is exposed and that is more than enough to get full coverage while it turns. Not shown are the hubs to hold the wheels. I cut a pair wood discs for each wheel out of 1x wood about 1/4" larger dia. than the hub and turned them cone shape so they will squeeze about halfway inside using backing nuts on the rods. This is the only way to paint wheels. Edited January 7, 2023 by jdome (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) Jdome..... Your idea for mounting the wheel to be painted to the rotating shaft is very similar to what I have come up with. I want my gizmo to be very stable as I can see in the future pin stripping on several sets of disc wheels so want to control the rotation of the wheel in a very concentric and no wobble way. I am going to use 1" 1018, for the rotating axles, so I will have minimal flex and then thread the axle ends to allow for nice stable mounting of the wheel adapters. I have some good angle iron that I will use to build this gizmo from. Al Edited January 7, 2023 by alsfarms Clarity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I should also add that you need to weight down the opposite end of the bench with cement blocks so it won't tip over. I could make better wheel adapters for mine but it doesn't really turn fast enough as is to create much of a wobble. It is good enough, if I can use that term, for painting and running for hours for multiple coats. I could also machine better unions to couple 1" rod to the 5/16 square rod but it hasn't been a problem. I dont think you want a powered rotisserie for striping. You only need 1 rotation and may need to stop to reload the brush. I stripe wheels with a Bugler. I made a stand to hold the bugler with a platform on the floor. and jack up the car one wheel at a time. I slide the bugler against the wheel with one hand and turn the wheel with the other hand and it rotates back to the starting point. You might think about making a separate fixture for striping. Maybe just a spindle with adapters appropriate for the wheel so you can rotate by hand off the car. Just my 2-cents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Ranard Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Al, I did something similar last year to paint my new wood wheels from Stutzman with a HVLP gun. I used 5/8 inch diameter 1045 bar and turned 8 inches of threads on one end of each bar for the hub. I cut the shafts to length, milled a flat and used a coupling to mount to the motor on the other end. Since I wanted to leave the bearing races in the hubs, I purchased rubber stoppers that were the appropriate diameter to fit in the race from each side. After punching holes in the stoppers, I used washers and a 7/16 nut on each side of the hub so I could squeeze the stoppers to hold the wheel on the shaft. This worked well and the wheel did not spin on the shaft. I found a double shafted, high torque motor on Amazon so I could use one motor for 2 wheels. I wanted to use 12V so I wouldn’t have as much risk of a spark when painting. I was unsure what speed would work and guessed at 5 RPM which was OK but I would have preferred it be a little slower. They had various speeds available and now I would use the 3 RPM if I was buying them again. The motor has a gearbox and they gave specs for the torque which I calculated would work for my weight of wheels. The motor I used from Amazon was: “uxcell Double Shaft Worm Gear Motor DC 12V 5RPM High Torque Speed Reduction Motor with Metal Gearbox”. I used pillow blocks to support the shafts on a wood frame which was mounted to my work stands. I found it was a fun project to build and I am planning to use them again when I have Stutzman make another set of wheels for my other car. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Nice setup! Any pics of the wheels all done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 For small hub wheels I really like your rubber stopper idea. My #6 Buffalo wheels are to big for that to work. I will make some tapered two piece hub adapters for those wheels. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 WES - Have you had recent contact with Stutzman ? I recently read on this site or some other site I frequent that someone was having problems contacting him ? I use Stutzman because I'm about 1 hr. from him in Ohio but also because his work is as good as anyone else and usually takes 6 weeks instead of 6 months plus. I have 2 sets of wheels I need done once I get the rims ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Al - with your variable speed motor you may be able to make up 2 axles like WES and paint 4 wheels at a time. Put an axle at each end of the bench with your motor in the middle and belt/chain drive both axles with one motor. Use 2 small sprockets on the motor and large sprockets on the axles and that will increase the torque. 1:4 ratio will quadruple the motor's torque. The motor will have to turn at a higher rpm than direct drive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Ranard Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I have not contacted Noah Stutzman since Feb 2021. Although I would not say he is hard to contact, he didn't answer the phone. I always left a message and he returned my call. Noah gave me a tour of his shop when I picked up my wheels and I am very impressed with his work. He also makes wood steering wheels and the examples he had looked very nice. I would not hesitate to have him make my wheels. I attached a photo of one of the finished wheels. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Some impressive ideas. Wes, your wheels look great. I can’t help but thinking, though, that rather than an electric motor, one could hook it up to a stationary bicycle, and put the wife and kids to work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avantey Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 A friend built a unit similar to Wes Renard's where he used a right angle gear reduction drive to get 2 rpm. With the motor to the side and a thru shaft he can paint or pinstripe two wheels at once. Mounted on a board he just clamps it to a pair of sawhorses or a workmate for portability. I've used it a couple of times and works great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Like the wheels too Wes, I like the deep maroon. Is that a modern car model/year color or a custom mix? Care to share the code? What are you restoring? At first glance I thought the spokes look like oval Cadillac spokes but the hub doesn't look Cadillac. I had Stutzman make me 2 steering wheels from original samples, one round rim and one oval. Perfect reproductions. I am also into the wood rim bicycles of the 1870-1910 era. They have metal frames, wood rims with wire spokes, wood fenders, chain guards & handle grips. Some of that era have wood handle bars too. Stutzman makes all those wood bicycle parts as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 Jdome, Wes and others, That is my plan to build two axles, one variable speed drive motor and run it with belts. Yes, I do want this wide enough on the axles that I have room to get behind with my spray gun and do the job. This chat to me is some of what we need to do to keep the hobby alive especially when we are discussing gizmo engineering that allows us to get very good results beyond just hiring someone else to do the work that we can do ourselves, if we just prepare ourselves. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Ranard Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I used PPG 71791 Regency Red which is a 1976 Jaguar color. It is on a 1909 Mason and the color is the closest match to the original color "Red Wine". I had a rear wheel with some loose spokes and decided it was time to replace the wheels before something catastrophic happened. I have seen too many pictures of cars after the spokes have broken and I didn't want to risk of damaging the car or causing personal injury. The car was painted a bright red in the 1950s and I made the decision to paint the wheels the original color. I am glad I did since we really like the new color too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 5 hours ago, jdome said: WES - Have you had recent contact with Stutzman ? I recently read on this site or some other site I frequent that someone was having problems contacting him ? I use Stutzman because I'm about 1 hr. from him in Ohio but also because his work is as good as anyone else and usually takes 6 weeks instead of 6 months plus. I have 2 sets of wheels I need done once I get the rims ready. I just had the wheels of my '13 Ford done by Stutzman. It was about a 5 week turnaround. They are true perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, ericmac said: I just had the wheels of my '13 Ford done by Stutzman. It was about a 5 week turnaround. They are true perfection. that is good to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 19 hours ago, ericmac said: I just had the wheels of my '13 Ford done by Stutzman. It was about a 5 week turnaround. They are true perfection. Agree. They have done four sets of wheels for me, most recently my '08 Buick and '12 Model T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) I need a heavier set of 27", twelve spoke wheels wheels built. Is Stutzman a good source? Al Edited January 9, 2023 by alsfarms Clarity (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dobbin Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) On 1/7/2023 at 7:40 PM, Wes Ranard said: I have not contacted Noah Stutzman since Feb 2021. Although I would not say he is hard to contact, he didn't answer the phone. I always left a message and he returned my call. Noah gave me a tour of his shop when I picked up my wheels and I am very impressed with his work. He also makes wood steering wheels and the examples he had looked very nice. I would not hesitate to have him make my wheels. I attached a photo of one of the finished wheels. Your picture reminded me of painting my 1915 Model T in 1981 in my shop. When we sold the place n 2012 there was still red paint on everthing in the loft and all the window screens. I built a wheel paint stand form a wagon axle and a small lawn mower wheel. Set the wheel on the lawn mower tire horizontaally and painted it then flipped it over to finiish paint the other side. The pressure of the paint gun spun the wheels slowly.not do th P.S. I just remembered, that was 1981 and i didn't have a HVLP gun yet. I guess it would not do that today with a HVLP gun, due to the Low Pressure. Edited January 12, 2023 by Paul Dobbin re-position text & explain HVLP (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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