Bilstein shocks for 1st Gen

[RivNut]

Andrew,

 

Where did you get the 2/3 - 1/3 figures?  The H2 option could be had on any Riviera.  So how many non-Gran Sport Rivieras are equipped with the H2 option?  "Inquiring minds want to know!"

 

Ed 

[psychostang]

It was either on the ROA website, about the GS or on Team Buick website.  If I remember correctly, it was an approximation.

[XframeFX]

I am perplexed on Bilstein part numbers for the rear on 1st gen. Rivs?

R55R410 from George or 55-R102? They both have the same mounts. The latter for a Toyota Pickup?

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Riviera63]

55 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

I am perplexed on Bilstein part numbers for the rear on 1st gen. Rivs?

R55R410 from George or 55-R102? They both have the same mounts. The latter for a Toyota Pickup?

 

 

 

John,

 

The rears are 55-R410 and fronts are 55-R101. 

 

Bill

 

 

[XframeFX]

TX Bill,

I am aware of the front P/N. Wondering about the rear (my image of 55-R102 on the rear of a '64 Riviera).

The lower sticker shows RCD website. So checking just now, the same 55-R101 for the front but now a 3rd P/N for the rear - 55-R216?

http://racecardynamics.com/classics/183-1963-1965-riviera-rear-shocks-part-no-55-r216.html

 

I never return any purchases with my cross-border shopping and many have not been successful. So, I want to get it right.

I'm going with P/N: 55-R410 as you have indicated.

Thank-You for following-up!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Riviera63]

13 hours ago, XframeFX said:

TX Bill,

I am aware of the front P/N. Wondering about the rear (my image of 55-R102 on the rear of a '64 Riviera).

The lower sticker shows RCD website. So checking just now, the same 55-R101 for the front but now a 3rd P/N for the rear - 55-R216?

http://racecardynamics.com/classics/183-1963-1965-riviera-rear-shocks-part-no-55-r216.html

 

I never return any purchases with my cross-border shopping and many have not been successful. So, I want to get it right.

I'm going with P/N: 55-R410 as you have indicated.

Thank-You for following-up!

 

 

 

 

 

Hi John,

 

I had to do a little digging in my notes. Just a little bit of follow-up. The 55-R102 rear shocks are shorter than the 55-R410. They are for "lowered" Rivieras. I know they have been used on stock height Rivieras. I talked to George Hussey personally on the phone about this. He did not recommend using them on stock height cars. I thought I would throw this out there to you as I don't know the height situation with your car. 

 

I put the Bilsteins on my car a couple of years ago along with a beefier front sway bar and Tom T's rear sway bar. What a difference in ride and handling quality. The Riviera rode and drove better than any other classic car I had owned but, these improvements took it to another level.

 

Bill

[XframeFX]

4 hours ago, Riviera63 said:

What a difference in ride and handling quality.

My goal exactly. Original in appearance but more pleasurable to drive. Then there's the ST400 swap that keeps getting pushed back.

Thanks for sharing.

[RivNut]

57 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

My goal exactly. Original in appearance but more pleasurable to drive. Then there's the ST400 swap that keeps getting pushed back.

Thanks for sharing.

If you’re thinking of replacing a Dynaflow with an ST400, you might consider moving up to a later model 460L overdrive transmission.  Russ Martin makes the adapter.  Not a great picture but yo get the idea.

 

 

[XframeFX]

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

If you’re thinking of replacing a Dynaflow with an ST400, you might consider moving up to a later model 460L overdrive transmission.

As enticing as a bolt-on bellhousing is, I ruled out an OD transmission after re-starting my Riv project in 2016. The 4L-60E doesn't have the TV cable as the 700R4 but it has the same 3.16:1 1st gear that a torquey nailhead doesn't need. I haven't tried a nailhead/4L60E combo but the 700R4 wasn't ideal on a SBC. I sold the 700R4 after discovering  Russ's bellhousing for the 4L60 but still don't want to go there. Don't need OD for what my Riv sees for miles. Rather mount larger wheels in the rear for road trips of which I have no plans.

I've had many TH-400s and happy with them all despite high parasitic losses. Again, too few miles to really matter. An ST400 in my '63 would be in keeping with the '65 Riviera of the same generation and 12" switch pitch to boot!

[RivNut]

I have an adapter, a 200-4R, and a 3.91 or 3.23 gear set besides the stock 3.07 that would give me all sorts of choices.  The 200-4r / 3.07 would be the same as my ST400 (64 - no switch pitch) that I'm now getting around town but would give me a nice drop on the highway for cruising (2.05 final drive). Or with the 3.91, I'd have a hole shot 1st gear and a 2.62 final drive.  I could set it up so that the lock up occurred at what ever RPM I desired.  All sorts of choices, but that will require more time, talent, and treasure.  I can seem to only come up with two of the three at any time. 😎

[psychostang]

Ed, what type adapter are you using for the 2004R.  I was going to use Russ' adapter plate with the 4l60 bellhousing.  Unfortunately he decided to not continue with it January of 2021.  This was after I waited 10.5 months go get one.  

[BulldogDriver]

Are you sure about Russ not having the 4L60E adapter? Still shows on his site and he has mentioned it to people in other posts recently.

 

Ray

[psychostang]

Sorry, more specificaly is that he had a adapter plate, to install on to the 2004R trans. This would enable the use of the 4li60 adapter bellhousing.  With a specific torque converter from Hughes performance, made for a nice clean installation.

[RivNut]

Russ’ adapter looks more like a bell housing to me and it only bolts to the 460 trans tha is a two piec unit.  Some time ago, I bought an adapter from Eelco in Oregon.  Eelco was making intakes and other cast parts for nailheads but he just sort of disappeared.  My adapter is probably an inch thick.  It bolts to the nailhead bellhousing and the trans bolts to it.  But because the nailhead has a bellhousing cast into it, spacing becomes a problem.  Russ’ bellhousing eliminates this space problem.  I have to run my original flywheel for the starter ring, bolt a hub to it, then bolt a torque plate to the hub, then bolt the torque converter to the torque plate.  Bendstens was making similar adapters but they’ve disappeared too.  Russ shows some Bendsten stlyle adapters on his site.  The Bendsten style will bolt any Chevy transmission to a nailhead. My 200-4R has a dual, Chevy/BOP bell housing so I can use any BPO or Chevy transmission.

[RivNut]

12 minutes ago, psychostang said:

Sorry, more specificaly is that he had a adapter plate, to install on to the 2004R trans. This would enable the use of the 4li60 adapter bellhousing.  With a specific torque converter from Hughes performance, made for a nice clean installation.

I think Russ’ bellhousing adapter works only with specific newer two piece 460L transmissions, but not with the older 700-R4 (460L when it became electronic) or the 200-4R.  I chose the 200-4R because of size (no need to massage the floor pans) and it doesn’t require a computer to operate, just a TV (throttle valve) cable connected to the carburetor.  I’ll try to post some pictures of an installation using the same parts as I have if I can get my old desktop to boot.  Or Google “Dave Gee 1965 Buick Riviera” and look see if his by step installation on his FB page is still around.

Edited July 4, 2022 by RivNut (see edit history)

[psychostang]

Ed, that's what made this plate so awesome.  You simply cut the 2004R bellhousing off and install the plate.  Then install his Wildcat bellhousing and presto.  You have a nice clean installation.

[RivNut]

16 minutes ago, psychostang said:

Ed, that's what made this plate so awesome.  You simply cut the 2004R bellhousing off and install the plate.  Then install his Wildcat bellhousing and presto.  You have a nice clean installation.

Why cut up a perfectly good transmission? You’re off a quarter of an inch then what?

[RivNut]

https://www.facebook.com/1965-Buick-Riviera-149461030162/photos
 

Scroll through these until you find a picture of the adapter plate ( about an inch thick) an all of the other pictures that go with the transmission swap. They’re not in chronological order.  But you’ll get the idea.

[RivNut]

Maybe these pictures will help. (It’s been a looooooong time since I heard of anyone cutting a 200-4R)

 

This later model two piece transmission

is unbolted and connected to this bellhousing /adapter - from Russ Martin at Centerville.

 

 

OR 

This style transmission - 700-R4 or 200-4R

 

is bolted to the nailhead using this type adapter plate 

 

 

 

This is to replace the 64 - 66 ST400.
The thick hub sits on the original flexplate w/ starter ring and both are held in pace with the long bolts.  

The adapter plate is bolted to the block.  
The triangular torque plate is bolted to the hub.  

Then the converter is bolted to the torque plate.

Finally the transmission is bolted to the adapter plate.  

Really pretty simple because these older overdrive transmissions do not require a computer to operate.

 

If you’re replacing a Dynaflow, the parts are a little different but work on the same principle. The difference is basically the end of the crankshaft which requires a different hub.

 

 

[XframeFX]

48 minutes ago, psychostang said:

more specificaly is that he had a adapter plate, to install on to the 2004R trans. This would enable the use of the 4li60 adapter bellhousing.  With a specific torque converter from Hughes performance, made for a nice clean installation.

The TH200-4R is a nice transmission with all sorts of components available to handle more torque for 400+ cu in engines.

 

Need to be careful lining-up the whole driveline to the crankshaft Pilot Hole. Not just the snout of the Torque Converter when using adapters.

 

Russ's bellhousing for the 4L60E is the-way-to-go, but for the transmission I do not want.

 

I have not tried any OD swaps so I am still learning.

 

With sources for Adapters disappearing, I'll stick with OE transmissions and as few adapters as possible thank-you. Russ Martin's Flexplate and Hub Adapter should be a sure thing for the ST400 on my '63.

[71GS]

Just thought I’d add, I installed a set from George over the winter and cannot recommend the Bilsteins enough. Huge improvement in ride and overall drivability. 

[XframeFX]

31 minutes ago, 71GS said:

I installed a set from George over the winter and cannot recommend the Bilsteins enough.

Testimonial enough, I want them!

[71GS]

On 7/6/2022 at 11:54 PM, XframeFX said:

Testimonial enough, I want them!

They’ really that good. 

[dr914]

we have plenty of bilstein shock sets and the so called GS springs.  The setup makes a dramatic difference in the handling and ride.  This comes from a guy who thought his Dad's Riviera handled great when he first got his license in 1966 (my Dad would only let me drive the car once in a while when he was in the passenger seat!) then years later got heavily into Porsche.  I finally got my Dad's car and wondered why it was so mushy on the road.  The Bilsteins and GS springs took car of that problem, then the quick ratio steering box. All we need now is some side support on the seat and some disc brakes and we will all have great riding and handling Rivs.

[60FlatTop]

I have been reading this with interest. My chassis has been gone through thoroughly. Like from here:

 

It was done with all OEM parts and DELCO Pleasurizer shocks. Finished it drives as a middle aged professional person would expect a $4.000- $5,000 car to drive and handle as purchased. I bought this one:

 

I was 16 in 1966 when I bought my first "costly" car, a 1960 Buick Invicta. It was smooth and quiet, as I expect. The Riviera was 15 years old when I bought it. When I pulled the frame out for deep service most of the rubber was shot. The front lower inner control arm bushings were bad. Most of the body mounts were crushed to less than 1/3 of their height.  The web of the rear track bar was torn. I also knew from experience that many suspension parts are installed incorrectly even though new. I probably took more care in fitment and tightening than the assembly line. With a 117" wheelbase even thought the car is heavy it is a small car by my standards. That banker in 1964 and I are both happy with a Riviera in stock form. I prefer not to "stiffen it up".

I think back in my formative years I read a description of how a proper Bentley should drive, probably written by Ian Fleming. That was about 25 years before my Riviera but I have been able to keep the flavor.

[XframeFX]

5 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I have been reading this with interest. My chassis has been gone through thoroughly.

I've done nothing with my chassis except for changing out to polyurethane bushings in the track bar last summer. A big improvement. I do want to go further, so Bilsteins are next. Probably SEARS Shocks on it right now.

Thing is, suspension/steering components are all reversible. I need to learn more on GS springs.

Is there any end to this? I'll never get to that ST400 swap.

[Wayne R]

I thought i would  let  Buick owners here know, although  i have never fitted Bilsteins to  my Buicks over the years,

They are the best brand  that  Porsche and Mercedes members fit there  classics ,including my self, with those  classics.

regards.-----infact  i did not  even know   were available for Buick.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Wayne R (see edit history)

[Donzi Dan]

I'm putting 2" drop springs from Coil Spring Specialties with 20% increased spring rate on the front and rear on my 1964 project. This should give me a similar ride to the H2 package but an additional inch lower.

 

Going through this and many other threads I find a bit of conflicting information regarding the correct Bilstein part numbers. Can someone clarify this? What are the front and rear Bilstein part numbers for standard height and with 2" drop springs?

 

I tried to research this on Bilsteins website but none of the listed part numbers are found??

[Riviera63]

1 hour ago, Donzi Dan said:

I'm putting 2" drop springs from Coil Spring Specialties with 20% increased spring rate on the front and rear on my 1964 project. This should give me a similar ride to the H2 package but an additional inch lower.

 

Going through this and many other threads I find a bit of conflicting information regarding the correct Bilstein part numbers. Can someone clarify this? What are the front and rear Bilstein part numbers for standard height and with 2" drop springs?

 

I tried to research this on Bilsteins website but none of the listed part numbers are found??

Bilstein makes the shocks for our 1st generation but, does not sell them so to speak. You have to buy them from a distributor which in this case is George Hussey. He advertises in the Riview. dr914 is his handle on the Forum. He is the one that persuaded Bilstein to make them for our 1st generation cars. Tom Telesco (telriv) also sells them but, I believe he buys them from George. 

 

As stated earlier in the thread 55-R101 are the fronts and 55-410 are the rears for standard height cars. The 55-R102 are rears for "lowered" Rivieras. I do not know if a version for lowered cars is made for the front. I would call George and talk to him about the different shocks available. I talked to him when I bought shocks for my 1963 and he was very helpful.

 

Bill

 

 

[dr914]

you hit that on the money Bill

 

[XframeFX]

George, your Bilsteins have quite a reputation.

I plan on ordering a set this winter even though I'm "Done" with major expendatures on this project.

Bilstein shock absorbers will give the biggest bang for my Canadian dollar. One of the worst was having the '63s power brake booster rebuilt.

 

[arnulfo de l.a.]

16 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

George, your Bilsteins have quite a reputation.

I plan on ordering a set this winter even though I'm "Done" with major expendatures on this project.

Bilstein shock absorbers will give the biggest bang for my Canadian dollar. One of the worst was having the '63s power brake booster rebuilt.

 

Who rebuilt your booster?

[XframeFX]

4 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Who rebuilt your booster?

 Not Booster Dewey. It was done by a small shop in Hamilton Ontario. Turns out there were 2 reputable shops minutes from home.

 

It was partly my fault. I had the Hamilton shop re-sleeve the master cylinder as well. I forgot to mention DOT 5 brake fluid. He tested the rebuild with DOT 3. My inspection revealed no rust in the bore but, not according to the shop.

Always ask if quote includes plating. Mine was only painted but for the price should've been gold plated.

My 1963 power booster with reserve dimpled vacuum canister still does not have reserve pumps after shut down.

Live and Learn.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

I put Bilstein shocks on my 63. Addco sway bars front and back. New Coil Spring Specialty stock springs all around. I have 2 sets of tires and wheels. As far as wheels and tires are concerned the ride is the same - lively. I dont mean bounce or float ride feel. The ride I have lets you feel quite a bit of the road. In addition, the combo of replacement suspension with the rebuilt steering box the steering is great. The steering is characteristic of taught steering you feel the road real good. 

[BrianM]

Not to hijack a thread but does anyone know a source or part numbers for shocks for my 1970 2nd gen? To date I have only found monroe and gabriel budget shocks or $400 each custom shocks for 2nd Gens. Bilsteins would be nice.