New torch.

[Dandy Dave]

In this hobby we are always in need of a Fire wrench around the shop for one reason or another. Check out this torch that is being developed and tested... Dandy Dave!

http://www.safeflameproject.eu/

[Guest Magoo]

Fascinating, thanks!

[joe_padavano]

So the only thing new and "safe" about it is that rather than using bottled gases, it generates the hydrogen and oxygen real-time as you use it? Sorry, sounds like the answer to the question nobody asked. More to the point, how do the generated get pressurized so the torch works? Is there a pump of some kind also? And there's a 230V umbilical cord attached?

[Rusty_OToole]

Funny thing, just the other day I watched a Youtube video about the same device, built by a Florida man in the 1980s. He said he developed the system for welding then went on to convert his Ford Escort to run on hydrogen.

The video showed using the torch to cut and weld steel, melt bronze, and even burn up some kind of stone.

He held the torch to a sheet of ceramic tile and you could see the water condense and run off in drips and drops. He claimed it was economical, safe and pollution free.

[c49er]

I use my blue tip OA torch to heat cold metal and lotsa water droplets form on it to! Amazing.

[Guest Magoo]

So the only thing new and "safe" about it is that rather than using bottled gases, it generates the hydrogen and oxygen real-time as you use it? Sorry, sounds like the answer to the question nobody asked. More to the point, how do the generated get pressurized so the torch works? Is there a pump of some kind also? And there's a 230V umbilical cord attached?

Depending on the purchase cost (platinum etc) I could see the potential appeal in such a rig. Welding bottles are not terribly economical for one-man shops like mine, and the landlord of the business park, insurance company, and fire dept. aren't totally keen on them, either. (While they currently allow them, they tend to give them one eyebrow.) I assume the 230V supply is for EU use and that 120V would probably be sufficient if required. I'm not volunteering to beta test the machine but I do think it's interesting enough to watch from middle distance.

[Bhigdog]

Interesting but really doesn't fill a burning ( pun intended ) need. As far as bottled gases go they're easy, fast, economical and work great. I'm guessing the H2O set up would like distilled water, use a fair amount of electric, require cleaning and maintenance, take a certain amount of lead time to generate the gas, be subject to freezing damage, require a power cord etc etc. On the other hand the unit is most likely lighter than a set of tanks and perhaps for some exotic applications the flame would be cleaner than O/A.................Bob

[ply33]

Depending on the purchase cost (platinum etc) I could see the potential appeal in such a rig. Welding bottles are not terribly economical for one-man shops like mine, and the landlord of the business park, insurance company, and fire dept. aren't totally keen on them, either. (While they currently allow them, they tend to give them one eyebrow.) I assume the 230V supply is for EU use and that 120V would probably be sufficient if required. I'm not volunteering to beta test the machine but I do think it's interesting enough to watch from middle distance.

Where is that like button when you want it?

Got rid of my OA a long while ago as I wasn't using it much and worried about the safety aspects of having it in a wood framed attached garage located in earthquake country. Are these chains really strong enough to hold it upright against the wall? Is this garage wall structurally sound enough to remain standing when the ground moves? Something that has no combustible components when it is off is interesting enough to keep an eye on.

[Restorer32]

Anyone remember the Hindenberg?

[ply33]

Anyone remember the Hindenberg?

An object lesson in painting the whole craft with what amounted to solid rocket fuel.

Not sure what the Hindenberg has to do with the torch. Quite a big difference in having many hundreds of cubic feet of hydrogen in bags versus probably less than one cubic foot in what is probably a solid container.

[R.White]

I want one. The guy recons it will be 20 times cheaper than OA. This is being developed just down the road from me; I will keep an eye on progress and report back with any news.

Ray.

[Restorer32]

Oxy hydrogen torches have been around for over 100 years.The primary and as yet unsolved problem is that it takes more energy to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen than burning the resultant gases produces. Seems to me that producing enough gas to keep a burning torch llt for an extended time would require quite a bit of electricity or at least a large storage tank. Somehow I doubt an insurer will look any more kindly on a device that uses electricity to produce an explosive gas. When was the last time you read about a serious

accident involving oxy acetylene tanks? It's neat technology but unlikley to show up at Harbor Freight any time soon.

[MarrsCars]

I'm apparently in the minority here but I really like this concept. If you strip everything else away and simply look at the basics, water supply v/s stored gas the advantages seems obvious. Many are making some rather wild presumptions, we can't count all those proposed cons that are based on speculation, nor the pros of course, but maybe it is just a simple as hooking up a water supply line fitted with a filter to purify and the gas is created on demand. Clearly my own supposition but it seems the main difference is the fuel source not reinventing the wheel from nothing. Neat post!

[joe_padavano]

I'm apparently in the minority here but I really like this concept. If you strip everything else away and simply look at the basics, water supply v/s stored gas the advantages seems obvious. Many are making some rather wild presumptions, we can't count all those proposed cons that are based on speculation, nor the pros of course, but maybe it is just a simple as hooking up a water supply line fitted with a filter to purify and the gas is created on demand. Clearly my own supposition but it seems the main difference is the fuel source not reinventing the wheel from nothing. Neat post!

The problem is reducing theory to practice. As noted above, the hydrolysis process to generate hydrogen and oxygen from water is extremely energy inefficient. Second, I have to assume that contaminates in the water will cause problems with the quality of the gas generated, so tap water may not be a suitable source - you might need purified dionized water. Third, how what is the rate of gas generation vs. how fast you use it in the torch? I'm guessing that "just in time" is not suitable, given the differing gas use for different sized tips (especially a cutting tip) so some storage medium will be required. And speaking of a cutting tip, which uses much more oxygen than fuel, what do you do with the excess hydrogen (since generating oxygen also generates hydrogen)? Finally, since each tip requires a specific gas pressure and flow rate, how do you increase the pressure of the generated gasses to that needed to operate the torch? Are there pumps involved?

Again, this is a neat parlor trick, but I don't see the benefit in the real world (or real garage).

[Dandy Dave]

I want one. The guy recons it will be 20 times cheaper than OA. This is being developed just down the road from me; I will keep an eye on progress and report back with any news.

Ray.

LIKE!

[R.White]

[Rusty_OToole]

Went to Youtube and did a search for hydrogen torch and got over 3000 videos. The first page all seemed to be about welding torches and what we are discussing here. So there seems to be lots of them around, some home made.

Hydrogen torch demonstration from the 90s.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

O/H torches, both electric and storage, have been around in dozens of permutations for a looong time.....................Bob

[FLYER15015]

Many years ago ('70's-'80's) when I was in the foundry supply business, we sold "Water Welders" for a company in Phoenix, Az.,

to the investment casting foundries all over the country, to weld the wax patterns onto the tree.

It was about the size of 2 shoeboxes, ran on 110 volts, and used distilled water. It would support about 10 work stations and produced a flame about 1/4' long from a #10 surgical needle attached to a quarter inch stainless tube handle.

This thing worked so much better than the soldering irons then in use, that we sold a lot of these machines.

The only problem we had was in shipping. If you ever turned it upside down, it would not work, and UPS did that with several deliveries, despite the big red arrows on the boxes. Never could understand why this caused a problem, but the unit was sealed and taped, like a crime scene, and if the tape was torn, no refund and no replacement.

Now we know it was a "Brown's Gas" generator making HHO.

Mike in Colorado

[Dandy Dave]

From everything that I have read about Hydrogen generators in the past, the bigest problem is the "Heavy Water" that is left behind. It seems like, no matter what, there is always a trade off that is not enviormentally friendly. Dandy Dave!

[R Walling]

The sky is falling, The sky is falling, better that we stick to hammer welding over a coal fire.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Roger Walling
sp (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

The sky is falling, The sky is falling, better that we stick to hammer welding over a coal fire.

I actually do a bit of that from time to time. As much art as science. Just like an O/H torch might be best for some applications, forge welding on an anvil might be best for others. Both are just another tool in a persons box. BTW, just as an aside, welding steel with an O/H torch is problematic because of hydrogen embrittlement in the weld zone................Bob

Edited December 1, 2013 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

I have done some Black Smithing myself in the past. It's fun. A mix of old and new can lead to some real dandy stuff. Dandy Dave!

[Bhigdog]

I have done some Black Smithing myself in the past. It's fun. A mix of old and new can lead to some real dandy stuff. Dandy Dave!

Yup, kind of satisfying coaxing a hunk of yellow hot steel into shape......................Bob

[Paul Dobbin]

I can't delete this message.

 

This site can’t be reached

www.safeflameproject.eu took too long to respond.

Try:

• Checking the connection
• Checking the proxy and the firewall
• Running Windows Network Diagnostics

ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT

Edited June 1, 2020 by Paul Dobbin (see edit history)

[padgett]

You mean https://www.safeflame-uk.com/