edinmass Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) Please excuse me while I take some time away from the forum..........work occasionally gets in the way (This job thing really rains on the parade of White projects!) and I need to play wrench to some Duesenbergs on tour in the Southern part of the US for the next eight days. The work of the poor and uneducated is NEVER done. When I return I will try and post a ton of stuff on my White number two............... Phil was a godsend his week......couldn’t have gotten the cars ready to tour without him. He’s got a bunch of fun stuff to do while I’m away........on the 1915 White. Hell, he is even working on the Stearns at the same time! Edited October 16, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Enjoy the ride, hope all you have to do is drive during the day and sip bourbon at night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I know, I know. Keeping those Duesenbergs humming like a fine cello concerto is terrible to have to do. But somebody DOES have to do it! Have fun! I might want to talk with you after you get back? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, George K said: Ed, How long did White use that 30 truck chassis? I remember having 3/4 ton White chassis’s from the 1920’s. Maybe they are different. Still stuck on what did the short wheelbase 16V4 chassis looked like. Can’t believe they built two separate sets of tooling for long and short wheelbase versions. The only way to shorten the chassis would have been to cut it on the flat straight section and weld it. Maybe someone can help find the 124” 16V4 chassis photo. The 3/4 ton Trucks with the 30 HP engine were called Model 15's. I have been told that the reason was because it could carry a load of 1,500 LBS which of course equals 3/4 of a ton. The Model 15 Truck was manufactured from 1915 until 1925. My truck is one of the last model 15's built. The earlier trucks were letter models. In 1926 the new model 15B was introduced which was a one ton model. First photo is a model 15. Second photo is a model 15B. Dandy Dave! Edited October 16, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 To add to the truck information I have some detailed photos of another White I took a lot of photos of at the Macungie, Pa. ATCA show several years ago. Notice the frame is not squared off in the rear like my truck. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Thanks Dandy Dave! You can easily see how the chassis is easy to make into any wheelbase you want without any trouble. The cars were obviously close cousins of the light trucks...........I would be interested to know the wheel bearing numbers on the 3/4 ton truck for the front.......it figure out how close the cars and trucks are related. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) Ed, stop and look at my truck anytime you are in the area. Climb under it, Climb over it. Take it for a drive weather permitting. Info on the White 15 at the show. Rear end photos and the springs and brakes. Edited October 16, 2021 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 A few more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said: To add to the truck information I have some detailed photos of another White I took a lot of photos of at the Macungie, Pa. ATCA show several years ago. Notice the frame is not squared off in the rear like my truck. That’s the type of chassis I had. With that turn down at the rear it limits the wheelbase. Nice photos. Thanks for posting them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, edinmass said: Thanks Dandy Dave! You can easily see how the chassis is easy to make into any wheelbase you want without any trouble. The cars were obviously close cousins of the light trucks...........I would be interested to know the wheel bearing numbers on the 3/4 ton truck for the front.......it figure out how close the cars and trucks are related. I have not had my front wheels off yet but could at some point just to clean and repack the bearings. I never take it out of first gear at a show. Just let it idle around in first. Dandy Dave! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said: I have not had my front wheels off yet but could at some point just to clean and repack the bearings. I never take it out of first gear at a show. Just let it idle around in first. Dandy Dave! I have a White hub puller if you need it.........which you probably will, happy to let you borrow it. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 On 10/14/2021 at 6:53 PM, edinmass said: I thought that till about four or five days ago, and in late 1914, the transmissions all went to wet disk. Cone clutches went away across the board. The town car has the over drive trans in it. (1916 cars sales catalogs show they are still the separate unit with the jack shaft.) Had a conversation with another White owner who replied in like without hesitation. I’m still sorting it all out, typical White............what you read, what is published by the company, and what they actually built. The Zenith engineering card clearly shows they were manufacturing carburetors for the 16V4 in 1915. Interesting that White ended up using their own barrel valve unit instead. The conversation with him really went into detail, on multiple years, applications, and horsepower from 1914 to 1923 on transmissions and clutches. Including photos of factory tools..........to adjust and remove them. The guy helped me early on on the first car........I would have taken a month to figure it out without his help. He even went into detail on brake drums, design changes, and the like. Interesting fellow, who is meeting me Monday for lunch in the Smokey Mountains on another tour.........with his 1923 White Yellowstone bus......seen below. And you thought car collectors were crazy! Try collecting busses! Just as a point of clarification on terms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) Too much Crown Royal. Lunch on Palm Peach Island. No pain, no brain. Edited October 16, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 So not only are you saying the drinks are good and cold but “ the weathers here wish you were beautiful “. ? 😜 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 This is from 1925 Dykes. Thought it could be a good reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Models, number of piston rings and dimensions in inches. This may be interesting for it lists White models over the years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Dyke's Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia By Andrew Lee Dyke · 1925 Page 930 has White Truck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 1920 White commercial. Edited October 17, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 This isnt a white car but i think the engine and trans are out of a white car and have been put into a r/h drive 3 ton chaindrive white truck, trans is smaller and different than other white trans i have and is alloy, another white chassis i have is a little truck and only has a 9 ft 6” wheelbase, did white make a 1/2 ton truck ? or xtra short wheelbase model 15 ? Id sure like to find out what model it actually is, ive added some pictures of both chassis, mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 4 hours ago, blastermike said: This isnt a white car but i think the engine and trans are out of a white car and have been put into a r/h drive 3 ton chaindrive white truck, trans is smaller and different than other white trans i have and is alloy, another white chassis i have is a little truck and only has a 9 ft 6” wheelbase, did white make a 1/2 ton truck ? or xtra short wheelbase model 15 ? Id sure like to find out what model it actually is, ive added some pictures of both chassis, mike All those holes drilled in the frame remind me of a 1980 Ford 1/2 ton!! Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 5 hours ago, blastermike said: This isnt a white car but i think the engine and trans are out of a white car and have been put into a r/h drive 3 ton chaindrive white truck, trans is smaller and different than other white trans i have and is alloy, another white chassis i have is a little truck and only has a 9 ft 6” wheelbase, did white make a 1/2 ton truck ? or xtra short wheelbase model 15 ? Id sure like to find out what model it actually is, ive added some pictures of both chassis, mike That’s really nice stuff. If I was you I would graft the drive line including the chain drive axle into that perfect short wheelbase chassis. What a beautiful confection chain drive speedster. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 The picture shows a GA engine 1910 to about 1912 as is right hand drive, same engine in cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 The man i got the 3 ton white from said it was an early model (1912) as it was r/hand drive and it originally came from san franscisco, the engine just looks too small for the size of the truck and the crossmember that holds the back of the trans has been modified, the engine turns and it came with a very nice brass radiator, i still think the engine and trans are from a similar age car ? but they are white so i suppose it really doesnt matter? mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Could be the correct engine if it's a 1912 3-Ton truck. Four cylinder with a 3.75 inch bore according to the info above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Hi mike 6024, yeh could be? This certificate of tittle came with the truck when i bought it in idaho, ive also got a bigger 1918 5 ton chaindrive White thats fairly complete mechanically and unrestored, it has the 40 h/p engine and a very heavy chassis thats all riveted added a few more pictures of the whites thanks mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I won’t claim any knowledge of early heavy trucks, but I do watch the thread on the guys in England restoring all the “Great War Trucks” ............and the front end of the 5 ton White from 1918 sure looks very similar to other early WWI trucks, with the curved front frame rail. Was it common to all heavy trucks built for WWI? Neat project. Seems all the early trucks that survive today are heroic restorations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 What a wonderful beast of a truck. Beam rails and all. That was meant to carry some weight. How wide are those springs? The wheels are great. What to you think top end was. 5-10 mph? Replaced a lot of horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/18/2021 at 2:53 AM, blastermike said: This isnt a white car but i think the engine and trans are out of a white car and have been put into a r/h drive 3 ton chaindrive white truck, trans is smaller and different than other white trans i have and is alloy, another white chassis i have is a little truck and only has a 9 ft 6” wheelbase, did white make a 1/2 ton truck ? or xtra short wheelbase model 15 ? Id sure like to find out what model it actually is, ive added some pictures of both chassis, mike The engine in this truck is a mirror image of most that I have seen. The carburetor, water pump, magneto, sparkplugs and valve train is on the opposite side. Cool feature. Dandy Dave! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 2 hours ago, George K said: What a wonderful beast of a truck. Beam rails and all. That was meant to carry some weight. How wide are those springs? The wheels are great. What to you think top end was. 5-10 mph? Replaced a lot of horses. Most of these early trucks Did not get much faster than 18 MPH. Although the fellow that had the White 15 I shared the photos of said it would go 45 to 50 MPH on highway. His had the overdrive option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, edinmass said: I won’t claim any knowledge of early heavy trucks, but I do watch the thread on the guys in England restoring all the “Great War Trucks” ............and the front end of the 5 ton White from 1918 sure looks very similar to other early WWI trucks, with the curved front frame rail. Was it common to all heavy trucks built for WWI? Neat project. Seems all the early trucks that survive today are heroic restorations. That curved front cross member is mainly found on the larger White's as far as I know. The other U.S. made military trucks that I am most familiar with, Packard, U.S.A., Kissel, F.W.D. AC Mack, don't feature a big , curved front crossmember. Some of the British and European trucks may, but even then just plain , protruding frame horns to pick up the front spring eyes seem to be the most common. Edited October 19, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Traffic Motor Trucks also used a wraparound frame at the front. https://mycompanies.fandom.com/wiki/Traffic_Motor_Truck_Corporation Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 The rear springs on the 5 ton white are 5” wide and the chassis rails are 7” deep tapered rsj, as greg knows most old trucks from this era were worked hard and usually had been altered and come with missing components, i have no sheetmetal at all for the 3 and 5 ton whites but i do have a hood for the little white, unfortunately its missing the correct wooden wheels and the handbrake, the chassis had been used to display a large marine engine, the curved front crossmember/ bumper was a feature of the 3 and 5 ton models and ive read there was a 6 ton model too which was chaindrive also, around 1919 white switched to a bevel drive diff for the bigger trucks hope this is of interest? mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Ok......try this.........”All things White” are of interest, and welcomed here on either of the two White threads anytime.........👍👍👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 7 hours ago, Dandy Dave said: Most of these early trucks Did not get much faster than 18 MPH. Although the fellow that had the White 15 I shared the photos of said it would go 45 to 50 MPH on highway. His had the overdrive option. When I was a young fellow, just getting into this hobby, I often went to some of the tours put on by the Santa Clara Valley Horseless Carriage Club, just to look at the cars. One of my mentors and a long time very good friend was a member. There was a fellow in those days that often toured with the club with his 1915 White truck. As I recall, it was a somewhat enclosed cab flatbed truck (C-cab?). He had no trouble at all keeping up with most of the strictly pre1916 cars in the club. I was told that the truck could do 45 mph if pushed a bit. I didn't have an early enough car in those days, never did join that particular club myself. And I never got to really know the guy. I did meet him a number of times, and he was well liked by the club members. And his truck was beautifully restored. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Thanks Ed and many thanks to the others for their comments, i reckon white must of made a good vehicle/truck as there are many survivors even way down here at the bottom of the pacific, cheers mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) My hard rubber Packard has a brass plate that warns not to exceed 12 M.P.H. I think that sort of speed is about the norm on any of the hard rubber trucks. Once pneumatic tires became more common { mid 1920's for the 2 ton and up trucks} speeds started to trend more toward the 30 M.P.H. mark. Edited October 19, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 A lot of even 1920s trucks had tags on the firewall that warned to "Do Not Exceed 25MPH". A very good friend more than forty years ago had an early 1920s Mack Bulldog three axle originally equipped with the pneumatic tires option. Bob E. was a great guy! He loved to tell people that "The Mack's top speed is sixteen miles per hour! NOT seventeen, SIXTEEN!" I have no idea what the tonnage rating or specific model was, but that truck was HUGE! And oboy did it sound neat when running and being driven! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 The engine in the 5 ton truck is a GEC 45 HP look and see the motor number starts with GEC just plug the hole in the intake and it will start right up. Removed one of these from a 5 ton for a spare for my car. The connection rods were about twice as heavy as the car . Look in the transmission and check second gear it is the gear with 1/2 the teeth ground off, the drivers reved the engine up then speed shifted to second. The front transmission mount is stamped either 3D or 4D also if the truck is1918 or newer the serial number is stamped into the cross member in front of the transmission. Let s know what you find. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Hi Li Bentley, hey thats great that you know details about white trucks, yeh it is the 45 h/p engine GEC, the trans internals look ok, and i found the number on the trans mount 3D and TEF, the engine also has a casting date jan 31 18, ive got a spare engine for this 5 ton truck and the brass radiator plus a pile of other spares in a crate on the back, sprockets /axles / chains / steering box, it all came of another 5 ton truck in chicago that was being scrapped, ive allways thought this truck to be a model TC long w/base ? The overall length is just under 20 feet appprox pictures below of the numbers/tags, id love to find a hood and a set of fenders for this truck, from what ive seen the later 5 ton model 45’s had similar sheetmetal with mesh sidepanels, and fenders looked identical, mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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