FrankWest107 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Can a v8 with proper transmission be basically bolted in in this car model. I hear that the 4 cylinder engine is actually physically larger than the v8 and I know a new v8 trans would be required, but can this then basically be bolted in without major modifications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Call Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 The answer is yes, all parts to install a flathead V8 are readily available. But, why would you want to do that? A surviving 4 cylinder (Model 32 thru 34 Ford is pretty rare, 34 was the last year of 4 cylinder Fords, and V8's are a dime a dozen and you can buy virtually every part to build a new V8 car. The Model B 4 cylinder engine (34 sometimes incorrectly referred to as Model C, there was no Model C) is basically the Model A with full pressure oiling system and other minor improvements.If you want a hot rodded 34 buy one already built it will be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 It sounds like Frank wants to go from an original 4 to an original 8....which, purist that I am, I'd be tempted to do also...you could keep the original 4 on a stand, and have a much nicer driving car...I wouldn't consider that hot rodding, just a period change that's easily reversible.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Considering the number of V8 vs 4 cylinder Fords it would probably be easier and cheaper to sell or trade the 4 for an 8. Not to mention, preserving an extremely rare car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWest107 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Considering the number of V8 vs 4 cylinder Fords it would probably be easier and cheaper to sell or trade the 4 for an 8. Not to mention, preserving an extremely rare car.I hate HOTRODS! I love history.Is it true that the 4 cylinder engine is physically larger than the v8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I have seen the 33,34 Ford engines. They are quoted as "C" engines as that is what is cast in the Heads and such. You are correct that a Model C was never official. But these engines are easy to identify because of the casting marks. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 In late 32 the crankshafts were counterbalanced. That was supposed to be the reason for the "C" on the head. The water pump and fan is also shorter on the 33 and 34 engine to accomodate the leaning back of the grille/radiator. I had a C marked engine but the crank wasn't counterbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yup, I remember that the water pump had 3 bolts holding it to the head instead of 4 like the Model A's. This is an easy way to identify a B head. The 33-34's had a C cast in the head. If I was standing by one I could rattle off other features I have not thought about for years. Some of them have already been mentioned, Like full pressure oiling. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binger Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Another nice thing about the B motors is that they have a fuel pump. They are also fragile. It is rare to find one that doesn't have cracks between the valves and the cylinder. The model B water pump bolts to the removable water neck where the A's bolt to the head. FrankWest107 I would be interested in the 4 cyl if you happened to decide to pull it out and go with the V8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWest107 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Another nice thing about the B motors is that they have a fuel pump. They are also fragile. It is rare to find one that doesn't have cracks between the valves and the cylinder. The model B water pump bolts to the removable water neck where the A's bolt to the head. FrankWest107 I would be interested in the 4 cyl if you happened to decide to pull it out and go with the V8.where can I find a 1933 v8 and assume i need a trans too.I am not sure the trans for the 4 cylinder will mesh with the v8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Call Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 The 4 cylinder is a Model A refined it has a Model A trans. You need to find a good shop manual for the 33 - 34 V8 cars so you know what you are dealing with. You will also need a 33-34 radiator. Another question is the motor mounts. Did the 4 cylinder car have the same frame front crossmember as the V8? Is the clutch linkage the same.I would suggest that you go to the Fordbarn forum on www.jalopyjurnal.com there will be guys there that will know all the answers. Also, look for a local chapter and join The Early Ford V8 club. Fordbarn would also be a good place to look for a 33-34 engine and trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 If I were to do this the first thing I would do is check with my DMV to find out how easy it is to change to the title to the new motor number, if the motor number were used as the VIN. There are a lot of horror stories about cars being sold and the problems that arise when the VIN on the title (or registration) cannot be found on the car. I know a lot of you say just have a tag made, etc but after reading the latest version of the New York State rules and regs it is not a viable option - the penalties are too great. And New York has historically been one of the easiest states to modify registrations in .. it appears that it's a whole new ballgame out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 This would be a better route the the Early V8 site on the Fordbarnhttp://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4There are people on there who have made this swap and can tell you exactly what is required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWest107 Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 Most antique cars have had the engines swapped out several times, because original engines usually die out beyond the point of repair. Are you sure these restrictions apply to antique cars? It would be very hard to find an antique auto where all the parts several numbers match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Every state is different, at this time many states never physically check the VIN, some states only physically check the VIN on cars purchased in other states, some states are starting to go back and check them at renewal. You can search this forum, fordbarn, chevytalk, and numerous other forums for examples, there are many. One that comes to mind is : http://forums.aaca.org/f169/1931-model-370847.html - there is an excellent and lengthy commentary by Matt Harwood on how title problems affect his business.My intent was to advise the OP that it would be better to address this issue up front than after the fact. My warning on obtaining newly manufactured VIN plates or any of the other formerly quasi legal ways around title issues that involve alterations is because in many states it is now a crime. New York can confiscate your car and sell it (after legal proceedings, of course). Try selling a high dollar early Corvette without the rosette rivets and see what happens.Below is the Michigan law regarding id tags, rosette rivets,etc. If you don't believe that they are at least occasionally enforced read a few other forums."750.415(5) A person shall not knowingly possess, buy, deliver, or offer to buy, sell, exchange, or give away any manufacturer's vehicle identification number plate, federal safety certification label, antitheft label, posident die stamps, secretary of state vehicle identification label, rosette rivet, or any facsimile thereof. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle manufacturer, a motor vehicle parts supplier under contract with a motor vehicle manufacturer, or a law enforcement officer in the official performance of his or her duties or to a motor vehicle in which a manufacturer's vehicle identification plate and each of the applicable labels listed in this subsection have been installed as prescribed by law. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years, a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both. If the person who violates this subsection is a licensed dealer or repair facility, its license shall be revoked."This is going to become more and more of an issue in the future ... it is far easier for the current owner to take care of these issues than the future purchaser.Just my opinion .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binger Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 The 4 cylinder is a Model A refined it has a Model A trans. You need to find a good shop manual for the 33 - 34 V8 cars so you know what you are dealing with. You will also need a 33-34 radiator. Another question is the motor mounts. Did the 4 cylinder car have the same frame front crossmember as the V8? Is the clutch linkage the same.I would suggest that you go to the Fordbarn forum on www.jalopyjurnal.com there will be guys there that will know all the answers. Also, look for a local chapter and join The Early Ford V8 club. Fordbarn would also be a good place to look for a 33-34 engine and trans.The B has a different Transmission than the A does. It has a different flywheel cover and bell housing. The Flywheel housing is 2 piece with the bottom part welded to the oil pan. I do believe that it is different than the V8 transmissions also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lucyfernadiz Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Yes you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 ^^^^We now have the definitive answer^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWest107 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Share Posted May 29, 2014 Another nice thing about the B motors is that they have a fuel pump. They are also fragile. It is rare to find one that doesn't have cracks between the valves and the cylinder. The model B water pump bolts to the removable water neck where the A's bolt to the head. FrankWest107 I would be interested in the 4 cyl if you happened to decide to pull it out and go with the V8.Are these cracks repairable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Yes Sir, Anything is repairable if you are willing to spend enough time and money. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 The older flathead Ford V8 engines are also susceptible to cracking. I remember Rod & Custom doing a rebuild article and I believe that over 50 percent of the blocks they looked at had minor cracks in the valve area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Yes Sir, Seen that myself. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankWest107 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Share Posted May 29, 2014 Yes Sir, Anything is repairable if you are willing to spend enough time and money. Dandy Dave!I have to remember this unique answer, Captain Obvious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Drag a head light, and a few photos of Great Grandpa's fathers uncles 1895 Whatsit Horseless Mobile and if you have enough money and plenty of time it can be recreated from another that still exists half way around the world, or from some old blue prints if they still exist. Not practical of feasible, but possible. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 You aren't kidding. Get a load of this Napier Samson race car. It is a one off, built in 1904 for grand prix racing. After a few years it was sent to Australia where in due course, the car was scrapped and the engine was installed in a speedboat.It was rebuilt in the 90s by Bob Chamberlain, an Australian tractor and auto parts manufacturer. All he had to start with was what was left of the original engine, and copies of the original blueprints. Every other part of the car, and a large part of the engine, had to be made from scratch.http://www.mister-cars.com/Article/1904-Napier-L48-Samson-/1738 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Absolutly. You are Correct. :cool: Did I mention that is very cool. It was built with 100 to 150 year + old Tech. Why not today? We were able to build Locomotives in the 1840's to 1860's. We can recreate anything. Ahh yesss. Forward we go. Dandy Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I have a pint jar full of rust one of my employees collected from a Duesenberg we worked on years ago. Anyone interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermontboy Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Well I'm not interested but it might be fun to put it on ebay and see what it would bring !!! Stranger things have happened on that marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I have a pint jar full of rust one of my employees collected from a Duesenberg we worked on years ago. Anyone interested?Ahh yesss. Bring several Million to start and we will turn that bottle of rust into a reproduced Duesy! Not feasable, but possible. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoringicons Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Don't forget you will also have to change radiators-the four cylinder cars have one outlet and one inlet, the V8 engine cars have two outlets and two inlets.In terms of the VIN, 1934s should be titled by the VIN number on the frame which is on the top near the steering box. A four cylinder car will have a vin number beginning with B-xxxxxxx and a V-8 car will have a vin number starting with 18-xxxxxxxx. So, you can still use the same VIN number (assuming it is titled with the right frame number) but anyone with any Ford knowledge will know it started it's life as a 4.Would I make the change? Yes, but since it is not original anyway, I would go with the later 85 or 100 HP flathead V-8 instead of the 1934 V-8.. These are easier to find, easier to fix and you can buy lots of reproduction aftermarket speed parts for them. They also make more horsepower and are less prone to the problems of the earlier V-8 engines. I would keep the original four cylinder just in case you want to return the car to original or the next owner does.Good luck and keep us posted. Edited June 3, 2014 by motoringicons (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Don't forget you will also have to change radiators-the four cylinder model's have two outlets, the V8 engine cars have four (two on top, two on bottom)In terms of the VIN, 1934s should be titled by the VIN number on the frame which is on the top near the steering box. A four cylinder car will have a vin number beginning with B-xxxxxxx and a V-8 car will have a number starting with 18-xxxxxxxx. So, you can still use the same VIN number (assuming it is titled with the right number) but anyone with any Ford knowledge will know it started it's life as a 4.Say Dude, I have one of those 8 cylinder Rad's in the shed, You need it? It is available. I was also standing next to a 32 that took best of show this past weekend. Best of show, Columbia Car Club.Chatham NY. Wrenching on a 27Gaderner.... Use to be part of the Bill Harrah collection. I just keep slipping in ancient old car grease and rust... you should see the cream puff that landed in my yard this past weekend. thththhthtthhththt... Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac59 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Put it this way. If you V8 the 4-cyl car, it will be a hot rod. It may be all factory parts, but it still will be an altered, non-original car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I vote V8Nailhead Buick V8If you're going to hot rod go whole hog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I vote V8Nailhead Buick V8If you're going to hot rod go whole hogWhy Stop there? Might as well Drop in a 455 with a 400 turo and get er done and over with. :eek: Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhambulldog Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 A 425 Nailhead with a switchpitch TH400 would be my choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Ahhh, Did I mention a 9 inch Ford Posi Rear end is also in order. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 seems that you should sell it...4cyl is rare.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now