1979 Estate Wagon, AC Blower and Carburetor Problems

[old-tank]

3 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

18 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 

 . The emission controls back then really played havoc with the muscle car scene eh?

 

Castrated comes to mind. 

My 76 Olds 455 was factory rated at 190hp/350 TQ (pathetic!) After rebuild with an "RV" cam from TRW (specs show only mild upgrade from stock) it really got woke up.

(some 455's from 68-70 had 400 hp and 500TQ)

A friend with the Olds 403 installed the same cam and it cam alive.  Later he installed Olds 350 heads (raised CR) from  a 1968 and it dyno'd nearly 400 hp (TQ unknown).

[SpecialEducation]

1 hour ago, old-tank said:

My 76 Olds 455 was factory rated at 190hp/350 TQ (pathetic!) After rebuild with an "RV" cam from TRW (specs show only mild upgrade from stock) it really got woke up.

(some 455's from 68-70 had 400 hp and 500TQ)

A friend with the Olds 403 installed the same cam and it cam alive.  Later he installed Olds 350 heads (raised CR) from  a 1968 and it dyno'd nearly 400 hp (TQ unknown).

 

 

That’s one of the great things about the Olds platform, you could stick a ‘68 455 cam from a 442 into an ‘85 307 if you wanted to (and the factory did!). 

 

The number 1 thing that woke up the Olds powered Buick I drove in high school was the installation of a “high flow catalytic converter” (a.k.a. “Test Pipe”). lol

[MrEarl]

On 6/19/2019 at 12:42 PM, old-tank said:

A friend with the Olds 403 installed the same cam and it cam alive.  Later he installed Olds 350 heads (raised CR) from  a 1968 and it dyno'd nearly 400 hp (TQ unknown).

 

 WOW Tha's more than double the hp!!! Did it live?  I remember driving a friends Trans Am back in the late 70's and that thing would brake loose spinning all over the road at half throttle. I guess that's why I'm thinkng "somethings" still not right with mine. I'm going to be working on the cooling concerns over the next couple weeks then look into the lack of power, perceived or real

[FLYER15015]

Hey Lamar,

You could do what all us straight 8 folks end up doing.

Put a big pancake fan up front on a toggle switch.

 

Saw in another thread that you sold "Buttercup" to a fellow in N.C.

Now what is Terry going to sit on next ?

 

Mike in Colorado

[avgwarhawk]

9 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 

 WOW Tha's more than double the hp!!! Did it live?  I remember driving a friends Trans Am back in the late 70's and that thing would brake loose spinning all over the road at half throttle. I guess that's why I'm thinkng "somethings" still not right with mine. I'm going to be working on the cooling concerns over the next couple weeks then look into the lack of power, perceived or real

 

The rear sheet metal and glass is very heavy in the rear of these wagons.    

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

11 hours ago, FLYER15015 said:

Hey Lamar,

You could do what all us straight 8 folks end up doing.

Put a big pancake fan up front on a toggle switch.

 

Saw in another thread that you sold "Buttercup" to a fellow in N.C.

Now what is Terry going to sit on next ?

 

Mike in Colorado

 

 Mike, I have the stock radiator and fan on mine. Radiator WAS re cored  in 2009. Stays at thermostat  [ 190 ] temp even with A/C on.   ONLY time it has overheated was returning from OKC last week, towing the teardrop and running the A/C.  Think I found the limit. 

 

  Still hoping to meet you someday.

 

  Ben

[MrEarl]

On 6/19/2019 at 12:42 PM, old-tank said:

A friend with the Olds 403 installed the same cam and it cam alive.  Later he installed Olds 350 heads (raised CR) from  a 1968 and it dyno'd nearly 400 hp (TQ unknown

 

Darn you @old-tank now you’ve got me spending even more time on Olds and Trans Am sites. 

[avgwarhawk]

Lamar,

 

One question, does the secondary on the 4 barrel function?    

[MrEarl]

On 6/19/2019 at 12:42 PM, old-tank said:

A friend with the Olds 403 installed the same cam and it cam alive.

 

It “cam” alive. Cute 😆

[MrEarl]

8 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

Lamar,

 

One question, does the secondary on the 4 barrel function?    

 

You know I’ve actually begun wondering about that and if it does does it open fully. My mechanic said he set timing ( I didn’t ask at what) and that he adjusted the carb some so one would assume he checked that @avgwarhawk) I’ll be looking into that more after I get overheating issues resolved. My simple brain can only handle one thing at a time. I’m even  having problems remembering which thread I posted what in. 🙄😟

Edited June 21, 2019 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[old-tank]

9 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

Lamar,

 

One question, does the secondary on the 4 barrel function?    

Or fully open?  Some were designed to that way.

[MrEarl]

3 minutes ago, old-tank said:

Or fully open?  Some were designed to that way.

 

Ive read that some Qjets don’t fully open but can be made to by bending the rod or something to that effect. 

[avgwarhawk]

47 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

 

You know I’ve actually begun wondering about that and if it does does it open fully. My mechanic said he set timing ( I didn’t ask at what) and that he adjusted the carb some so one would assume he checked that @avgwarhawk) I’ll be looking into that more after I get overheating issues resolved. My simple brain can only handle one thing at a time. I’m even  having problems remembering which thread I posted what in. 🙄😟

 

Maybe he did or didn't. The lack luster performance you are experiencing leads me to believe the secondary may not be working well if at all.  Down shift while at speed is one thing. Down shift(passing gear) at speed when secondary open should be quite good.         Remove the air cleaner housing. Start the engine and throttle it wide open.  You'll know it when the secondary open with the roar it produces.  Not to mention the small children that sucked in from the velocity of air.  

Edited June 21, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

 

Ive read that some Qjets don’t fully open but can be made to by bending the rod or something to that effect. 

 

 It is adjustable. Secondary air valve.   From my experience mine fully opened at WOT. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said:

 

       Remove the air cleaner housing. Start the engine and throttle it wide open.  You'll know it when the secondary open with the roar it produces.  Not to mention the small children that sucked in from the velocity of air.  

 

Along with gallons and gallons of high priced gasoline !

 

Mike in Colorado

[MrEarl]

Success, the Hi blower works again. Installed the NOS relay and nothing. Fiddled with all the wiring and connections, again, nothing. Shut the hood, got in her to take her for a ride and just for kicks flipped the switch to Hi and IT WORKED. Thank ya Jesus, thank ya Lord.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

8 hours ago, MrEarl said:

and just for kicks flipped the switch to Hi and IT WORKED. Thank ya Jesus, thank ya Lord.

 

AMEN!  lol... I told you to giggle the switch. 😃

[avgwarhawk]

Appears the relay needed a kick start from the Lord. It's cool now. 

[EmTee]

On 6/21/2019 at 12:15 PM, MrEarl said:

Ive read that some Qjets don’t fully open but can be made to by bending the rod or something to that effect. 

 

If the choke isn't opening fully (e.g.,  the choke pull-off diaphragm is bad) that will prevent the secondaries from opening.

[FLYER15015]

20 hours ago, EmTee said:

 

If the choke isn't opening fully (e.g.,  the choke pull-off diaphragm is bad) that will prevent the secondaries from opening.

 

 

OR, option #2, a manual choke cable (universal) on evilbay @ $8.94 w/ free shipping.

 

SO, how much is a choke pull off diaphragm from your friendly Buick dealer ?

 

AND, if it's NOS, will it be the same age as the one you pull off ?

 

Sounds like an invitation to saying lots of words, you can't type here.

 

Mike in Colorado

[Brad Conley]

Might I suggest a Quadrajet specialist?  I've used Mark Northcut at Quadrajet Power for 4 rebuilds so far.  https://quadrajetpower.com .  Great guy and a Buick owner!

Edited June 24, 2019 by Brad Conley (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

Me: Want to take the Buick to your eye doctor appointment this afternoon hon?

Rita: Sure, is the AC still working

Me: Of course, ice cold....

 

leaving the doctors office

Rita: I thought you said the AC was working!

Me: Where would you like to go out and eat tonight dear?

 

DANGIT!!!! Cranked her up, nothing coming out of the AC vents, nothing. Headed to dinner and thank goodness it came on in about a block but no Hi blower. Got home, put switch on HI, wiggle wires here, wiggle wires there....found it.

 

 

Will be cleaning up the electrical tape mess and contacts tomorrow. Is anybody familiar with this junction to know,  Is the clamp that holds this onto the head bolt possibly for ground?

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

25 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

Is the clamp that holds this onto the head bolt possibly for ground?

 

Does not look like a ground, just a way to keep that wire from falling onto a hot manifold. 

[Barney Eaton]

Looking at the window sticker.....that W85 Estate Wagon Limited Package ($1,853) was 18% of the $7,169 base price.    

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, MrEarl said:

Is the clamp that holds this onto the head bolt possibly for ground?

 

I doubt that's a ground connection; in fact, it's hard for me to think of a worse place to clamp a wire than to the hottest part of the head at the exhaust manifold junction... 

 

If it were mine, I'd be looking for an alternate (lower temperature) routing.

[MrEarl]

On 6/19/2019 at 12:42 PM, old-tank said:

My 76 Olds 455 was factory rated at 190hp/350 TQ (pathetic!) After rebuild with an "RV" cam from TRW (specs show only mild upgrade from stock) it really got woke up.

(some 455's from 68-70 had 400 hp and 500TQ)

A friend with the Olds 403 installed the same cam and it cam alive.  Later he installed Olds 350 heads (raised CR) from  a 1968 and it dyno'd nearly 400 hp (TQ unknown).

 

On 6/21/2019 at 8:57 AM, avgwarhawk said:

 

The rear sheet metal and glass is very heavy in the rear of these wagons.    

 

On 6/21/2019 at 12:00 PM, avgwarhawk said:

Lamar,

 

One question, does the secondary on the 4 barrel function?    

 

On 6/21/2019 at 12:23 PM, avgwarhawk said:

 

Maybe he did or didn't. The lack luster performance you are experiencing leads me to believe the secondary may not be working well if at all.  Down shift while at speed is one thing. Down shift(passing gear) at speed when secondary open should be quite good.         Remove the air cleaner housing. Start the engine and throttle it wide open.  You'll know it when the secondary open with the roar it produces.  Not to mention the small children that sucked in from the velocity of air.  

 

On 6/23/2019 at 9:52 PM, EmTee said:

 

If the choke isn't opening fully (e.g.,  the choke pull-off diaphragm is bad) that will prevent the secondaries from opening.

 

OK gang, over the last couple weeks I've been trying hard to determine just what's going on with the performance of this engine. The only thing predictable about it seems to be the unpredictability of it. I checked the secondaries sitting in the garage, running and not running, the bottoms open fully as well as the top with vacumm. But on the road it has no get up and go off the line and stumbles sometimes when being kicked. There's a STEEP hill in my neighborhood (some of you know it) and when I tried to pull it with trailer in tow from the bottom from a stand still I was wondering if it was going to make it to the top at about the midpoint. One day after stretching her legs hard and going through a lot of downshifting and dogging around it actually shut off when I kicked it at a green light. But at times coupling the QJet with the torque of the TH350 with the shift kit, it will snap your neck in all gears and does have a hell of a carb and tranny combined passing gear, if that makes sense.  I'm not trying to abuse the engine, just putting it through the tests to find it's good and bad habits. I've read pages of info and watched hours of Quadrajet videos and have learned a lot about this often misunderstood carburater which some claim to be the closest thing to fuel injection you can get.  This guy tells it like it is in his videos on the subject and I've learned a lot watching hours of them. I've watched most all of his Quadrajet series of how to videos, he has a high understanding and appreciation of the carb and speaks my language.

 

 

 

 

So considering all this I think I do need to be looking at a couple of options. Either send my carb out for rebuild or purchase a rebuilt. Either way I want it to be tuned to my performance needs of which is towing with decent gas mileage. I need someone who will stand behind the build and answer questions I may have and in laymans terms. I am leaning toward sending mine out as I know it to be correct and original to the car and is not damaged.

 

3 hours ago, Brad Conley said:

Might I suggest a Quadrajet specialist?  I've used Mark Northcut at Quadrajet Power for 4 rebuilds so far.  https://quadrajetpower.com .  Great guy and a Buick owner!

 

Thanks Brad, Mark is definitely on my list . Along with  these

 

https://cliffshighperformance.com/

 

http://www.everyday-performance.com/quadrajet_carburetors.htm#shop

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MrEarl]

39 minutes ago, EmTee said:

 

I doubt that's a ground connection; in fact, it's hard for me to think of a worse place to clamp a wire than to the hottest part of the head at the exhaust manifold junction... 

 

If it were mine, I'd be looking for an alternate (lower temperature) routing.

 

It does seem a poor choice to locate it but appears it came that way. @dmfconsult @JohnD1956 anything to share ?

[dmfconsult]

Is that connection on the passenger side of engine behind the compressor?  Looks like there should be two connections there, the smaller of which should be the hi-blower connection.   I don’t think that clip is a ground but I don’t see it on the schematic.  

 

I don’t have the wagon here otherwise I’d go out and snap a pic. I might be able to get over to the car in a day or so. 

[MrEarl]

It is on the passenger side Doug. The length of wires and somewhat unique mount make me think that it is the way it came and wasn’t hacked in. Yours may be different because of the different compressor. 

[dmfconsult]

Different motor too. From the chassis service manual, here’s the diagram showing connections with radial compressor. Note the ground is shown on the mounting bracket for the compressor, so I’m sure the clip on your harness is just a clip to keep the harness in place. 

 

[dmfconsult]

I think it was brought up earlier, but have you ruled out exhaust issues (plugged cat or broken baffle in the muffler?) to explain some of the power and bogging issues?  We had a plugged cat in a 76 Pontiac wagon and it would not climb hills either. 

 

I would also be looking at vacuum lines and the condition of the coil as well, as problems there could explain some of the symptoms. 

[avgwarhawk]

16 hours ago, MrEarl said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

So considering all this I think I do need to be looking at a couple of options. Either send my carb out for rebuild or purchase a rebuilt. Either way I want it to be tuned to my performance needs of which is towing with decent gas mileage. I need someone who will stand behind the build and answer questions I may have and in laymans terms. I am leaning toward sending mine out as I know it to be correct and original to the car and is not damaged.

 

 

Thanks Brad, Mark is definitely on my list . Along with  these

 

https://cliffshighperformance.com/

 

http://www.everyday-performance.com/quadrajet_carburetors.htm#shop

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I recommend a rebuild of what you have.  I have had better experience with rebuilding what's on the engine over a rebuild out of the box sitting on the shelf.  The bog down, cutting off from time to time/punching it at the light certainly indicates carb issues.   

[JohnD1956]

What is that wide open throttle switch?  Never saw one of those in a Buick powered Wagon.  It would seem that when activated by putting your foot into it, the AC would shut down automatically? I wonder if this is an underlying cause of several problems.  

[Brad Conley]

2 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

 

 

I recommend a rebuild of what you have.  I have had better experience with rebuilding what's on the engine over a rebuild out of the box sitting on the shelf.  The bog down, cutting off from time to time/punching it at the light certainly indicates carb issues.   

 

I concur. I would strongly advise you to use what you have now, so long as it is correct for your application. The biggest mistakes people make is: 1) using an aftermarket part when the OEM part was designed by people that actually know what they are doing ( ie-Holley vs Quadrajet) and buying a rebuilt part from a giant wholesaler (Auto Zone comes to mind) that was rebuilt using a mishmash of wrong parts. Lamar, the three rebuilders you listed will all do an excellent job for you. 

[MrEarl]

OK, first the blower switch connection... I do believe the clip on the extended head bolt is how it came. Considering how close it is to the manifold heat however I decided the easiest fix was to simply extend that bolt thus pulling the contact and wires further away from the heat source.

 

 

 

 

Not sure I have visited this coupling for the last time though as the 10 gauge wire is making loose contact and has melted the plastic at the end a bit. I will be looking for another 4 wire coupling.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

6 hours ago, dmfconsult said:

I think it was brought up earlier, but have you ruled out exhaust issues (plugged cat or broken baffle in the muffler?) to explain some of the power and bogging issues?  We had a plugged cat in a 76 Pontiac wagon and it would not climb hills either. 

 

I would also be looking at vacuum lines and the condition of the coil as well, as problems there could explain some of the symptoms. 

 

Doug, I went to replace the bent 90* exhaust tailpipe today with one I had ordered from Summit last week and discovered they sent the wrong size. I reordered this afternoon and hopefully will have it mid morning tomorrow.

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[carbking]

When one wants increased performance from a late model Rochester Quadrajet, one calls Cliff Ruggles of Cliff's High Performance. Period.

 

Cliff wrote the second book on Q-Jets (the first was by Doug Roe).

 

Call him. Tell him what has been done to the engine, and what you want, then LISTEN (remember the old E.F. Hutton commercials)?

 

I have read lots of books in 60 years of working on carburetors. Cliff's ranks as the number one as far as being "user friendly", and among the top three, period. Plus, you don't have to have an advanced degree in mathematics to understand what is written.

 

Jon.

[avgwarhawk]

I can not say I have seen any wires routed by the manifold like that. GM ran wires between the valve cover and intake manifold to items mounted in the front of the engine. .  My guess is head replacement found the wire in its current position and left there. 

 

[MrEarl]

1 hour ago, avgwarhawk said:

I can not say I have seen any wires routed by the manifold like that. GM ran wires between the valve cover and intake manifold to items mounted in the front of the engine. .  My guess is head replacement found the wire in its current position and left there. 

 

curious how the wire connector has that clip made into it though if it wasn't original though. I may have to fab up a new connection and if so may reroute the wiring then. Sure would like to find a 78-79 EW parts car somewhere close by.

[MrEarl]

2 hours ago, carbking said:

When one wants increased performance from a late model Rochester Quadrajet, one calls Cliff Ruggles of Cliff's High Performance. Period.

 

Cliff wrote the second book on Q-Jets (the first was by Doug Roe).

 

Call him. Tell him what has been done to the engine, and what you want, then LISTEN (remember the old E.F. Hutton commercials)?

 

I have read lots of books in 60 years of working on carburetors. Cliff's ranks as the number one as far as being "user friendly", and among the top three, period. Plus, you don't have to have an advanced degree in mathematics to understand what is written.

 

Jon.

 

Jon, I edited the title of this thread purposely in hopes you might see it and weigh in, thanks!! 😊  I actually ordered the book a couple days ago but honestly need to get this carb off and to someone probably before I receive and have a chance to read it. I've read that the turnaround time for Cliff to get a carb back to you can be up to 12 weeks. I simply don't have that kind of time with this car as we already missed a much anticipated trip and have another make up trip planned in about 4-5 weeks. I'll be talking with Cliff and seeing what kind

of timeline and dollars I'll be looking at with him though. Thanks again for weighing in.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Brad Conley said:

 

I concur. I would strongly advise you to use what you have now, so long as it is correct for your application. The biggest mistakes people make is: 1) using an aftermarket part when the OEM part was designed by people that actually know what they are doing ( ie-Holley vs Quadrajet) and buying a rebuilt part from a giant wholesaler (Auto Zone comes to mind) that was rebuilt using a mishmash of wrong parts. Lamar, the three rebuilders you listed will all do an excellent job for you. 

 

From all my research so far I have gained a pretty good appreciation for this carb and definitely want to stay with a Quadrejet and hopefully this one. I do need to get this car on the road sooner than later though so that may play into where it goes for rebuild. I've got a week or two of other work I could be doing to the car while it is off and being built. So will need to take all that into account.

Thanks for your thoughts and info, I really appreciate it.

 

Some pics I took today while checking for possible vacuum hose issues. I did see that I will need a new throttle cable end. Also this wagon came from California and in decoding the model # I see it is a California only carb.  Anybody have any info on what difference that might make with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by MrEarl (see edit history)