telriv Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 The floats are stuck in the closed position since the car has sat for awhile. IF it's an AFB carb. tap the back of the carb. where the floats reside & this MAY free them up so the floats drop. If you don't know what I'm talking about send a pic. of the carb. & I can identify the spots for you. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 54 minutes ago, telriv said: The floats are stuck in the closed position since the car has sat for awhile. IF it's an AFB carb. tap the back of the carb. where the floats reside & this MAY free them up so the floats drop. If you don't know what I'm talking about send a pic. of the carb. & I can identify the spots for you. Tom T. That’s not a bad idea. It’sa Rochester that I just rebuilt, but I’ll give it a little “how’s your father” to see if it’ll drop the float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 At this point ANYTHING is worth a try. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIVNIK Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 In case you decide to replace the tank, I recently did my '65 & it was a breeze. Tank & sending unit were purchased on eBay from Vans Auto & the hanger straps from Classic Buick. They were practically identical to the originals & everything went on without a hitch. Inside the old tank was contaminated w degraded sealer & the pickup filter was a mess. Could be part of your problem. Or maybe the tank vent is somehow blocked? I probably shouldn't speculate, since smarter minds are on already on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Hooked up an aux gas tank to the fuel pump, unhooked the carb fuel line and directed it into a small container. Turned the engine over with the starter - fuel primed and started throwing some strong pulses into the container. Fuel pump is good - I definitely have blockage from the tank to the fuel pump. The fuel lines under the car look pretty bad so I’m going to bite the bullet and replace the tank, sending unit and supply/return lines. It’ll also give me a good chance to clean up these areas of any surface rust and get a decent protectant on it. Classic mission creep. Edited January 24, 2022 by Brtele (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 On 1/22/2022 at 7:03 PM, Brtele said: The fuel lines under the car look pretty bad If the pump is sucking air due to pinhole(s) somewhere between the pump and tank it won't pull fuel. If you can blow air back to the tank that would indicate it isn't blocked. If blocked, it's likely at the sock in the tank. Could someone have installed another filter somewhere in the suction line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 That tank is vented, but not through the cap. There’s a U shaped hose that goes up and over the filler neck. Have yo checked to make sure that you’re not creating a vacuum in the tank that’s holding back fuel delivery? Take the filler cap off and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, RivNut said: That tank is vented, but not through the cap. There’s a U shaped hose that goes up and over the filler neck. Have yo checked to make sure that you’re not creating a vacuum in the tank that’s holding back fuel delivery? Take the filler cap off and see what happens. Funny you say that - today I was thinking about this and was going to take the cap off and try to see if I can pull gas from the tank with the fuel pump. Thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 4 hours ago, EmTee said: If the pump is sucking air due to pinhole(s) somewhere between the pump and tank it won't pull fuel. If you can blow air back to the tank that would indicate it isn't blocked. If blocked, it's likely at the sock in the tank. Could someone have installed another filter somewhere in the suction line? I’ll inspect the lines but don’t believe there’s another filter on the suction side of the fuel pump. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Brtele said: Funny you say that - today I was thinking about this and was going to take the cap off and try to see if I can pull gas from the tank with the fuel pump. Thanks for the advice. Original fuel tank cap is vented but easy enough to remove and worth a try. Who knows, maybe someone replaced the original with non vented cap? More probably a case of the pickup filter in the tank clogged with fine rust or debris; this could especially be the case if your car sat for an extended period of time without fuel in the tank and you have washed all the interior surface rust and corrosion to the bottom of the tank with a fresh fuel fill up. The fuel starvation usually presents itself after a short period of running time when there is a buildup of debris around the fuel tank filter but if there is enough debris that has gathered around the filter it could be blocked from the get-go. If you are not concerned with the health of the sock filter in the tank, or plan to drop the tank at some point in the future to repace it, blow compressed air back through the fuel supply line to clear the debris away from the sock filter. I you then get fuel supply from the tank that is a sure sign your blockage is the sock filter in the tank. If you do this, make sure you first remove the fuel tank cap. Tom Mooney 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Brandon, One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is the fuel line hose from the tank to the frame. It sure sounds like the system may be sucking air instead of fuel. The hose that comes from the tank comes out & has a small loop in it that then goes to the frame of the car that also has a small loop in it. This is where MANY of the problems are discovered. What happens is that the second loop going to the frame get age crack/dry rot. It won't leak fuel, even with a full tank of fuel, but the crack is just enough to draw air instead of fuel. You've spent countless time & $$$ changing parts & seemingly chasing your tail with no positive results. Before going to the time & $$$ to change the tank & other parts I would check the hose 1st. AND, use the good fuel injection hose & NOT just the regular fuel line hose. Just my thoughts on the subject. Tom T. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 19 hours ago, telriv said: Brandon, One of the things I haven't seen mentioned is the fuel line hose from the tank to the frame. It sure sounds like the system may be sucking air instead of fuel. The hose that comes from the tank comes out & has a small loop in it that then goes to the frame of the car that also has a small loop in it. This is where MANY of the problems are discovered. What happens is that the second loop going to the frame get age crack/dry rot. It won't leak fuel, even with a full tank of fuel, but the crack is just enough to draw air instead of fuel. You've spent countless time & $$$ changing parts & seemingly chasing your tail with no positive results. Before going to the time & $$$ to change the tank & other parts I would check the hose 1st. AND, use the good fuel injection hose & NOT just the regular fuel line hose. Just my thoughts on the subject. Tom T. Thanks Tom, I agree with what you're stating. I'll take a look over the existing lines and replace with FI hoses to see if it remedies the situation. For reference, the FI hoses I've been using to replace existing fuel hoses are the Gates Barricade FI lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Tom gave valuable recommendation on FI hoses and clamps to me as well. I believe FI fuel hoses are SAE30R9. The regular Fuel Lines are SAE 30R7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 I hooked the tank to fuel pump house up to my vacuum pump and pulled a decent amount of fuel through into a container - there wasn’t any debris and was pretty clean fuel. Hooked the line back up to the fuel pump and disconnected the carb fuel line. Diverted the carb line into a container and turned the motor over for about 10 seconds. Fuel dumped into the container at a decent rate. Decided to hook it back up to the carb abs turn the motor over. Got it to fire up after about 5 seconds of cranking. Heck yea. While it was running I went around to the front of the car to check for leaks - nothing under the car, but the carb was flowing gas onto the intake manifold. Quickly shut down the engine. I believe it overfilled the carb, but can’t rule out that the bowl to throttle plate gasket didn’t let a ton of fuel past after being dry. I think the gasket failure is low odds as I just rebuilt the carb a few weeks ago and wasn’t an issue after rebuild. I’ve wiped up the fuel and am waiting for everything to evaporate until I fire it back up to inspect. I’m hoping me hitting/tapping on the float seat area of the primary and secondary locations clears this up, but we’ll see. This Rochester has been frustrating to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Sounds like the float isn’t set so the needle jet is closing the fuel inlet. You’re allowing more fuel into the carburetor than the engine is using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 ...or the float is bad, or there's a piece of crap stuck between the needle and seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) Gave the needle area on the primary and secondary sides a couple of whacks and started it up. Fired right up and sounded great. Let it warm up and it continued to run very good even with a couple heavy throttle blips. Scary part is I can’t guarantee the floats won’t do it again when I’m not looking. I’ve gotta replace these floats or I’m gonna be dealing with a fireball. Edited January 30, 2022 by Brtele (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 When you think that you're out of options, you have one left. Replace the Rochester 4GC with the Carter AFB. No gaskets below the float level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, RivNut said: When you think that you're out of options, you have one left. Replace the Rochester 4GC with the Carter AFB. No gaskets below the float level. I might go that route, but haven't found a good line on Carter AFB's for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Brandon: If you want, I have a Carter 4180s carb. It's a 66 model carb. I could send it to you for the cost of shipping. If it works, you can just send me some cash for what you think its woth. Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, psychostang said: Brandon: If you want, I have a Carter 4180s carb. It's a 66 model carb. I could send it to you for the cost of shipping. If it works, you can just send me some cash for what you think its woth. Thoughts? I might be interested in this option. I did a quick search and the Carter 4180 looks like it was initially installed on a 1966 Skylark 400ci Standard Transmission. Let me do some further research and see if this carb would be a viable donor. Thanks so much for the offer. Edited January 31, 2022 by Brtele (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Brandon, It would be a direct swap over. The 400 IS A 401 ALSO. There is VERY LITTLE that changed between auto & standard trans. Tom T. Edited February 1, 2022 by telriv (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 6 hours ago, Brtele said: I might be interested in this option. I did a quick search and the Carter 4180 looks like it was initially installed on a 1966 Skylark 400ci Standard Transmission. Let me do some further research and see if this carb would be a viable donor. Thanks so much for the offer. As Tom says, the 66 400 is the exact same engine as your 401. It's only a 400 on paper, Buick just called it a 400 to meet the Feds mandate that no intermediate sized car could have an engine over 400 cubic inches. Buick, Olds, Pontiac all had 400s, Chevy stuck with their 396. Check the bore and stroke of a 400 and a 401; they'll be identical. The linkage on the side of the carb looks correct for an ST400 with kickdown and switch pitch. If you can get that carb for the cost of shipping and put a kit (from The Carbking) in it and get it running, you'll be a happy camper. Ed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Let me say that this carb is what came on my 1965 Riviera. It worked perfectly. The only thing I had to do what free up the shut-off piston for the heat style choke. The carb it self had no running issues what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 AND, IF need be I can re-build it. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) In the FWIW category, "stick" carburetors are often leaner than their dogmatic counterparts, as the dogmatic carbs have to have additional fuel to compensate for fluid coupling losses. This was true with 1965 Buick 401 carbs, as the dogmatic carb had 0.035 idle jets, and the stick carb had 0.031 idle jets. However, in 1966, Buick changed to 0.035 idle jets for both; since this is a 1966 carb, should work fine. I only post this as some enthusiasts read one thread, and think it automatically applies to their situation. In this case the stick carb should work fine, but this an exception rather than the rule. When in doubt, ALWAYS go to the original documentation. And Brandon, (opinion) this would be money better spent than the brass floats for the 4-Jet we discussed yesterday. Get the Carter and rebuild it (or have Tom rebuild it), put it on the shelf until you have problems with the 4-Jet, and then change it. If you decide to do it yourself, the "genuine" Carter AFB is one of the easier 4-barrels to rebuild. Jon. Edited February 1, 2022 by carbking (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Idle jets CAN be drilled to make them larger. ALSO if you solder them closed then you can drill them to the proper smaller specs. I have been doing this for years with little or no problems especially on Weber carbs. where one needs to "Experiment". Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 Well, it’s time to move past this Rochester 4gc. It’s leaking too much fuel for me to feel it’s safe. Fuel is running down towards the valve covers. Carter AFB it is. On a separate note, I’m trying to fix a non functional driver’s seat, but can’t find the 3 rear bolts securing the seat. I easily found the bolt next to the tunnel, but the carpeting is so heavy I can’t find the middle or door side. Any tricks to this procedure. I also read a thread where someone got the seat transmission relubed without removing the seat - is this nearly impossible? I’m looking/feeling under there and I feel like I’m working with Andre the Giant’s hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 Got my power seat working again by removing, cleaning/greasing The transmission and reinstalling. The seat didn’t seem to move too quickly forward/backwards - does great up/down. Getting the bolts back in the floor was not fun. I’m exhausted. The seat is just heavy enough and awkward enough that it felt like I’ve been wrestling a small bear the last hour. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 21 hours ago, Brtele said: Got my power seat working again by removing, cleaning/greasing The transmission and reinstalling. The seat didn’t seem to move too quickly forward/backwards - does great up/down. Getting the bolts back in the floor was not fun. I’m exhausted. The seat is just heavy enough and awkward enough that it felt like I’ve been wrestling a small bear the last hour. Did you clean all the ground points between the motor, frame and floor? On my last two cars with power seats I installed a redundant ground wire from the seat frame to a known clean spot and it improved the operation of the motor. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 2 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said: Did you clean all the ground points between the motor, frame and floor? On my last two cars with power seats I installed a redundant ground wire from the seat frame to a known clean spot and it improved the operation of the motor. You make a great point. I did not clean all the ground points. I did (slowly) get the seat into the position I will probably keep it in for years to come. No way can I bring myself to think about removing the seat a day after I conquered this epic battle. But you're probably more than correct on the grounding spots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Brtele said: You make a great point. I did not clean all the ground points. I did (slowly) get the seat into the position I will probably keep it in for years to come. No way can I bring myself to think about removing the seat a day after I conquered this epic battle. But you're probably more than correct on the grounding spots. The original factory installation has a ground wire between the seat frame and a seat to floor mounting bolt. Tom 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 Got the Rochester changed out for a Carter AFB and the conversion went really smooth. No more fuel leaks. Replaced the pcv valve. Next is replacing the radiator hoses. I’m not far off from ordering some new tires and getting this thing inspected/licensed. I’m so excited to finish getting it back to road worthiness. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) Upper/Lower/Bypass coolant hoses replaced along with the coolant (obviously). Oh yea, just found out hot air isn’t blowing off the heating coil - dang it, what a net 0 day. But maybe I won’t need (use) the heater. New tires are scheduled to arrive later today and hope to have them mounted tomorrow. I’m almost ready to drive this thing!!! Edited March 6, 2022 by Brtele (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Brtele said: hot air isn’t blowing off the heating coil Is the system holding coolant/pressure? Sounds like your heater control valve may be stuck closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brtele Posted March 6, 2022 Author Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 minute ago, EmTee said: Is the system holding coolant/pressure? Sounds like your heater control valve may be stuck closed. I don’t know, but might check/test the pressure. I was going to mess around/research the heating valve that had a vacuum line attached to it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 You can check to see whether vacuum is present when the heater switch is on. (I'm assuming ON will require vacuum to the switch.) If you have a hand vacuum pump you can try attaching it to the control valve and applying vacuum. If vacuum holds but no flow to the heater core, then the valve is probably stuck shut. You may be able to take it off and try to free it up (maybe soak in vinegar or cooling system cleaner). If the vacuum pump won't hold vacuum, then the diaphragm in the control valve is bad. You'll need a new valve, or find someone who can rebuild the one you have. Or.... I see Rock Auto lists one: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=815464&cc=1319330&pt=6860&jsn=411&_nck=Ekt6BqBF1pwlXdx0gYlm1esw98pF26vehMm%2FGG3C%2Fl2QOXSJubi7WSpUmUSdg3OxWOs2f5z9h422EONy36O0PjCuaadDqI1r86y%2FvJ1lBqy8eOR0sg7BszdZN4sjtsowJCVmUDkmtOiESAPQWTuHn%2Bool5R4LJM9tas7vGdP2ztKCJXa6Scj%2BgBmnMM3YtMAhRLugVlyyAdXWXctvCmX4t43imJXtU1f0pOx%2F2jFE%2BYezPThEBfRlyDopNnTvagKPL%2F3CspkeDvGaH%2BtxJC4whCOgCUxPZjGI5TcyojHujSah5SvVW5LN46ilSUdYbq9TmlPqJ3e%2BNtrovNkXmA0srqftl%2BLugs766Qu3gnzfeXyTFCy8KAufshPjRyN%2BfPJ6NTUmOfTYuo5nSFC%2FxNEtg%3D%3D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokomo Rivnut Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) I have a 63 Riviera with 401 v8 that has a Rocherster 4jet RGC-7023143 carb. I have sent this this thing to carbs unlimited to have it rebuilt. Got it back and the thing leaks. It seems the floats are not closing or the fuel pressure is to high. I was told by the rebuilder the fuel pressure may not be correct and that is what is causing the carb to overflow. Replaced the fuel pump and still have carb overflow issues. ANY SUGGESTIONS? Edited March 7, 2022 by Kokomo Rivnut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Kokomo Rivnut said: I have a 63 Riviera with 401 v8 that has a Rocherster 4jet RGC-7023143. I have sent this this thing to carbs unlimited to have it rebuilt. Got it back and the thing leaks. It seems the floats are not closing or the fuel pressure is to high. I was told by the rebuilder the fuel pressure may not be correct and that is what is causing the carb to overflow. Replaced the fuel pump and still have carb overflow issues. ANY SUGGESTIONS? You need to purchase a fuel pressure tester.....I've had brand new mechanical fuel pumps have 12 psi instead of the correct 6 psi right out of the box, causing the needle and seat in the carb not to be able to hold back the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokomo Rivnut Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Thanks Seafoam65, I plan to have the shop to check the fuel pressure and advise me from there. I know just enough to be dangerous at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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