1923 Kissel Model 6-45 Gold Bug Speedster

[ron hausmann]

All -

    Well I’m almost done with my restoration of the 1917 Kissel truck and am awaiting its engine from my COVID-stricken engine mechanic. So out of boredom I am starting my last restoration - a Classic 1923 Kissel Model 6-45 Gold Bug Speedster.!!

    The Kissel Model 6-45, in my opinion, is the most beautiful Kissel chassis and most powerful of its Kissel-made engines. It has a longer wheelbase than either the 6-38 and the 6-55’s, and it’s engine is rated at higher HP than either as well. The 6-45 is also, in my opinion, the hardest one to find. 

    Several years ago I bought an unrestored 1923 Gold Bug which had been sitting in a shed since 1956. See pictures. It didn’t have an engine in it, but the selle had a very good, complete Kissel Model 6-55 engine next to it. That would work, but not be correct. And the frame was altered in the front to mount a never installed V8. 
    Then Two years ago, I bought a derelict Kissel Model 6-45 Touring car. Body shot and bad wood, but good 6-45 engine and frame. In fact excellent engine and frame!

    So I have this week started the process of stripping down the touring chassis and engine, to start marrying these two cars. 
   I plan on restoring the Gold Bug EXACTLY the same as the Gold Bug pictured on the the cover of the book “The Classic Kissel Automobile”, which is the Bible to us Kissel owners and experts.

    Comments and hints are always welcomed !!

    Ron Hausmann P.E.

[1937hd45]

NICE CAR! I'll be following this project. Unless the frame under that Speedster is totally shot, I would hope you would keep them both together and just cut off needed bits from the Touring frame. Will everything be painted yellow? Gray tires would look nice. Bob 

[DBKissel]

Ron,

 

Always glad to see you save these gems in the rough from the scrapyard.  I'm sure it will be excellent-can't wait for the photo updates to start.  /Doug

[edinmass]

Ron, looks like another great project. Just one comment.............you said “my last restoration”, I certainly hope that isn’t true. You seem like a person who is always  keeping busy, and I doubt that will change.....unless you focus your attention on something new. Maybe a Kissel museum? 🤔

[ron hausmann]

7 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

NICE CAR! I'll be following this project. Unless the frame under that Speedster is totally shot, I would hope you would keep them both together and just cut off needed bits from the Touring frame. Will everything be painted yellow? Gray tires would look nice. Bob 

Bob,

    The frames are identical except for where the step plates versus running boards attach. And a few holes different for side mount brackets. I haven’t decided which frame will end up being used, but likely the one that need# the least tweaking. The existing speedster frame front was split for a V8, and the front spring shackle mounts were ruined. 

    Gray tires are not available as far as I my research has gone so far. Any leads would be welcomed! 33 x 5 or 32 x 4 1/2 mandatory correct size.

     Right now yes all yellow. Just a gray frame. 
     Ron Hausmann P.E.

[1937hd45]

Have you had both your Speedsters side by side? What are the options one has and the other doesn't? The 1920's was the era of boxes on wheels, to me there are 6-10 cars that really stand out The Kissel Gold Bug is one of them. Bob

[ron hausmann]

12 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Have you had both your Speedsters side by side? What are the options one has and the other doesn't? The 1920's was the era of boxes on wheels, to me there are 6-10 cars that really stand out The Kissel Gold Bug is one of them. Bob

Bob,

    Options that were available on Gold bugs back then ;

Wire wheels I believe were standard for Gold Bugs. Maybe you could get wood (?)

Bar bumpers optional

Waltham clock optional

Boyce meter optional

spotlights (s) optional

Color was “optional” - if you ordered a built-to-suit. Factory painted yellow when inventoried. 
Exhaust cutout was standard on Gold Bugs. 
Luggage rack and trunk were optional. Special brackets required.

E & J Model 20 headlights for 6-45’s were apparently dealer options (my research)

    I will probably equip the second bug with all these options except no E & J headlights and no spots. They just look a lot better when they are pimped-out. I want this one to be different than my other bug, so I’ll paint her all yellow, and put a jet black top and trunk on her. Hope I can find gray tires like the picture.

    Ron

 

[1937hd45]

If my memory is correct the unrestored one has wheels that are just there to roll it around. Even if they are twins, somehow the unrestored one catches my eye. Bob 

[ron hausmann]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

If my memory is correct the unrestored one has wheels that are just there to roll it around. Even if they are twins, somehow the unrestored one catches my eye. Bob 

Bob, on the unrestored one, The front axle is a Cadillac or huge car with massive Buffalo #6 wires. 
The rear axle and wheels are original and correct Buffalo #5 wires in great restorable shape.

You can see the botched front ring shackles and cut frame on it in the pictures above. 
Between both chassis, I have more than enough wheels, axles, and parts. 
Ron Hausmann P.E.

[edinmass]

Where I come from, number six Buffalo’s are normal, and five’s are undersized. I need five hubs of #5’s for a new project I haven’t announced yet........any extras kicking around?

[alsancle]

Looking forward to this thread.   Is the chassis number stamped anywhere in that frame?   If it is I would try to use it, else you can do what is easiest.

 

I said it before, but I love your garage.

[ron hausmann]

8 hours ago, edinmass said:

Where I come from, number six Buffalo’s are normal, and five’s are undersized. I need five hubs of #5’s for a new project I haven’t announced yet........any extras kicking around?

Ed,

    Yes I have several Houk/Buffalo #5 front hubs in great shape. These are very hard to get. Also have Buffalo side mount brackets and Buffalo rear spare castings from donor cars. Hard to get. And have just two rear Buffalo hubs from one of these chassis. And have rare unrestored #5 hubcaps. My email is ronaldhausmann@yahoo.com and tell me what specifically you need.

Ron

[ron hausmann]

29 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Looking forward to this thread.   Is the chassis number stamped anywhere in that frame?   If it is I would try to use it, else you can do what is easiest.

 

I said it before, but I love your garage.

Alsancle,

     There are no chassis numbers on either chassis. I don’t know that this was standard for model 6-45’s. However, both cars have their body number plaques which were used to identify the body&chassis in Kissel nomenclature.

      Ron

[ron hausmann]

Ok let’s get started !

Here is the BEFORE picture and the AFTER picture in scale.

Ron

[ron hausmann]

Nother better picture

[Luv2Wrench]

Very excited to see this restoration.  I would say, however, that if I owned the car I'd probably get it mechanically sound and leave it as is.  It just has such a cool look with that patina.   It'll look outstanding when restored as well of course.  Going to be beautiful and I'm glad you're taking us along for the ride!!

[ron hausmann]

All - Update as of November 12, 2021;

1. Stripping of Gold Bug body and frame had started. Inasmuch as that car was in a shed since 1956, there is little rust but a lot of dust and gunk.

2. Gold Bug fenders have been removed and are in excellent shape!

3. Donor car cab, vacuume tank, brackets, headlights, hood, everything is nearly completely stripped off of the chassis. 
4. Radiators and radiator shells from both cars have been r3moved and given to radiator shop for evaluation.

5. Gas tanks from both cars have been removed and taken to a tank shop to be cleaned and tested to get one good one.

Next week ;

A. Continue stripping both cars down to the frame.

B. Determine which frame will end up being used for the Gold Bug restoration. Both are correct Model 6-45. Today I learned that the existing  frame under the Gold Bug now has had all the motor mounts removed as well as more damage done when theCadillac front axle was added in the 1950’s.

C. Strip out steering column and steering control rods.
D. Clean parts including vacuum tank, carb, fender brackets, etc.

E. Figure out how to dismount the Gold Bug body from its current frame without damaging it. There is some wood deterioration and I don’t want to bend it at the weak spot where the doors are. 
F. Build an engine stand for the engine to be transported.

see pictures..

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[prewarnut]

You're making this look easy! I enjoyed watching the artillery truck project. Please keep the updates coming!

[ron hausmann]

23 minutes ago, prewarnut said:

You're making this look easy! I enjoyed watching the artillery truck project. Please keep the updates coming!

Three things make restoring an orphan car somewhat easier;

a. An understanding wife (our deal is she gets a Channel for every car I buy or restore)

b. A heated large garage or shop.

c. Spare parts. I have a hoard of spare parts from ten derelict Kissels.

Being retired also helps. 
Ron

[Gary_Ash]

Wrap some thick foam or bubble wrap around those step/running board supports on the red chassis before they bite your shins and draw blood, ditto as the other body comes off.  Ask me how I know...

[ron hausmann]

32 minutes ago, Gary_Ash said:

Wrap some thick foam or bubble wrap around those step/running board supports on the red chassis before they bite your shins and draw blood, ditto as the other body comes off.  Ask me how I know...

I’ve been bitten many times so I know how to avoid them. best way is to keep space between the chassis!
ron 

[prewarnut]

Can you school us? There's a certain Gold Bug, represented by a certain TV celeb/dealer shown on a certain exclusive show field (in yellow) which has a mother-in-law seat on the passenger side. Was this a factory option and/or what would the point of it be? It's almost like a motorcycle side-car but just a little more scary.

[ron hausmann]

4 hours ago, prewarnut said:

Can you school us? There's a certain Gold Bug, represented by a certain TV celeb/dealer shown on a certain exclusive show field (in yellow) which has a mother-in-law seat on the passenger side. Was this a factory option and/or what would the point of it be? It's almost like a motorcycle side-car but just a little more scary.

prewarnut - Kissel Model 6-45 Gold Bug Speedsters were built from 1919 to mid 1923. These cars were equipped as standard with an “ outrigger “ seat on both sides. Sold as four passenger cars. The seats can slide in and out as required. These seats are, in fact very sturdy, being supported by large cast armatures, and capable f holding up to 300 lbs. each. In practice however, this was a dumb idea and those seats were eliminated in mid 1923 when the model 6-55 was introduced. I don’t use these seats except when the car is stationary, although it’s legal to have folks in them when the car is speeding at 70 mph.

Ron

[prewarnut]

Thanks, I thought it was the golf bag door, not having seen one up close. 

[ron hausmann]

All - update as of November 15, 2021.

1. Stripping of donor Kissel 6-45 chassis and engine has been completed. Engine ready to come out.

2. Stripping of damaged Kissel Gold Bug chassis has started. Cadillac front axle has been taken off.

3. Stripping of Kissel Gold Bug parts has been undertaken. Top has been unbolted, revealing really good set of wood bows andirons. Irons and wood just need to be replated and refinished.

5. have started rust and grime removal of small parts. I use and ammunition tumbler which is great.

6. Steering column and column control rods have been taken apart. Everything came free easily and restoration will be easier for many parts.

UPCOMING IN NEXT COUPLE WEEKS;

a. Need to finish dismounting Gold Bug body so I can compare frames and select which is best.

b. Start restoring frame parts. This means dismounting axles and springs and taking wheel hubs and steering arms apart for cleaning and painting. Probably will reuse springs from donor car.

c. Build engine stand and ready engine for overhaul. So far, I’m finding that this engine may have been redone decades ago but never driven. She looks pristine inside and i can tell it was taken apart at least once.

d. Works going to slow due to holiday travel and house decorating. 
RON HAUSMANN P.E.

[Tph479]

Did this car come out of a barn in Lake Odessa, Michigan?

[ron hausmann]

H479 - yes it’s the “McDowell Kissel” which was in that shed with the split window Custom Packard and Reo cars since 1956. Tires still held air! Those brothers had taste!

Ron 

[ron hausmann]

H479 - yes it’s the “McDowell Kissel” which was in that shed with the split window Custom Packard and Reo cars since 1956. Tires still held air! Those brothers had taste!

Ron 

[Tph479]

Ron,

I spent 6 years on and off, mostly off, restoring your Gold bugs stable mate of 56 years… I didn’t retrieve the Packard out of the barn, but I heard all about the treasures that were stored in the barn for all of those years. I think you have a fantastic car and look forward to following your restoration.

Tim

[ron hausmann]

All - Update as of November 21, 2021:

1. Donor chassis has been stripped down to axles and engine block. Exhaust manifold and all exte4nap engine parts have been stripped.

2. Gold Bug chassis stripping continues. Doors have been removed, Top has be3n dismounted.

3. Gold Bug Cowl add one have been stripped down to blank metal face.

4. Cowl Cast aluminum trim strip has be3n painstakingly removed for buffing. It was broken in the past .

5. Removal of Gold Bug body will be pursued ove4 next two weeks. Wood looks good, just in need of joking epoxy strengthening. 
6. All instruments have been removed.

Over next two weeks we will;

A. Remove Gold Bug Trunk tops, trunk fittings and deteriorated internal trim.

B. Remove Gold Bug aluminum dash face shee5 for polishing.

C. Existing radiator was god per radiator shop. He just needs a couple fittings to complete minor repair.

D. Hope to build engine stand in next two weeks.

E. Hope to dismount bare Kissel body in next two weeks. Need to build a body dolly.

F. I sanded Underneath stripped windshield, and found that this Gold Bug was never painted yellow. While most Gold Bugs were yellow, Kissel encouraged “optional” colors in their adds, and this one was more green originally. See pictures.

Work will slow due to holidays and grandkids.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[58L-Y8]

What a great project to undertake!  I'll be following with interest as you proceed   Thanks for taking us along.

[edinmass]

What is the factory color you found? Looks like more than one layer of paint.......time to do sand paper automotive archeology!

 

 

[John Bloom]

On 11/16/2021 at 9:27 PM, Tph479 said:

Ron,

I spent 6 years on and off, mostly off, restoring your Gold bugs stable mate of 56 years… I didn’t retrieve the Packard out of the barn, but I heard all about the treasures that were stored in the barn for all of those years. I think you have a fantastic car and look forward to following your restoration.

Tim

Tim, that restoration of yours turned out pretty well.   Tim and Ron. Tell us more about what the McDowell brothers had in the barn.  Forgive me if that has already been discussed elsewhere and ignore me if it takes your restoration off into hijack territory. 

[ron hausmann]

4 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

Tim, that restoration of yours turned out pretty well.   Tim and Ron. Tell us more about what the McDowell brothers had in the barn.  Forgive me if that has already been discussed elsewhere and ignore me if it takes your restoration off into hijack territory. 

I remember my Gold Bug, a couple Reos since Ken McDowel was a Rep engineer, and a custom Ralston bodied 1930-ish packard roadster, a one-of like nd with a split windshield. It was made into a pull tractor. I understand that it was purchased and restored and has won at several Concours. I think he had a couple other ones makes that I can’t remember. The shed was piled up ground to rafters solid with stuff.

Ron Hausmann 

[ron hausmann]

Google Packard 1930 Model 840 Custom Eight Rollston for description of car his Packard today

[Tph479]

It’s been about 8-9 years since I was told the story of what was in the barn, but there were 6 Packards, which I guess is one of the most interesting Packard finds in the last 20 years or so.

 

1920 Packard twin six runabout

1922 Packard six touring car

1922 or 1924 Packard six touring car

1931 Packard 840 v windshield Rollston (picture attached)

1937 Packard 120 convertible coupe

1937 Packard Twelve convertible Victoria 

 

I think the other cars were, which I may be wrong on were:

the Kissel gold bug, which peaked my interest, a REO Royale Convertible Coupe, an early electric car, maybe a Stanley steamer, a coupe of early brass cars like 1 and 2 cylinder REOs, and  I think a 1913 Peerless roadster. There may have also been some other interesting cars jammed into the barn in the 1950’s, but those are the one I remember hearing about. From what I understand the cars in the barn were barn finds prior to being but into the barn by the McDowell brothers until they were  sold off circa 2012. I think that all the cars found the proper caretakers.

 

In Hartford, Wisconsin there is a car museum with a lot of Kissels and is worth the visit for everyone who is local to it.  They also have a gold bug on display.

 

[ron hausmann]

     A couple of those cars were there were I visited the shed. Some under piles if @stuff” as they were true hoarders. 
    The Kissel Gold Bug was in very great shape body-wise with not one dent. No rust at all. The metal trim was all there. 
     I almost bought that split window 1831 Rollston Packard and kick myself a lot for not buying it when I could. Unique beautiful car, but I’m not a Packard guy.

    Thx. Ron Hausmann P.E.

[ron hausmann]

As of December 1, 2021,

1. Radiator testing and flushing is done. She’s ok and will be repainted this week.

2. Speedster top has been dismounted. Top materials have been salvaged for future patterns. Boy, they used hundreds of little tacks to secure the top! 
3. Speedster top irons and bows have been isolated for restoration. The wood is good and just needs epoxy in the holes and a good refinishing. All oak. The top irons are excellent just needing re-nickeling.

4. small parts and fasteners have be3n tumbled and polished and put aside for later use.
Next steps are -

a. Build engine stand
b. Build body dolly.

c. Continue stripping body trunk parts, step plates, dash plate.

d. Unbolt body from existing frame.

e. Start restoring steering column and quadrant parts. 
F. Decide which frame will end up being used and start cutting to match.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[keiser31]

Were those cowl lamps an option? I see a lot of Kissels online without them. That is SUCH a cool Kar!

Edited December 1, 2021 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[ron hausmann]

Keiser -

    Kissel used different cowl lights for different models and changed often year to year. That drives restorers nuts. The cowl lights on this unrestored 1923 are the exact same as those on my restored 1923, so I’m pretty sure that these are correct. My 1923 Kissel Sedan has entirely different ones with jewels.

    Thanks, Ron