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1 hour ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

Your project is looking great. I just had a thought that might help. As far as your noise goes, I would definitely look at the pilot bearing. I had a buddy back many years ago had a similar issue. He changed the TO bearing several times after he changed the clutch. He didn’t change the pilot gearing. He finally called to ask my dad for help. After dad listened to him and the car, dad asked if he had changed the pilot bearing?  The next evening he brought the car over and the three of us changed it. The bearing was shot and had also wore the input shaft. The next weekend dad replaced the shaft and the noise was gone. Mike

 

Would the pilot bearing only make a noise when the clutch is pressed in?  If so... then that sounds like my problem.

 

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Panels are fitting and I'm breathing a big sigh of relief.   Door will be up shortly and if I can get those to swing closed properly I'm really going to be pleased.   Might take a bit, so I'm prepared for patience. 

 

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4 hours ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

Yes. Anytime the clutch is released or slips. All the pilot bearings I’ve changed have been a bronze bushing. I’ve seen larger vehicles have ball bearings

 

That's great news.  I ordered one last night.  I did not replace it when I did the rebuild as I completely overlooked it.  I went back and looked and it is on the workshop manual but I either forgot about it or just flat out missed it. 

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No pictures for last couple of days but making very good progress.  I'm now waiting on some t-nuts to finish off the backboard.  Due to how the car is assembled I have to have that in place before the rear quarters can go on, which is holding up fitting the doors which is holding up fixing the front half of the panels which is holding up the scuttle which is holding up the firewall.  :)   FedEx says they'll be here by end of day tomorrow... I sure hope that it is before that.   I've been plating some more nuts and bolts and have had pretty good success this time.  Last time I really struggled but I made some changes in prep, a tweak to the solution and change in the current and it seems to be working really well now.   The goal this weekend is to get the tub back together and off the chassis so that it can be prepped for painting.  I felt like this was reasonable earlier this week but I'm starting to wonder if it will happen.  I do have some questions about, for lack of a better term, "best practices" in the final assembly.  I made good notes about what I found as I took things apart but I do have some questions about what was original.  In addition I'm sure there are some things that, while original, I don't want to do... like felt between some pieces.  I bought another book that while a bit dated should have some more information that will be handy.  I'll have some more pictures over the weekend.

 

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Yeah so it went OK but not great.  FedEx is now saying the shipment is "Pending" which I guess is their was of saying "crap, it didn't make it on time and we're not sure what went wrong".   These are trying times so I not shocked.  

 

I got the driver's rear quarter panel on and it is a great fit.  Very happy with it.  Backboard is complete save for the two t-nuts which I'll be able to put in later though not as easily.  The front quarter panel is on and it fits good as well.  

 

The not so great news is that the door is about 3/16" to 1/8" low.  Not angled... just low.  The bad news is that I think it was made this way.  These are things I noticed when I put the car together the first time and went for a test drive.  The post on the driver's side didn't change and the rear post on the door is original as well... the holes for the hinges are all original... they are all lined up... but it is just low.  Period.  If that wasn't bad enough, the front of the door is not curved enough to follow the front quarter panel.  Maybe the same amount off.  Unfortunately I think this is original as well.  I've noticed various parts of the car were put together poorly, bad joinery, misaligned holes, etc.  These cars were built by hand and I'm afraid the guy that did mine just didn't do that great a job.  There is one spot on the rear quarter panel that they didn't even use the original hole... they drilled another one 3/8" below it and used that.  Ugh.   I'm not really sure what I'll do at this point.  My guess is that I will not be able to ignore it and I'll plug up the holes in the door post and drill news ones 3/16" higher.  I'll need to trim the sheet metal as well.  I looked at trying to offset the hinges in some way but even if I did that it would be pretty obvious.   I held the passenger's door up on the other side and it seems to fit into its spot a lot better.  When I put things together the first time it fit pretty well so maybe it will this time as well.

 

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Don't beat yourself up Jeff, you didn't built the car.  You will get it all straightened out and be on your way once more.  That's what these old machines do.  Test our minds and patience. ;)

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4 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

The bad news is that I think it was made this way.

 

Jeff, these were the first MG's to be made in relatively large numbers and were a cheap sports car at £500 plus purchase tax. The period was just after the second World War and Britain was rather 'threadbare', (at this time in the morning I can't think of another word for it). I think quantity rather than quality may have been aim at the time.

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I'm not surprised that the door is not well aligned. The way those cars were build was like you build a house, about the same precision. The door is 1/8 too low and what? It's an open car!

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Posted (edited)

Martin, Roger and Mike, 

 

Yes, I think my mental image of what this car should be has been driven by a set of pictures I found for an MG TD that sold at auction for $88K.  It was perfect, gaps, lines, everything.  One way or another that has become my "goal" for this car.   I had prepared myself for the disappointment of the doors not fitting right because of a mistake I might have made redoing the woodwork.  To find that I had done it correct and that the door didn't fit right leaving the factory... that was the source of my despair.  :)  I also blame (not really) Joe because he's made me a machinist and trained me to look at 3/16" as 187 thousandths which is a monstrously huge amount. ;) 

 

I'm going to leave the door as is for this morning.  I'm going to set the other side in place and see how that door fits.  Once that is done I'll take another look at the driver's door.  If I could bend some curve into the front so that the spacing away from the front quarter panel was even top to bottom I might be satisfied leaving it low.   In truth... if I do get the spacing correct in the front I'm going to then try to get the height right because when it comes to making a bad situation worse... I'm always game. ;)

 

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)
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MG's were always an "economy" sports car. I don't know if  3/16" is very much on one. It seems to me that none of the TCs and TDs I've worked on (I had a close friend who really liked them. All his cars were unrestored, save perhaps for paint) had doors that didn't fit perfectly - or at least to the standards I'd expect from an open Bentley. That "perfect" car is probably a restorer's fantasy.

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49 minutes ago, Luv2Wrench said:

I think my mental image of what this car should be has been driven by a set of pictures I found for an MG TD that sold at auction for $88K.  It was perfect, gaps, lines, everything.  One way or another that has become my "goal" for this car.

 

Jeff, I think that is a good goal to aim for, but, don't beat yourself up for other peoples mistakes or original 'that will do' tolerances.

 

I had been repairing vehicle bodies since the 60's and started the Jaymic Accident Repair Centre in 1973. I remember doing my first side damage repair to a Jaguar Mk2, they had very narrow door gaps, I was totally amazed. I also remember the first Aston Martin I repaired and looked forward to road testing it when finished. I was very disappointed with driving it and wouldn't have swapped my 1969 Lotus Elan +2S for it.

 

1 hour ago, Luv2Wrench said:

I also blame (not really) Joe because he's made me a machinist and trained me to look at 3/16"

 

What a coincidence, I also have a 'mentor' named Joe! :) I've had to invest in all sorts of things like micrometers. We can get our own back when he gets around to the bodywork! :)With doing bodywork, a sharped pencil for checking door gaps, and a tape measure where the order of the day! 

 

Keep up the good work.

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Ha! There will be no doors on my 1910-style body!

Another reason why I like brass-era cars. I have done body work. I've even painted a few cars but it was never my favorite part of the job.

 

j

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Posted (edited)

I got the passenger's side front and rear quarter panels installed.  I'm using an EDPM rubber strip between the quarters and the frame parts.  The one I selected fills between 1/8" and 5/16" gap.  It is adhesive backed and goes on very nicely.  Doesn't hold water and gives a nice fit between the panels and frame.  Should protect against rubbing.  Astonishingly enough... it was available at the local Home Depot. 

 

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I got the passenger's door mounted and it looks like it is going to work very well.  I need to bend the hinges a bit to bring the rear of the door out away from the rear quarter panel and the door itself and little towards the rear so it will have more of a gap at the front.   I took a closer look at the driver's door and I can see where the front of the panel has a flat spot instead of the curve.  I think I'll be able to get the curve back and that should bring the top in closer to the quarter panel.   I also raised it up a bit with the hinges and it swing shut pretty much spot on.  I think with the change in the curve it will be perfectly acceptable if not perfect. 

 

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Lastly I got the scuttle installed though before I nail the front I will install the windshield to make sure the scuttle is still the correct width.  I didn't think about this but I read it in the MGT forums when I was researching door fitment.  I'm glad I did as getting to the end (with paint no less) and the windshield not fitting would be a huge letdown!!

 

 

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)
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EPDM is indeed a synthetic rubber and shows up in your local hardware store as weatherstripping. What makes it good for this is its designed ability to handle cold temperatures by remaining pliable, not shrinking and/or cracking.  As a synthetic it is also easier to mold/form and can make interesting shapes that give it the gap filling capability.  These were really good features for the area I was using it in.   I'm sure it will later be found to cause some sort of cancer and be banned... ;)

 

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I've take a bit of a detour from getting the tub together because I realized I haven't sent the chrome away to get plated.  Oops!!  I called the plater earlier in the week and they are running about an 8 week backlog.  That's probably fine but I certainly don't want to wait any longer.  I spent just about the whole week going through the chrome and getting things ready.  The bumpers, obviously, are a big part of that and I found a few surprises when I got to those.  The bumper bar on the rear bumper was at some point broken... but no big deal because a welding genius welded it back together.  And yes, this is real... I'm not making this up.   I've yet to be able to identify the, uh, patch material other than it appears to be metallic.  There's so much to like about this job, note how an additional piece was added that is no where near the actual break.  The real genius took two people... the guy that welded the bar in place in the bumper getting splatter all over and then the plater that just plated it without a second thought. 

 

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The real icing on the cake though is seen below.... the break in the bumper bar escapes unscathed (or shall we say... unfused.). :)    While my cat doesn't weld, I'm pretty sure he could do a better job. 

 

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Getting back to the tub, one of the last pieces was securing the scuttle in place.  I reassembled the windshield so I could make sure the width was correct.  It turned out perfect so I nailed the top in place.  The rear of the scuttle is welded to the front quarter panel in two small spots on each side.  This was one time I wish that I had a MIG welder and not Oxy/Acetylene torch.  It turned out just fine but boy there is a pucker factor when you're welding thin sheet metal that is wrapped around a 68 year old wood frame.   It is just two small spots on each side so it wasn't an issue but it did seem like an eternity waiting on the puddle to form.   Once I got that done I put the spacers on the front and installed the firewall.  Unfortunately I immediately ran into problems.  It turned out that I pulled the sheet metal down too much in the front and drilled the holes in the front support too low as well.  The end results was the spacer on the top fits the firewall perfectly.... OR the spacers on the side fit perfectly... just not both.  😳  I took the firewall back off, removed the top spacer (which, of course, I had added a nice bead of silicon caulk as well) and pulled the nails out to free up the sheet metal.  I raised up the sheet metal, raised the spacers, put the firewall back on and was able to get everything to line up.  As it sits now it is perfect... the only problem is that the spacer is not screwed into the tub and the scuttle top isn't nailed in either.  I'm not 100% sure how I'll keep everything in place when I take it back apart such that I can nail and screw everything in.  The one thing I do know is that it was late and not the time to try.   I'll get that done tomorrow and the finish up the doors.

 

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4 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

While my cat doesn't weld, I'm pretty sure he could do a better job. 

 

Maybe I should lend you one of my cats? Tigger is great with the TIG welder, the rehomed Alley Cat is a real pro when it comes to aluminium welding, Moggie is useless at welding, but when it comes to restoring a Morgan he's the cats whiskers! ;)

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On 5/1/2020 at 3:59 AM, Mike Macartney said:

 

Maybe I should lend you one of my cats? Tigger is great with the TIG welder, the rehomed Alley Cat is a real pro when it comes to aluminium welding, Moggie is useless at welding, but when it comes to restoring a Morgan he's the cats whiskers! ;)

 

On the theme of welding... the PO (or someone) for some strange reason drilled a bunch of holes in random areas of the car.  Maybe the were trying to lighten it ;)   One of the last tasks before being able to start prepping the tub for paint is to weld in 40 holes in the firewall.  Yeah, 40 holes.  Things went very smoothly and I was quite pleased with the results.  I welded 4 holes at a time spaced far apart.  After 4 holes I turned the torch off, grabbed a body hammer and gave the new welds a couple of good smacks.  This was to offset the shrinkage that would come from the pool of molten metal cooling.  While the strategy added some time to the process, it seemed to work well and I had no issue with warping.   The welds cleaned up nicely and the end results exceeded my expectations.   I have a hole in the bumper to do and 6 holes in the spare tire mount.  

 

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WOW Jeff, that repair looks extremely good, and that is a rare compliment from me, having spent many years welding up 'rusty motors' with oxy-acetylene then MIG for more years than I care to remember.

 

6 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

the PO (or someone) for some strange reason drilled a bunch of holes in random areas of the car.  Maybe the were trying to lighten it ;)   

 

In the UK there is no need to drill holes to lighten steel bodies - the rust will do that for you! We used to call the rust - 'Golden Body Lightener' :)

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How, exactly do you do that? Do you have to put something on the back side? I ask because I have a few holes in my chassis that I'll have to close up...one from a brace that goes to the sub=frame that I have to move forward and some others from running board brackets I won't be using (though I could put bolts in those). I do have a proper torch but I've done very little welding and none of it very good (or if it came out good it was pure dumb luck).

 

 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

How, exactly do you do that? Do you have to put something on the back side? I ask because I have a few holes in my chassis that I'll have to close up...one from a brace that goes to the sub=frame that I have to move forward and some others from running board brackets I won't be using (though I could put bolts in those). I do have a proper torch but I've done very little welding and none of it very good (or if it came out good it was pure dumb luck).

 

 

 

I just did it with filler rod.  I started the puddle like normal on the right edge of the hole and just before/right at the time it gets liquid I put the filler rod in the puddle and start working left and up/down.  The trick is to move a little too fast such that you're melting filler rod with torch just as much as the puddle.  This keeps the puddle from getting too big and sagging.  Obviously this is not what you'd do on a fusion joint which is why once you've filled the hole, you start the puddle on the right again and reflow the weld getting the puddle much bigger and working it about 1/8" or so outside the diameter of the original hole.  You can use the pressure of the flame to push the puddle around a bit and get it to flatten some as well.  You'll be shocked when you look at the back and it is almost dead flat and needs little grinding if any.  I guess it is due to some surface tension effect or something.   I'm not sure of the thickness limit this would work for but you could definitely "stack" the bits of filler rod pretty deep for repairing thicker metal.   One thing to visualize, with normal Oxy/Act welding you'd be dipping the filler rod in the top of the edge of the puddle.  When I'm doing this I'm sticking the rod on the edge of the leading side of the puddle, I have the rod at an extreme angle, almost horizontal.  Again, this is 100% not how to do a joint, but you're going to reflow and level out the whole thing later so it works a charm.   For the spare tire rack that is about 1/4" thick or more, I took a counter sink bit and made the existing hole a little angled.  Then I chopped a bit of round stock off that fits in the top of the hole but doesn't go all the way through (since it is countersunk).  Then basically the same procedure but now you don't have to fill the middle.  Hope that helps!

 

Now that I think about it, given the tools you have... I think taking a taper drill and putting a slight taper in the holes you have to fill, then turn a bit of bar stock at about the same taper would make an ideal plug. Put it in the hole, give it a slight tap and work the puddle around the circumference.  

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)
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I think it looks 40x better without the 40 extra holes. :)

 

Pg2rZz3.jpg

 

So here's basically the same picture I've been showing for what seems like months along with the same goal... remove the tub and prep for paint.  This time, however, removing the tub and prepping for paint really is just around the corner.  The doors still need to be tweaked and then that's it!!!  Tub comes off, 80 grit once over, 3 coats epoxy primer, 3 coats sanding primer and then block sanding. 

 

G4NAfh2.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, keiser31 said:

Have you decided on a final color, yet?

 

British Racing Green is the color.  Pinning that down isn't easy, but I did have a headlight in the parts pile that was close.  I'm using it as a start and will darken it just a touch.

 

IMG-7913.thumb.JPG.c051c33cb6a70181705284d25a8eb913.JPG

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Driver's door is fit and I'm happy with it. It is at least as good as original and probably better.  Passenger's door is very close but will need the hinges bent.  Some idiot bent them the other day to move the door in one direction and didn't notice something else was amiss.   I'd really let the guy have it for screwing that up but I'm gonna cut myself some slack. ;)

 

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Quite the adventure getting the passenger's door fit.  I took the hinges off and started bending the one that was most off.  I heated it thoroughly to prevent it from cracking.  It snapped clean in two the moment I started to bend it.  Oops.  I have multiple other hinges but I picked the ones I'm using because they were the best and didn't have too much play (ie; they were not worn out).  Since only one half of the hinge broke I took the pin out, found another half from my stash that would match and put it back together.  I was very fortunate in that the one top half I had (it must have the three mounting holes instead of two) was not worn out and matched well with the half I managed to not destroy.  With a new half this was a different hinge so I had to put everything back together and test fit the door again.  Fortunately this time the door's fit was very, very close.   The door itself needed some tweaking where the skin did not wrap around the frame correctly.  Probably another mistake by the guy that bent the hinges wrong and then snapped one in half.  After another couple of hours of on/test/off/tweak/on/test/off/tweak/on/test I finally had a fit that was spot on.  Which means... I'M DONE WITH THE DOORS. :)  Hopefully I'll be able to take them off without breaking them, label everything and put things away so I can find them later.  Tomorrow I will get the tub ready to be lifted off and then my son and I will lift it off and set it on a rolling work table. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2020 at 2:38 AM, Roger Zimmermann said:

Are the hinges casted bronze?

 

That is what I've read.  They are bronze for sure and judging from looking at the internals after the one half busted in two, it appears cast.   I bent them quite a bit before I knew they were cast.  Once I read that they were cast I made note to be more careful at which point one promptly split into two.  

 

Upon further review I've found that the hinges are made of brass. 

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)
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Just in case you haven't had enough of me droning on about how my goal is to get the tub off the chassis and ready for paint, here's the latest video where I mention it every 3 minutes.  

https://youtu.be/40R2OGhUFoQ

 

 

 

For the record... I did finally get the tub off the chassis and on the rolling table.  Tomorrow it will get epoxy primer and sanding primer on Monday.  

 

zppaUnl.jpg


I have narrowed my choices for paint down to two paint codes:

 

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail.cgi?ppg=47037

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail.cgi?ppg=46169

 

I'm leaning towards the first one, 47037 but will probably get both of them mixed and into spray cans so I can spray them out and see how they look.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mike Macartney said:

I think 46169 is nicer!?! 😀

 

I started with that one, it is called Jaguar Racing Green.  The narrative on it is that in the shade it gets very dark and the blue tints are very strong.  I'll also be looking at the two sample sprayed out and there's no guarantee that even if the mixer follows the formula correctly that it ends up being identical to what we see online... my computer monitor isn't calibrated either... in fact, I have it set a good bit warmer than standard.

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Oddly enough, that is just about the color I plan to paint the Mitchell though I'm not all that fussy as to the exact shade as long as its very dark. Brewster Green - which is, I think, even darker is also good.

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