And you though China had lousy quality control.

[ghaskett]

So, if you should want to put a 401 in your '56 Buick, you may like this.
Ordered 53-56 Engine Mounts #002703 from Classic Motor World Inc & Classic Buicks, Dallas, Oregon. Didn't fit. You'd think someone would have checked them out before charging $89 plus $21 shipping. We were across the Columbia River from them and couldn't go check them out or pick them up. They had to be mailed out, period!! So we lost about 2 1/2 days waiting for them to get across the river.
Ordered special adaptor plate from Centerville Auto Repair & Nailhead Buick, Grass Valley, California. More than $50 for a flat piece of steel with some holes punched/threaded in it. Guess what? Didn't fit.
  Nothing like being part of a captive audience for old Buick parts retailers.
 

[ghaskett]

I might add that we got the pieces to fit after much drilling, reaming and hogging out.

 

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, ghaskett said:

I might add that we got the pieces to fit after much drilling, reaming and hogging out.

 

 

That's actually to be expected with most any repro part. Some vendors are better than others. Fusick's repro parts are usually spot on. The other Buick guys from NJ are just the opposite. I think their motto is "F'em, close enough"...................Bob

[Beemon]

I'm surprised the stuff from Centerville didn't fit, they're supposed to be the number one for hot rod Buicks. But then again, I've been ripped off plenty by the big "number ones"...

 

Mandrel bent dual exhaust that required a month wait with a $500 deposit only to drop it off and on the third day I get a call they just ordered materials after reserving a month out,  went somewhere else after they told me my car wasnt worth anything (body is missing half the paint)...

 

Had my pump and steering gear rebuilt by Lares, bearing assembled incorrectly on the pump shaft and ate the back side of my pulley that caused it to wobble and erode both the woodruff key and shaft itself, not to mention the gear box has excessive play and is considered dangerous at any speed above 40mph... replaced pump with a rusty old junkyard piece...

 

Or when I had my distributor out for "rebuild" and they recurved it to a Chevy engine without telling me and I could never figure out why I kept having an idle hunt around 600 rpm and could never get it to sit right. ... Also pulled a junkyard piece for that. 

 

Or having a carb rebuilt by three different outfits that still didn't work properly. .... the list goes on. 

 

No honesty from any suppliers I've dealt with, so I learned my lesson of "do it yourself because no one else cares". The "close enough" or "rebuild just means new seals" mentality is rampant. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Beemon (see edit history)

[old-tank]

41 minutes ago, Beemon said:

"do it yourself because no one else cares".

yep.

[BUICK RACER]

that's why i do all my own oil changes, brake jobs and so on and have for many years will for many more as long as I can!! 

[Barney Eaton]

AMEN......Every time I get something done by a "professional" I end up redoing it or finishing the job they did not complete.

[NTX5467]

When I read a car ad that claims something was "professionally rebuilt", that means, to me, that somebody did the job that had a repair shop, rather than a "friend that knew something" (which can be equally negative, typically).  Throwing in that "professionally rebuilt" is supposed to be worth more money, or that they have a receipt for the work alleged to have been done.  NOT to mean that all "professionally rebuilt" items are suspect, just that I'd like to see their pedigree and make my own determinations.

 

There are only UNIVERSAL distributor curve kits.  They might be engineered for the more popular Chevy V-8's needs, but that does not universally mean they'll work on any other engines without some "cut and try" operations.  Certainly not "plug and play" for even a Chevy V-8!

 

But it's NOT just old cars, either!  I got a lower door weatherstrip product from a noted supplier, at a swap meet.  The price was good, so I got it.  The item on my '77 Camaro was in pieces, so something had to be replaced.  The repro item was less expensive than an OEM part and was supposed to be of better material.  When I got it out and desired to install it, it was different AND shorter in length, but was stretchable slightly.  The retention clips did not align, generally, but I started at the front and went to the rear of the door.  At least it was better than what was on the car!

 

The pad at the back of the door, where it met the roof rail weatherstrip was larger and more substantial.  I knew there would be some differences unless it was OEM licensed, so I didn't get too concerned . . . until I tried to close the door (for the first time).  The thick pad prevented it!  So I got to do some quality control checking of the materials, with a razor blade.  The nice, soft, black rubber, when sliced, yielded open cells with small opaque grains (which were slightly oily).  And each "select fit" slice yielded more of the grains!  Finally, I got it trimmed so the door closed and it didn't erode the weatherstrip it seated against.  To it's credit, it's still on the car now. 

 

I went back and re-checked the part/casting number on the rh side and it all matched.  Checked other online catalogs and it all matched.  Yet it did NOT fit correctly!  It is better than what was on the car, so anything would have been an improvement.  Only did that one side.

 

An observed issue is that what some might use to build their jigs and such with might not really be what they were supposed to be.  Or they were from a later version that is supposed to be "fit all".

 

Other than the heater core needing replacement (for the second time in its life), I got a 2000 (then 2005) Impala for my daily vehicle.  Aside from the better fuel economy and working hvac system, it was "something the young 'uns would know what they were looking at when they were working on it", even if it was a simple oil change.  Until the Camaro gets going again, it's under the carport.  It will "go again" as time progresses, with some modern upgrades, as time, money, and priorities progress.

 

Just like always, we need to know what parts work and where to get them.  Having a great resource of salvage yard parts nearby, as Beemon has, can be very important.  Plus the knowledge base of these forums (even if the source must be mentioned in a PM).

 

NTX5467

 

[Mudbone]

5 hours ago, Beemon said:

I'm surprised the stuff from Centerville didn't fit, they're supposed to be the number one for hot rod Buicks. But then again, I've been ripped off plenty by the big "number ones"...

 

Mandrel bent dual exhaust that required a month wait with a $500 deposit only to drop it off and on the third day I get a call they just ordered materials after reserving a month out,  went somewhere else after they told me my car wasnt worth anything (body is missing half the paint)...

 

Had my pump and steering gear rebuilt by Lares, bearing assembled incorrectly on the pump shaft and ate the back side of my pulley that caused it to wobble and erode both the woodruff key and shaft itself, not to mention the gear box has excessive play and is considered dangerous at any speed above 40mph... replaced pump with a rusty old junkyard piece...

 

Or when I had my distributor out for "rebuild" and they recurved it to a Chevy engine without telling me and I could never figure out went u kept having a idle hunt around 600 rpm and could never get it to sit right. ... Also pulled a junkyard piece for that. 

 

Or having a carb rebuilt by three different outfits that still didn't work properly. .... the list goes on. 

 

No honesty from any suppliers I've dealt with, so I learned my lesson of "do it yourself because no one else cares". The "close enough" or "rebuild just means new seals" mentality is rampant. 

 

I feel your pain. I was so upset I made this video. Now I can Laugh about it.  

 

 

[Mark Gregory]

Excellent Mudbone ! I have seen stupidity from so called experts and it is getting worse . What are we car owners going to do in 10 years from now ?

[NTX5467]

1 hour ago, Mark Gregory said:

Excellent Mudbone ! I have seen stupidity from so called experts and it is getting worse . What are we car owners going to do in 10 years from now ?

 

MUCH LESS those that come after us!  It's not isolated to just Buicks, either!  Problem is that some "stuff" on the Internet is "suspect", but it can turn up in a multitude of different locations, which further complicates finding what's really correct.  As with "news credibility", the more times it's repeated, the perceived greater credibility it receives.  But it can also relate to the fact that those who perceived it to be correct were "just as lost" as others seeking similar information, hence "credibility".

 

Used to be that an "expert" was somebody that was in the top 10% of their field (or thereabouts), in the days of "Perry Mason", but now an "expert" or "knowledgeable" can be anybody that might know a bit more than "you" do, which can be dangerous in some respects.  AND it doesn't matter if the "suspect" information is in print or electronic media!!!  Just as it was 30 years ago, the credible sources of information MUST be found and remembered who/where they are.  One observation is that a pseudo-expert might readily acknowledge his alleged position and bestowed status, but a "true expert" is usually more humble about what others say about his/her knowledge. 

 

Neat vid, Mudbone!

 

NTX5467

[Beemon]

2 hours ago, Mark Gregory said:

Excellent Mudbone ! I have seen stupidity from so called experts and it is getting worse . What are we car owners going to do in 10 years from now ?

 

For people that have been restoring and enjoying these vehicles for many years, it might come as a shock when the industry finally winds down and starts focusing on more modern vintage vehicles, such as 70s-80s. For me, who just started around  2010 and didn't pick up any speed until 2015, it's been really painful because the information that was around 20 or so years ago is very scarce now. I owe these forums a great deal of gratitude, countless hours using the search feature, staying up late trying to find threads that date back to even 2005 on issues that are similar to mine. The only difference being that a part 10 years ago or more that was once referenced, or for example, a part number for a new starter relay that is now obsolete, doesn't exist. I wish I could have gotten started on my Buick years ago because it must have been easier 10 years ago, but then I would have only been 14. Chevy/Mopar/Ford have it easy for the abundance of bolt-in accessories and components which probably won't go away, but for everything else there is next to nothing and slowly dwindling. And at what point due the unfortunate circumstance of many people who hold knowledge or operate business eventually pass in 20 or 30 years from now, thus leaving a generation that has no interest? Or when there's no such thing as NOS parts or they become so rare that it will cost you $400 for a 2 barrel air cleaner? It's already there with some parts, just the unfortunate future of the classic car industry. Everyone wants to keep their cars 100% stock or at least 98%, but there will come a time where it won't be possible anymore.

[NTX5467]

We went through a period in the earlier 1980s BEFORE the restoration parts industry started picking up steam, which was a "dead spot" of sorts.  What some of the major players in the repro parts industry had in their catalogs were usually what was available from the OEMs themselves (who still had some residual stock available, which dwindled later or was scrapped due to low sales rates).  There were generally more salvage yards around back then, so that was a valuable source or used parts to refurbish or rebuild. 

 

This was also the era wen "counterfeit parts" started to surface.  Trademark/copyright infringement lawsuits seemed to be prevalent and resulted in the later OEM licensing of repro products the OEMs didn't want to produce themselves.

 

On that last item, repro OEM parts from the OEMs, when Chrysler started to get into the repro parts market, as Chrysler operative Larry Sheppard related in seminars each year at Mopar Nationals, they tried to go back to the original vendors they used for the original parts, using the original blueprints, where possible.  This proved to be an issue as some of the vendors had "lost" the original blueprints, so Chrysler had to find theirs.  But not all of these repro parts were exactly correct, in some respects.

 

For example, when an OEM part is first sold, it can go through several revisions during it's production life.  Different graphics on it, possibly some internal upgrades, all of which can generate a DIFFERENT OEM part number.  That's the normal way that things go at the OEMs.  So if you ordered a new voltage regulator for a 1972 Chrysler, in 1974, the cosmetics of the item could not be an exact match for the part on the vehicle, but "form, fit, and function" would be accurate for "plug and play" replacements.  And that's the way things usually are for Ford, GM, and others.  This can make the NOS OEM items "gold" for some people!  The ones who stock-piled them when the original items were still available, prior to the next-model-year's changes.

 

It's been "a jungle" out there for quite some time, BUT unlike 30 years ago, the magic of long-distance 1-800 phone numbers and more good vendors (for the muscle car era vehicles) with "the right stuff" came about in the 1990s, so "waving the magic plastic" became an alternative to slogging through salvage yards hundreds of miles away.  As good as some of the repro trim items were, if you knew what you were looking at, you could tell it was repro (as in the stitching on sun visors), back then.

 

In some cases, what went on "muscle cars" was the same part for "regular" cars of similar years, so there's some overlap (not admitted to in the catalogs, sometimes).  You have to know or figure out this stuff, or see if it might work on what you've got.

 

Things have gotten much better in some areas, but there are still some "dead spots" for particular brands and models of vehicles.

 

Do your research, due diligence, check return policies, and proceed as best you can.

 

NTX5467

[Ttotired]

Having 2 mopars of the same era as my buick, I dont see much difference in the parts hunt for either, some stuff, there seems to be lots of, other stuff is made of "unobtanium"

I try not to rag on the reproduction companies too much and neither should any of you. What I am getting at is pick a random part on your car, say a switch knob, a pulley, even a filter, now make it!

If you get a part thats not right, talk to the vendor, provide pictures, basically help them to help you.

90% of the repair sections I bought for my plymouth and my dodge didnt fit and as I couldnt get all the sections from 1 supplier, I also dealt with supposed adjoining sections with totally different profiles.

Not much point telling them anything though as the panels are stamped in dies that are old and worn out and once they get enough complaints that the panels are to far wrong or nobody buys them anymore, the dies will vanish.

Lap it up while the parts are available and try to help the guys that invest a lot of money into making the reproduction parts for your car.

By the way, look at my location. 2 1/2 day wait for parts is what dreams are made of, try an average of 3 weeks, let alone the cost

 

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Ttotired
more content (see edit history)

[buick5563]

The difference between Bob's, Fusick and The Jersey folks is that you can tell Bob or  Fusick the motor mounts are no good and they say they won't sell them until they are right. YOU are ALWAYS wrong when help is offered to the East coast supplier. I have known about this problem for years. Cars and Classic (who is just a reseller) still sell them. 

Get them revulcanized at Steele. 

[buick man]

22 hours ago, Beemon said:

 

For people that have been restoring and enjoying these vehicles for many years, it might come as a shock when the industry finally winds down and starts focusing on more modern vintage vehicles, such as 70s-80s. For me, who just started around  2010 and didn't pick up any speed until 2015, it's been really painful because the information that was around 20 or so years ago is very scarce now. I owe these forums a great deal of gratitude, countless hours using the search feature, staying up late trying to find threads that date back to even 2005 on issues that are similar to mine. The only difference being that a part 10 years ago or more that was once referenced, or for example, a part number for a new starter relay that is now obsolete, doesn't exist. I wish I could have gotten started on my Buick years ago because it must have been easier 10 years ago, but then I would have only been 14. Chevy/Mopar/Ford have it easy for the abundance of bolt-in accessories and components which probably won't go away, but for everything else there is next to nothing and slowly dwindling. And at what point due the unfortunate circumstance of many people who hold knowledge or operate business eventually pass in 20 or 30 years from now, thus leaving a generation that has no interest? Or when there's no such thing as NOS parts or they become so rare that it will cost you $400 for a 2 barrel air cleaner? It's already there with some parts, just the unfortunate future of the classic car industry. Everyone wants to keep their cars 100% stock or at least 98%, but there will come a time where it won't be possible anymore.

…. guess the folks in Cuba could give a few lessons to all of us on how to keep and modify our stocker. -  " …. Yes to keep it running,  It may kinda look like a 53 but inside & under it is many years señor ! "

[NTX5467]

Finding an "embedded" auto supply with people who have been there for years, has some product knowledge of the vehicle AND the parts that fit on it, and does what they can via their dusty catalogs and current vendors, are PRICELESS resources--period.  With all of the hoopla over certain vendors in far-flung locations, those vendors most probably don't make those parts themselves, but GET them somewhere.  Finding that "somewhere" can be "a search", but probably can be done with a willing local partner.

 

In prior times, there usually were some "Illustration" books to accompany the related parts books.  THOSE can be invaluable, too, when available.  Numeric listings are another resource.  All of these were either a part of the main parts book or were separate books.  That way, you can see what the part is, rather than a "representative" picture on many current websites.  Only thing is that you'd need catalogs printed in the earlier 1970s, at the latest, to get the '50s-60s era parts illustrated.  Back then, not many suppliers readily gave these illustrated catalogs out, normally sending out the main catalogs only.  The main catalogs, though, usually had notes which might verbally describe the part, in general.

 

Maybe you can score some of these old catalogs before they are "recycled"!

 

Admittedly, there are some great parts vendors who are not local to your locale.  Finding the good ones is great to do! 

 

NTX5467

Edited August 30, 2016 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[maok]

7 hours ago, Ttotired said:

Having 2 mopars of the same era as my buick, I dont see much difference in the parts hunt for either, some stuff, there seems to be lots of, other stuff is made of "unobtanium"

I try not to rag on the reproduction companies too much and neither should any of you. What I am getting at is pick a random part on your car, say a switch knob, a pulley, even a filter, now make it!

If you get a part thats not right, talk to the vendor, provide pictures, basically help them to help you.

90% of the repair sections I bought for my plymouth and my dodge didnt fit and as I couldnt get all the sections from 1 supplier, I also dealt with supposed adjoining sections with totally different profiles.

Not much point telling them anything though as the panels are stamped in dies that are old and worn out and once they get enough complaints that the panels are to far wrong or nobody buys them anymore, the dies will vanish.

Lap it up while the parts are available and try to help the guys that invest a lot of money into making the reproduction parts for your car.

By the way, look at my location. 2 1/2 day wait for parts is what dreams are made of, try an average of 3 weeks, let alone the cost

 

 

 

And don't forget the overseas 'TAX'.

[avgwarhawk]

I don't know....much of what I purchase from the suppliers works ok.   Longevity of the parts remains in question.  I'm happy there are several places to call on for parts.   

[buick5563]

5 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

I don't know....much of what I purchase from the suppliers works ok.   Longevity of the parts remains in question.  I'm happy there are several places to call on for parts.   

 

I'm not pooping on the suppliers' parts. I have used all of them in the past and will buy from them again when I absolutely have to. My main gripe is that there is no competition so they don't have to be nice or fast. Ever buy Chevy parts? They ship as fast as Amazon. Friendly too. (This last statement is not about Bob's or Fusick.)

[avgwarhawk]

21 hours ago, buick5563 said:

 

I'm not pooping on the suppliers' parts. I have used all of them in the past and will buy from them again when I absolutely have to. My main gripe is that there is no competition so they don't have to be nice or fast. Ever buy Chevy parts? They ship as fast as Amazon. Friendly too. (This last statement is not about Bob's or Fusick.)

 

 Personally I find more issue using USPS for shipped parts.    Without going into the trials and tribulations concerning the USPS, I request UPS and pay a bit more.  It is worth the extra not to have to make calls and tracking from start to finish to assure your item does not end up in a Hoboken NJ pizza joint.    

[Guest]

On 8/28/2016 at 10:02 PM, Mark Gregory said:

Excellent Mudbone ! I have seen stupidity from so called experts and it is getting worse . What are we car owners going to do in 10 years from now ?

Maybe they should be called out by name now! ID them and then invite their rebuttal! Money seems to be their God. Maybe if they lose a little becuz no one wants to get ripped by them, they will think a little more about customer service before they try to make it the buyers fault just to get rid of the problem. Some tire guy gets to be a TV celeb. Then he says he doesn't have to warranty his bad tires even though they barely have the hairs wore off and people's lives are at stake with faulty tires? Where does it end with these guys? Isn't Cars Inc known for selling repo mid fifties Buick motor mounts that are so far off you have to grind them to fit. Sound familiar ghaskett? Shoddy goods don't just cost extra upfront. Time lost when you shouldn't have to, but are forced to re-engineer the poor quality, making something that should have been an enjoyable hobby frustrating as heck instead. Shame on em! Trouble is, unless you can impact their bottom line, they just read stuff like this and laugh it off like a drug dealer who knows you don't have an alternative. If wishes were horses a one-man boycott would work! No more Coker for me!

[NTX5467]

In many cases, WE in this forum, are not the entire customer base of any parts vendor/source.  Kind of like a "big city car dealer", of sorts, if you don't like what they do or how they do it, there are others waiting behind you to get to their product.  Whereas for a "small town dealership", they NEED each and every customer, so they can usually go farther to ensure you return for more things in the future.  Good customer service doesn't cost any more than what some end up getting, but it can take a little more time to make it happen. 

 

As mentioned, if you get something that doesn't seem to be correct, contact the vendor with your concerns.  You can ultimately request they generate a "pick-up order" to return the items to them (or you ship it back to them, with appropriate packaging and such), provided they have a good return policy, but it could end up costing a re-stock fee plus the shipping expenses.  Be SURE to use an abundance of packing material in the container, possibly even insure it (if past the "free insurance" level), just to make sure.  Then YOU can have the tracking number and signature information to inquire as to when you might receive your credit.

 

There are probably some people who figure that getting parts that don't fit without some "tweaking" is a normal situation for parts for old cars.  Even some late model parts need a little tweaking, sometimes!  But it all gets back to the old deal of searching for the best brands of parts, like we did in the 1960s and so on, knowing which brands the mechanics usually used, knowing which ones were "less expensive" and the ones which were the best investment.

 

In the specific case of motor mounts, MANY vehicles have been known to have weakened front crossmembers, which sag with time and use.  This can affect how the motor mounts might line-up and such.  IF when you look up front suspension control arm bushings, if you find a "camber compensation bushing", that's code for "sagged crossmember".  Not something which could be eye ball-apparent, but happens.  I first heard of the sagged crossmember syndrome regarding 1960s-70s big block Chevelles.  Later, I learned that '55 Chevys had the same issues (with small block V-8s!).  So don't rule that completely out for any other vehicle.  Be that as it may.

 

End result is that there are some places where we take what we can get, trying to find the best parts, but others where good parts are the way things happen, normally.

 

NTX5467