Antique or street rod?

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

I recently purchased a '34 Pontiac from a neighbor after it had gone through a tornado. It received some dents and scratches, but it runs. The car has 61,000 miles on it. My problem is this. Do I leave it as an antique or put a V8 in it? The car wanders on the road and really about 35-40 MPH is a safe speed. It overheats if you let it idle. Those problems could be fixed. I'm thinking about putting a more dependable engine, better brakes, air conditioning, etc. and I would then be able to drive it places instead of hauling it. I know what the answer will be on this forum, but need to throw out the possibilities. Would it alter the value that much?

It would be an excellent antique, but also an awesome street rod.:confused:

[Guest]

Well, your asking members who belong to a club that believes that vehicles stay the way they came from the factory so how is that for a answer? 33-34 Pontiac's are one car that if room permits is on my list. I would hate to see another example be street rodded. There are just not that many around to screw up.

Don

[MCHinson]

Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. The answer that you expect here is restore it and it will be a wonderful car to enjoy, preserve, and drive. Consider that answer delivered.

If it only feels safe at 35 to 40, there is something wrong with it. Similar cars properly restored will certainly be safe to operate at faster speeds than that. While I have no personal experience with 1934 Pontiacs, I am aware of other mid 30's restored GM cars that are able to keep up with normal highway speeds.

If you want to turn it into a street rod, I am not going to suggest that you should do it, but it is your car, do what you want to do. If you choose to make a street rod, there are other internet sites with discussion forums that will encourage you to do so.

Hang out here, restore it properly, drive it and enjoy it.

[Rusty_OToole]

If it was in good shape that car should hold the road at 50 to 55 fine and have a top speed of around 85.

It would be easier and cheaper to restore it than to rod it, and when you were done it would be far more valuable.

I know it SOUNDS easy to replace the engine, transmission, rear axle, suspension, brakes, etc etc etc but if you try it you will find out it is FAR easier to repair what is there already.

Or, if you really want to be able to drive anywhere in air conditioned comfort, buy a Camaro. Don't try to turn that car into a Camaro, it isn't worth it.

[1937hd45]

What body style is it?

[61-63]

Restore it. But if you must street rod it at least put a Pontiac v8 in it and not a small block Chevy. You can get a 326 or 350 Pontiac cheap as no one wants them and NOS internal engine components for them are almost free on ebay as no one wants them either.

[Guest dokks6t9]

If it's in real nice shape, fix it, restore, and enjoy it. If it's rough, rod it. Have you seen what some of these "ratrods" owners are getting for their cars??? Stupid!!! I had my 40 Olds at the garage for a oil-change and my buddy made a comment that I should pull out the drivetrain and put in a smallblock,auto, with a newer rearend.As original, I could maybe get $8000 for it; rodded, figure $12-15000.

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

It is a 2 door sedan.

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

I repect all of your opinions and pretty much getting the answer I expected. It is not rough, about the only rust is the running boards. It has been stored since at leat 1994 as that was the last license plates ordered. The person that said to put a Pontiac engine in it makes a good point. I sent this question to several friends and the older ones said keep as is, the younger ones say rod it. I am 65 years old so I guess I am in the middle of that. I just feel that I would drive it more and have more fun with it if it was built to be more dependable. One of my neighbors has two old Studebakers, he says that the rods are worth more money also. I will keep checking back in for more feedback. Thank you for your advice.

[Rusty_OToole]

Have any of these wisenheimers actually built a hot rod?

A rod may be worth more IF it is REALLY well built. Hacking a junkyard motor into an old klunker won't cut it. To get $12000 for that car you will have to spend at least $20000 on it. I am not joking, ask anyone who built a really nice hot rod what it costs. And don't think you can cheap out and get the big bucks, before a buyer will shell out $12000 they will go over it with a fine tooth comb. You can't believe how picky people can be when that kind of money is involved.

I have had a hand in building a few rods. NONE of them were worth as much as the owner had in them.

In other words, if you want a hot rod sell that car to a restorer and buy one already built. You will save untold time and grief and thousands of $$$$ bucks.

[1937hd45]

It's worth spending some money either way, but projects take more time and money than you think. If you have 10 grand in a box you may get it on the road in a few years, if it will be paid for with funds as you get them it will drag on forever. Love those '34 Pontiac grills. Good luck, posta few photos.

It is a 2 door sedan.

[Shop Rat]

A third option is sell it to someone that wants to restore it. Then take the money and put it toward the reliable vehicle of your choice. You get on the road faster and it later shows up at one of our meets where you can come admire it.

So many orginial vehicles have been lost one way or the other over the years. It just seems like such a shame to take one in that good of condition and add it to the list of the lost.

[Dave@Moon]

As original, I could maybe get $8000 for it; rodded, figure $12-15000.

Expect this to change, and soon (to the extent it may still be true for some common cars, 1934 Pontiacs not among them). The last time gas went to $4/gal rodded cars dropped in value substantially (Is anyone buying $25K home-built rods any more? They were in droves in 2004!), and they will the next time it happens as well. When it hits $6/$8/$10 per gallon (and it's going to), the idea of burning that gas to ride around in a street rod will be antithetical. I expect most street rods will be melted down into Hyundais before the next decade (2020s) is out.

Think I'm wrong? I've been to 3 major authentic car shows and 3 car cruises this year. 2 of the 3 authentic shows set records for cars registered. Every car cruise I've been to, and the others I've seen in passing, have been disappointing shells of their former selves.

Meanwhile the historical value of an authentic driving experience will never go out of style. It will cost a fortune to drive an authentic car just as much as it will to drive a street rod, but for that money you're getting more than good looks and transportation. You're getting a connection to history than no 5.7 L V8 anything will give.

And that is where the value in antique cars lies, someplace where circumstances (financial and otherwise) can't take it away.:cool:

[poci1957]

The car wanders on the road and really about 35-40 MPH is a safe speed.

It overheats if you let it idle. I'm thinking about putting a more dependable engine, better brakes, air conditioning, etc. and I would then be able to drive it places

Would it alter the value that much?

MidnightFarmer, I am also in central IL and am sure you have had lots of suggestions to make it a street rod as that is the mindset here. Why authentically restore a car when the herd would like you to have a car just like theirs?

Small block Chevy V8 and automatic

Mustang II front suspension and disc brakes

Cadillac tilt steering column and late model bucket seats inside

Gaudy paint job, possibly with painted grille to save on the chrome bill,

OR all black primer if you are really cheap

Wheels like those of a Hot Wheels car, bought from a catalog

Is it really right to decapitate this car just because you are concerned with overheating and old brakes? If you do not want to drive a non-air conditioned 1934 car at 55 mph (which you can safely do in central IL) then I guess that gives you the answer that restoring this car is not what you want.

But if you really want a street rod then do the world a favor and just buy one already done. They are everywhere and all as listed above, there is no need for yet another. If your answer to that is "I do not want someone elses car, I want to make my own" then that may answer your speculation about future sales value too. And using a Pontiac engine rather than a Chevy probably does not add value either. Why? Because the whole idea of a street rod is to avoid dealing with an obsolete 40 year old engine, is it not?

The street rod herd mentality makes me weary, you would be doing a service to sell it to a restorer as suggested above. I hope that is what happens. Todd

[joe_padavano]

I'll offer the dissenting opinion here (HEY! Put down the pitchforks and torches!)

It's your car, do what you want. I can appreciate a beautiful resto as much as a well done street rod. Frankly, the street rod will probably be used more than the resto. PLEASE, PLEASE do not drop in a small block Chebby motor. BOOOOORING. The engine this car really wants is an OHC Pontiac six, especially the 4bbl Sprint version. There were Sprint intakes and exhaust manifolds for sale at Carlisle this spring.

[poci1957]

See, even Joe's dissenting opinion says the average street rod is boring (I agree) and he carefully says one should be "well done" to indicate that most are not.

His suggestion that an OHC six would be more interesting than usual is correct, but note my comment about obsolete 40 year engines. To amateur rodders "interesting" can translate into "I cannot buy the parts at Auto Zone so no thanks."

This is from a guy with three old Pontiacs and an Alfa Romeo. I know about interesting and obsolete.

[Rusty_OToole]

Joe he's going to do what he wants no matter what we say. I'm just trying to dodge all the plaintive requests for help after he gets his car torn apart and finds out it's not as easy to build a rod as the kid at the gas station said.

I'll leave it for you to explain how to do 2000 hours work in 20 hours, with no knowledge skill or tools and where to buy $5000 worth of parts for $500.

Or, refer him to the HAMB. They will take care of him. Yes they will, one way or the other.

[mrspeedyt]

hey! it's driveable as is.... fix the problems one by one and enjoy it all along the time.... and one day it will be really nice! my one preference is to see it stock...but if you rod it keep it all pontiac!

[Guest]

Have any of these wisenheimers actually built a hot rod?

In other words, if you want a hot rod sell that car to a restorer and buy one already built. You will save untold time and grief and thousands of $$$$ bucks.

Buy a kit car of that vintage look and rod that. Why destroy a piece of history. What could be more dependable than a straight eight and a three speed stick???? Don't be fooled on value, just look at the bath builders take at auctions---and those are as Rusty says really $$$ nice builds. When I take my Olds to our local hang outs once a week where everyone has a small block Chevy in EVERYTHING, guess where I find a crowd hanging around? My Olds with a I-6.

Sorry for shouting.

Don

Edited July 29, 2010 by helfen
spelling of course (see edit history)

[DAVE A]

To me a big part of the fun with a vintage car are those little things that make it less "reliable" than your modern car. They are from a different time when everyone didn't have to drive at 70 miles an hour to get to the corner store or ice cream shop. If you want a modern car, buy one. If you truely want to enjoy "the way it was" buy an antique and restore it to its original as intended condition. Then just watch the smiles as you cruise by at 35 mph!!!

[poci1957]

Actually, mrspeedy may have the best suggestion of all. If the car is drivable as is then fix the mechanicals and enjoy it immediately. Taking it apart to drop in a 350 will take twice as long and twice as much $$ as you think, and a full restoration would take years. But fixing the mechanicals with correct original parts (see Pontiac Parts and Pontiac Auto Parts - California Pontiac Restoration ) and driving it NOW could be the quickest way of all to enjoy driving and not have a money pit either.

Rock chips, kids inside, none of that is a worry with such a car and appreciating them is the fastest growing part of the hobby right now. And if you drive it then decide to sell you could do so immediately anytime without having to put it back together. Good luck, Todd

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

Well I certainly opened a "can of worms"! Most of you on the forum are making me feel guilty for even considering non-stock. I would like to attach a picture but haven't figured out how. I was of the opinion that it is too nice to change, but after I drove it 10 miles to the body shop, I was thinking it needs help. My bodyshop guy has done 5 or 6 street rods and of course he is pushing that. I know deep in my heart that I should leave it alone as most on here have suggested. I just think that I would drive it more and it would be more dependable if it were modified.

What is the HAMB?

I really do appreciate all of your replies and am taking them all into consideration.

Jerry

[Steve Moskowitz]

Jerry, most members of this site are here because they understand the need to preserve our automotive history and are dyed-in-the-wool antique car guys not street rodders. Hence, the passionate responses.

A lot of our members drive their old cars regularly. With some effort you can get your car reliable and safe. In the end, it is YOUR car and you will do with it what you want but I hope you think this through and avoid "taking the easy way out". Your car is not one that is seen every day so it is a valuable piece of our heritage.

H.A.M.B. is a site that caters to street rodders.

Best of luck to you whatever you do. Join AACA!

[Peter Gariepy]

Jerry,

The can of worms you opened is called "passion". We all have it. Some on the side of restoration, others on the side of rods. The AACA is about restorations, so it's not surprising you're getting pushed in that direction here. The HAMB is a forum similar to this, but who prefer rods. You'll find it at THE H.A.M.B. - Powered by vBulletin

You'll find many of us here are members of both forums.

Neither side is right or wrong. Just like people who prefer Chevys over Fords, we all have our preferences.

Glad you joined us here!

Peter

[Guest dokks6t9]

One last thought. When I take my cars to a show, (85 Monte Carlo SS, 1969 Nova SS, 1940 Olds,) people like all three...BUT... they mostly like to stick their heads in the window of the 40 and smell the old car smell. Heck, I take the 40 out more than I do my Nova, as people like it more.. Is it a show winner?? No.. The running boards need to be recovered, the radio doesn't work, the heater doesn't work, the driver side front seat has a tear in it, and the gas gauge doesn't work correctly.Keep the car ORIGINAL. Fix it as you drive.. Steering first, then brakes. (don't drive it before the brakes work better).That's the fun and enjoyment of owning an older car, and I've had my share of street rods, classics, and full blown race cars.

[Tom M]

If you want a modern car, buy one. If you truely want to enjoy "the way it was" buy an antique and restore it to its original as intended condition. Then just watch the smiles as you cruise by at 35 mph!!!

O yes the smiles you put on their faces. I got my car running a few weeks ago took her out for a ride and you wold not believe all the thumps up I received and the heads turning. :cool: Or maybe it was because my trusty companion harley dog was sticking his head out the front window.

[Restorer32]

Coincidentally a friend of mine just last evening bought a '34 Pontiac Sedan off e-Bay. A nice driveable restored car. He is a dyed in the wool rodder but wanted an original unmodified old car to drive on occasion and the '34 Pontiac will fill the bill nicely. It's a very stylish car with a bit of a rod look to it even in stock configuration.

[Shop Rat]

MidnightFarmer, I am also in central IL and am sure you have had lots of suggestions to make it a street rod as that is the mindset here. Why authentically restore a car when the herd would like you to have a car just like theirs?.....

Just to clear it up, you are speaking of "here" as in where you live not "here" as in the AACA Forums, right? :confused:

[Paul Dobbin]

There have been lots of good reply's here. There is merit to all the suggestions, but the decision is yours.

Consider these thing when deciding:

Are your friends antiquers or rodders?

Do you require a perfect car?

Do you enjoy working on it yourself and with friends?

Will you drive you car on trips over 500 miles?

Does you family wish to participate?

Do you know other people with mid 30's cars?

Do you fancy yourself as a automotive designer or a shade tree mechanic?

Is this car an investment?

Would it bother you to put another $30,000 in this old car.

Remember that street rods are seldom welcome at antique car events, but antiques are often a real hit at street rod events. Unfinished cars are also more welcome at street rod events.

A poorly done car is never worth what you'll have in it, so build it for your enjoyment.

A 1934 Pontiac 2 door sedan is not a high dollar car as an antique. (You could spend $30,000 on a total restoration and have a good $15,000 car) Or spend $30,000 on it as a street rod and maybe have a $25,000 car that you might get $15,000 for when you need to sell.

DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY.

I've done both but tend to enjoy the antique car people and tours around the country a lot more than the trophy shows of either group.

The picture is what I did with our 1935 Buick that no antiquer was willing to restore. It has, a Buick V8, auto, PW, PS, leather, tint, tunes, and is plush with A/C which makes the summers better and was a fun 3 1/2 year project. Most of the antique guys love it too because it's all Buick and still looks like a 1935 Buick instead of some pimp-mobile. Not totally stock appearing but in the theme of what a 1935 Buick could look like. (95% of non car people can't see

the difference) We call it a Resto-Mod.

Make your own choice or do like we did, own some of each.

[Shop Rat]

O yes the smiles you put on their faces. I got my car running a few weeks ago took her out for a ride and you wold not believe all the thumps up I received and the heads turning. :cool: Or maybe it was because my trusty companion harley dog was sticking his head out the front window.

Kind of like this car. We saw it in three places in the town of McCall, Idaho and the guy driving it looked like he was in his early to mid 60's.

[poci1957]

Just to clear it up, you are speaking of "here" as in where you live not "here" as in the AACA Forums, right? :confused:

Yes indeed Susan, I should have clarified "here" as meaning his and my area of the country, not the forum, but I think he knew that.

[Guest donny612]

I agree with some of the other posts...there can't be that many of them left. It'd be a real shame to hack it up for a street rod.

[Shop Rat]

Yes indeed Susan, I should have clarified "here" as meaning his and my area of the country, not the forum, but I think he knew that.

He probably did. I just wanted to make sure we all did.

[Rusty_OToole]

Another thing occurred to me today. The 34 Pontiac is one of the last cars made with a wooden body frame. This to me is another argument for preservation or restoration rather than rodding. If you want to cover all kinds of driving, in all weathers, on all kinds of roads a car with a wooden body and a fabric top insert is not a good idea.

The best idea I have heard so far, is to fix what needs to be fixed one thing at a time and enjoy the car. In other words preservation rather than restoration or hot rodding.

It would also be interesting to get a quote from the rod shop guy. Not an estimate, a firm quote in writing stating what all he proposes to do and the total cost with a guarantee that the work will be done to your satisfaction, by a certain date, for a firm price. With a penalty clause for being late or not doing the work to your satisfaction.

I can practically guarantee he will not be willing to do this unless it's for the price of a new Cadillac.

[Guest]

Try to keep in mind that if you decided to rod it that the most important thing to a true Pontiac lover- racer, rodder, or pure stock type of enthusiast is that the engine remain PONTIAC. Not corporate Pontiac, but one of Pontiac engineering's design. Nothing can be worse than taking a Pontiac to a show with a Chevy engine in it. You'll know it right away when a real Pontiac fan comes up a says "congratulations on turning your Pontiac into a Chevy".

Don

BTW, If you read books like A Century of Automotive Style you can get a feel for these cars. The development of the 33-34 Pontiac is very interesting. From the introduction of the straight eight to the shape of the body that Frank Hershey and his designers developed. The borrowed Bentley front grille and the front and rear valances on the fenders that came from the 32 Graham, but with speed streaks pressed into them. The public must have liked it too because sales doubled from the year before. This borrowing has been done many times before. Remember what Earl did for the 40 Chevy? he took the front end from the 40 Buick and grafted it on.....a baby Buick.

I always say , if you can design a better car go out and make one yourself. One way of looking at cars is that they are a piece of rolling art. Now you wouldn't want to scribble over what someone has already done would you?? If you want to scribble just do it on a kit car.

Don

[1937hd45]

H.A.M.B. is a site that caters to street rodders.

Best of luck to you whatever you do. Join AACA!

THE HAMB IS FOR HOT RODS === TRADITIONAL HOT RODS

[Guest bofusmosby]

Jerry

I have been reading all the posts thus far, and I figured I'd go ahead and chime in. I am new to the old car scene. I bought my first (1937 Pontiac 4-door sedan) at the beginning of this year. I always wanted an old car because my passion is, and always has been history. I am also the proud owner of an historical house I am restoring. For you to turn your car into a hot-rod, would be the equilivent to someone buying my old house and tearing half of it down and adding a concrete block addition to it. Part of the house might still be old, but it it would NOT be considered historical or original ever again.

Some people have passion for history, while some do not. That doesn't make either one of us right, or wrong. However, I am of the mind-set that if someone wants a new car (or a new house), then THAT is what that person needs to buy. Don't buy one, and turn it into the other. Since your car is "driveable" as it is right now, then it is a surviver. There's not many of them left. It would be a shame to change a car that has lived its 76 years as one thing, and turn it into something else. If a "fast car" is what you really want, then sell this surviver to someone who will really appreciate it, and buy yourself a car that has already been converted. If you would like to step back into time, then repair your car into a "safe" running car, and enjoy it. The looks and smiles that that old car will produce will be worth it! Dress up in a gangster outfit and have some fun! Thats what I did.

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

All of the posts have been very thought provoking. I sent out an email to my friends that I consider to know something about cars. Their answers were somewhat like on the forum, most say keep original, some say rod it. I think I get the message. I hope my shop guy hasn't pulled the engine yet, ha ha. He had been fixing the dents from the tornado. I like the gangster picture. When we brought the car home, under some blankets in the back seat was a loaded 22 rifle that the previous owner, now deceased, had used to kill varmits out on the farm.

If I leave it stock, any thoughts on a paint color? It is all black now, but I've seen some nice color schemes on the the forum. Do I leave the interior alone?

The comment about the rag top is a concern, as I figured also not good in rain.

Thank you everyone. I will try to post pictures when repainted. Jerry

[Shop Rat]

Midnight Farmer sent two photos to me of the '34 for all of you to look at so here they are.

[Shop Rat]

Now that I have seen the photos, I got to see them first before the rest of you , my vote for sure is either keep it original/restored or sell it to someone that will. It would be tragic to hack it up into another street rod, beautiful as they sometimes are. There are lots of street rods out there already if that is what you want. PLEASE, please don't do that to this car.

To keep it AACA correct you could paint it any color that was available for that year, make and model. It would not have to stay black. And you would need to then have an interior color that was available for that year, make and model. You can get that information for example from the AACA Library and Research Center.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Shop Rat
Add the word have to the first sentence. I swear I know better. (see edit history)