Steve Rinaldo Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I just out found out that the engine block in my 1909 Model A Maxwell engine has a non=repairable crack. My question is are 2-cyl. Maxwell engines interchangeable? Does anyone have or have any leads on where I might find one? Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Hi Steve - just a couple of questions to get the ball rolling here and hopefully someone else will jump in. . Have you had the engine running and if so have you driven it for awhile or just on trial runs? Where is the crack located ? Metal can be welded or stitched, cylinders can be sleeved, etc. Old two or even four cylinder engines with gravity water systems are pretty forgiving. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Steve Rinaldo said: I just out found out that the engine block in my 1909 Model A Maxwell engine has a non repairable crack. My question is are 2 cyl. Maxwell engines interchangeable? Does anyone have or have any leads on where I might find one. Thanks, Steve My question is WHO told you it's irreparable and there is more than one way to skin a cat. I dealt with enough unobtainium to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I agree.......it’s most likely repairable. Do NOT weld in the block. Get it stitched. Post detailed photos, and several of us here can make recommendations. Depending on location you may or may not need to rebuild the entire engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 MOST LIKELY WOULD BE MORE DIFF TO FIND A REPLACEMENT, THEN TO REPAIR. the jugs on these often crack and runs of the jugs have been made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rinaldo Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 To answer some of the questions posted here goes: 1. The part that is cracked is the crankcase. 2. The guys that are are two of the best in the country and I trust their recommendation for a new crankcase.ebuild 3. this is a fresh rebuild and the problem appeared on the initial test drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 My advice is do NOT 'throw it away' if it cannot be repaired at present. Welding/metal fusion technology keeps evolving, and sooner or later, someone will find a way to repair these 'impossible to weld' engine blocks. When we are seeing a three-figure or more difference on certain cars with 'matching number' engines, there is incentive out there to come up with the technology/technique to repair them. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Welding, Cast Iron Click photo for MORE Photos Antique & Classic Casting Rebuilders specializes in the "Fusion Welding" method in the repair of anything made of cast iron, including, (but not limited to) Cylinder heads Blocks Manifolds Transmission-rear end housings And More ... I have 50+ years of experience and do all of the work myself. I have total control of the process & quality I was in the diesel engine component reman industry for 30 years & the automotive cylinder head business for 13 years The first 10 years I was a welder so I got pretty good at it My story & pictures of my work are on my website: accastingrebuilders.com Contact: Click to Email Richard Geertsema Kelseyville, CA, (415) 269-5483 (866) 935-3227 BET THIS GUY CAN DO IT FOR YOU........................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rinaldo Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 The crankcase is an aluminum alloy so I don't know about welding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Steve, I agree that the old oil soaked cast aluminum alloys have been virtually impossible to weld. However, I also agree with others that it is worth saving until either adhesive technology or welding techniques become available to fix it. Meanwhile, I suggest you post your need on this HCCA site: https://hcca.org/classifieds.php?want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 The crankcase is an aluminum alloy so I don't know about welding? all it takes is a phone call...........or you could think about it for a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Steve Rinaldo said: To answer some of the questions posted here goes: 1. The part that is cracked is the crankcase. 2. The guys that are are two of the best in the country and I trust their recommendation for a new crankcase.ebuild 3. this is a fresh rebuild and the problem appeared on the initial test drive. Difficult problem......... can you post a photo of the area? Is it structural or just an oil leak? I am never a fan of a temporary fix or band aide. Sometimes on a very early car that won't be driven much, it is a good way to go till you can find a used engine.......its amazing way turns up over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Yes...aluminum is a problem. I have a welded aluminum crankcase in my shop right now. The car threw a rod and blew two or three major pieces out one side. Had I seen it at the time I would have pronounced it unrepairable. It was welded and the weld is actually very good but the attendant warping of the casting means that both the camshaft tunnel and the main bearings have to be rebored and oversize bearings made. It's a tremendous amount of work. That said, Edinmass has a lot of experience with metal stitching and has seem many "unrepairable" castings back into long service. Casting repair is a specialty in its own right and you owe it to yourself to have it looked at by someone who does that sort of work exclusively. There were two aluminum alloys in use at the time for crankcases. The weaker of the two is probably weldable, albeit with a lot of prep (like having the case vapor degreased). The stronger of the two, usually only used on very expensive cars, is effectively unweldable. I suspect this is the reason that Simplex crankcases and transmission cases are considered unrepairable when they crack. I don't know what alloy Maxwell used but it is likely it was the less expensive one. Metal stitching, if done by a really competent professional, is a much better alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) I wish I could post all the repairs I have done to major league cars......but trust me, no one who owns a multi million dollar car wants it in the public domain that the block of head has been repaired. I’m currently helping out on two eight figure cars that have crack issues. Interestingly both owners had “their guy” who could fix it fine.........now I’m involved and getting it done right......... When you car engine is made of us obtainium you need the best people in the world fixing it.....they don’t come cheap, but they are worth EVERY PENNY! PS- I don’t make the repairs, just supervise the best guys who can do the job. Edited January 2, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 This is not an uncommon problem in the early Maxwells. Networking with other owners will help and I'm sure you are investigating all options. As to your original question, there are some Maxwell experts out there who can respond to that, but my recommendation is to discuss the problem with Steve Bono in NY. You should be able to connect through HCCA but call me if you can't connect and I might be able to assist. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 11 hours ago, Steve Rinaldo said: The crankcase is an aluminum alloy so I don't know about welding? There are a lot of broken Bugatti aluminum crankcases running just fine with welded aluminum cases. Getting all the oil out of the pores is job one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 23 hours ago, Terry Bond said: This is not an uncommon problem in the early Maxwells. Networking with other owners will help and I'm sure you are investigating all options. As to your original question, there are some Maxwell experts out there who can respond to that, but my recommendation is to discuss the problem with Steve Bono in NY. You should be able to connect through HCCA but call me if you can't connect and I might be able to assist. Terry Steve, give me a call about a lead on an engine. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Let's see a photo of the issue - lots of knowledge here on this site and you will get the best answer eliminating speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) By the way, many brass era/early Franklins have had to have recast crankcases - I have seen a few that are really sketchy even after repair - fine for limited use, but that is about it and anyone passing them off to another person without mentioning - there is a special place for them to go upon their death. Edited January 5, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Sidenote: on regular occasion I stop into Zakira's garage in Cincinnati - they work on my horrendous whatever project at the moment and I see vintage Miller after Miller race engine go through the shop - and my impression is there were designed for exactly what they needed to do, but not for any more and not for any time - my point is that most have been welded and welded more to have continuing issues and reach a point where have to just have to be replaced. My second point is repair first, but do not rule out recasting - it will be expensive, but I guarantee a few other people will need and that will help offset cost (you may also find someone re-invented the wheel prior to you and already has the casting or at least the molds) matched to really setting you free to use the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just for those of us, like myself, totally unfamiliar, it probably looks something like this, horizontal opposed 2 cylinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 YES MIKE, THE JUGS COME OFF EACH SIDE AND ARE SLIGHTLY ASKEW FROM ONE ANOTHER. SIMILAR TO A bmw BOXER MOTORCYCLE ENGINE. THE ENGINE PUTS OUT ABOUT 14 HP. as mentioned, jugs have been reproduced in the past, but the main crankcase is a large undertaking and a run of say, 10 may never sell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I imagine a run of newly cast crankcases might well sell out. Steve Bono has a 2-cylinder REO whose crankcase broke one too many times. He looked at the cost of casting new ones and gulped pretty hard. Then he got the word out he might have some made, was anyone interested? He ended up having made, and selling, 23 crankcases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 so go for it oldcarrfudd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! could be a terrifc business deal. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 5 hours ago, oldcarfudd said: Steve Bono has a 2-cylinder REO Cher's brother-in-law? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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