shims or inserts

[Rod L]

Does the 1928 Buick standard 6 use shims or inserts, I am particularly interesed in the mains as I think I'm hearing a thud-thud-thud dull knock.

 

Rod

[Larry Schramm]

2 hours ago, loftbed said:

Does the 1928 Buick standard 6 use shims or inserts, I am particularly interesed in the mains as I think I'm hearing a thud-thud-thud dull knock.

 

Rod

 

 

I trust you mean does the car have babbitt bearings with shims or insert bearings. With a 90 year old car my best recommendation would be to pull the pan and see what  you have.  Even some cars with insert bearings might have had some shims under the insert to "tighten up" the bearing for clearances or have the rod cap filed to accomplish the same thing.  Ask me how I know.

 

Some cars might have started out with babbitt bearings and changed over to insert bearings sometime in the cars lifetime.  A '28 is too new a car for me to be sure, but I think it has babbitt bearings. 

[gdmn852]

Hello ,the first use of inserts on Buick’s was the 1949 models on both the connecting rods and mains.Hopefully your car still has some shims that can be removed on the bearings to decrease clearance and eliminate the noise. This was a common procedure when these car were in every day use , that is removing shims to tighten bearings.Check Buick or era appropriate repair manual as to how this is done.Hope this helped.

[gdmn852]

Also, attractive car well worth spending time and resources on, seems today too many cars of this era have been cobbled up.Nice to see an original part of history. Gary.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

gdmn852, you are correct on 1949 for first ROD bearing inserts.   Mains began sometime late 30's , I believe.

 

  Ben

[Rod L]

Thanks to all for the responses. I'm not sure I want to attempt pulling the pan and checking for shims? It sounds to me like an issue with the main bearings, so I'll take it to a local shop that has done some of this work.

 

Rod

[ply33]

15 hours ago, gdmn852 said:

Hello ,the first use of inserts on Buick’s was the 1949 models on both the connecting rods and mains. . . .

 

Wow! That late? My low end '33 came from the factory with thin shell inserts on rods and mains.

[gdmn852]

4 hours ago, ply33 said:

 

Wow! That late? My low end '33 came from the factory with thin shell inserts on rods and mains.

Chrysler products always seem to have advancement overall like hydraulic brakes, electrical Wipers ,heater system that works.over GM and Ford.and of course the Airflow. 

[60FlatTop]

Once you drain the oil the pan is just an inspection cover.

[Rod L]

On 8/14/2020 at 6:33 AM, 60FlatTop said:

Once you drain the oil the pan is just an inspection cover.

Ok, say I drop the inspection cover? How do I determine which bearing is the suspect? Then if the shims are present do i just remove them until the thumping stops? Seems like there is probably a more technical way of doing this? Any suggestions on a good book that would cover this?

 

Rod

 

PS. I've done a lot of different repairs on a lot of different cars, but I'm not much into internals on an engine.

[Rod L]

Ok, I have ordered this book, did I do good?

bishko automotive literature 1927 1928 Buick Standard Six Shop Service Repair Manual Book Engine Electrical

[old-tank]

4 hours ago, loftbed said:

Ok, say I drop the inspection cover? How do I determine which bearing is the suspect? Then if the shims are present do i just remove them until the thumping stops? Seems like there is probably a more technical way of doing this? Any suggestions on a good book that would cover this?

 

Rod

 

PS. I've done a lot of different repairs on a lot of different cars, but I'm not much into internals on an engine.

Plastigauge

[Oldtech]

Well, to try and keep it simple if the mains are loose enough to thump you should be able to find it with a prybar and a block so that you can lift on the crankshaft.  Suspect the rear one as it supports the most having the clutch and flywheel there. however they will all need tightening up. It's a bit of a tedious process to do it in the car but it can be done.  Rods can be checked easier. 

 Just to muddy the debate on first use of shells, the 17 D-35 had removal TOP shells on the mains, with Babbitt caps.  I don't know in the sixes. 

[Jack Worstell]

I've always been a bit confused on the subject of when Buick went to insert

bearings on the mains and on the rods

 

I'm pretty sure that the rods went from babbit to modern precision insert sometime in 1949

( so 1949s had babbit and 1950s had insert rod bearings ???)

 

But the mains...I think this did in fact happen in the late 1930s....but these

inserts were not the modern precision type...ie     they still used shims.

And in 1949 the change was  further made to modern precision inserts...no shims needed.

 

Do I have this right ??

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Jack, I will try.

 

  I believe, but have been unable to confirm, that 1937 was the changeover year for mains. I have never heard about shims on mains with inserts.  Interesting.

 Rod bearing change over was 1949.  I heard/read somewhere that the first 5000 [?] were poured.  Probably leftover.  I have never seen one nor known a person that has seen one.

 

  If someone can locate documentation and post, that would be awesome.

 

  Ben

[DonMicheletti]

On my '38 Roadmaster, the mains are inserts and are shimmed.  Rods poured with shims

[Robert Engle]

I think we need to add a third term for Buick bearings.  The early cars had poured babbit bearings as part of the caps.  They were shimmed to allow adjustment for wear.  At some point, The main bearings were switched to and insert that was quite thick and had poured babbit and had shims to account for wear.  Rods stayed with babbit poured into the rod, no inserts.  By the 50's, rods and mains all had thin shell  bearings and were replaceable with thicker inserts  to accommodate for wear, no more shims.  Of course on some rebuilds, old engines were converted to thin shell inserts.  I personally like the poured babbit bearings as they are more forgiving for foreign bodies in the oil.  

 

In the late 60's I was in the Navy in the engine room of an aircraft carrier.  I can remember removing 30" diameter poured babbit main shaft bearings.  We would pour them in the machine shop, Blue them, set on the line shaft then remove and scrape the high spots.  it took hours of scraping to get them right. The bearing halves weighed about 300 pounds.  

 

The photo shows a junker 32 50 series with the thick inserts.

 

Bob Engle

[critterpainter]

On the main bearings they are bronze backings that are staked into place on the aluminum crankcase.  The bearings are poured into the bronze and the crankcase is align bored to fit the crankshaft.  This is NOT a simple operation.  You should have shims in place from the factory IIRC.     I rebuilt a 1928 Master 20 years ago.