PreWar Mercedes Benz

[John OLeary]

Beyond excited to share the preview video of my research on the legendary true events behind the discovery of the 1939 Mercedes-Benz 540K Aktion P (chassis #408377). It is the ultimate 'barn find' from WWII. Aktion P was discovered by a trio that included my father-in-law (Richard Reuter, of Reuter's Coach Works).

 

AKTION P

 

Cheers,

John O'Leary

olearyj42@gmail.com

(860) 805-6928

[George K]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:53 AM, alsancle said:

Herman,

 

Here is your picture right side up.    I believe that Axle Shuette has this car for sale 15 years ago?

Thought you might have some insight as to where and why.

[HermanOTO]

concours Masterpieces & Style, Schloss Dyck Germany 2017 did show such a roadster. I had the pleasure to be a passenger in that car from the parking into the show field. Unfortunate I do not have any pictures from cars in the showfield, so I can't say for sure it was this event.

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, George K said:

Thought you might have some insight as to where and why.

George,  I assume you mean the children's car?    I forget the maker and I can't seem to find it.   Not sure why they put it out there with the full size model,  but a show will do a lot of things to generate interest I guess.

[George K]

Yes the child’s car.  The photo seems to define what conspicuous consumption meant in a given period of time. Thanks.

[Ben Valkenburg]

On 9/1/2022 at 11:34 PM, alsancle said:

Here is a picture of your car when it was owned by Thomas Barrett of Arizona (and Barrett Jackson fame) in what I believe is the late 70s.  When he bought it the colors were the same as they are now in the picture you posted.   He painted every car he bought red.    Easily identifiable as the same car by the spot light and hood screens.

Once again I would like to express my gratitude to the members of this forum, especially Alsancle, for helping me with my search for the history of my Mercedes Benz 320 convertible A.

I would like to use your knowledge to further supplement the history.

 

It is a Mercedes Benz 320 A convertible with 3.4 engine. Chassis number 440222 and factory number 431201. The car was delivered in January 1939 in Austria and was later owned by Thomas Barret.

I would like to know when the car was shipped to America (probably somewhere around 1970) and when the car was restored and by whom.

I also miss the history from 1945 to 1970. Everything is welcome, including details about this type of car.

 

Thank you in advance!

Bennie Valkenburg, The Netherlands.

[Tph479]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:53 AM, alsancle said:

Herman,

 

Here is your picture right side up.    I believe that Axle Shuette has this car for sale 15 years ago?

 

[HermanOTO]

Very interesting, same body shape as #169.384!  As far as I know #169.384 didn't have a colour change, it remained black until now.

Do You have more information about the car in Your pictures like:

- what is it license number & state?

- date &  location of picture?

- name of driver/owner?

 

Regards,

Herman van Oldeneel

[alsancle]

5 hours ago, HermanOTO said:

Very interesting, same body shape as #169.384!  As far as I know #169.384 didn't have a colour change, it remained black until now.

Do You have more information about the car in Your pictures like:

- what is it license number & state?

- date &  location of picture?

- name of driver/owner?

 

Regards,

Herman van Oldeneel

 

It is 189424 when it was in Illinois.

[HermanOTO]

On 1/28/2013 at 6:15 PM, tilomagnet said:

This is a second (and final) catalogue version of the 540K Special Roadster, apparently pictured at the Vintage Car Store in Nyack, NY in the 60ies. Surprisingly theres a virtually identical car but in dark colors pictured in Melin II at the same location. Maybe this is the same car after a first restoration?! Quite a coincidence to see more than one of those rare birds in the same place in that timeframe....there are certainly no more than a handful of this version around today. Does someone know what became of this car?

Jan Melin Vol II page 244 showed  car #189424 in Nyack. Nyack is related to the Vintage Car Shop of Ed Jurist. Running along the forum another picture of #189.424 popped up, see above!

[alsancle]

5 hours ago, HermanOTO said:

Jan Melin Vol II page 244 showed  car #189424 in Nyack. Nyack is related to the Vintage Car Shop of Ed Jurist. Running along the forum another picture of #189.424 popped up, see above!

 

189424 was painted black sometime in the 1960s.   It was sold by Ed Jurist to Ted Billing around 1965.  It went back to Ed in a trade for J292.

 

 

[tilomagnet]

Where is 189424 today?

[Davlet]

On 10/18/2022 at 8:51 PM, John OLeary said:

Beyond excited to share the preview video of my research on the legendary true events behind the discovery of the 1939 Mercedes-Benz 540K Aktion P (chassis #408377). It is the ultimate 'barn find' from WWII. Aktion P was discovered by a trio that included my father-in-law (Richard Reuter, of Reuter's Coach Works).

 

AKTION P

 

Cheers,

John O'Leary

olearyj42@gmail.com

(860) 805-6928

I seen this car in person 

 

Was that time too much money

 

[540K]

I believe a record price yesterday for a rebodied Special Roadster. $2.1M for a Prahl car. Catalog suggested it would need work to make it roadworthy after long-term display, and I think I saw a photo of damage to the leather in the rumble seat.

[prewarnut]

...this one I believe.

 

[alsancle]

Chassis # 169394.  That is a shocking result.

 

 

As of 5 or 6 years ago its original Cab B body was still available if you wanted to put it all back together again and have a 750K car.

 

 

 

[540K]

Another rebodied car, with a bad paint color, sold for $1.87M in 2015. Inflation alone makes that $2.3M. It's only 20% of the original special roadsters. I think that's fair for the best rebodied cars. I'm not suggesting Prahl cars are the best, but most people probably do not see the differences. Your comment that it could have been restored with the Cab B body is pretty hilarious!

[tilomagnet]

I'd rather have an original Cab B than a fake Roadster. Its sad they are using an original frame for that, they could have built a 100% replica without destroying an original survivor.

[Lindberg]

Some parts are missing fs in Germany 85.000€, 500k

[Davlet]

33 minutes ago, hansvdc said:

Some parts are missing fs in Germany 85.000€, 500k

Is chassis there or just a body?

[Lindberg]

89.000€ from  1937

[Davlet]

1 hour ago, hansvdc said:

89.000€ from  1937

Send me all what you have with WhatsApp +14146302853

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Davlet (see edit history)

[540K]

20 hours ago, tilomagnet said:

I'd rather have an original Cab B than a fake Roadster. Its sad they are using an original frame for that, they could have built a 100% replica without destroying an original survivor.

I agree, if the body is still existing. Mine did not survive the war, and did not have a body at all for about 40 years. I was in the same position as the original buyer of the chassis with a choice of body styles. I would not have changed a survivor, though it was commonplace in period. 

[alsancle]

130885 on Bob Roberts Used Car lot in LA circa late 40s.   Do you recognize the car to the left as a Duesenberg Model J Riviera.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history)

[alsancle]

For a comparison on the different trunks, compare 130885 above with the Cab C that Hyman is selling (the same one from RM Monterey 113715) for 890K:

 

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/7376-1937-mercedes-benz-500-k-cabriolet-c/

 

 

 

 

[John Bloom]

I have started to read through this thread, and it is just simply fantastic. Very educational. My apologies if this photo and Book have been mentioned before, I’m working my way through this entire thing but since it is 58 pages, it may take me a while and perhaps this has been shown or commented on before.

 

I have a lot of weaknesses, and one of them is certainly automobile books and literature. After reading a couple pages of this thread I remembered picking this book up a while ago and found it buried under a pile of other forgotten treasures. Anyway if you’re into prewar Mercedes you might find this book enjoyable. Lots of great commentary and history and some tech and specifications as well as racing/competition commentary

[alsancle]

18 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

I have started to read through this thread, and it is just simply fantastic. Very educational. My apologies if this photo and Book have been mentioned before, I’m working my way through this entire thing but since it is 58 pages, it may take me a while and perhaps this has been shown or commented on before.

 

I have a lot of weaknesses, and one of them is certainly automobile books and literature. After reading a couple pages of this thread I remembered picking this book up a while ago and found it buried under a pile of other forgotten treasures. Anyway if you’re into prewar Mercedes you might find this book enjoyable. Lots of great commentary and history and some tech and specifications as well as racing/competition commentary

 

 

John,

 

buy this book:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394014618864

 

[John Bloom]

I’m on it. I noticed early in that thread that this book (Melin) is mentioned as a reference.

 

Here is a link to the one I mentioned.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185666347082?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1lvC1P0zYS5uRL8EX9b6jtw95&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=185666347082&targetid=1583904486842&device=m&mktype=&googleloc=9052060&poi=&campaignid=15275224983&mkgroupid=131097072938&rlsatarget=pla-1583904486842&abcId=9300697&merchantid=111836263&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh-l64VCxtWv4_ZxwA0qNmUvm&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-oqdBhDfARIsAO0TrGHxMDX69qqcN4ocvA8iTN63oSap5fAmRQxoIweN2RupjbFySh5rIZQaAtVaEALw_wcB

[540K]

There is another volume of the Melin work, but it tends to be more expensive. Got to have both. I might have an extra of each.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Another book with heavy prewar coverage, but like most of the (excellent) Kimes and contributor books the focus is more historical as relates to the company and model development, vs. a resource for a restorer.

 

This was a library copy that oddly came out of a Jr. Woman's college.  It was never checked out and likely never read prior to landing on my bookshelf...

[tilomagnet]

The Melin books are must haves, Vol.2 is even more interesting w/ the known survivors chapter and the in-period photos.

[540K]

I only have an extra of Volume 1 of Melin. I have a set that stays on my desk for reference, and an autographed set that are the pride and joy of my automotive library.

[alsancle]

The RHD Cab A from RM Monterey is now available via Mark Hyman.  Looks like he cleaned it up a bit.   I really liked this car and could probably learn to live with the steering wheel being in the wrong spot.   Originally the spare was in the trunk and it should probably go back that way.

 

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/7375-1938-mercedes-benz-540-k-cabriolet-a/

 

 

Chassis 189391 is a desirable third-series car, fitted from new with Sindelfingen’s elegant and desirable Cabriolet A coachwork, originally delivered without side-mounted spares. According to the Daimler-Benz Kommission sheet, the order for this car came via the British Mercedes-Benz distributor in London. The original owner, Mr. Manson, appears to have taken delivery in Paris, though the car was registered in the UK as FLC 217, and it mercifully remained in England for the duration of the war, undoubtedly ensuring its survival. In 1951, the great British actor, writer, filmmaker, and raconteur Sir Peter Ustinov acquired 189391. Ustinov was an enthusiastic and discerning petrolhead, having owned many significant sporting automobiles throughout his career, including a Mercedes S36/220, a Hispano Suiza, and numerous post-war Astons, Lagondas, and Maseratis. Sir Peter kept this 540 K for only a short period, selling it in 1953, likely via the dealer Simmons of Mayfair, which advertised the car around this time in Motor Sport magazine.

 

In July 1953, the 540 K came stateside via pioneering American collector Ralph Buckley of Absecon, New Jersey. Buckley was well known in the hobby as an expert on Mercer T-Head automobiles and was a friend of seminal motoring book author Ralph Stein. From Mr. Buckley, 189391 went to John R. Bond, beloved Road & Track magazine publisher and a prominent character in the American motoring press. John was a sharp-witted writer, and together with his business-savvy wife Elaine, the Bonds maintained a carefully selected collection of cars in their California home. In 1977, John Bond met Jim Wilson of Hermosa Beach, California, who, upon seeing the 540 K for the first time at Bond’s house, was instantly smitten. He soon arranged to buy it and later recalled it was a complete, highly original car showing no signs of a restoration aside from an earlier repaint.

 

In Mr. Wilson’s care, the 540 K was treated to a comprehensive nut and bolt mechanical and cosmetic restoration to show-quality standards. After five years, the Wilsons exhibited the freshly restored 540 K at the 1983 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, taking a well-deserved 3rd in class. After a few years, the Wilsons sold the 540 K to Manfredo Lippmann of Guatemala, an avid collector of supercharged pre-war Mercedes-Benz automobiles. It eventually came to join a US-based collection, where it was displayed alongside several other significant Mercedes and classic-era cars.

 

As offered today, 189391 is well-presented with a preserved restoration and pleasing overall character. Finished in a lovely shade of claret and accented with chrome wire wheels and a recently restored black canvas top, the restoration remains appealing and attractive, with a light patina. During its life, someone modified the original skirted front fenders to accommodate dual side-mounted spare wheels. The rounded tail gives the car a decidedly sporting appearance, befitting the powerful 5.4-liter supercharged eight under the long bonnet. Marque experts have noted that 189391 retains original details, such as the body number suffix “205” stamped into the bonnet hinge, and have stated that the chassis and engine number stampings are original and correspond with production records. It would undoubtedly make a most enjoyable and exciting 540 K to drive and enjoy following some servicing.

 

 

[John Bloom]

What a handsome car. I know next to nothing about this era of Super Charged  Mercedes, but I am a visual person and the lines of the car tell you “I am special”.....all great cars seem to do that.  
 

It is fun to think about the peers of this car in 1938......speed and luxury.   Rare air and packaged beautifully.

 

 

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, John Bloom said:

What a handsome car. I know next to nothing about this era of Super Charged  Mercedes, but I am a visual person and the lines of the car tell you “I am special”.....all great cars seem to do that.  
 

It is fun to think about the peers of this car in 1938......speed and luxury.   Rare air and packaged beautifully.

 

 

 

This car was around 12K US dollars when new John.  Around the cost of a cheaper Duesenberg and much more than a Packard or Caddy.   In the USA the only thing more expensive was a Rolls Royce or the occasional Hisso or Isotta.

[alsancle]

It is raining Cab A's.   BJ is offering this very nice example - although I do not appreciate the caddy wheel treatment.   Also, read the fine print.

 

https://barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1939-MERCEDES-BENZ-540K-CABRIOLET-A-BODY-CONVERSION-262761

 

Lot #1379 - This 1939 Mercedes-Benz 540K is powered by a 5.4-liter straight-8 engine with a 4-speed manual transmission. This vehicle started life with a Cabriolet B-body configuration and has been updated to a Cabriolet A-body configuration. It was purchased in 1991 by Fred M. Kemp Sr., who founded the Kemp Auto Museum through Coys of Kensington in London. The chassis, driveline and supercharger are original to the car. It is the winner of multiple prestigious awards, including Most Significant Mercedes-Benz at the 2008 Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance, Merceds-Benz Star of Excellence at the 2009 Amelia Island Concours and Best in Class, European Class Prewar at 2011 Amelia Island Concours. From the Bill Munday Auto Collection.

[John Bloom]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

This car was around 12K US dollars when new John.  Around the cost of a cheaper Duesenberg and much more than a Packard or Caddy.   In the USA the only thing more expensive was a Rolls Royce or the occasional Hisso or Isotta.

AJ, educate me a little, as you think about peers of this era, where do the offerings of Bugatti fit in?

 

 

[alsancle]

6 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

AJ, educate me a little, as you think about peers of this era, where do the offerings of Bugatti fit in?

 

 

 

I think a Royale was more expensive than anything you could buy,  which explains why only 7 were built.   The Type 57 and the 540K are from the same era.   Depending on the body a Supercharged 57C is comparable to the 540K.   Prices are in the same ballpark give or take.   Have never driven the Bugatti but is is much lighter with solid axles so expect a much different experience than the 540K with its 4 wheel independent suspension and lots of weight.   Maybe somebody else could comment?

[prewarnut]

nice understated color.

[8E45E]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:43 AM, alsancle said:

 

I think a Royale was more expensive than anything you could buy,  which explains why only 7 were built.   The Type 57 and the 540K are from the same era.   Depending on the body a Supercharged 57C is comparable to the 540K.   Prices are in the same ballpark give or take.   Have never driven the Bugatti but is is much lighter with solid axles so expect a much different experience than the 540K with its 4 wheel independent suspension and lots of weight.   Maybe somebody else could comment?

I wonder where the Bucciali would have fit in, had it lasted until the war.

 

Craig