Long Lost Keys

[Roger Frazee]

I recently inherited a 1984 Buick LeSabre that has literally been in a barn for the last twenty years.  Unfortunately, the keys are nowhere to be found.

 

Is it possible to have keys made from the VIN, or is there another way?

[junkyardjeff]

If it was sold locally and the dealer is still there they could still have the key numbers,back in the 80s I worked at a GM dealer and they had the key numbers back to the first car they sold.

[8E45E]

The numbers might also be recorded in the front pages of the Owner's Manual.

 

Craig

[John_S_in_Penna]

4 hours ago, 8E45E said:

The numbers might also be recorded in the front pages of the Owner's Manual.

 

Excellent, helpful idea, Craig!

Or, the key numbers might be written in some other paperwork,

kept in the glove compartment near the owner's manual.

A meticulous dealer might have given the owner that record.

 

Or, the original buyer might have saved the punched-out

metal ovals from the keys, that have the key numbers stamped in them,

and they might be in with the glove-compartment paperwork.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

Failing all else, the key codes should be stamped on the outside of the ignition lock cylinder and the door lock cylinder. The ignition lock can be removed by pulling the steering wheel and lock plate, which provides access to the screw that holds the cylinder in the steering column. Removing the inner door panel allows the door lock cylinder to be removed. If you can't have keys made locally, send me a private message. This car should use an "A" blank for the ignition and a "B" blank for all the other locks.

[61polara]

Take your VIN to a GM dealer.  By 1984, I believe they could look up the key code by the VIN.  I think you will need to show proof of ownership for them to cut the keys.

[TAKerry]

If all else fails, I have a bit of experience with late 70's gm. Its probably not too hard to put in a new key cylinder. I can do a trans am with my eyes closed now. Cant imagine the Buick would be much diff.  Doors and trunk arent that much harder. 

 

But I would reiterate about the dealer being able to cut something from the vin.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, TAKerry said:

If all else fails, I have a bit of experience with late 70's gm. Its probably not too hard to put in a new key cylinder. I can do a trans am with my eyes closed now. Cant imagine the Buick would be much diff.  Doors and trunk arent that much harder. 

 

But I would reiterate about the dealer being able to cut something from the vin.

You don't need to put in a new cylinder. There is a four character code stamped on the outside of the cylinder. The Curtis code book turns that into a key cut profile. The 1980s full size cars still used the Briggs and Stratton style locks and keys that GM started using with the 1967 model year.

 

I've got the book and the Curtis key clipper to make new ones.

[Frank DuVal]

 At least 1984 is before GM started VATS aka Passcode 1 or Passcode 2 where the ignition key has a resistor pellet in it, so you will just need an A key cut to code. The doors trunk and glovebox will be a B key. Sometimes the glovebox lock has the code stamped on it, sometimes it needs to be taken apart to read the code. Still easier than taking a door panel off.

 

Do you know the original selling dealer?

Edited November 29, 2021 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Roger Frazee]

"Do you know the original selling dealer?"

 

I do know who the original selling dealer is and I believe they are still in business.  I will give them a call and see if they have records of the key codes.  

[SC38dls]

Roger, first you will have to get by the kid in the parts department that only knows how to use the computer and will most likely ask you not only the vin but “What’s a key?”  Cars are keyless now just like some parts guys are clueless! 
dave s 

[joe_padavano]

9 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

 At least 1984 is before GM started VATS aka Passcode 1 or Passcode 2 where the ignition key has a resistor pellet in it, so you will just need an A key cut to code. The doors trunk and glovebox will be a B key. Sometimes the glovebox lock has the code stamped on it, sometimes it needs to be taken apart to read the code. Still easier than taking a door panel off.

 

Do you know the original selling dealer?

I find it a lot easier to remove the door panel than to get the glovebox lock out. The bigger problem is that you can't get the key cuts from the glovebox lock if the code isn't stamped on it. The glovebox lock only uses four of the six tumblers that the other locks use. Also, the glovebox cylinder does not come apart the way the door cylinders do. Service glovebox lock cylinders came with the tumblers already in place. You just inserted the original key and filed the tumblers down to flush.

 

Also, the B-body cars didn't get VATS until the 1991 model year.

[TAKerry]

Yes, from my experience, some type of cylinder removal tool is required to remove the glove box lock. The others may be held in with a locking screw.

[60FlatTop]

Longing for the good old days of the original Radio Shack. I have a Radio Shack 10 pack of resistors with 9 left in it. The VATS system used 15 different resistances in the key. There are two small gauge wires at the base of the steering column that lead up to the lock cylinder. You can make up resistors starting at the low end and build up to the one that works. Pretty much what the dealer tool does. Then splice the resistor in permanently.

 

I had a 1994 Buick Roadmaster that had a random start engage problem. In that instance I measured the ohmic value of my existing key and jumped the wires to eliminate that potential problem and just left it there, the opposite of your issue. But the system can be defeated.

 

FYI, I resolved my problem by replacing the gear reduction starter with a straight through earlier one. After eating three starters with my wife driving I was good again.

 

Problems did arise later. I gave the car to a needy friend who took it to a shop a few years later when the starter failed. They couldn't wrap their head around me saying "Just ask for a 1979 Impala starter. Then the ignition switch went bad. Same garage had trouble with "Just put in a universal switch. No, the key doesn't matter! Really!"

 

Somehow they fixed the car. And I paid my friend's bill because he was short and they would not put an inspection sticker on it until paid. They still look at me suspiciously.

 

PM me if you want the 15 resistance values.

[Frank DuVal]

Passcode ohms are on last page of this document, just remember, that column labeled Ohms is really KilloOHMS!😲

 

https://www.lockmasters.com/site/pdfs/TT4002 Vats Overview Article.pdf

 

That's right, some of those late 70s and 80s glovebox locks are not as simple as I made it out to remove.  Check YouTube for a video and see if it applies.

[60FlatTop]

Entertaining stuff. The electrical engineer is thinking in powers of ten, goes to the production engineer and hears "We'll make 15 of variations". The expression had to be priceless. The least they could have done was varies them on the square root of 2. But it's DC.

[joe_padavano]

The whole VATS discussion is interesting and completely unrelated to the OP's car. 😁

[Roger Frazee]

Good news.  While doing a second search of the glove compartment contents I found where the key codes had been written on the warranty booklet by the dealer.  

[hidden_hunter]

If it’s anything like our domestics from the 80’s a butter knife could probably start it

[junkyardjeff]

I think that VAT system came out around 84 but in Corvettes.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, junkyardjeff said:

I think that VAT system came out around 84 but in Corvettes.

 

Yes, but again we are talking about a B-body, which did not get VATS until the 1991 model year.

[TAKerry]

20 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

If it’s anything like our domestics from the 80’s a butter knife could probably start it

Big reason I changed the cylinder in my 77 T/A. The key was literally worn down to no teeth. It was like a small knife.

[pmhowe]

20 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

If it’s anything like our domestics from the 80’s a butter knife could probably start it

Your comment gave me my laugh for the day. Back in the 1970s, I was into Jaguars. i found that, with - i think three different keys - I could start any fifties or sixties Jaguar I tried. The locks and keys were made by Union. I still have a bunch of the keys, i just don't have the Jaguars. 

Jaguar and Union need not be too embarrassed; many if not most tractor brands have a single key that will start any of their tractors.

[Frank DuVal]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Big reason I changed the cylinder in my 77 T/A. The key was literally worn down to no teeth. It was like a small knife.

???

A code cut key fixes that quickly. I make them all the time. Without a known code, SWAGS can be made to get the cut depths. Good news, start with a high cut depth and you can cut them shorter on the same blank.

[joe_padavano]

10 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

???

A code cut key fixes that quickly. I make them all the time. Without a known code, SWAGS can be made to get the cut depths. Good news, start with a high cut depth and you can cut them shorter on the same blank.

 

^^^THIS, but unfortunately most people have never seen a Curtis Key Clipper. They only know the hardware store key copying machines.