Willoughby

[Walt G]

This advertisement by the Willoughby Company of Utica, NY appeared in 1914 in a Boston newspaper. It is one of many many items that was collected by that company in file folders to have as reference to where they placed their advertisements to attract customers . I have a good portion of the Willoughby Company archives ( no lists of who owned or ordered or bought what - sorry) and shows their work from the horse drawn wagon era until they ceased to exist in 1937. These include extensive photo albums kept by company President Francis Willoughby and signed in ink as his property. Yes they did some commercial work on truck chassis for local Utica,NY based business besides their creations on car chassis. As you can see they also did repair and repaint work as well. All the material I have was purchased many years ago at an antique show on Rt. 20 in the Madison/Bouckville area that is located just south of where Willoughby was located.

I am working on a history of that company from start to finish which I hope will appear in in print in the Spring of next year.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[edinmass]

A 1934 Lincoln KB Willoughby Enclosed Drive Limousine has always been one of my favorite cars........

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

Looking forward to your history of Willoughby. I have always like those bodies very much. Here is one of my favorites.

[Walt G]

1 minute ago, edinmass said:

A 1934 Lincoln KB Willoughby Enclosed Drive Limousine has always been one of my favorite cars........

Ed, my friend, you can't believe some of the bodies they designed and  built - and the enclosed body style was their specialty. Lincoln was a favorite chassis, and apparently Edsel Ford liked their efforts enough  to supply the Lincoln chassis on such a regular basis. The interiors too were absolutely sensational.

[edinmass]

Walt......I agree. I always thought Inhad good taste in Whiskey, Women, and Willoughby’s!

[edinmass]

[1937hd45]

One of the few cars I agreed to drive when Bob Stark asked me, the ex Alex Stine 1929 Lincoln Willoughby. Unrestored, it was sent back to have a 1928 nose installed because Mrs. Stine preferred the look. Bob Stark gifted it to the CCCA Museum. 

[Walt G]

Bob

I recall that Lincoln sedan with great fondness. It exemplified what an unrestored original car would be to me. I recall seeing it most often at the pre WWII era Fairfiled County region HCCA meet in September.  We both used to attend that - heck it was in your back yard!

Nice it is preserved but am sad it is so far away now in Michigan and on static display, cars like that and all cars need to be used /driven so people can appreciate them in motion.

Walt

[wayne sheldon]

I am so looking forward to this thread running for pages and pages! The Classic era custom body history has always been a weakness for me, both as something I really like, and as something I have little information about. Willoughby bodied Classics always seem to have some special something to their look and lines.

 

Thank you for this!

Edited December 19, 2021 by wayne sheldon
Computer acted out, posted before I was done? (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Walt,

 

Who copied who?   Delage first?

 

[ericmac]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

Bob

I recall that Lincoln sedan with great fondness. It exemplified what an unrestored original car would be to me. I recall seeing it most often at the pre WWII era Fairfiled County region HCCA meet in September.  We both used to attend that - heck it was in your back yard!

Nice it is preserved but am sad it is so far away now in Michigan and on static display, cars like that and all cars need to be used /driven so people can appreciate them in motion.

Walt

Personally,  I think it is in exactly the right place...20 miles from my front door! That car has always been among my favorites in the collection. 

[edinmass]

Bob Stark was a great American, and a fascinating human being. I got to know him as a very young man, and he was generous enough to let me drive his cars. He worked into his 90s. Sharp as a tack. Never had a negative word and always had a smile on his face. I miss my old friend. Someday I hope to get up to the museum and get that Lincoln running again.  

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

One of the few cars I agreed to drive when Bob Stark asked me, the ex Alex Stine 1929 Lincoln Willoughby. Unrestored, it was sent back to have a 1928 nose installed because Mrs. Stine preferred the look. Bob Stark gifted it to the CCCA Museum. 

Not sure why, but the photo I took of it shows it has more blue in it.

 

Craig

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, ericmac said:

Personally,  I think it is in exactly the right place...20 miles from my front door! That car has always been among my favorites in the collection. 

I just remembered the yellowed windshield, was that some early safety glass gone bad or early window tinting? 

[edinmass]

Bad safety glass……..

[Walt G]

Ed I recall Bob Stark just as you describe him. A real gentleman and total enthusiast , patient to answer questions and I think really liked to see younger people ( perhaps you and me?)who were obsessed with the same era of cars he was . Lee Davenport was another one who had cars (Locomobile) that like that model L Lincoln just made such an impression on me.

[Walt G]

15 hours ago, alsancle said:

Walt,

 

Who copied who?   Delage first?

A.J. , both cars appearing at the same time , same year etc. influence was at the salons in Europe that saw American car companies/coach builders who were all still reeling from the Great Depression 7 years earlier to want to offer customers anything they could. Most were "liberal" in their borrowing certain styling aspects to see if it would light a fire of enthusiasm and thus result in some sales. The salons and auto shows ( American salons for custom coach work were gone by early 1932) were all at the end or very beginning of the year when new chassis /models/series appeared. Rampant "observations" by auto companies from both sides of the pod was going on. G.M. sent a photographer to cover the European salons and take photos that were then brought back to G.M. and prints made and discussed by in house design staffs. The G.M. negatives got prints made in the early 1950s after being found in the files at G.M. and before they were destroyed the prints wound up in the hands of a fellow who scratch built model cars in detail in that era. He had a connection with a friend that worked at G.M. I have had for many decades a good portion of those prints of cars at the salons, I bought them from that scratch built model maker 40+ years ago.

[edinmass]

Walt, Lee and Anne Davenport were good friends. As the youngest guy at the CCCA events, and he as usually the elder.......I became close to them. I would carry their bags, keep an eye on their car, and just generally keep close to them on the tours. Lee was similar to Bob Stark........both American hero’s from WWII, and they never said a word about their accomplishments. Lee Davenport actually changed the world, and no one knows who he is, or what he did. He saved hundreds of thousands of American lives in the war.

[Frank DuVal]

Sorry to go off topic, but when I hear Willoughby all I can think of is the Twilight Zone episode "A Stop At Willoughby". Never knew of the car.

[8E45E]

18 hours ago, alsancle said:

Walt,

 

Who copied who?   Delage first?

 

More photos of the Lincoln here: 

 

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

One certainly has to give Willoughby credit for being versatile, to wit: 

[alsancle]

I think the styles got a little better for Willoughby towards the end as opposed to the late 20s, early 30s.   What is odd is that I can think of a bunch of bodies on 29/30 cars,  and a few more on the late 30s Lincolns and nothing in between.    What were they up to between 1932-1936?

[58L-Y8]

3 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I think the styles got a little better for Willoughby towards the end as opposed to the late 20s, early 30s.   What is odd is that I can think of a bunch of bodies on 29/30 cars,  and a few more on the late 30s Lincolns and nothing in between.    What were they up to between 1932-1936?

AJ:

Between 1932-1936, it appears as if Willoughby was living off the patronage of Edsel Ford, supplying Lincoln K limousines and broughams.  Miniscule numbers of bodies annually: 1932: 68; 1933: 32; 1934: 77; 1935: 45; 1936: 73; 1937: 76; 1938: 60; 1939: 7.   The last good year was 1929: 383; 1930: 249; 1931: 166.   The numbers are from Lincoln and Continental Classic Motorcars, The Early Years by Marvin Arnold.  Other than a few full-custom one-off bodies for other makes or individuals, Lincoln was their primary and largely only customer.   From the days of series body production runs for a variety of makes in the 19-teens and '20's, the Utica shop must have been one quiet place in the 1930's.  It's difficult to imagine how they kept going on such small production.  Walt G will have prospective on this.

Steve

[Walt G]

Consider the time - the Depression didn't start to affect most businesses until a year after it happened so that is the end of 1930 - people expected it would recover after a low spot, same as the financial nose dive in the early 1920s right after WWI ended. It takes time to produce a custom body, even if it is in quantity ( like a run of 7 formal sedans at one time) chassis were not sitting and waiting at the door, they had to be shipped to Utica, NY ( by train not truck) . We are used to having things instantly - NOW, suppliers then had to make things for the custom coach builders  -  springs made to order after being given size dimensions , castings created for cowl/windshield areas, it was a much slower pace that got even slower with the lack of orders due to the Depression.

Think of how there is a shortage of items now due to the pandemic , apply that to production due to lack of $ in the 1930s .

More information to come but I need to have this for the story I am currently writing on the history of the company as mentioned earlier here on the forums.

 

Walt

[BucketofBolts]

There was an unrestored 2 door sport hardtop Willoughby for sale about 9 to 10 years ago at a time when BITCOIN was just $1. A pretty complete car and rare as rare could be. Not sure what happened to that vehicle. 

[Larry Schramm]

On 12/19/2021 at 8:04 PM, edinmass said:

Bob Stark was a great American, and a fascinating human being. I got to know him as a very young man, and he was generous enough to let me drive his cars. He worked into his 90s. Sharp as a tack. Never had a negative word and always had a smile on his face. I miss my old friend. Someday I hope to get up to the museum and get that Lincoln running again.  

 

Let me know when you get there.  I would like to come over and help.

[8E45E]

Some on the end of Willoughby here in this article on a 1939 Lincoln:

 

 

[marcapra]

Yes, Willoughby, where  life was more relaxed, everybody liked each other, chocolate malts were just a nickel, and my childhood home was just like it was, but my parents didn't recognize me anymore!  It's me Harold, your son!  I'm your son I tell you!  Don't you see!  I'm me, just grown up!

 

 

[Walt G]

I am hard at wok writing about the WIlloughby Co. of Utica, NY and it is snowing here on long island, so to honor that company and its relationship to SNOW here you go:

 

 

[wayne sheldon]

Neat stuff! 

Thank you Walt G.

[Den41Buick]

I can't wait to read the book on the Willoughby Company.

[Walt G]

Thanks Gents, lots of weird stuff here that I have collected over the decades, , and glad to share in the stories I pen.

Willoughby kept amazing files /folders/photo albums on their work as seen here by the newspaper clippings.  They did commercial vehicle bodies too beyond all the cars.

The whole story will most likely be in two parts ( so much to tell and images to see) in Crankshaft magazine. It puts an interesting perspective/view on how many car manufacturers ordered runs of particular bodies as they wanted to focus on the manufacture of engine, chassis fenders not have a whole factory or department to staff, equip etc to then get into coachwork as well.

Heck Chrysler Corp. solved a lot of that issue /need by buying the Budd Body Co. of Philadelphia.  I am sure Walter Chrysler was in on the negotiation of that addition himself as he lived only a few hours away from Philadelphia NE on long island ( his estate still exists mostly intact and is the Merchant Marine Academy about 12 miles north of where I live.)

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

Thanks Gents, lots of weird stuff here that I have collected over the decades, , and glad to share in the stories I pen.

Willoughby kept amazing files /folders/photo albums on their work as seen here by the newspaper clippings.  They did commercial vehicle bodies too beyond all the cars.

The whole story will most likely be in two parts ( so much to tell and images to see) in Crankshaft magazine. It puts an interesting perspective/view on how many car manufacturers ordered runs of particular bodies as they wanted to focus on the manufacture of engine, chassis fenders not have a whole factory or department to staff, equip etc to then get into coachwork as well.

Heck Chrysler Corp. solved a lot of that issue /need by buying the Budd Body Co. of Philadelphia.  I am sure Walter Chrysler was in on the negotiation of that addition himself as he lived only a few hours away from Philadelphia NE on long island ( his estate still exists mostly intact and is the Merchant Marine Academy about 12 miles north of where I live.)

Walt:

I didn't know Chrysler Corporation bought the Edward G. Budd Body Co, of Philadelphia in the pre-war years!  Was it kept as a separate corporate entity?   Studebaker bought a major share of their stampings from Budd as did Ford both before and after WWII.

Steve

[Walt G]

Steve

Got that one wrong, not knowing what I was thinking meant to type Briggs.

Walt

Edited February 14, 2022 by Walt G (see edit history)

[8E45E]

I believe Budd is owned by the Germans now, but they did have an interesting trans-Atlantic history prior to WW2

Craig