New idea

[DAVES89]

I have a client that owns a plastic manufacturing company. I was in to see him last week, but time was short and he was busy, but not to busy to show me his latest purchase. It is a computer run molder that can read an item in 3 dimensions and the "make it out of plastic/abs. I thought about it and went back to see this guy today only this time I took in the Door handle plastic ends for the '88/89 Reatta. He said he would make me a prototype and let me know what he comes up with. He did caution me that it will look a bit different because this machine is not an injection mold machine and of course the cost of going that way are prohibitive.

At any rate I will see what he comes up with.

I am not asking for any commitments from anyone, I just want to let you know. I did make it clear to him that if there was any interest it would be from the "daily driver" crowd and that it would have to be affordable.

Is this something of interest and do you have any other ideas for other hard to find parts?

[NCReatta]

Ill take 60 of each at least. Probably more if they're good stuff.

[DAVES89]

Not what I asked. Glad to know you are interested.

Please I am not looking for commitments. Looking for support and any ideas for other small items. I hope to have a working prototype to show at the Reunion.

[Ronnie]

Good idea Dave. I hope it works out that you can get some hard to find parts made.

[Barney Eaton]

May I suggest that if you are looking at making both parts, the inner part and the outer part, revise the design of the inner part to be stronger.

It has been my experience the inner part breaks, it no longer holds the outer part securely and you loose the outer part.

[DAVES89]

Thanks Barney, that is the plan. I gave him a perfect one and showed him one that was damaged. He is going to make it a bit different. From the way he talked it was going to be more of a "plug" design with it being mostly plastic/ABS. The base would be solid on all 4 sides and then the hole at the bottom for the screw would be reinforced. The cover will "look" the same but maybe mount onto the "plug" by way of a trim fastener. The cover will have a different texture [if a texture at all].

What we are trying to do is remove the need for the machine to make more "cuts". This would allow the end product to be made more quickly, as time, not material is what would drive up the cost. He told me that the machine costs $30.00 an hour to run and I quickly said that would be too expensive as I anticipated 1 per hour. But he said that he could probably make 6 at a time if the design was simple. And depending on the time required to make them maybe we could get 12 or more per hour.

Because he stated that it would be very expensive to make an exact replacement, and that while he could make it look the same, it would not work as the machine could not make the "undercuts" required for the cover to snap on to the base. So we would have a "correct" piece that would look good but would be worthless.

It will not be expensive. I told him that it had to be priced to sell for less then $10.00 a piece. 1 piece equals one end. In other words each door would need two pieces, one for each end of the handle.

[1939_Buick]

Reads like its a 3d printer (industrial type), Getting the correct color or paintable may be an issue

Another thread here http://forums.aaca.org/f169/3d-printing-unique-hard-finds-parts-342046.html

[harry yarnell]

How about '90 horn buttons?

[Ronnie]

Doesn't Jim Finn still keep new pull strap end caps in stock for the '88-89 models? I get some from him a few years ago. It wouldn't make sense to reproduce them if they are still available.

[DAVES89]

Hey if Jim has them and they are still available that is great. I would just abandon the project. I had thought that like many other trim pieces they no longer were available. I have enough of these [that I got off salvage cars] to last me, I was just looking out for others...

Maybe Jim can tell us what he has and what he knows.

[Ronnie]

I looked at my records and I got the end caps from him in June 2007 so it has been longer than I thought.

Here is what Jim had to say about them in January of 2012, "88/89 style door pull strap plastic end caps and retainers. I do have a limited supply of these but this is one part I would agree should be reproduced as there will be a demand". I'm sure he will be along soon to let us know if he still has them on hand.

[Jim]

Sort of odd timing.

About three days ago I got an email from someone looking for two of each piece. I said I had them but was running low on them. He emailed back asking it they could be reproduced on a 3D printer. I emailed back saying I thought they could but there might be a problem with the grain effect on the cover.

I also mentioned I am familiar with these 3D printers as my son ( who lives in GB but is moving even closer to Dave, moving to DePere ) made his own 3D printer and made me another part for the Reattas already. That part has been sitting on my work bench for about 6 months as I have been forgetting to test it in a real car.

His machine should be able to exactly duplicate the insert and also the cover but as I mentioned maybe the grain would be a problem.

Exactly duplicating the insert is not important as it is not seen and the under side of the cover is also not a problem but the part you see, should look like the factory intended.

I will contact him to see what he thinks.

[DAVES89]

There you have it. Jim it is yours if you want it. Sounds like your son would be a good source. My guy said the cover, while looking the same, would most likely not have the texture of original.

[Ronnie]

Dave, I'll bet the 3D printer could make the rear sway bar bushings that are NLA. Someone a while back said there were going to get them made but nothing has been said about it for a while. I assume that project was abandoned.

[DAVES89]

You know Ronnie we could use that for a number of parts;

Rear sway bushings

Cradle bushings

Horn Buttons

Door Handle end pieces

?

What we need is some good original stock to work with. And then of course someone with a son who has one...

lol!

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Dave, I'll bet the 3D printer could make the rear sway bar bushings that are NLA. Someone a while back said there were going to get them made but nothing has been said about it for a while. I assume that project was abandoned.

I have them and am almost ready to start sending them out. Just need to look and see what the wear looms like. I figure if there are no issues after two weeks on the lovely Hawaii roads then they should be good to go.

Edited April 25, 2013 by D-a-n-i-e-l
picture (see edit history)

[Jim]

I believe the 3D printers can only make plastic parts.

They take reels of plastic line, of different kinds of plastic, and send them through a heater that melts the line just as it is applying it to the part it is making. Building the part from a program.

[Machiner 55]

To all,

3D printing is the future according to the latest TIME magazine. There are machines now that do metal parts as well. They use a metal powder, of sorts, with a binder and it's sprayed on in layers then placed in a furnace to "cure" and out come a part that is as dimensionally correct as one produced on a CNC machime. If I can find the time, I'll get a Time Online copy and post a portion.

John F.

[Guest crazytrain2]

I'm familiar with this (or a very similar) process, it is referred to as Stereolithography. It works kind of like a copy machine on steroids, it uses a 3D print of the desired part , which it breaks down into 100's - 1,000's of layers (slices). Then it cuts thin sheets of ABS plastic each of which represents the next sequential "slice", applies an adhesive and then stacks each cut until the part is complete.

I'm unfamiliar with the parts you're talking about but you might want to look at vacuum forming or pressure forming (they're different from one another) as options for production methods

[Machiner 55]

Daniel,

That's pretty cool danny boy. Good Job.

John F.

P.S.

PM sent.

[Guest HessLakeGuy]

Interesting how things never change.

When I bought my blue 1989 Reatta in 1994 the owner gave me the portfolio, the keys, remotes, title and off we went.

The only thing Carolyn found in the glove box was a small plastic GM envelope with two NOS black parts in it. I was not sure what they were.

The owners were having problems with them back then when the cars were somewhat new. Our owner must have bought two spares.

They have been a pain on both of my 1989s ever since.

Tom

[handmedownreatta]

I bought the mounts for the handle trims last year from a gm dealer.they may still be available new.they could not get the trims.

[wws944]

3D printers are very cool, and not that expensive. Here is an article on how Jay Lenos Garage uses them:

Jay Leno's Garage - Jay Leno?s 3D Printer Replaces Rusty Old Parts | Articles

As time goes on, it seems like it would be useful to folks to share scans of printable parts. Then we could simply 'print' the ones we need.

[padgett]

How about the 88 glove box latches that are always broken ? I'd take a half dozen just for my toys.

[Guest HessLakeGuy]

I have boxes and boxes of the glove box latches. Some colors are harder to find.

Personally, I have broken just one in twenty years.

Tom

[padgett]

No, the 88 latches are all black & I doubt that you have dozens.

[Machiner 55]

Pagett,

I believe that part of the assembly is referred to as the "keeper". The part with the finger pull and lock cylinder is the latch.

John F.

[padgett]

Except an 88 doesn't have a finger pull or lock cyl on the glovebox.

[Machiner 55]

But the '88 still has a Keeper for the electro-mechanical latch mechanism. Yes?

John F.

[padgett]

That is what this part is, I have seen it called a striker plate on a door. This is the part of the latch that goes on the '88 glove box door and is used only in '88. It is often broken by people prying on the door to get it open who do not know about the release in the back.

[Ronnie]

That is what this part is, I have seen it called a striker plate on a door. This is the part of the latch that goes on the '88 glove box door and is used only in '88. It is often broken by people prying on the door to get it open who do not know about the release in the back.

Are there instructions anywhere for opening it from the back? I would like to post them on my website.

[Barney Eaton]

These are great modeling machines and they have come out with variations on the original idea over the years. I have been retired 15 years and before retiring, we had a machine that made plastic model parts. It had a container of plastic material (liquid) and used a laser to harden the liquid. By focusing the laser it hardened the material and as the laser moved, you could build a plastic model part.

One of the problems with all of the units is the availabity of types of plastic they can handle. Some can only make prototype/models that you can use for fit and function but are not strong enough to use in production. The original intent was to make these parts faster than a model maker could and with a tweek of the software, you could make modifications and have a upgraded model in hours instead of days.

[Guest ElginRTR]

Just a sideline comment. My dentist makes crowns on a 3D mill in his office as you wait. They are not like the old porcelain crowns but they are made of a hard plastic. Rather expensive though.

RT

[Guest steveskyhawk]

If each one of us would taske the time and expense to reproduce one part we would have a complete catalog of reproduction Reatta parts.

[KDirk]

Dave/Jim--

Would be great if the 88/89 door pull handle pieces could be repro'd. Padgett rightly pointed out the 88 glove box door reatiner clip is another part that needs this treatment. Since it is ABS plastic to begin with, a 3D printed ABS part should be at least as good, and could probably be improved upon. I imagine the 90/91 horn buttons could be done on an industrial grade machine ("home" units may not be up to the job) but the pattern in the surface would be tough to replicate.

Another piece that might be of some interest (eventually?) would be the plastic pieces that go around the upper end of the seatbelts in the rear pillar. These seem to be getting worse with age due to the type of plastic (probably ABS as well) and have already replaced one set on my 88 due to breakage. These aren't terribly complex pieces so maybe they could be considered. Biggest problem is color match, and would probably need to be painted to match.

I'll have to think about other parts that could and should be done by this method. Not much else comes to mind immediately in terms of small interior plastics that we are facing a dire shortage of. In 5 years that may be a different situation.

KDirk

[Howard]

Are there instructions anywhere for opening it from the back? I would like to post them on my website.

A few years ago I posted how I was able to open my glovebox with a broken latch. If you find the instructions useful, please feel free to include them on your website: You will need a flashlight to see under the latch handle and a very small screwdriver. The kind you fix eye glasses. It helps if you recline the passenger seat and move it forward so you can rest your back on the seat while getting close to the glovebox lock. Pull the handle out, don't worry about breaking it because it already is, till you see a little silver cylinder. With the screwdriver, try to rotate the cylinder toward the dash. You might "play" with that several minutes before you "hit" it just right. If you were as lucky as I was, the door will just pop open. The handle is toast and will have to be replaced.

[Ronnie]

Hi Howard, Good to see you back. I think I have the instructions you refer to on my website. They are for later models with key lock latches. The '88 models don't have manual latches with handles. They have a push button on the console that releases the door. I'm looking for instructions to open the '88 model from the rear like Padgett was referring to. The instructions might be in the owners manual. I've not took the time to look. Maybe a case of RTFM?

How To Open A Stuck Glove Box Door - Reatta Owners Journal

[padgett]

Instructions are not much help ("Insert a small scredriver in the access hole under the IP). But since I have one loose for my 90 'vert (I often park at a restaurant with the top down) here is a picture.

If you were to drop the black knee panel and look up behind the glovebox, you will see this. Slide a finger in the slot and move the nylon (pale yellow) ring about 1/4" toward the screw and it will open.

Ronnie: if you want to use this, GA.

[pontiac58]

What about the plastic parts on the mirror and window switch(88 & 89)?

Bob

[KDirk]

pontiac58-

Are you talking about the decals with the backlit legends, or the actual switch actuators (silver colored parts)? If talking about the decals, these are something that could be done by a sign shop with a laser engraving setup, though matching the original charcoal color aluminum decal will probably be tough. I have already talked to a guy locally that does this type of work. Just haven't jumped on it yet as I have too many projects going already. Since there does not seem to be a major demand for reproduction decals yet, I have not made it a priority to order a test batch.

I would need to create "camera ready" artwork (or a high-res image file) with the wording and guidelines for the areas to be cut out for the switch actuators, then send that to his shop for fabrication work. I would strive to replicate the typeface used on the originals exactly (as possible anyway) and there would be some trial and error getting the dimensions accurate especially with regard to the cutouts for the switches. While not a huge undertaking, I just haven't been inclined to spend the time yet. If enough Reatta owners start clamoring for new decals, I will make the time to get this done.

FWIW, this same approach could be used for the 16 way seat pod switch bezel, though Steve has already had a couple of these done up I believe from a previous post he made here a while back. I had planned to do these for my own use in silver on black metal. Steve's appeared to be plastic, gravoply material most likely. While not 100% original in appearance, plastic may be better as the metal tends to get dinged up by the seat belt latch (just look at the factory original bezel, most are beat to death).

I'd probably use white or pale grey over black gravoply, and have the background (black areas on original bezel) engraved out so that the text remained raised above the black background area. This keeps dirt and dust from gathering in the text as it would if engraved into the surface of the plastic when using black over white gravoply stock. Just look at the original 88/89 window and mirror switches with the aluminum overlay too see what I'm talking about - they get kind of nasty as stuff accumulates in the wording engraved in the aluminum. There was a later replacement version of these switches that had a lithographed plastic overlay that was completely smooth, but these are no longer available from GM.

KDirk