PreWar Mercedes Benz

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@bugnbox, are you planning to send a copy to the idiot insisting you bought a kit/homebuilt? 😉😁

[bugnbox]

1 hour ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

@bugnbox, are you planning to send a copy to the idiot insisting you bought a kit/homebuilt? 😉😁

I’d rather he remain ignorant…it suits him. 😉

[Steve_Mack_CT]

11 minutes ago, bugnbox said:

I’d rather he remain ignorant…it suits him. 😉

Perfect.  Now back to your quest.  As an aside, we have seen some dusty cars clean up really well here.  Any thought on next steps, would also be cool to see what that may be.

[bugnbox]

41 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Perfect.  Now back to your quest.  As an aside, we have seen some dusty cars clean up really well here.  Any thought on next steps, would also be cool to see what that may be.

Just research for the moment and some gentle reassembly of loose parts and a little work to make it roll and steer easily . The plan is to display it “as-found” at an upcoming concours event and then the decision to restore or preserve must be made.

 

im in no hurry, I’ve waited my whole life to find a car as special as this. No need to rush anything!

[Simsim]

On 8/7/2017 at 3:04 PM, MB Streamliner said:

 

 

This information is not a secret. I found already many MB 540K cars, at auctions that demonstrate this information. How can I find this Mercedes 540K Cabriolet C - ( Chassis/Engine no. 169387 ) now?

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21768/lot/375/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/16337/lot/162/

http://www.rmsothebys.com/am15/amelia-island/lots/1935-mercedes-benz-500-540-k-cabriolet-a-by-sindelfingen/1072315

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23590/lot/121/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23425/lot/57/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23590/lot/132/

http://www.rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/lots/1937-mercedes-benz-540-k-special-roadster-by-sindelfingen/1078709

http://www.rmsothebys.com/mo17/monterey/lots/1936-mercedes-benz-500-k-offener-tourenwagen-by-sindelfingen/1704461

http://www.scottgrundfor.com/sold-1938-mercedes-benz-540k-cabriolet-b/

 

 

sir , did you find any information about the Ex-King Farouk of Egypt 1936 Mercedes-Benz 540K Cabriolet C ( Chassis/Engine no. 169387 ) ?

 

 

 

 

[Simsim]

On 8/7/2017 at 3:04 PM, MB Streamliner said:

 

 

This information is not a secret. I found already many MB 540K cars, at auctions that demonstrate this information. How can I find this Mercedes 540K Cabriolet C - ( Chassis/Engine no. 169387 ) now?

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21768/lot/375/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/16337/lot/162/

http://www.rmsothebys.com/am15/amelia-island/lots/1935-mercedes-benz-500-540-k-cabriolet-a-by-sindelfingen/1072315

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23590/lot/121/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23425/lot/57/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23590/lot/132/

http://www.rmsothebys.com/az16/arizona/lots/1937-mercedes-benz-540-k-special-roadster-by-sindelfingen/1078709

http://www.rmsothebys.com/mo17/monterey/lots/1936-mercedes-benz-500-k-offener-tourenwagen-by-sindelfingen/1704461

http://www.scottgrundfor.com/sold-1938-mercedes-benz-540k-cabriolet-b/

 

 

 

 

 

 

did you find any information about the ( Chassis/Engine no. 169387 ) ?

[540K]

On 10/13/2021 at 12:38 PM, Simsim said:

did you find any information about the ( Chassis/Engine no. 169387 ) ?

It is in the Franschoek Motor Museum, South Africa, I believe. On their website they had a Mercedes display "in March" (year unknown) and I believe 169387 is probably the second car on the left in their photo. It does not appear to be on display at the current time. Last sale that I know of was 2006 Coys in France.

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by 540K (see edit history)

[Simsim]

On 10/17/2021 at 5:19 PM, 540K said:

It is in the Franschoek Motor Museum, South Africa, I believe. On their website they had a Mercedes display "in March" (year unknown) and I believe 169387 is probably the second car on the left in their photo. It does not appear to be on display at the current time. Last sale that I know of was 2006 Coys in France.

 

my research results that some one in the uk has acquired the car  and its no longer there at the museum .

[540K]

6 hours ago, Simsim said:

my research results that some one in the uk has acquired the car  and its no longer there at the museum .

Perhaps you should have shared that information to begin with. 

[bugnbox]

After the first bath… 

 

Further info discovered, it’s got the 3.4 engine, which is cool. A few of the missing parts have been found but I am still searching for a front bumper and a hood ornament/radiator cap.

 

Some Rometsch records have surfaced that possibly refer to the car. While it’s not 100% in my mind, it may have been built for the publishing director of the Berlin newspaper Der Kurier . 
 

Looks to have left the Mercedes factory in black, but painted red by Rometsch at the time of the coachwork. Wheels were repainted at some point in yellow and whitewalls fitted (my assumption was that this was done in the US in the 50’s or 60’s).

 

Still cleaning, fixing and researching … and enjoying every moment of it!

Edited October 19, 2021 by bugnbox (see edit history)

[MBK]

I have a set of 6 wheels with tires for Mercedes 500k and 540k, ready to install. Wheels are already chromed (we used highest quality chrome available), and assembled as you can see in the pictures. Showroom condition, brand new tires, located in Poland, will ship worldwide. Price available upon request, please let me know if anyone is interested.

 

[8E45E]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:22 PM, bugnbox said:

Just research for the moment and some gentle reassembly of loose parts and a little work to make it roll and steer easily . The plan is to display it “as-found” at an upcoming concours event and then the decision to restore or preserve must be made.

 

im in no hurry, I’ve waited my whole life to find a car as special as this. No need to rush anything!

As long as you don't find out after that its stolen property: 

 

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1950221/german-courts-rule-status-rare-mercedes-benz-500k-roadster/

 

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1950221/german-courts-rule-status-rare-mercedes-benz-500k-roadster/

 

Do your homework before taking it to Germany.

 

Craig

Edited October 25, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[bugnbox]

I think it might be wise for me to keep it here in the US...just in case!  That is a little scary to think about though. Im hopeful that I can dredge up some history on the car but I am finding it a little difficult.  It seems that the cars produced at the Mannheim plant like mine have minimal records available...most were destroyed during the war.

 

If there is anyone out there that might be able to help with research, please let me know,

[Simsim]

On 10/19/2021 at 2:25 AM, 540K said:

Perhaps you should have shared that information to begin with. 

i just knew this after i knew its at the museum 

 

[alsancle]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:58 AM, MBK said:

I have a set of 6 wheels with tires for Mercedes 500k and 540k, ready to install. Wheels are already chromed (we used highest quality chrome available), and assembled as you can see in the pictures. Showroom condition, brand new tires, located in Poland, will ship worldwide. Price available upon request, please let me know if anyone is interested.

 

Nicely done.   Are you making them painted with chrome wheel weight covers too?

[MBK]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:48 AM, alsancle said:

 

Nicely done.   Are you making them painted with chrome wheel weight covers too?

Thank you  Next set we will make painted, this will help save money because good quality chrome plating is crazy expensive, especially in Europe. If someone is looking for chromed wheels this is the only chance...

[MBK]

I also have 540k rear axle and new brake drums available for 540k and 500k, front and rear.

[540K]

Former King of Iraq's 770 K up for auction on Bring a Trailer. 

[Davlet]

On 2/1/2022 at 4:48 PM, 540K said:

Former King of Iraq's 770 K up for auction on Bring a Trailer. 

No way..

[bugnbox]

Some updates on my 1940 Mercedes.

The history picture is coming a bit more clear , but there are still puzzle pieces out there to find.

Built March 15th 1940 and delivered to Berlin as a long wheelbase Pullman Limousine
Coachwork designed by Johannes Beeskow most likely while he was with Erdmann and Rossi, but completed by Rometsch in Berlin in 1948
Came to the US at some point in the 1950's and settled in Albuquerque NM. Moved to Michigan in the late 60's and barn stored until 2021.
Now in California.

 

Preservation and revival are coming along nicely. Hope to fire the engine within the next week and then move on to brakes, etc. Location and fabrication of a few missing parts is also coming along nicely.

Looking forward to getting it out to an event or two later in the year (hopefully)

Still searching for more period photos and history (hopefully names of past owners, etc).

Edited February 24, 2022 by bugnbox (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Marjorie Eccles and her Mercedes in 1937

Edited April 2, 2022 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[tilomagnet]

Has this car survivied?

[58L-Y8]

Peter R, who lives in Switzerland, posted this wonderful image in the Period Photos to Relieve Stress section.

[x4158x]

I'm friends with the buyer of the 1935 290 Cab A from Bonhams.  The car is currently being restored.  It was originally red on red on red, allegedly custom ordered by a French Vintner.  Right now I'm trying to assist in finding information about it's original owner and to fill in the gaps of it's timeline. 

 

The car is utterly amazing, it has had a few poorly executed repairs over the decades, but is largely original and complete.  Believe it or not, we actually drove it around for a photo/video shoot before beginning the restoration!  brakes didn't work and it over-heated, but it ran rather well.  We are also trying to find information regarding the rather interesting leather used in the interior, It has an unusual texture almost like a cross between snakeskin and bull hide...  there is a faint irregular pattern that is almost a diamond pattern.

 

If anyone can recommend some sources for information in finding it's history, or on pre-war MB's in general we would be grateful.  We have tried the MB Classic Center in CA and can't even get a return phone call.

 

Thanks,

 

MH

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, x4158x said:

I'm friends with the buyer of the 1935 290 Cab A from Bonhams.  The car is currently being restored.  It was originally red on red on red, allegedly custom ordered by a French Vintner.  Right now I'm trying to assist in finding information about it's original owner and to fill in the gaps of it's timeline. 

 

The car is utterly amazing, it has had a few poorly executed repairs over the decades, but is largely original and complete.  Believe it or not, we actually drove it around for a photo/video shoot before beginning the restoration!  brakes didn't work and it over-heated, but it ran rather well.  We are also trying to find information regarding the rather interesting leather used in the interior, It has an unusual texture almost like a cross between snakeskin and bull hide...  there is a faint irregular pattern that is almost a diamond pattern.

 

If anyone can recommend some sources for information in finding it's history, or on pre-war MB's in general we would be grateful.  We have tried the MB Classic Center in CA and can't even get a return phone call.

 

Thanks,

 

MH

 

The issue with finding history on the 290/320 cars is that the plant in Mannheim was blown up during WWII along with a lot of the paperwork. At least that is the conventional wisdom.    For the 500k/540K DB still retains the commission books (I believe there are 3?)  each with different information on the car such as who ordered it,  colors,  coachwork.    

 

In the US,  I would reach out to Jonathan Sierrakowski and in Europe I would go to  Rolf Wagner.  You google either for contact info.   Both have vast knowledge of prewar MB.

[x4158x]

So the W18 was not built in Sindelfingen?  

 

MH

[58L-Y8]

Peter R, who lives in Switzerland, posted these wonderful images in the Period Photos to Relieve Stress section.

[alsancle]

On 6/1/2022 at 1:05 PM, x4158x said:

So the W18 was not built in Sindelfingen?  

 

MH

 

Now that you ask,  I'm not sure.  I have it in my head that middle class cars were built in Mannheim but I don't know why I think that.  I'm 99% sure the 320 was built there.

[x4158x]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Now that you ask,  I'm not sure.  I have it in my head that middle class cars were built in Mannheim but I don't know why I think that.  I'm 99% sure the 320 was built there.

From what I've read most of the W18's were built in Mannheim, but the more limited production versions were built in Singelfelden...   and we know this one (at least the coachwork) was built in Singelfelden...  There were only 19 Cab A's built and 1935 was the first year.

 

 

[CMC - Classic Motor Compan]

Greeting All
I am a new member to this forum after stumbling onto it while researching a 500K that is part of a private collection that I help curate.
The particular vehicle is for sale in Europe, however the chassis number and the accompanying "History/Provenance" is identical to a vehicle previously discussed here in 2011 I believe.
My reason for this post however is because I believe that these are 2 different vehicles that share the same chassis number!
Chassis Number 123741
I have a photo of the 500K in our collection, anyone whom can comment on why there might be a duplicate chassis number, or how this is possible?
 

[edinmass]

5 hours ago, CMC - Classic Motor Compan said:

Greeting All
I am a new member to this forum after stumbling onto it while researching a 500K that is part of a private collection that I help curate.
The particular vehicle is for sale in Europe, however the chassis number and the accompanying "History/Provenance" is identical to a vehicle previously discussed here in 2011 I believe.
My reason for this post however is because I believe that these are 2 different vehicles that share the same chassis number!
Chassis Number 123741
I have a photo of the 500K in our collection, anyone whom can comment on why there might be a duplicate chassis number, or how this is possible?
 

 

 

You are asking a question that can cause one of two cars to be worthless that have values in the millions. I don't expect you will get an answer from anyone with true knowledge of these cars. There are two people here who are experts........I am friends with both. I would recommend you hire a professional to evaluate BOTH cars. If you don't have a history on your car from day one WITH PHOTOS.............I would expect poor results. These cars are well known to be faked and altered......and having numbers restamped. To contact a professional who can give you everything you need to know, email the address below from their web page. 

 

https://jonathansierakowski.com

 

PS- he probably already is familiar with both cars..........

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Ed advice to reach out to Jonathan is a good idea.  Or in Europe you can talk to Rolf Wagner also.   123741 has a long history in the US as a Cabriolet "C".   The engine was separated from the car in the 1950s and replaced with one from a Buick.  Noted collector Bud Cohen of California get a correct replacement engine for it in the early 70s under his ownership.

 

The asking price of around 1.5 million dollars for the Special Roadster is around market price for new coachwork.    A genuine example might be 5 to 10 times that much.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history)

[adrian_pt]

Hi and good to meet you. Writing to share some recently discovered photos of what seems to be a 540k in Romania, circa 1960. The cars (just visible behind it is a Duesnberg J...!) were allegedly part of the props used by the Buftea film studios, and were said to have been subsequently scrapped. However given the significant importance of such vehicles, even at the time, my hunch is it might have made its way overseas, as did a number of significant vehicles in Iron Curtain Romania. Immediately post-war the usual destination was Moscow or at least one of the SSRs, though from the 1960s onwards the export traffic flowed westwards. I suspect the fate of this one is lost in the mists of time but what evocative photos.

[alsancle]

Excellent photos!

 

A late side mount 540 K Cabriolet A.  I believe I can see the side mount wells, even on my phone.

i’m not sure the car in the background is a Duesenberg. I agree the line of the trunk area looks like a Murphy convertible coupe, but I’m not sure about the fenders. But that could be because I’m looking at them on my phone. Will need to look when I get to a computer.

hopefully both cars survived. They made 40 something of those side mount Cab A bodies.

[alsancle]

Most of you guys are probably aware there will be quite a few 500K/540K Mercedes available at the auctions in Monterey this year.     RM has at least 10 alone,  Gooding has one,  I think Bonhams might have one too.    Too many cars to link here, but if there is one of particular interest to a forum member they can post it.    I've followed the Melton Cab "A" for years.   Not my favorite styling, it looks more like a "C" to me, but a one off, and former Pebble Beach BOS winner.    Was for sale at RM Amelia 5 or 6 years ago too as a no sale.

 

The fenders have gone through a few iterations,  I believe the current restored versions are closer to what James Melton did when he restored it in the 40s.

 

 

[edinmass]

Watch the 500/540 K market drop like a rock.......that's about 400 percent too many cars for sale in one year in the Western Hemisphere. And these are mostly not run of the mill common models, but the real big boy toys..........😏

[George K]

22 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Watch the 500/540 K market drop like a rock.......that's about 400 percent too many cars for sale in one year in the Western Hemisphere. And these are mostly not run of the mill common models, but the real big boy toys..........😏

Independent front, swing rear axle trucks with blowers and beautiful bodies built on them. What the Bud Cohen auction started has run its course. That’s a better than forty year run.

[540K]

Pity, but I have to agree. Way too many no-sales of these cars over the past several years. Reserves were way too high. If reserves are more reasonable this year, at least the roadsters should do reasonably well, but the cabs and other less popular body styles may suffer significantly with so many for sale within 3 days. Knock a mil off the 2015 values?

[alsancle]

I would tend to agree,  although it may bring out more buyers bargain shopping who get caught up in the moment.    Also,  a lot of RHD cars which don't sell as well because Germany and the US, the two biggest markets for these cars, prefer the LHD.

[edinmass]

And don’t forget the 125 grand each buyer is going to spend to get them running right after forty years parked in a museum………. That’s assuming you can beg your way into a shop that knows what they’re doing. And you can count those on one hand with some fingers missing.