ryan95 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 About a year ago I started a post in the general discussion on the '23 Moon 6-40 I am restoring for a neighbor. It looks like this is the better place to post, so I'll start over again here. I also want to try and give more updates, even on the small projects. I am nearing the completion of the woodwork and will be starting on sheet metal soon. All of the wood pieces you are seeing, other than some of the better door pieces, I made over the past two years based on the original pieces that had various problems such as rot, bug damage, and wear. 15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Cool project, I'm in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Fantastic work and a great project! Can't wait to see more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 What wood did you use, ash or oak? Looks good. Keep up the good work. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 9, 2022 Author Share Posted March 9, 2022 Mike, it's all ash other than the sills, floorboards, and firewall, which are white oak. The original pieces where I used the ash look to be maple based on the grain. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 You are doing nice woodwork. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 17, 2022 Author Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) I have a little bit to do an update on. I have had a high failure to success ratio with the recent projects. The main project right now is getting the doors to all work and close correctly. The tasks for that include removing rust from door hardware, repairing the hardware, making rubber bumpers, making the wood strips that go in the jambs for mounting the latch parts and bumpers, and assembling it all. It takes some time and precision to get the parts all screwed in correctly so that it works how it should. Once a wood screw goes in, you're committed to it being there. Now both driver side doors are functioning well. Some of the pictures are sideways. I will try to fix them from my computer. Here are the bumpers I made with the bandsaw. These are the metal strips that get attached to the door frame for the skin to get crimped to. They are cleaned up and oiled. Here is the driver door jamb showing all of the parts that needed mounted. This angle shows looking up the side of the car. The doors stick proud of the body and the skins overlap the body rather than having them butted up to each other flush like newer cars. I set the doors so that they stick out 3/16. This is a separate little project I have been working on. Today I cut a new piece of glass for the face since the old one was scratched up all over. I looked into and contacted many glass companies, but there were reasons why all of them couldn't do it or it was going to cost way too much. I purchased a sheet of 5/32 low iron glass, which is hard to find, I bought some glass cutting and drilling supplies off Amazon, and today with my limited skills I cut, drilled, and sanded it to the right shape. Thankfully none of the edges are visible when it is all together. Edited March 17, 2022 by ryan95 (see edit history) 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg H. Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Very nice work! If you don’t mind me asking, what type of material did you use to make the door bumpers? I need to make similar and I’m having a hard time deciding on a good match to the original. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 I bought a 6x6x1 jewelers rubber block off eBay or Amazon. It wasn't too expensive and feels like a good density in my opinion. I made them oversized so that I could remove material for adjustments. I'm glad to share any details. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg H. Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, ryan95 said: I bought a 6x6x1 jewelers rubber block off eBay or Amazon. It wasn't too expensive and feels like a good density in my opinion. I made them oversized so that I could remove material for adjustments. I'm glad to share any details. Thanks for the info Ryan, I just placed an order. Good luck with your project. Greg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 Aside from more door work, I did some work on the distributor today. Originally the car had a pot metal Delco unit, but very few have survived. The solution we chose was to use a late 20's Delco Remy unit. They are visually very similar other than a few details. The original Delco distributors had no outside machine work since the ears that hold the clips were part of the casting. They also used only brown bakelite caps. To imitate this I sanded the machining marks off of the body and found an early style bakelite cap. Most of the Delco Remy ones are black plastic. I also removed the tag and will relocate it to the inside. To anyone who doesn't know, Delco and Remy were two different companies until they merged sometime around 1926. That is why I wanted to hide the tag. The original one would have just said Delco. Once it is painted, it should look close to original other than not having the cast clip ears. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartsAncient Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 I would also like to compliment your work. It looks great! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Yes Ryan, these are a trial at best to retrofit one for the die cast ones. Luckily the later cast iron ones can be a drop-in replacement for my 1925 Buick. Rebuilt iron unit on the left, cobbled up, warped die cast unit on the right. Someone turned a collar to have the unit fit in the starter generator end casting. No consideration as to how to get any grease to the bearings. Then used copper crush gaskets as spacers for the drive gear. When the engine was running, I could shut it off by putting a bit of pressure on the side of the distributer case. About .030 bearing play! Redone distributer for my 1925 Buick Standard. My 1925 Master has a Delco Remey similar to what you have for a retrofit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 Looks like they did what they had to do to get it going or did all they knew how to do. You did a nice job on yours. I like that the later style Buick distributors look very similar to the early ones with the cap locating pins that stick out to the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 Here's a small update for now. I wanted to replace the original dowel pins on each joint in the doors. It's all apart, so now is the time to do anything that might be helpful to the car. When I took the pins out, they all had a curve in them in the direction that the joint was pulling. I decided to make my own dowels so that I could make them out of ash, and fine tune the diameter for a snug fit. I made some 5/16 square strips and ran them through my dowel cutter to get dowels just over 1/4. It did tighten up the doors. Only three doors are pictured because the fourth door was factory assembled with screwed joints instead. My guess is that in the factory the bin of dowel rods went empty and they used what they had to keep the assembly moving. I also wanted to show some of the details of how the sheet metal gets tucked in where the door pillars meet the sills. I cut the pockets out today and made the filler blocks. Basically the metal will be clamped to the wood with a half inch extra all around. That gets hammer formed over the edge and nailed in. To allow this to happen the whole way down the body, these pockets are necessary so that the hammer and metal have room to be formed. The block then goes in and is nailed in place. I hope that makes sense. Maybe when the real metal goes on it will be more obvious. I did get more things partially done. I'll make another post when those items are done and worth showing. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 29, 2022 Author Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) It's time for an update. Other than a few exceptions, the wood parts are done. They have been painted, oiled, drilled screwed, glued, and final assembled. Since the last update, I worked on finishing up the seat wood. I also mounted the driver side door skin flange panels. They stick out around the perimeter for the door skins to be hemmed around. Originally they were nailed on with screw nails. I was able to extract probably 80 or 90 of the hundred or so when I disassembled the doors. I reattached them with #6 wood screws using the original holes for alignment and mounting where I could. Anywhere that the nails were broken off or in a bad location, new holes were drilled nearby. For those who know 20s cars, is this the common way that doors were done? It's a clever way I think of keeping the nails concealed. Tomorrow I hope to try making door skins. Edited March 29, 2022 by ryan95 (see edit history) 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Nice work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 The door skins are going slow so far. My first attempt turned into a practice piece. The second one is going better. I am developing a good process to make them go well. So far the big hurdles were making the radius bend and curving the upper flange where your arm would rest. For the radius I made a piece of wood that matched it and clamped both it and the skin in my brake. That part went well and didn't look bent by hand. For the upper flange I had to use my shrinker to get it to curve enough to fit the door curvature. This made the top wavy with tool marks. My solution was to make a planishing hammer. I could have bought one, but I wanted it today and would rather spend money on parts than tools, so I made one quick and dirty. I had enough scraps of ash that weren't car grade, so it made up a quick c frame and attached my air hammer and an anvil. For control I have a wedge under the trigger and a valve rigged up for my foot. Surprisingly it worked very well without making many adjustments. I haven't seen a wooden one on the Internet yet. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 It ended up being a productive day. I completed wrapping the driver door. Other than almost botching things at the end when I drilled a hole in the wrong spot, it went well, difficult, but well. Thankfully the hole welded nicely and was able to be blended back in. Now I should be able to do the other three doors no problem. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 1, 2022 Author Share Posted April 1, 2022 (edited) Update, Yesterday I started on the rear driver door, messed up the metal, and had to make a run to my metal dealer for more 20 gauge. I had a heck of a time tracking any down last fall. Thankfully this place has a ton of it since they stocked up for a big customer that used to buy a bunch. Has anyone else ran into this with sheet metal? Anyways, I bought 3 sheets. That should be enough to finish the car if I don't make many more big mistakes. I'm starting to get my sheet metal techniques figured out. This morning I finished skinning the rear door and the driver side mid section all but the flange where the hinges mount. I forgot that the metal blocks them in from further removal, so I need to get them painted. That will be one of my next projects, so that it doesn't hold me up. Here are some more progress pictures. Edited April 1, 2022 by ryan95 (see edit history) 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 8, 2022 Author Share Posted April 8, 2022 Update, all of the doors are wrapped and both mid section panels are done. Some of the gaps could be a little better, but overall it's looking in good shape. Today I started making the hammer form for the cowl vent, made the template for cutting out the cowl, and gave Bob a tour of how his car is coming along. He was pleased with the progress. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Very nice metal work. Looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 8, 2022 Author Share Posted April 8, 2022 Thank you coyote and others, I hope that this is a bit different from other restoration threads. I know that this kind of work has been done many times by others, but I have not seen very much of this kind of metal work online. Anything newer than the 20's is too different to be comparable. I am trying to keep my updates detailed without being too repetitive. If anyone ever has a question of what I did or wants to see more detail, please let me know. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 1 hour ago, ryan95 said: Thank you coyote and others, I hope that this is a bit different from other restoration threads. I know that this kind of work has been done many times by others, but I have not seen very much of this kind of metal work online. Anything newer than the 20's is too different to be comparable. I am trying to keep my updates detailed without being too repetitive. If anyone ever has a question of what I did or wants to see more detail, please let me know. I am really enjoying this thread and no its not repetitive at all. This is the kind of work that isn't usually shown. I love it! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartsAncient Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Hello, I have just reviewed your work and will continue to check your progress. I think that you are doing a great job! I appreciated your skill and determination. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 8, 2022 Author Share Posted April 8, 2022 Parts Ancient, I have been following along with your progress as well. The engine work you are doing has made me want to dive into the repair work on ours, but I don't want to start on too many things at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 9, 2022 Author Share Posted April 9, 2022 I finished making the cowl vent hammer form earlier. It is made of an upper and a lower piece that sandwich the metal. The form needed to be curved since the cowl is arched. my solution was to laminate three layers of quarter inch plywood together so that I could clamp it in a curve while the glue set up. After shaping the openings I was able to give it a try. I made two test panels. What I learned on the first one was that metal hammers leave too many marks. I tried out a plastic teardrop hammer on the second one and it went much better. The small end was just right for the corners and the big end did a nice job on the flats. I also learned not to get carried away with getting the metal hammered up tight to the form or the piece becomes stuck and won't come out. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieBuick Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Looking forward to your construction of the rear tub section ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 I'm a little intimidated by the rear, but I'll report lots of detail on it. I may try reusing some of the panels that make it up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) Hello everyone, it's been a while since I updated. It took a second attempt to get the cowl right. At least I'll be able to use the first one to make some of the smaller parts from. On the first, I tried welding in the windshield stanchion sockets. That was a big mistake. The heat made the panel go crazy wavy. On the second try I used three small tacks and used body solder to hold it together like the original. This went much better. Soldering has been another skill that I had to learn for this project. Many of the seams on the car rely on the solder to hold them together, so body filler isn't an option. I will have to use a little filler here and there later on to get things flat, but I'm not using it anywhere that is structural. The body lines were made using my old Niagara brake, and the cowl vent flange was made using the hammer form I made in the last post. Other than some planishing, hammering over the edges, nailing it, and soldering the seam above the dash, it's mostly done. It's going to take some time to get that done, so here you go in the meantime. Edited April 20, 2022 by ryan95 (see edit history) 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Looking great! I'm about to learn soldering myself, if my results are half as good as yours I'll be happy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 Thanks, It's not too hard once you get the hang of it. My biggest hurdle was keeping the panel warm enough for the lead to flow where I wanted to push it. Initially I was warming the lead I wanted to move and wondering why it wouldn't spread. Now I also warm the area that I want it to go. I also tried different torches. A MAPP gas blowtorch doesn't seem to pinpoint heat where I want it very well. I also tried an acetylene only, soldering tip that came with my Henrob torch. That was better, but I still wasn't happy. My best results have been with the recular welding tip on my torch. I get it to a neutral flame and keep it 8 inches or so back from the panel. I keep it just close enough to melt the lead after a few seconds and keep the heat moving. Also be sure to neutralize the flux after tinning the panel. Scrubbing it with a baking soda and water solution seems to be the best option for that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 Also, do as much of the shaping as you can with files. I used all round ones of various sizes. This makes filings rather than dust so that you don't get lead poisoning. Sanding is saved only for the very end to remove the file marks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Ryan looking good. Mine just ate its starter with a piece of metal I can't identify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 34 minutes ago, jan arnett (2) said: Ryan looking good. Mine just ate its starter with a piece of metal I can't identify. I saw the pictures in your email. It certainly is an odd piece. I'm looking forward to hearing your conclusion on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durant Mike Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Car is looking great and I'm really impressed with your wood and steel work. It's going to look great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 22 hours ago, ryan95 said: Also, do as much of the shaping as you can with files. I used all round ones of various sizes. This makes filings rather than dust so that you don't get lead poisoning. Sanding is saved only for the very end to remove the file marks. I hope you are wearing a very good mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Amazing workmanship, thanks for sharing in such detail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 Thanks guys, I'll keep posting anything you all find interesting. I do appreciate the compliments. I suffer from what I call the "maker's curse." To everyone else something I make might look great, but I know where every single flaw or imperfection is. The kind words help me get over it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 22, 2022 Author Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) So I made a mistake today fixing a previous mistake. At some point someone overtorqued the coolant neck onto the head and cracked the flange near three of the six mounting holes. Last year when disassembling the engine externals, the outer part of one of the tabs fell off then I removed the head nuts. It looked like that was the only crack. I grooved the crack, preheated it, brazed it, and let it cool. I didn't spend enough time warming or cooling it, so a second crack appeared an inch away. That was my fault for being too hasty. Today I needed a smaller project, so I decided to fix it. This time I gave it plenty of time in our propane grill to slowly heat up and to cool it. 600 degrees was no problem for the grill. I ramped the temp up over a half hour and ramped it down slowly when done also. When I got to 300 degrees I shut the grill off and let it sit for another half hour. This time things went much better. The grill also made the paint very easy to remove. After cleaning up my repair, I was pleased with it and saw no other cracks. I proceeded to removing the rest of the flaky paint and found that the two front mounting holes were cracked as well. I am certain that these cracks are old ones since they are no where near the spot I repaired. They are also at the mounting holes like the first crack was. I am confident that this time I truely found all the cracks. With a straight edge on the bottom, the cracked tabs are all warped in the direction they were overtorqued. The remaining three have no visible cracks and show no warping. This means that now I have to do the job over again to fix the remaining cracks. I'll save that for another day when I can fit the project in. Fortunately It didn't take much of my time up. For most of the repair job I could do other things while the piece was in the grill. Edited April 22, 2022 by ryan95 (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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