ImTawd Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Hi, I'm going to look at a 64 Riviera Super Wildcat in a little bit. Suppose to be all original, 82k miles. Anything I should be looking for as far as rust prone areas, or common issues? It has a spotlight on the drivers side. Is this a factory option? I found info online that shows that it could be a dealer add-on. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTawd Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 If you're in Calif I have all original 63, second owner, leather + more accessories, with all documents and only 25K original miles. If interested PM me at mdpresson@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTawd Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, DrP said: If you're in Calif I have all original 63, second owner, leather + more accessories, with all documents and only 25K original miles. If interested PM me at mdpresson@aol.com Yours is a Super Wildcat? What is your price on it? Don't really have time to email back and forth, will be making a decision on this one in a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 The spotlight is a dealer or aftermarket item. A Super Wildcat is a nice find. Check around the rear window for rust or evidence of water getting in the trunk. It is a very common problem area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTawd Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pat Curran said: The spotlight is a dealer or aftermarket item. A Super Wildcat is a nice find. Check around the rear window for rust or evidence of water getting in the trunk. It is a very common problem area. Exactly the type of info I'm looking for. Thank you, Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTawd Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Also curious, What would a fair price be for a 64 Super wildcat, 82k, a few chips in rust free original paint, with brown leather interior that is in excellent shape as well? Suppose to be all original. Unsure yet if it has AC or trunk popper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) Take a close look at the engine numbers. Make sure that it's a PRODUCTION CODE NUMBER - KX. K = 1964 and X= two four barrel carbs. The ENGINE SERIAL NUMBER should match the vin on the cowl. Located on the block behind the thermostat housing on the same plane as the valley cover. The picture is of a 1966 (M) 401 (T) If the numbers are not there, it's probably a clone. Dual snorkel chrome air cleaner, cast aluminum valve covers. Edited February 4, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Curran Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, ImTawd said: Also curious, What would a fair price be for a 64 Super wildcat, 82k, a few chips in rust free original paint, with brown leather interior that is in excellent shape as well? Suppose to be all original. Unsure yet if it has AC or trunk popper. It is hard to estimate a price without some detailed pictures. As an FYI, leather was not an option from the factory in 1964. It may be vinyl but if it is leather, it has been swapped out. As Ed mentions above, make sure it is a true Super Wildcat. If the serial number matches but it doesn't have a KX code, then someone swapped in the intake and dual carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 If you look at the Fisher Body data plate, you should realizevthatvthe option codes stamped into the plate represent only the options that were built into the car at the body plant. Options installed during final assembly do not appear on this plate. Therefore anything to do with the engine will NOT be on the data plate. On the Rivowners.org website, you can find a list of option codes that you find on the data plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTawd Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Great info, I will be sure to check the engine code, serial number match, and see if the seats are vinyl. Thanks alot for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Balzer Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I checked Hagerty but couldn't find a 64 Super Wildcat. The base Wildcat showed only a 401 w/ 1x 4bbl CURRENT & HISTORICAL VALUES View current vehicle values and see how they’ve changed over time in a 3-year, 5-year and to-date intervals. Compare these values to other vehicles and benchmark financial indices. Current Values #1 Concours$29,800 Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours." #2 Excellent$18,000 #3 Good$11,700 #4 Fair$4,800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaxMan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Craig, that is the information for the 1964 Buick Wildcat. He is going to look at a 1964 Buick Riviera with a supposed Super Wildcat engine. Hagerty shows the base 64 Riviera (without the Super Wildcat) at #1 $45,900 #2 $32,100 #3 $20,100 #4 $9,900 It should be noted that Hagerty is just one view on value. Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 The "Super Wildcat" option (Code A8) was available in any full sized Buck in 1964. My friend Ben had a 1964 Electra 225 4 door hardtop with the Super Wildcat engine in it, all numbers matching. We could not find one single option for 1964 that this car did not have on it. I bet the salesman had fun checking off the items on the wholesale order form for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, RivNut said: Take a close look at the engine numbers. Make sure that it's a PRODUCTION CODE NUMBER - KX. K = 1964 and X= two four barrel carbs. The ENGINE SERIAL NUMBER should match the vin on the cowl. Located on the block behind the thermostat housing on the same plane as the valley cover. The picture is of a 1966 (M) 401 (T) If the numbers are not there, it's probably a clone. Dual snorkel chrome air cleaner, cast aluminum valve covers. Hi, Here's a better picture of the engine number. First one is serial number. Second is engine code. I think this correct. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, awk409ak said: Hi, Here's a better picture of the engine number. First one is serial number. Second is engine code. I think this correct. Art Great pictures Edited February 4, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTawd Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) Ok I checked it out. Engine serial matches the car. And the KX looks just like the picture posted above, only the K and X are spaced about 1.5" away from each other, but are upside down looking from the front, just as the pic above. Only issue I could find, is its been repainted. There are some very small chips that are under the paint. It has AC, interior is in excellent shape, and the trunk area looks brand new. It hasnt been started in quite some time, but the guy says with gas it will start and runs great. Im a dummy, I forgot to take a picture of the trim tag to see what/if that is the factory color. Interior looks to be original, and is the brown vinyl. Just a ballpark figure, what do you guys think it should be worth, being an actual SUPER, but having been repainted with some flaws. No noticable rust that I could find. Thanks for the help. Edited February 5, 2021 by ImTawd (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnulfo de l.a. Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Being he has obo offer 15000. If everything is as you describe i think even 20000 is a fair price, but in the end , the car is worth whatever you are willing to pay for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Look for rust in rear quarters , floor pans beneath seat and foot pan, trunk near wheel wells and rockers . I sold a very nice complete KX 425 6 months ago for $10,500. The KX engine is actually more rare than the 65 LX IMO . Good luck KReed ROA 14549 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 If you went to the car, looked at it, and are still asking about buying it another car may be what you want. When I see a car I really want I buy it. I get excited about owning it and worried someone is going to get it. If I walk away "to think it over", especially to ask others about it, I know I am not that hot on it. Back in the late 1980's I looked at a stunning red Mustang GT 5 speed on a Saturday. The miles were a little high and I offered to pay proportionally what would be the $15,000 suggested to offer on this Riviera. They turned me down. Sunday the lot was closed but I looked at it again and decided to pay the asking price. All day at work on Monday I was anxious to get there and close the deal. That afternoon when I arrived the car was gone. They sold it. That was a $4200 car I offered $3600 for. 30 years later that memory still comes to mind every time I look at a car. How would you like a memory like that to carry around for the rest of your life? Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jframe Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Why not get it running first, before you try to sell it? IF all it needs is gas, why not get some in it, and get it going so prospective buyers can not only check it out further, but I would imagine a running car will bring closer to the asking price. KX or not, study it carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 A 65 Gran Sport seems to carry a lot of extra value by just carrying the name. While you're looking, see what's out there in the way of a 65 GS. In the long run, it might be a better investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImTawd Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 great info/advice. Thank you all for the help. I don't think its the right fit for me. I will keep it on the back burner, while I keep my eyes out for something else. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, ImTawd said: I don't think its the right fit for me. I know guys who have married their second best girlfriend. Not that much different. If you are planning on the long term wait for the one that sets you on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) I could say, "You will know the one when you see it", but then I would be fibbing.😁 I started looking 3/4 the way through 2018 for a 65GS. Saw many online, but also a lot of scams. Almost got into one up in Seattle, but when I finally said I was going to fly out there to see it I never heard back, then my son saw the car on another site. The guy I was speaking with was using the pictures of someone else's car that was just sold for 50K, he was trying sell this car 17K. Anyhow after looking 6-9 months found the one I have now. This is where I say you need to have your priorities listed of what you would accept. You also may have a dollar amount too (budget). My budget was not high enough for a nice 65 GS. I DID NOT get a 65 GS, but what I would say a pretty good option 64 Riviera, that met my requirements. My priorities were: 425 (Super Wildcat engine), AC, low miles, color open, but not white or beige, deluxe interior (better vinyl) and nicer interior trim. Other option may be included even though you are not looking for them. Most of the time I think if the car has the major option it will have the other less important options (MHO). If your budget is high enough or open then the more power to you, Go for the BEST. I love the 65 GS, but I enjoy my 64 Riviera too. Just my thoughts, Art Edited February 5, 2021 by awk409ak (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just to let everyone know the '64's were faster than most '65's, IF they were running correctly, including the GS, because they were lighter in weight & other facters that come into play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64Rivvy Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 iMO that price is way too high for a car that is not running. Way too many unknowns and my guess is there's a reason it's not running. My advice is once you get to 15k and above on these cars they should be pretty good runners with most mechanicals worked out. Under 10k you should be expecting work proportional to the amount you pay for it. If you're willing to pay around 15 to 20k you should be able to find a pretty nice running car where someone else had already done most of the heavy lifting already and what's left is mostly cosmetic work remaining like paint, re-chrome, interior work etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 7 hours ago, telriv said: Just to let everyone know the '64's were faster than most '65's But, but, '65s had the switch-pitch!😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 15 hours ago, 64Rivvy said: If you're willing to pay around 15 to 20k you should be able to find a pretty nice running car where someone else had already done most of the heavy lifting already and what's left is mostly cosmetic work remaining like paint, re-chrome, interior work etc. That sounds logical, but cosmetics sell cars. On most cars prepped for sale the money goes into pretty. I am a mechanic and my cars will go anywhere, but you can always find cosmetic flaws without looking hard. The body guys I know have great looking cars but they are a little skanky underneath. It takes quite a combination of skills to do mechanical, paint, and upholstery to hold up under collector car scrutiny. Just as ten major body panels work together for a nice paint job, most mechanical work involves interrelated systems. You can't do just one wheel on a brake job or rering and engine without addressing the whole engine. The car that appears to need nothing can be hiding a lot of inferior skill sets. The car that needs everything is a monumental amount of work. A good search option is to joint the marque club and see who has the good looking car and attends a lot of events. Even watching the regulars at cruise nights when they resume is a good way to look. Another preference that I have is to buy a really nice 15-20 year old car that has something special and go old with it. The first time I did that was 42 years ago. The last time was 3 years ago. And there are two in between. Sit down and think out your motivation for owning an old car so you have a clear idea of your expectations and how they match your skills or the skills you would like to learn. Really thinking it out may surprise you. That little picture of me at next to the post is me at 16 years old. In my instance the hobby has been continuous since that camera button was pushed. I am just doing the same thing I always have done. Another person may be completely the opposite. That is what has much bearing on the purchase, Especially on the advice side. On the Riviera in question, some have called this list of questions "holding your hand" but they will give insight into your potential purchase. Car Sale Questions 1. Do you own the car and have legal proof? 2 Is the paperwork clear and free of liens, unbranded? 3. How long have you owned the car? 4. Is the car currently licensed and insured? 5. Can it be driven on the road, legally, today? 6 Is the car in storage? If so, how long has it been stored? 7. How many miles did you drive it during the last 12 months? 8. Have you done any major work on the car since you have owned it? 9. What and when was the most recent service or repair? 10. If you decided to keep the car what improvement would you consider important? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 '64's had a higher stall speed built into the converter. So a switch pitch was not that advantagious. The main thing a switch pitch was built for was to have a smoother running engine at idle. The plus to that was at low stall, cruising, it was in the area of 1500RPM's or so which should have translated into better MPG because of less slippage. My '64's stall speed is approx. 1800-1900RPM's with 3.07 gears in the rear. With 3.90's, for some reason, it was closer to 2000+RPM's. This is the trans. in my car NOW which has NEVER been out or apart other than my mods to the valve body for better/tighter shifts & fluid & filter changes. Which now has over 300K on it. Tom T. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, telriv said: '64's had a higher stall speed built into the converter. So a switch pitch was not that advantagious. The main thing a switch pitch was built for was to have a smoother running engine at idle. The plus to that was at low stall, cruising, it was in the area of 1500RPM's or so which should have translated into better MPG because of less slippage. My '64's stall speed is approx. 1800-1900RPM's with 3.07 gears in the rear. With 3.90's, for some reason, it was closer to 2000+RPM's. This is the trans. in my car NOW which has NEVER been out or apart other than my mods to the valve body for better/tighter shifts & fluid & filter changes. Which now has over 300K on it. Tom T. I think it's interesting that most folks now consider the "switch pitch" function of the 65 - 67 ST400 transmissions as a performance feature when it was actually designed for the application you stated. If guys were truly interested in performance, they would install the variable pitch converter from the ST300 transmission into their ST400. You have to ask yourself this. "If Buick were truly interested in using the variable pitch transmission as a performance feature, why didn't they put it into the 1970 GSX with its 455 - sometimes known as the 'Hemi Killer.' " (Google it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 One of the main reasons was $$$$$. I know someone that I'm sure ALL or MOST are familiar with. On his '70/455 built engine he was using a varible switch converter which was the 300 converter at 12" in diameter rebuilt moded for his car/engine combo. Between the switch pitch & the one he had built EXPRESSLY for his engine/car combo it was FASTER than the switch pitch by a few tenths & MPH because of less slippage in the converter. You would be surprised of the benefits of a GOOD converter & I'm NOT talking about one that ANYONE can readily buy off the shelf at various locations. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is that it's built for your car & engine combo. NO downsides. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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