PreWar Mercedes Benz

[Davlet]

4 hours ago, MB Streamliner said:

https://www.powerful-cars.com/php/mercedes/1936-w29-540k-autobahn-kurier.php

 

https://www.powerful-cars.com/car?cid=7547

 

Restoration 

I think and I know that the same car 

[HermanOTO]

the pictured car is a '39 MB 320 Streamliner with 4 doors.

[Lindberg]

You have w18 290 also as a Streamliner...

What is the difference with Autobahnkurier?

[HermanOTO]

The "Autobahnkurier" is based on 500K or 540K chassis and has only 2 doors.

[prewarnut]

On 3/25/2023 at 7:02 AM, MB Streamliner said:

FOR - SALE 

I don't mind the design or angle - but, this photo makes the union of hood to cowl at the trafficator look a little fussy. More importantly the body line bend under the C-pillar looks a little stressed. Perhaps just the reflection of the black paint.

[SC38dls]

I certainly wouldn’t kick it out of the garage if it was mine! 
That would be worse than kicking my wife out of bed! 
dave s 

 

Ps if I did I’m afraid she would take her revenge while I slept! 

[SC38dls]

1 hour ago, MB Streamliner said:

I don't quite understand your humor. what are you talking about?😂

I like the car!  Doesn’t matter if the picture looks bad because or angle or distortion. It’s a beautiful car. I guess my humor is distorted! 
dave s

Edited March 27, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

170?

 

 

[Lindberg]

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2440192866004753&type=3

 

 

[alsancle]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:22 PM, Lindberg said:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2440192866004753&type=3

 

 

 

That is pretty cool.  When I have more time I'll pull some of those pictures over here.

[alsancle]

This is a great video if you want to hear what a Mercedes Supercharger sounds like when it is engaged.  This guy is running the blower a lot.   Right near the beginning he blows by a slower car with the supercharger engaged.

 

 

[George K]

On 3/29/2023 at 5:18 PM, alsancle said:

This is a great video if you want to hear what a Mercedes Supercharger sounds like when it is engaged.  This guy is running the blower a lot.   Right near the beginning he blows by a slower car with the supercharger engaged.

 

 

What and where?

[alsancle]

12 minutes ago, George K said:

What and where?

It was green in the 50s, then gold then Tom Barrett got it and painted it Russo Barrett.  Not sure who hung the phoney Eva Braun ownership on it but it is back to its original Cab A configuration and I believe is silver now.

[George K]

Thanks. Postwar American collectors would say anything unchallenged. Who bodied that car? From this angle it’s ugly.

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, George K said:

Thanks. Postwar American collectors would say anything unchallenged. Who bodied that car? From this angle it’s ugly.

It is a Sindelfingen bodied Cab A that was screwed with in the 50s. I’ll find some pictures later today.

[George K]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

It is a Sindelfingen bodied Cab A that was screwed with in the 50s. I’ll find some pictures later today.

No rush. Sad someone thought that was a good idea.

[alsancle]

59 minutes ago, George K said:

No rush. Sad someone thought that was a good idea.

George, before and after I just snagged from facebook.   Like I said it was originally bodied as a Cab A and then restyled with skirted fenders and a modified rear end in the early 1950s.

 

 

 

[540K]

On 25 May 2023, the world lost one of the great car guys when pre-war Mercedes-Benz specialist Jim Friswold passed away. Jim was internationally known as THE Mercedes pre-war parts guy in the United States. When contacting shops like the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center and Paul Russell & Co. looking for parts for my car, I was usually told, "Call Jim Friswold. If he doesn't have it, I don't know who would."

 

Jim specialized in restoring the magnificent Mercedes-Benz 500 K, 540 K and 770 K supercharged automobiles of the 1930's. He restored twenty-five or more of those cars to the highest standard. The cars he restored were graced with many awards, including first in class at Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance several times, CCCA 100 pt cars, and Best of Show in numerous shows. Do an internet search on his name and Mercedes, and you will find many references to Jim as a restoration specialist on some of the finest cars at auction over the past several decades.

 

As it turns out, fine-tuning my car was the last project Jim finished, just a month ago. In 2012, I started with nothing but a damaged 500 K chassis, wreckage left from WWII. Over the course of the next seven years, Jim oversaw the restoration of the car including factory-correct coachwork by Cass Nawrocki, interior by Ken Dickman and work by other specialists. But the bulk of the sourcing and restoration of parts, the assembly and testing was performed by Jim with able assistance from his friend and engineer Nick Peters and Jim's nephew Kevin. The restoration was essentially finished in late 2018, and the car won Best of Show in four out of eleven shows in 2019, plus a People's Choice Award and other awards. Earlier this year, Jim also got the supercharger working properly for perhaps the first time in 80 years. We had delayed finishing work on the blower because the car was drivable without it, and we were both anxious to get the car out of his shop! Four years later, as I contemplate the sale of the car, it was important to finally get the blower working, and Jim graciously took the beast back into his shop and repaired it.

 

Over the past eleven years, I spent quite a bit of time at Jim's home and shop. He had been a chef at a country club before turning his attention to car restoration, and I enjoyed his cooking on several occasions. He was an early riser and straight into the shop, later breaking for breakfast and lunch. Jim wisely identified my restoration skills as disassembly and polishing screw heads! He was very diligent over the seven years he restored my car, but he said it was the most difficult restoration he ever did. After several frustrating years of work, Jim said he thought about burying the car in his front yard. But he persevered and turned wreckage into one of the most beautiful Special Roadsters in the world.

 

Many of the finest 500 K and 540 K cars reflect Jim's passion and dedication to his craft. Photos of his cars pepper Jan Melin's seminal book and many of the major auction catalogs. Jim Friswold will be remembered in the classic car world as a critical supplier of parts, a premier restorer of award-winning automobiles and a fine person.

 

Craig Hopkins. 26 May 2023

 

Below: the original 500 K chassis, and after Jim Friswold & team's restoration. Jim Friswold (right) and his good friend and Pebble Beach judge Siegfried Linke. All photos (c) Craig Hopkins.

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by 540K (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Sad news. Jim will be missed. Such a nice man and always willing to help.  

[jeff_a]

         ........1928 Mercedes-Benz 680S Torpedo roadster. Posted by martc on autoshite today........

 

This would check all the boxes for a lot of people, if it still existed. All it needed was a G.I. stationed in Bavaria who had the moxie to bring it to the States after the war.

Edited June 7, 2023 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[HermanOTO]

Mercedes-Benz S  "Cannes", 1928. Bodied by Saoutchik

[540K]

There is still a similar  Saoutchik Mercedes.  I've seen it a couple of times. 

[adrian_pt]

Four fascinting images of a Soviet 540k. This one - chassis 408370 - was from the Romanian royal household, sold in Kiev in 1960 and in the 80s under the ownership of a Muscovite sculptor. Soviet engine, apparently. Now restored. 

[540K]

Quote

13 hours ago, adrian_pt said:

Four fascinting images of a Soviet 540k. This one - chassis 408370 - was from the Romanian royal household, sold in Kiev in 1960 and in the 80s under the ownership of a Muscovite sculptor. Soviet engine, apparently. Now restored. 

 

 

 

 

 

Any chance that second photo exists in higher resolution? Thanks

[58L-Y8]

On 7/31/2023 at 6:29 PM, 540K said:

Any chance that second photo exists in higher resolution? Thanks

This any better?

[540K]

On 8/1/2023 at 5:56 PM, 58L-Y8 said:

This any better?

 

Same photo. Someone adjusted brightness, but it's the same resolution. Thanks for posting, though.

[8E45E]

On 7/31/2023 at 3:09 AM, adrian_pt said:

Four fascinting images of a Soviet 540k. This one - chassis 408370 - was from the Romanian royal household, sold in Kiev in 1960 and in the 80s under the ownership of a Muscovite sculptor. Soviet engine, apparently. Now restored. 

 

 

 

As per the sign, it was in Vorovskogo, a Moscow suburb.

 

Craig

[Su8overdrive]

You have to admit there's something schizy, Walter Mitty,  when the most posted thread on the CCCA forums is about these overblown Mercedes, but the most widely owned car among members is the Pontiac-bodied 1941-47 Cadillac with a three-main-bearing V-8 having a water pump dating from 1930.   Always thought Ralph Stein well summed these ohv Mercedes well 56 years ago, writing:

 

 "No longer were they the lean, clean, fast cars Dr. Porsche had envisioned.  The production sport cars which took their place were the eight-cylinder, pushrod-engined 500 and 540Ks.   They were fat and heavy (about 5,500 pounds) and vulgarly curvilinear.  I thought at the time that if you had draped them with medals, they'd look like dear old Hermann Goering himself.  If he'd had wheels.... I ran away from one once in my old 4 1/2-liter Invicta, but perhaps the Mercedes-Benz was in poor fettle that day."

Edited August 19, 2023 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[540K]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:41 PM, Su8overdrive said:

You have to admit there's something schizy, Walter Mitty,  when the most posted thread on the CCCA forums is about these overblown Mercedes, but the most widely owned car among members is the Pontiac-bodied 1941-47 Cadillac with a three-main-bearing V-8 having a water pump dating from 1930.   Always thought Ralph Stein well summed these ohv Mercedes well 56 years ago, writing:

 

 "No longer were they the lean, clean, fast cars Dr. Porsche had envisioned.  The production sport cars which took their place were the eight-cylinder, pushrod-engined 500 and 540Ks.   They were fat and heavy (about 5,500 pounds) and vulgarly curvilinear.  I thought at the time that if you had draped them with medals, they'd look like dear old Hermann Goering himself.  If he'd had wheels.... I ran away from one once in my old 4 1/2-liter Invicta, but perhaps the Mercedes-Benz was in poor fettle that day."

The "overblown, fat, heavy and vulgar" Mercedes-Benz 540 K just won the 2023 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. And it won in competition over a number of Porsche-engineered older, boxier Mercedes. I appreciate the Cadillacs of the forties (in grade school I wrote a report about the early technological advances of Cadillac), but I do not recall them being on a short list of the best automotive designs of all time. You dare to use Stein's "vulgarly curvilinear" quip while referring to 1941-47 Cadillacs? Do you know what the Cadillacs of the forties looked like?

 

If I did not know that the late Mr. Stein started out as a cartoon and comedy writer, I might say he had a basic misunderstanding of who these cars were meant for and the objectives of Daimler Benz with the 500 K and 540 K. Knowing Stein's background, however, I see he was just trying to be funny, a point that may have been lost on Su8overdrive. In this "most-posted thread," I don't recall anyone arguing that the 500 K or 540 K was intended to be a track car that could beat an Invicta weighing half as much. (I'll take Mercedes' race history over Cadillac's.) Two very different cars intended to reach very different goals and customers. Stein's comparison, if meant for any reason other than being funny, would be without merit, and would be similar to comparing a Corvette to a Rolls Royce Ghost today. What is the point of saying the Corvette is faster or more widely owned than a Rolls? Does that make the Ghost "overblown?" Certainly not. Does the volume of books written about Corvettes make them "overblown?" Certainly not. Overblown means assigned more importance than warranted, not that something fails to lead in every measurable category.

 

This thread is not in competition with any other thread for the most posts. Is not my intention to criticize Cadillacs, and I would not post on the Cadillac thread that they are "overblown" and unworthy of appreciation. You seem to argue that more widely owned should necessarily mean more historically significant and more interesting to talk about, but apparently that has been disproven with this forum's members. 

 

I shouldn't respond to pot-stirrers, but as comedian Ron White says, "I had the right to remain silent, but not the ability."

Edited August 26, 2023 by 540K (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Craig. You took his bait.  I think, ignoring him is probably a better approach.

[540K]

The better approach, yes, but not the most satisfying.

 

Was happy to see a Special Roadster get BoS, but sad to see the Cab A take a million dollar hit over it's previous sale in 2013. The Mayfair roadster failed to sell AGAIN. What is that, 4 or 5 times it has been passed? The well-informed know it burned to the ground years ago, even though Mecum conveniently overlooked that part of its history, referring to it simply as a "complete refurbishment." Reminds me of Monty Python's Black Knight, "'Tis but a scratch." 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, 540K said:

The better approach, yes, but not the most satisfying.

 

Was happy to see a Special Roadster get BoS, but sad to see the Cab A take a million dollar hit over it's previous sale in 2013. The Mayfair roadster failed to sell AGAIN. What is that, 4 or 5 times it has been passed? The well-informed know it burned to the ground years ago, even though Mecum conveniently overlooked that part of its history, referring to it simply as a "complete refurbishment." Reminds me of Monty Python's Black Knight, "'Tis but a scratch." 

The Mayfair could be a BOS competitor in its original colors.  I think it suffers from being constantly for sale.

[Tph479]

You will be missed Jimmy.

The stories, books, and pictures you gave me and the funny, crafty written letters that you would mail me are legendary. It was always funny when you walked into the garage announcing “here comes dumb dumb” or “here comes the Chumbolone”. For you non Chicago people google that last word for a good laugh.

[alsancle]

13 hours ago, Tph479 said:

You will be missed Jimmy.

The stories, books, and pictures you gave me and the funny, crafty written letters that you would mail me are legendary. It was always funny when you walked into the garage announcing “here comes dumb dumb” or “here comes the Chumbolone”. For you non Chicago people google that last word for a good laugh.

 

Tim,  did Jim recently pass away?

[Tph479]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:34 AM, alsancle said:

Tim,  did Jim recently pass away?

Yes. Early September. I talked to him about 10 days before he passed on. He was sharp as a tack, but he said he was not feeling well. His family respected his wishes of not having any services. Jim was an interesting individual and his stories were fantastic. He will be missed.

[Tph479]

The land behind the homes is known as Ford City where they built the B29 engines during the war. After the war the location is where the Tuckers were built.  Now it is a mall. Pretty cool picture.

[Tph479]

Typical Southside Chicago. Shirtless Italian in a convertible Benz  probably on the way to get a slice of deep dish pizza or a babtized beef sandwich. I’m teaching you non Chicago people some new food language!

[540K]

56 minutes ago, Tph479 said:

Typical Southside Chicago. Shirtless Italian in a convertible Benz  probably on the way to get a slice of deep dish pizza or a babtized beef sandwich. I’m teaching you non Chicago people some new food language!

Thanks for the Chicago vernacular lessons! Please tell us who Jimmy was, for those who do not know.

[John Bloom]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:37 AM, Tph479 said:

You will be missed Jimmy.

The stories, books, and pictures you gave me and the funny, crafty written letters that you would mail me are legendary. It was always funny when you walked into the garage announcing “here comes dumb dumb” or “here comes the Chumbolone”. For you non Chicago people google that last word for a good laugh.

Tim, thanks for introducing Jimmy to me. I I’m sure it would blow our minds to see a list of all the cars to pass through his hands.  I think a well written tribute article is certainly warranted that would be a fantastic read. I’d love to see the AACA or CCCA move forward and tell his story and impact on the hobby.

[Tph479]

23 hours ago, 540K said:

Thanks for the Chicago vernacular lessons! Please tell us who Jimmy was, for those who do not know.

Jim Debickero of Chicago, Illinois.

 

Jim got started in the hobby in the early 1950’s and was pretty active in the ACD and CCCA clubs in the early years. He had an incredible number of highly, highly desirable cars go through this hands. Jim never had a dealership or even a dealer license, but he was always buying and selling cars because he wanted to own and experience them all and then go onto the next exotic car.
 

Besides owning some real big boy toy Duesenbergs, Cadillacs and Packards, he imported a lot of cars from Europe and South America from the 1950-1970’s. For Jim’s honeymoon he went on an extended European vacation and met a dealer named Bart Loyens in Luxembourg. Jim’s friendship with Bart led to Jim buying a bunch of cars from Europe and bringing them stateside. (Bugatti’s, Tabot Lago’s, Hispano’s, Ferrari’s, Mercedes, Rolls, Bentley’s, etc) 

 

How it worked was they would exchange letters and pictures via mail and would negotiate by crossing off each others price with a counter offer and mailing it back and forth. If they came to terms the car would come over by boat. He imported a large number of cars to America this way. Jim explained to me that there was not a lot of appetite for foreign classic cars in America at that time because of the animosity towards some European countries by American collectors because of both of the World Wars.  At that time (1950’s-1960’s), it was not cool to be seen driving a German made car or something that a Frenchmen would have driven at some point.

 

If Jim was able to keep all of the cars that he owned and put them in a museum, the museum would rival the best.  I would ask him why he sold a particular car, and he would show me pictures of what replaced it and I would be like Oh, I completely understand. He said there was always something better around the corner, until the prices zoomed into the stratosphere and he could no longer afford to play in that arena. Jim would smile telling me stories and he would say that at least he got to own and drive the best cars as they were intended and that he had a lot of fun with them.  He told me that it’s too bad that the current owners, or sheiks as he would joke about, will probably never get to wind up a supercharged j, 500k, or Ferrari to its max limits and have the fun he had with the cars when they were just cheap used cars. His car quests and chasing down cars were Indiana Jones type stories.