thebum Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Hello, I am hoping that someone will be able to give me more info about this car which I believe is a Stutz Bearcat. The photo, according to the Date written on the back of the photo, was taken on 15 May, 1919, I presume in Atlantic City, New Jersey. My Grandmother is sitting on the front of the hood. I do have the name of who I believe was the owner, who was from Philadelphia, PA and Atlantic City, New Jersey, if that would be helpful. I would like to add this info to my Tree on Ancestry.com . Thank You 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Looks to have full elliptical front springs which means it is not a Stutz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Definitely not a Stutz although clearly styled with a strong resemblance. It is also a smaller car than a Stutz. Those front springs should help narrow down what it actually is. Greg in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 It's interesting that it still has gas lights (and a Prestolite tank) in 1919. We tend to think that after electric lights were available most cars were converted to them. The car itself is probably 1912-1913. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Why would the steering wheel be wrapped like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebum Posted October 27, 2018 Author Share Posted October 27, 2018 The steering wheel may be made of wood and possibly wrapped to protect it. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 GREAT photo. Thanks for sharing. Say, what is that indistinct blob on the right side ("driver's side, in this photo)) of the cowl area, right where a cowl light might be located. I don't recognize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 I see a speedometer, horn and side light on or near the cowl also the presto-lite tank is mounted upside down, seen in modern photos more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 If in AC am wondering if the steering whl wasnt wrapped for a parade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchyoke Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Hello thebum, I believe the automobile is a 1912 Hupmobile model 20 runabout. The steering wheel is probably wrapped because they were wood dovetailed together and always seemed to separate. The blob is the horn, the horn bulb is located in front of the shift levers outside the drivers side false door. However, it should be mounted on the dashboard by the hood, where it always got wacked (probably why the car owner moved it). I also do not see any kerosene cowl lights ( unless the thing that looks like an upside down bag is a light), which should be mounted at the top outside edge of the dashboard. The sidelight brackets are not correct nor in the right location. The speedometer head would be mounted on the inside of the dashboard, inside the vehicle. The Prestolite tank is correct as are the headlights. The radiator neck if it were visible would be very tall. A very fun car to drive, only downside for some folks is the two speed transmission. Thanks for posting, and as always stand to be corrected. Diane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 A tall radiator neck would make grandma's perch a little uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, scotchyoke said: Hello thebum, I believe the automobile is a 1912 Hupmobile model 20 runabout. The steering wheel is probably wrapped because they were wood dovetailed together and always seemed to separate. The blob is the horn, the horn bulb is located in front of the shift levers outside the drivers side false door. However, it should be mounted on the dashboard by the hood, where it always got wacked (probably why the car owner moved it). I also do not see any kerosene cowl lights ( unless the thing that looks like an upside down bag is a light), which should be mounted at the top outside edge of the dashboard. The sidelight brackets are not correct nor in the right location. The speedometer head would be mounted on the inside of the dashboard, inside the vehicle. The Prestolite tank is correct as are the headlights. The radiator neck if it were visible would be very tall. A very fun car to drive, only downside for some folks is the two speed transmission. Thanks for posting, and as always stand to be corrected. Diane Not a Hupmobile. Look closer at the front springs. They are full-elliptical like a buggy with no frame horns. The radiator is a totally different shape, too. Edited October 28, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 If I were you I would place this post in the What is It sub-forum just below. It will stay on top a lot longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 DEF NOT A hUPP. THIS CAR IS MUCH LARGER AND OF MEANS........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude17 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 How about a circa 1910 Cameron 6 "Flyer" http://www.american-automobiles.com/Cameron-1908-1912.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebum Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Thanks for all of the replies, Hupmobile and Cameron are cars that I have never heard of before. I copied the photo of the 1910 Cameron "Six Flyer" and compared the photos. The front springs look the same to me but the photo of the Cameron has what looks like a tool box on the driver side running board and the photo that I posted has a tank of some sort on the running board. I did post this photo on the "What Is It" Forum. Thank You, the Bum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Not a Cameron. The radiator is different. Different cowl shape, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Bolt on accessories like tool boxes and acetylene tanks are not good details to use for identification. Even if shown in a catalog photo many time the actual production cars will vary in detail. And many times accessories like this were either added by the selling dealer or added later by the cars owner. Even body styles are at times an unreliable means of identification. Restyling a few years old car was reasonably common in this era, likewise installing a stripped down sports body. Some factory sports body cars like the mystery car were made, however there were also many one off versions produced by individual owners or independent shops. Chassis details are a much more reliable means of identification on early era cars. Greg in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom82baur Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 There are some definite similarities to this Cameron. And remember.... the Cameron was air cooled, so there WAS no radiator, and therefore no protruding radiator cap to inconvenience grandma's perch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varun Coutinho Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 On 10/27/2018 at 9:33 PM, thebum said: Hello, I am hoping that someone will be able to give me more info about this car which I believe is a Stutz Bearcat. The photo, according to the Date written on the back of the photo, was taken on 15 May, 1919, I presume in Atlantic City, New Jersey. My Grandmother is sitting on the front of the hood. I do have the name of who I believe was the owner, who was from Philadelphia, PA and Atlantic City, New Jersey, if that would be helpful. I would like to add this info to my Tree on Ancestry.com . Thank You 1910 Middleby 25Hp (Custom) Runabout Attached Photos 1) 1910 Middleby 25Hp Touring, 2) 1910 Middleby 25Hp Runabout Ad Manufacturer : 1908 - 1913 Middleby Automobile Co. - Reading, Pennsylvania. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebum Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 Thank You, it sure looks like the Middleby Runabout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) Stutz cars from this time period are quite a bit bigger than the car in your photo. The Middleby like your grandmother is sitting on was a relatively small car. If a Stutz and a Middleby were parked beside each other the size difference would be quite apparent. Edited February 28 by 1912Staver (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I always found the friendly rivalry between Stutz and Mercer interesting. As a longtime hobbyist that has been privileged to personally know sever major collectors over the years, I have managed to sit in on discussions by owners of both marques. I have been up close, worked on sat in rode in (even drove a couple?) of both companies. They are kind of like "apples and oranges" as era sports and racing cars go. The Stutz is more the true muscle car of its era, a rather large and very powerful "sports" car! Whereas the Mercer is a medium size sports car, with only about two-thirds the horsepower as the Stutz, but also only about two-thirds the weight. If handling was important for a race? The Mercer had an advantage. If raw power was needed? The Stutz could blow away the competition! (I didn't make that stuff up myself? That is what owners of the cars have told me!) While the Stutz was bigger, leaner, and meaner? The Mercer had a bit more "flash", with more brightwork (earlier models usually in brass and sometimes lots of it!), giving a bit more "style"! All this to point out that the Middleby appears to be even smaller than the Mercer, itself considerably smaller than the Stutz. The Middleby is a rarely heard of car, I am not sure I have ever heard of one, and that does not happen often for me. I am fairly sure I have never seen one myself. The Middleby is significant in its own special way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Congratulations Varun ! I think you nailed it. Interesting that it ended up being air cooled after all. That pesky radiator neck or lack of, became a key point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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