1935 Pierce Arrow V12 Limo that Runs

[alsancle]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Pierce-Arrow-1245-V-12-Limousine-NO-RESERVE-SEE-IT-RUN/164731077714

 

 

his 1935 Pierce-Arrow V-12 Limousine was purchased by the current owner in 1989. It was a running and driving car at that time. The son of the owner remembers the engine being smooth and near silent when running in 1990. The plan was for the car to receive a full restoration, however the owner's other cars (including another Pierce, several Cords, Cadillacs and other Classics) took precedence and this Pierce was stored in the garage while work on the other cars continued around it. With the owner's recent passing, his family is now making this rare V-12 powered Pierce-Arrow available here at NO RESERVE with hopes it will find a new owner who will put it back on the road.

The body and chassis are solid with no rust-out. This is the LARGE 7-Passenger Limousine body on the 147" wheelbase. Very straight with only a few small scrapes noted. It looks like some front-end body work was done at some time in the distant past, prior to current ownership. The original grille shutters were replaced with round steel rods, although a correct original grille with thermostatic shutters (needing restoration) is included. See photo. The body currently wears its original, worn "Ocean Gray Dark" paint, with some black primer sprayed over the top in a few areas, especially the front fenders. Overall, the body is in very good condition, as seen in the photos. The chrome and trim are original and the bumpers are straight. The top insert appears original and undamaged, with a good edge bead. Steel artillery wheels appear in good condition. Tires are old and should be replaced before driving. All hubcaps are present.

The interior was replaced prior to the current ownership, likely in the 1980's. It appears very correct with smooth black leather in the chauffeur's compartment and gray wool broadcloth in the rear compartment. The cloth is showing some age and areas of wear from setting, with a few small holes noted in the seats and headliner. Please see photos. Dual jump seats in the rear compartment are solid and fold easily. All of the genuine wood garnish moldings around the windows are present and in good condition overall. All of the window cranks and door handles are present, with extras included. The glass is all original "Safety Plate" from 1935 with the door windows showing signs of delamination, discoloration and age. The windshield and rear window are clear and look good. The dashboard was primered for refinishing and the instrument panel removed to access the electrical wiring while readying the car to run again. The instrument panel is present and complete with all original gauges that appear to be in good condition. See photo.

Recently, the 462 cubic inch, 175 HP V-12 engine was made to run again and started for the first time in over 30 years. PLEASE SEE VIDEO. The car started easily and smoothed out during this short test run. The test run showed good oil pressure and no unusual noises or issues. The fuel pump has been removed for rebuilding and the car should be re-wired to operate safely. It is not ready to be driven without further work being done. The full extent of the work being needed is unknown, but the car should be fully restored (at least mechanically), prior to use. Mechanical brakes do work adequetely to stop the car when being moved by hand, as does the service brake. The transmission is free and moves through the gears, but we have not tried driving the car or shifting gears while in motion.

The car appears to be nearly complete. The items we noted as not being present are:
• Both headlight buckets and bezels (it appears the previous owner was making a sealed-beam light conversion.)
• 2 hood latches.
• Trunk Rack Medallion.
• Both air cleaners.
All are readily available. Note that other items may be absent that we have not noticed.

Overall, this is a rare Pierce V-12 and a worthy candidate for restoration. Records from the Pierce-Arrow Society show that only 48 of these V-12 Enclosed Drive Limousines were built. Just 12 (including this one) are known to exist today.

Please note that this car currently cannot be driven and must be loaded and transported by truck or trailer.

To settle the owner's estate, this car is being offered here at NO RESERVE. WILL SELL TO THE HIGH BIDDER AT THE CLOSE OF THE AUCTION ON SUNDAY, MARCH 7, 2021.
Out of respect to all bidders, PLEASE ask all questions and have your finances in order BEFORE bidding. We have been selling on eBay since 1998 (23 years) with 100% positive feedback. We take all of our auctions seriously and expect the same from bidders. Thank you.

[edinmass]

There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world, than a bargain Pierce 12.

[B Jake Moran]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world, than a bargain Pierce 12.

Boy that's a mic drop quote if I ever read one.  

[BobinVirginia]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world, than a bargain Pierce 12.

Up until now I thought the most expensive car problem was my cousin’s ex-wife getting some of his cars! Lol!! 
Sounds like there’s a story in what you just said Ed! 

[auburnseeker]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world, than a bargain Pierce 12.

Isn't the same to be said for most Rolls Royces? 

[58L-Y8]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world, than a bargain Pierce 12.

This can be paraphrased as follows:

"There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world than a bargain (insert nameplate of any initially expensive, technologically complex, low-production, spare parts scarce, exotic, luxury, high-performance automobile regardless of age).

[Matt Harwood]

15 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world, than a bargain Pierce 12.

 

Challenge accepted:

 

[alsancle]

This could be interesting.

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Challenge accepted:

 

 

 

Doesn't look ugly enough to be a PIII...............it's nothing that 1.5 million pounds wouldn't fix............but then again, thats for a half assed cut rate job. 

[Matt Harwood]

Phantom III: twice the cylinders, three times the parts, 0 times the service manuals.

[edinmass]

Just the babbit will run you 25K..............it would be cheaper to bail out the state of Illinois than to restore that car...............

[Cadillac Fan]

18 hours ago, edinmass said:

There is nothing more expensive in the automotive world, than a bargain Pierce 12.

Serious question:   How much cheaper is an 8?

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Serious question:   How much cheaper is an 8?

 

Easy answer........if you have to ask, you can’t afford it!

 

Ok, truthful answer.....a Pierce twelve is fantastic, if you have disposable income and a talented mechanic. Otherwise.....the eight is fine, and some Pierce people prefer them over the 12’s. I’m a 12 guy at heart. But have owned some fantastic 8’s. As we say in the Pierce Arrow Society..............when driving a Pierce your eating Cadillac’s and shixxng Packards!  😏

[mikewest]

They ate some of their own lunch posting that first start. It sounded like a worn out Franklin. Was there oil in the motor?

Edited March 6, 2021 by mikewest (see edit history)

[alsancle]

The PIII is definitely a money pit,  and when you are done you have a 150k car.   But my entry would be one of these.   A couple of data points:

 

1.  A new radiator is 50 to 100k depending on who does it and how nice a job you do.

 

2.  Fuel pumps were running 5k but that was 20 years ago.  I think they are at least 10k now.

 

One of the known shops is going to charge you 800k or more for a full boat restoration.

[alsancle]

hey Ed,  can you explain how the servo braking system works on these?     I've driven 3 different V12 Pierce Arrows (including yours) but the last time I did the touchiness of the brakes took me by surprise.   I almost locked up all 4 wheels at 30 miles an hour.

[trimacar]

1934/35 had the Stewart Warner breaking system.  The foot pedal was connected to a clutch assembly at the rear of the transmission.  When you pushed the pedal, the clutch, which was connected to mechanical brakes, used the momentum of the car to activate brakes.  At walking speed they can be scary, as the car will coast slightly before brakes activate.  At speed, combined with large brake surface area, they’re fantastic brakes.

 

The 36-38 used a vacuum system to actuate brakes, also mechanical.

 

Interesting that Pierce never used hydraulics in the cars, but did in trailers.

 

The Pierce Travelodge trailer also used a vacuum system, tied to vacuum from car, and actuating a master cylinder in trailer to the two hydraulic brakes.

Edited March 6, 2021 by trimacar (see edit history)

[edinmass]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:49 PM, Cadillac Fan said:

Serious question:   How much cheaper is an 8?

 

SORRY FOR THE DELAY.......The eight is much less difficult to work with than the twelve. It's no different than a Packard or Cadillac .

[John_Mereness]

On 3/5/2021 at 11:11 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

Challenge accepted:

 

Yeah, that is right up there with expensive as expensive comes !!!

[John_Mereness]

On 3/5/2021 at 1:58 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Phantom III: twice the cylinders, three times the parts, 0 times the service manuals.

If yours Matt, you need to beat yourself senseless in another way - bail, bail, and bail even more quickly.  And, yes I have seen one being totally restored (and stopped in every couple weeks) - and saw enough. 

[edinmass]

The auction finished.....at 20k. I think it’s exactly what it’s worth. Now..........want to enjoy it? How much to have a sorted driver? Best guess at a shop.......35k or more. Done in the garage at home? 15k in parts and supplies. And 350 hours labor.......IF and that’s a BIG IF, you know what you are doing. With luck, it’s going to a good home. 

[JACK M]

The seller is based out of my home town here, never met him but have spoken on the phone a couple of times.

He doesn't have any inventory here from what I can gather. He brokers cars and has had some pretty interesting stuff.