1952 MG TD

[alsfarms]

Have you got to the point that you have a good idea about the wood filler/epoxy?  Your work looks good!

Al

[Luv2Wrench]

17 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Have you got to the point that you have a good idea about the wood filler/epoxy?  Your work looks good!

Al

Yes, the epoxy seems good, though not as good as West Systems.  It isn't two parts and doesn't soak into the wood as much as West.  That also means it is a lot less trouble.   I think it does a good job sealing slightly damaged wood before application of the filler within the limitations of the filler (not structural). 

The filler is a slightly more flexible version of regular body filler.  This is a good thing as it not likely to crack.  It would not be, in my opinion, suitable for holding screws nor would it be structural.  For filling, however, it seems superior to typical wood fillers as long as you painting (ie; not staining). 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[John S.]

Great work. It is coming along nicely. Thanks, John

[Tom53MGTD]

Been following as a guest watching your progress.  Great workmanship!  I have a '53 that I picked-up as a project that someone else started.  New wood frame and sheet metal came with the car.  I'm trying to install sheet metal and hope that you can help with a question.  I noticed in the picture of your blasted front quarter panel that there is slight offset along the front top corner.  What are the dimensions of this offset on the panel?  I can see that at the front it is about the thickness of the scuttle panel and tapers to zero.  My panels are flat in this area and I need to recreate this feature. 

[Luv2Wrench]

28 minutes ago, Tom53MGTD said:

Been following as a guest watching your progress.  Great workmanship!  I have a '53 that I picked-up as a project that someone else started.  New wood frame and sheet metal came with the car.  I'm trying to install sheet metal and hope that you can help with a question.  I noticed in the picture of your blasted front quarter panel that there is slight offset along the front top corner.  What are the dimensions of this offset on the panel?  I can see that at the front it is about the thickness of the scuttle panel and tapers to zero.  My panels are flat in this area and I need to recreate this feature. 

Thanks! Post a picture of the area you need dimensions for and I'll try to help!

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

Connected the front and rear.  Will let the glue dry and, hopefully, take the sheet metal back off.  I've started on the driver's side already.

 

Tom53MGTD:  I think I understand what part you'd like to see and have attached some pictures.  It is a very slight offset.

 

[Tom53MGTD]

15 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

Thanks! Post a picture of the area you need dimensions for and I'll try to help!

 

The pics that you posted show the area in question.  This is the best view and explanation that I have seen.  Looks like the offset tapers approximately 2" and the amount of the offset in the front view is a little more than a 1/10".  Thanks, this will help a lot.

[Luv2Wrench]

8 hours ago, Tom53MGTD said:

The pics that you posted show the area in question.  This is the best view and explanation that I have seen.  Looks like the offset tapers approximately 2" and the amount of the offset in the front view is a little more than a 1/10".  Thanks, this will help a lot.

 

The offset is a little shorter in length, in the picture above it is completely smooth still at the 6/10th mark.   I will check later today but I think that there is a slight mismatch between the thick top side piece (under the scuttle) and the rib that runs down to the sill.  I believe the offset is where this mismatch occurs.  I remember thinking I had messed something up but went out and verified it on the parts car.

 

Update:  I checked and the passenger's side offset is a little longer, probably 1.75".  I think somewhere around less than 2" should be fine.  There is a cutout of the wood piece to provide the clearance for the offset but from the best I can tell, that cutout is not the reason for the offset.  I think the offset is to for clearance where the scuttle slides on.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

Got the sheet metal off without issue and I'm very happy with the frame.  Got all the pieces rough cut for the driver's side.  I decided to scarf in some new wood on one piece rather than replacing it.  The spirit of the restoration is to keep what can be kept and this piece certainly could be saved.   Obviously the sill could not be nor the rib that goes on the front.  It was broken at a critical point and was too thin to patch.    The new sill still needs to be shaped and joinery is to come but I think I should get that done tomorrow. 

 

[Luv2Wrench]

Front and rear joined on the driver's side.  Good start to the Thanksgiving break, really hoping to get a lot done between now and Monday.

 

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

 

[John S.]

Luv2Wrench, Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

[Luv2Wrench]

Not quite making the progress that I'd hoped but I'm very much enjoying my Thanksgiving!  Might have an addition to the machine shop soon!!

 

Driver's side meets passenger's side.  That finishes out the wood wood as the only thing left now are to cut the floorboards.  Should be ready for primer soon.  I'm definitely breathing a sigh of relief as the sheet metal continues to fit.  While I'm very comfortable doing woodwork, the woodwork on this car is, well, loose.  There are some parts that fit snugly and some areas that have 3/8" gaps.  I assume they had jigs that they set the wood pieces in and then glued/screwed it together.  Slots were cut with a router in a jig and usually 1/8" oversize all the way around.  I guess it needed to be a little big to give it some play for aligning with the jigs.  As such you have to fit each new piece in the sheet metal to make get the right fit.   The stringer across the front is a great example.  It doesn't come within 1/8" of meeting the uprights but is held in place by a metal bracket on the inside.  More wood is added outside that goes over the scuttle and then it ties the two uprights together as well but only using screws. 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

Obviously, the precision with woodwork was not very tight; I'm sure there was considerable variation between cars.

[Mike Macartney]

Jeff, I am finding it interesting with your MG TD seeing how MG progressed from using a lot of woodwork on the earlier TA & TC models, to a bit less on the TD with more metal in the framing. I assume, as they built a large number of TD's, they tried to make them a bit easier to build in quantity. I am enjoying following your progress.

[Luv2Wrench]

5 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

Obviously, the precision with woodwork was not very tight; I'm sure there was considerable variation between cars.

I think they relied on jigs to get the pieces in the exact place each time and then relied on screws to hold the joint.  I'm guessing they stamped the panels so they were fairly consistent.  It appears the panels provides a bit of stability to the structure as well.  The main heavy steel piece that runs front to back along with a steel right angle piece in the middle provides the main rigidity.   It looks like with the combination of all of those... you gained consistency from car to car as well as a reasonably strong structure.   

 

 

[oldcar]

Hello Jeff

I must confess, this the first time I have looked in on your project, I am simply not a capable wood-worker so it is extra interesting to see the amount of timber used.  The TD was the first MG with IFS and I assume a much stiffer chassis than the earlier T types. I am going to have to go back to the start of your restoration.

 

Bernie j.

[Luv2Wrench]

1 hour ago, oldcar said:

Hello Jeff

I must confess, this the first time I have looked in on your project, I am simply not a capable wood-worker so it is extra interesting to see the amount of timber used.  The TD was the first MG with IFS and I assume a much stiffer chassis than the earlier T types. I am going to have to go back to the start of your restoration.

 

Bernie j.

 

It is good to have you here Bernie!  I've been a big fan of your restorations. 

[Luv2Wrench]

So all that progress I wanted to make over the break went out the window... a nice Hendey Horizontal Mill was the cause.  

I have a Hendey lathe and a Hendey shaper, both well over 100 years old.  I've been searching CL for years for an older mill that was big enough to do real work but not too big for my shop.  On Friday such a mill popped  up on CL and it just happened to be a Hendey.   Hendey mills are very rare as they just didn't make many of them.   This one also came with a lot of tooling.  I don't think I could be any happier with it.  It will take a fair amount of work to get it back in top condition and it will be some time before I get to it, but it will be a pleasure to work on.  For now I need to find or build a dolly that can support 2160 lbs so I can roll it out of the way and get the MG back in the shop.

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Laughing Coyote]

Oh my. How did you get that beast in the shop? Looks like you're going to be busy for a while. You need to get a bigger shop. 

[Mike Macartney]

4 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

On Friday such a mill popped  up on CL and it just happened to be a Hendey.

 

It looks in pretty good condition. You and Joe have kindled my enthusiasm for old machinery, I just wish I was 30-years younger. I am interested to know what "CL" is? I am sure it can't be 'Chocolate Lover'!

[Roger Zimmermann]

5 minutes ago, Mike Macartney said:

 

It looks in pretty good condition. You and Joe have kindled my enthusiasm for old machinery, I just wish I was 30-years younger. I am interested to know what "CL" is? I am sure it can't be 'Chocolate Lover'!

CL = Craigslist. This is another method to sell goods.

[chistech]

I use a 4000lb pallet jack to move my equipment around. They’re low to the floor and super easy to move with the weight on them. They don’t move too easy when the load it let all the way down also. You can buy brand new ones for around $400 and they’re worth every penny.

[Luv2Wrench]

@chistech yeah, a palette jack would be perfect.  I'll keep an eye out for one on CL.  I saw one for $50 awhile back and didn't get it because I didn't need it at the time... dumb. 

 

Mill and shaper now tucked over in the corner of the main shop area waiting for the MG to be completed and their restoration to start.  MG is back in the shop and impatiently waiting for its restoration to continue.  I'm still cleaning and putting away tooling.  I just built a tooling cabinet and it is already full.  I guess that's a great thing.
 

[Laughing Coyote]

When did you get a shaper?  Did I miss you posting this somewhere? Darn it, I must be getting old.   I'm looking forward to how nice the MG will look when it's done, but also how that equipment will look when it's all done up.

[JV Puleo]

Jeff should post some photos of his lathe... a very creditable job.

[Laughing Coyote]

I did see pictures posted of the lathe a while back and he did a great job. I guess with all the stuff he has to work on now that should keep him out of trouble for awhile.

[Luv2Wrench]

30 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

Jeff should post some photos of his lathe... a very creditable job.

Thanks Joe!

 

Here is the lathe upon arrival just 4 short years ago.  It had a busted up bull gear and other issues.  I found another bull gear but it didn't fit the spindle.  Joe graciously solved that problem for me and made a new center section for the gear so it would fit the spindle.  Next picture is when it first moved into the back room.  Last picture is after I built chip pan with an integrated tooling drawer.  Fortunately that tooling drawer was immediately overwhelmed. 

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

41 minutes ago, Laughing Coyote said:

When did you get a shaper?  Did I miss you posting this somewhere? Darn it, I must be getting old.   I'm looking forward to how nice the MG will look when it's done, but also how that equipment will look when it's all done up.

 

I got the shaper last year right about this time.   It has been all I can do to not work on the machines and stay focused on the car.  I'm not real good about maintaining focus.   I should really not search CL every night....

 

[Mike Macartney]

3 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

 Last picture is after I built chip pan with an integrated tooling drawer.

 

I was not expecting to see a beautiful piece of furniture. I was expecting to see something more industrial. The lathe also looks wonderful. Excellent work.

[alsfarms]

What is the vintage size and make of the nice belt driven lathe?  How much wear do you have on your ways?  I have a contemporary lathe in my shop.  It is a 1926 16" gear head Lodge and Shipley.  I have been working on building a taper attachment for it as I have a large project in the wings when I get to it.  I had some new rear hubs cast in order to fit a pair of round spoke rear wheels to a 1935 John-Deere "A".  They need a specific taper turned to the OD to fit my wheels.  Not a bad job just big.  You got my attention showing us equipment pictures in the middle of the MG TD project.  We all have it  BAD.

Al

[JV Puleo]

Jeff should really answer this but the lathe is c. 1895. It's a "pre tie-bar Hendey". It has plain bearings rather then the tapered plain bearings the later machines used. I have a tie-bar Hendey that is another project in the wings that dates from 1919...just 100 years old this year.

Edited December 3, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

Correct, it is a "pre tie-bar Hendey" with plain (straight) bearings.  It has a 14" swing (more like just under 16") and will remove a significant amount of metal. The generation after mine had tapered bearings.  I added thin needle roller bearings to take up any thrust play so that's not a concern for me.  Obviously it is for HSS tooling and doesn't go fast, but it does go deep.  It will also go really slow.  Cutting threads is ridiculously easy as it doesn't use a thread dial, rather one take the feed in and out of gear without losing sync.  You can set stops on the bar along the bottom to mark the start and end of the cut.  Shift into forward and let the feed cut the thread, it shifts into neutral when it hits the stop, you back out the tool a bit and shift into reverse, when it hits the rear stop it shifts into neutral, you advance the tool and shift into forward.  It couldn't be much easier.

The ways are worn around the headstock but it doesn't really affect anything I would do.  I needed to make a temporary shaft about 12" long and I got it to within a couple thou over the length, that's plenty for the things I will do.  There is significant slop in the cross slide and that you have to pay attention to.  I use an indicator on it like Joe does and that makes it tolerable but it is next on my list of things to do for the lathe.

 

[Luv2Wrench]

Did the first patch panel on the car tonight.  It is on the scuttle and will be behind the windscreen mount so it isn't really visible and as such, I thought that would be a good one to do first.  I felt like I had enough practice.  While it didn't turn out perfect, it exceed my expectations by a good bit.  It should be fairly easy to clean up.  I need to focus a little less on the puddle and a little more on the rod movement.  Far too many times I left it too close and it created a little blob on the end that then added too much filler when I dipped it in the puddle.   I'm starting to get a bit of confidence and that is giving a better awareness of what the puddle is doing.  I'm getting much better at adjusting the torch to get the heat and force combination that I want.  I dare say that I'm starting to enjoy it.

 

[alsfarms]

Jeff,

Thanks for your short discussion regarding your lathe and how you cut threads.  I certainly agree with your assessment of cutting threads.  I use that same technique, if i am nervous about picking up the thread with no booboo's, especially on my old machine.  Show us how your patch panel turns out after initial clean-up of your weld.  It sure does not look like much hammering is going to be needed!

Al

[Luv2Wrench]

Took a medium cut file to rough down the weld beads and find the high spots.  Did a little bumping and then some more filing.  Repeated that and then hit it with the DA and 80 grit.   One thing I'm noticing is that I could use a little more filler and/or not have it as hot.  The low spots you see in the weld are high spots on the other side as it appears to having gotten a little too hot and sagged.  Shouldn't be a problem with a little body filler or glazing putty.   I'm pleased with how it came out and the minimal amount of cleanup time.  If I improve from here then I'm really going to be in a good spot.

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Nice job! Jeff.

[Mike Macartney]

That looks pretty good to me Jeff. The practise was well worth the effort.

[Luv2Wrench]

Finished the other side of the scuttle and the lower part of the quarter panel.  That's all of the patching that needs to be done.  I still need a LOT more practice but I can at least get a solid fusion joint that doesn't take too much effort to get smooth.  I need to file down the quarter panel and then go back over all the panels and make sure they are ready for epoxy primer and then 2K primer.

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

Not too much distorsion on the straight panel from the last picture?

[Luv2Wrench]

3 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

Not too much distorsion on the straight panel from the last picture?

I had a good bit of trouble with the last panel and as a result it did get a lot of heat in it.  I did stop periodically and stretch the joint with a hammer and dolly so the overall distortion is minimal.   From front to back it is very straight, however, from top to bottom at the smallest section it is still shrunk a bit and will need so more work.