butchered cars

[Dynaflash8]

We as "Antiquer's" don't save them (Except Earl , so

Yeah Paul, I've lost my everyluvin' saving two in my lifetime so a street rodder wouldn't cut it up (a '40 Pontiac and a '39 Buick). I guess I think money isn't everything. Worse though, is I probably only saved them temporarily. I also saved a nice original '35 Buick too, but he hadn't gone too far, and all we had to do was replace the hubs, wheels and tires, headlight innards and exhaust system. That car, unfortunately, was bought by a dealer (in this case described as a wolf in sheeps clothing...I didn't know he was a dealer) and ended up in Spain.

[Guest Bluesky636]

I vote for car #3. The big series 1934-35 Buick 4 door sedans (usually black) fell in the AACA production Class forever overshadowed by the flashy open cars in the same class. They cost as much to restore as an open car causing them to be relagated to last place on the antique car desirability charts in the 70's and 80's. Can't blame folks for not wanting to spend $30,000 to "restore" a car that will be worth $15,000 when done.

I think what was done with the #3 cars is wonderful! How else would we even know what a 34 Buick Series 80 car looks like. (they never really looked as good as this one) We as "Antiquer's" don't save them (Except Earl , so

I choose to admire #3 and think it's a handsome addition to any automotive gathering except on the AACA Judging Field.

Excellent comments.

Car #3 again:

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Here's the interior of car #3:

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Webshots - Full Size Photo

And finally the "ugly" truth comes out:

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Webshots - Full Size Photo

This is what I know about the car. I don't know what shape it was in originally. The owner is a well known collector in the Washington, DC area. He owns several restored to original cars that are beauties. This car was built as a "daily driver" for his family. He wanted something that he and his family could jump into and drive anywhere (which he does) without worrying about having problems. The workmanship on the car is superb. Quite frankily, I think the car is a stunner.

Original? No.

Butchered? Not in my opinion.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Bill, thanks for the photos. Yes, very tastefully done. I would be proud to own, drive ,show and be seen in that car.

Ben

[1937hd45]

Thanks for the update Bill! Here is another thing to think about. If the owner of that Buick was a literature and small parts vendor, could he pack the car with merchandise and folding tables and be allowed on the HERSHEY FLEA MARKET? It is a daily driver, but would the AACA Police rip his vendor sticker off the windsheild? Nice car, I wouldn't mind owning it.

[Paul Dobbin]

Car #3 again:

Original? No.

Butchered? Not in my opinion.

I agree and thanks for the rest of the story. I've seen the car a Louisville and

found it to be one of the nicer Resto Rods I've seen. Kept the flavor of the

original real well.

It could be my story too. Sometimes people look at it and tell me they had one just like it or their fahter did. I also hear "I don't remember leather interiors, must be a Deluxe" "Is it hard to get parts for old cars?" "Is it a Kit Car?" "Is it a Bentley?" (has B on the hub cap) No, it's a Buick! While not all the parts are 1934-35 Buick, it's still a Buick, no Chevrolet parts here! I't a Buick 8, not straight, but V8. Engine, transmission, rear suspension, all Buick

of later years. I have no problem calling it a BUICK.

<TABLE id=role_outline border=0 cellSpacing=0 align=center cols=1><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 2px; PADDING-LEFT: 2px; PADDING-RIGHT: 2px; PADDING-TOP: 2px" id=role_picture vAlign=top align=middle><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 20px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" align=middle>My 1935 Buick Series 40 (Smaller than #3)

is mostly Buick except rack & pinion and fine Corinthian Leather inside. Has A/C and all the comforts. Like the old advertising slogan, "Things Go Better in a Buick"

or "Wouldn't You Really Rather Have A Buick?"

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Guest Bluesky636]

Thanks for the update Bill! Here is another thing to think about. If the owner of that Buick was a literature and small parts vendor, could he pack the car with merchandise and folding tables and be allowed on the HERSHEY FLEA MARKET? It is a daily driver, but would the AACA Police rip his vendor sticker off the windsheild? Nice car, I wouldn't mind owning it.

I think that issue has been addressed in another thread. Let's not open that wound up here.

[Guest Bluesky636]

Bill, thanks for the photos. Yes, very tastefully done. I would be proud to own, drive ,show and be seen in that car.

Ben

The cool thing is, with the hood closed most people don't know the difference. It always draws a crowd.

[Guest Bluesky636]

I agree and thanks for the rest of the story. I've seen the car a Louisville and

found it to be one of the nicer Resto Rods I've seen. Kept the flavor of the

original real well.

You're welcome, and I agree.

[Big Beat]

I want to hear from the people who don't like cars being modified from stock.

#1 is OK if it was built from a repro body, or a lot of work was put into a totally trashed original that wasn't worth restoring AND it was done years ago (these days, a lot of old stuff is rare enough to be restorable that once wasn't considered good enough. With repro parts for these rods easily available today, there's no excuse to ruin anything salvageable anymore). If I knew that a decent Ford was cut up to make that rod, I wouldn't be happy about it.

#2 is a kind of thing that I simply have no appreciation for whatsoever. It's just junk to me. I can understand how someone can have fun building one of these, and it's better to assemble a pile of total junk into something useful than to just let it rust away. But if something decent was cut up in the process to make this thing, I wouldn't be happy about it either.

In any case, I have absolutely no interest in such cars, either hot rods or rat rods or street rods. It's a totally different world and I don't consider myself qualified to pass any kind of judgement on it. I just tend to ignore it. To me, a well preserved stock Pinto holds more interest than either of these two.

#3 I'm no expert on 1930's Buicks, but that car just doesn't look right. What exactly is throwing me off is hard to tell from that one photo. It might have been mildly street-rodded (regrettable, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Such work, at least, is reversible if someone wants to put this car right at a later date). Or, the original was in such bad shape that proper restoration was impossible (in which case, someone did a pretty good job, actually).

[Guest Bluesky636]

#1 is OK if it was built from a repro body, or a lot of work was put into a totally trashed original that wasn't worth restoring AND it was done years ago (these days, a lot of old stuff is rare enough to be restorable that once wasn't considered good enough. With repro parts for these rods easily available today, there's no excuse to ruin anything salvageable anymore). If I knew that a decent Ford was cut up to make that rod, I wouldn't be happy about it.

#2 is a kind of thing that I simply have no appreciation for whatsoever. It's just junk to me. I can understand how someone can have fun building one of these, and it's better to assemble a pile of total junk into something useful than to just let it rust away. But if something decent was cut up in the process to make this thing, I wouldn't be happy about it either.

In any case, I have absolutely no interest in such cars, either hot rods or rat rods or street rods. It's a totally different world and I don't consider myself qualified to pass any kind of judgement on it. I just tend to ignore it. To me, a well preserved stock Pinto holds more interest than either of these two.

#3 I'm no expert on 1930's Buicks, but that car just doesn't look right. What exactly is throwing me off is hard to tell from that one photo. It might have been mildly street-rodded (regrettable, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Such work, at least, is reversible if someone wants to put this car right at a later date). Or, the original was in such bad shape that proper restoration was impossible (in which case, someone did a pretty good job, actually).

#1 - Most rat rods of this genre start as junk and end as junk (my opinion).

#2 - To each his own.

#3 - You missed my post from earlier in which I explained what I know about this vehicle.

[Dynaflash8]

Excellent comments.

Car #3 again:

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Here's the interior of car #3:

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Webshots - Full Size Photo

And finally the "ugly" truth comes out:

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Webshots - Full Size Photo

This is what I know about the car. I don't know what shape it was in originally. The owner is a well known collector in the Washington, DC area. He owns several restored to original cars that are beauties. This car was built as a "daily driver" for his family. He wanted something that he and his family could jump into and drive anywhere (which he does) without worrying about having problems. The workmanship on the car is superb. Quite frankily, I think the car is a stunner.

Original? No.

Butchered? Not in my opinion.

Yes, even I could own and enjoy this car, so long as I kept it out of antique car shows. I don't like the wheels, but otherwishe it is beautiful. And, it could have had leather upholstery when new....the seats have not been modified. No bucket seats, hallalula! In fact, my blue '39 Buick Special sedan has factory leather upholstery. It was one of the options.

[Sweepspear]

I'd say it definitely makes a difference what the car is before. Two true stories.

First is a 1957 Chevy I saw at a local show. The guy told me it was from an old woman's estate. 2 door, light pink with white top, white, black, and silver interior in excellent condition, 26,000 original miles. He ripped out the 6 cylinder and put in a 350 with blower and sawed a hole through the hood for it. He was going to saw open the wheel wells and put on 22" wheels. Then he was going to gut the interior and put in velour bucket seats with flames, chop the top, and paint it flat black with flames. The quality of his work was not good either. I'd say that car was butchered. Too bad it couldn't have found a home with someone that would have treasured it as it was.

That was painful to read.

Sounds like it would have been a sweetheart of a car to keep original.

What was that show that was on Discovery/TLC/History.

Rags to Riches or something?

Followed a guy who bought cars, rebuilt them and then at the end would show the cars at auction.

Anyway, in one episode he bought a very nicely restored '55 Chevy from an older gentleman and proceeded to turn it into a custom rod.

I about cried.

Oh, what was the name of that show.....

[LINC400]

That was painful to read.

Sounds like it would have been a sweetheart of a car to keep original.

What was that show that was on Discovery/TLC/History.

Rags to Riches or something?

Followed a guy who bought cars, rebuilt them and then at the end would show the cars at auction.

Anyway, in one episode he bought a very nicely restored '55 Chevy from an older gentleman and proceeded to turn it into a custom rod.

I about cried.

Oh, what was the name of that show.....

Yep, 1957 Chevys that are not customized are quite rare around here. I walked over to it and was thinking if you just remove the engine and repair the hood, and fix a few other cosmetic things it would be very nice. That is when the owner walked over and told me he bought it from the estate. Everything that needed fixing (lousy repairs too, not just customizing) was what he had just done to it, and then he told me the rest of his plans. I had to restrain from punching him in the face. Fortunately I was spared from having to make any comments by someone else that walked over and told him what fabulous ideas he had. I just walked away.

Never saw the '55 Chevy program. I tend to ignore those shows although I have seen a few.

[Guest BDJRREE]

can you please give me some ctc's in delaware? have a studebaker i want to sell for $1500 but hoping to find someone who will want to restore it rather than buy for parts.

[joe_padavano]

Excellent comments.

Car #3 again:

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Webshots - Full Size Photo

Original? No.

Butchered? Not in my opinion.

Well, the car is "butchered" to the extent that it SHOULD have had a Buick 455 Stage 1, or at least a turbo V6 Grand National motor.

[joe_padavano]

1985 IS an antique whether you like it or not.

Not in my state............

Well, not until Jan 1, 2010, anyway. The 25 year old "antique" definition used by the DMV applies to calendar year, not model year. And yes, Rhode Island DOES have a 25 year old antique automobile registration.

[jdome]

I suppose you guys can debate your opinions as to whether the Buick with the wrong engine (Buick/Chevy, and whatsit speed equipment?), Hokey paint scheme, chopped frame with grafted Nova suspension, pimped interior; is butchered or not. Bastardized comes to my mind.

[Guest Bluesky636]

I suppose you guys can debate your opinions as to whether the Buick with the wrong engine (Buick/Chevy, and whatsit speed equipment?), Hokey paint scheme, chopped frame with grafted Nova suspension, pimped interior; is butchered or not. Bastardized comes to my mind.

Hokey paint scheme? Chopped frame? Grafted Nova suspension? Pimped interior?

I am really puzzled about your comments on the paint and interior. You must have x-ray eyes to see the other things.

[Guest Bluesky636]

I had to restrain from punching him in the face.

Not exactly the image of the antique car owner you would want to present now is it?

[Guest Bluesky636]

Well, the car is "butchered" to the extent that it SHOULD have had a Buick 455 Stage 1, or at least a turbo V6 Grand National motor.

At least its not a SBC.

[Guest 1hooligan]

Being one of the few people who can truly afford to buy any restored car that I would want, but being someone that really only enjoys bringing them back to life. When I kick the bucket there will be several unfinished in my collection for someone to finish, I only hope that they will get as much enjoyment out of them as I have. My feeling is that anyone who tries is better than the hundred that I have run into that "i am going to restore it some day" and I watch it rust into a pile of junk that even the scrap dealer does not want. And most of them think of themselves as purest, not hot rodders.

[jdome]

Hokey paint scheme? Chopped frame? Grafted Nova suspension? Pimped interior?

I am really puzzled about your comments on the paint and interior. You must have x-ray eyes to see the other things.

Hokey paint: Buick body & fenders were same color by 34. Maybe 2-tone was an option but not metallic s**t brown fenders?

Yea leather was optional but not that color or pimp pattern.

You are right about my assumption on the Nova suspension. I could be wrong. But the car has modern wheels that won't fit on the old drums and the front end has that low profile stance of a modern conversion. Might be Mustang front and Ford rear; another typical trans-conversion-resto-upgrade. Dare I use the B word again.

[Guest Bluesky636]

Hokey paint: Buick body & fenders were same color by 34. Maybe 2-tone was an option but not metallic s**t brown fenders?

Yea leather was optional but not that color or pimp pattern.

You are right about my assumption on the Nova suspension. I could be wrong. But the car has modern wheels that won't fit on the old drums and the front end has that low profile stance of a modern conversion. Might be Mustang front and Ford rear; another typical trans-conversion-resto-upgrade. Dare I use the B word again.

This entire thread has been interesting and enlightening to say the least. While it is understandable that people have different tastes in cars, I find it rather distressing the way that some people use to express their taste. Or rather, to criticize the taste of others. This is after all, only a hobby. And quite frankly, I would find it a very boring hobby if cars were only allowed to be built one way. It's the wide variety of vehicles that one finds out there that make this hobby as exciting as it is. True, I don't like rat rods. Nor do I like brass era cars or "ricers," but I can appreciate any well built car without tearing up the owner or the vehicle. That's what I truely find distressing in threads like this.

Well, my little experiment is over. I have nothing else I care to say. To those that enjoyed the photos I presented, I glad you liked them. To everyone else, enjoy your car and this hobby.

[MarkV]

I would agree! I am 21 and love to keep things original! But, my age group they hate it, they want to soup them up, especially the 70's luxury cars. That is why I dont sell the MKV, because it would end up being a low rider, and that is why I bought my Caddy today, because I knew someone would butcher it!

[1937hd45]

I t was a fun read, just wonder if if it is a true face of AACA. Off to Hershey to sell my leftover parts, I know most will sell to Hot Rodders who don't quible over prices.

This entire thread has been interesting and enlightening to say the least. While it is understandable that people have different tastes in cars, I find it rather distressing the way that some people use to express their taste. Or rather, to criticize the taste of others. This is after all, only a hobby. And quite frankly, I would find it a very boring hobby if cars were only allowed to be built one way. It's the wide variety of vehicles that one finds out there that make this hobby as exciting as it is. True, I don't like rat rods. Nor do I like brass era cars or "ricers," but I can appreciate any well built car without tearing up the owner or the vehicle. That's what I truely find distressing in threads like this.

Well, my little experiment is over. I have nothing else I care to say. To those that enjoyed the photos I presented, I glad you liked them. To everyone else, enjoy your car and this hobby.

[LINC400]

Not exactly the image of the antique car owner you would want to present now is it?

What image is that? I didn't do or say anything to the guy. He probably thinks I was just as enthralled with his plans as the other guy he was talking to.

I agree everyone has different tastes. But he could have just as easily done all his plans to a hulk pulled out of a junkyard. He replaced the entire drivetrain, was planning on gutting the interior, and was going to chop the top and repaint. So why did he have to get an excellent condition 26,000 mile all original car with very nice interior and paint to do this?

This is just as sickening to me as someone that takes the low mileage grandpa's treasured Imperial from an estate and runs it in a demo derby. I have nothing against demo derbies if newer old junk cars are used. But there is no reason to destroy nice antiques.

Same deal with customizing. I don't care for customizing. But the 1937 Packard from my previous post doesn't bother me. It would probably still be sitting in a junkyard or crushed if it wasn't for that guy. But the 1957 Chevy was a beautiful car that would have been treasured by many if only they had been able to get to it first. Even though the body still exists, an all original part of history has been lost forever. And even if you like customs, this guy's work was not good.

[LINC400]

I t was a fun read, just wonder if if it is a true face of AACA.

Yes I wonder that myself. It seems that there are a lot of members (not singling out anyone in particular) that say they don't mind XXX. Live and let live everyone has their own taste blah, blah. Then turn around and bash something they don't like, say a 1985 for example . I don't worry about my opinions being politically correct. They are my opinions.

By the way, the 1985's plates expire Nov. 1. So it can be running antique plates as of Nov 1, 2009.

As far as antique, I do not like seeing antiques being destroyed. They are a non-renewable commodity. However, whether something is antique or not does not change my opinion of it. A 1959 Cadillac was wonderful when new, dated in 1965, laughable and tacky in 1970, kitschy in 1980, and a valuable, highly prized antique now. The car never changed. Neither did my opinion of it. I like them. It doesn't have to be 25 years old or more for me to like something.

If I didn't like a car when it was new, I won't like in 10 years, or when it turns the magical 25 years old.

The 1985 hearse is not my car and not my taste. But it would still upset me if someone butchered it into a rat rod. There are only 2.

[1937hd45]

My wife drives a 1985 Ford Crown Vickie every day. Bought from the estate of the original owner across the street for $500. Plan is to run it into the ground, it's a used car, Ford made tens of thousands of them. If someone buys it for a demo derby when we are through with it fine.

[jim43]

We, and those owners before us are all only caretakers. Let "do know harm" be the watch word for all of us when we tear into our old cars.

jim43

[jim43]

I like cars rescued from the crusher. Hot rod-resto rod is the next best step for these unfortunate examples.

Not discussed here is the original purpose of the hot rod. These cars started to happen during a cash strapped depression and a car starved post WWII. by people who haunted junk yards and put their skills to work to make an expression of themselves that would go faster. Almost always a very tight budget car, and those guys are fading from the scene. The modern hotrod has mostly turned into a throw money into it project that was impossible for the pioneers in hot rodding.

Modern rat rods are mostly imitations of some of those older works in progress or poorer examples of those cars in an age when, when cell phones and text messaging are being used in every other car on the road. One probably isn't that safe in a roll cage let alone in a car poorly assembled and traveling faster than it was ever meant to go.

Be careful out there! jim43

[Guest Bluesky636]

It seems that there are a lot of members (not singling out anyone in particular) that say they don't mind XXX. Live and let live everyone has their own taste blah, blah. Then turn around and bash something they don't like, say a 1985 for example .

The 1985 hearse is not my car and not my taste. But it would still upset me if someone butchered it into a rat rod. There are only 2.

That's not even an antique! Its just a used car to many people.

I apologize for bashing your friend's car.

[John_Maine]

I don't like rods or customs, but if that's what floats your boat, then go for it. What I hate to see is someone take a perfectly good original old car and make it something else. If you want to make a rod out of something, use a car that needs to be restored.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I don't like rods or customs, but if that's what floats your boat, then go for it. What I hate to see is someone take a perfectly good original old car and make it something else. If you want to make a rod out of something, use a car that needs to be restored.

I would refine this to: "use a car that is clearly BEYOND restoration"

:cool:

[LINC400]

I apologize for bashing your friend's car.

Thank you.

[joe_padavano]

I would refine this to: "use a car that is clearly BEYOND restoration"

:cool:

Unfortunately, the sad reality is that it is much more cost effective to use a good, straight, rust-free original car than a rusty pile of parts to build a street rod. Quality metal work on a hulk will quickly exceed the purchase price of a restored original.

[1937hd45]

I would refine this to: "use a car that is clearly BEYOND restoration"

:cool:

This statement keeps floating around it must be 30-40 years old now. Face it, even if a pile of trash was rescued and built as a rod you'd still bash the owner, only this time for have more shills than you.

[michel88]

It is still a reality that many AACA award winning show cars are bought by rodders with a lot of money and turned into street rods. This happens even to true Classics. We have had posts on here before by Dave@Moon showing pictures of everything from Packard Darrins to Continental Mark II's with chopped tops. I know they have the right to do what they will with their cars, but I wish they did not "rod" these fine cars. IMHO!

[Jrope]

My favorite is "Don't have time to finish" should read "Don't have brains to finish".

[Paul Dobbin]

A lot of hostility here. Let me tell you a story of how accepting we can be.

At age 26 I bought a 1934 Ford (knowing nothing about Flathead V8 Fords). I towed it home and got it running the same day (the old compression, gas and ignition rule) With no other restored 34 Fords around in 1972 to go by, I restored it by taking it apart and refinishing what I had and finding what was missing from the parts books I could get. When it was finished I drove it to a local car show (1973). It was the best 1934 Ford V8 at local shows until 1998. Nobody critiqued my restoration because it looked nice with all it's faults (which I learned about over time, like 16" wheels instead of 17's, a deluxe color on a standard car, dual glass packs, carpet on the floor instead of rubber) All of which make it "butchered car" in some peoples minds. The V8 Club would have a stroke!

By 1997 I had driven that car for 24 years, 2 Great American Races in the 34 Ford and 9 more in a 1935 Chrysler Airflow plus 100's of local club tours, before I went on my first AACA sponsored Glidden Tour in Thomasville, GA. which we've done ever since. There I was questioned about my glass packs and questioned about the engine because it sounded so good. Once I opened the hood to show a bone stock 1934 engine, everyone was nice and wished the could make their cars run that well and sound that good.

My observation is that when we drive them, judging standards are not as important as on the judging field where a nice bowling trophy with an old car on top is at stake. There are lots of cars restored to trophy standards that never get driven because they're to old and unreliable. Then they get retrofitted with a modern drive line and get a whole new life of automotive use and enjoyment.

While I prefer the original for AACA functions, I understand the appeal of the "butchered" ones. They too are like AACA cars, there is a vast array of quality and workmanship and color choices that I wouldn't choose. But, they are not mine and the owner is happy, so I'm happy for him. It's no my place to judge every car I see. That's what judged shows are for. So, we all should lighten up and not buy "butchered cars" and only judge them when people enter a show to be judged. If we did that more often our club would grow in size and we wouldn't be stereotyped buy people who don't appreciate our unsolicited judgement.

0

[jdome]

I don't know why some people ask for an opinion and when they get one they don't like they whine. It is just an opinion. Not necessarily the wrong opinion, or the right opinion. Just an opinion. What do you expect? This is the AACA forum. Go ask the same question on a hot rod forum and you'll get the opinions you wanted in the first place. "Great hot rods - all of them." Terrific choice of colors. All 3 deserve people's choice awards. Lets chop them all up and drop crate motors in all of them. No wait, The Buick gets a late model Buick engine. Let's keep em "authentic Buick". A Pierce Arrow gets a , ah, ah, ah, what hot rod engine does a Pierce Arrow get to keep it "authentic".

Any ways, you guys have me convinced. I just finished loading for Hershey and heading out in the AM. Can't wait to find a project there I can hack up.