butchered cars

[GARY F]

i look daily at e-bay & craigs list at 30s olds,buick, 54 fords, 59 fords. it makes me sick & p/o at the way these guys start a butchered street rod or have cars with parts taken off & just laying around. they make a mess out of a good original car that i might be interested in. i just had to rant.

[mrpushbutton]

Unfortunately popular culture is slanted that way and at present, the world is making more people who think like that than people who think like us. There are many "how to screw up a perfectly good car" shows on basic cable, not many on real restoration. Restoration to historical originality is being seen as what the old men dying off did with cars. We need more young people to embrace originality. They are out there, but most lack the $$$ to take on restoration or even buy a restored car from the estate of one of the old guys who have gone to the big AACA meet in the sky.

[keiser31]

Unfortunately popular culture is slanted that way and at present, the world is making more people who think like that than people who think like us. There are many "how to screw up a perfectly good car" shows on basic cable, not many on real restoration. Restoration to historical originality is being seen as what the old men dying off did with cars. We need more young people to embrace originality. They are out there, but most lack the $$$ to take on restoration or even buy a restored car from the estate of one of the old guys who have gone to the big AACA meet in the sky.

You know, it seems not only can they "not afford" to do a restoration...they can't even afford to finish the tragic butcher-job that they started and then they try to pawn it off on someone else. What a waste! As I have said in the past...the only good thing about it is that maybe us restorers can reap the stripped off original parts from these guys. Sorry about the jab, but you guys got me started...

Edited September 23, 2009 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

If the pile is cheap enough buy it and sell it off piece by piece. Scrap prices nose dived last year but you can still get a few bucks for the leftovers. One less car makes the others more rare, that sometimes increased their value.

[Guest Bluesky636]

Unfortunately popular culture is slanted that way and at present, the world is making more people who think like that than people who think like us.

Exactly who is the "us" that everyone is supposed to think like?

I like all cars. I enjoy looking at a George Barris custom, a Boyd Coddington street rod, a 30's Duesenburg, or a 60's muscle car. I would love to own any one of them. I agree that it is a shame when someone starts a project, any project, and leaves it unfinished. But I don't accuse them of not thinking like "us."

The only thing that threads like this one accomplish is to create hard feelings between people over something that is supposed to be a fun hobby. :mad:

[joe_padavano]

The only thing that threads like this one accomplish is to create hard feelings between people over something that is supposed to be a fun hobby. :mad:

Amen! We may not all have the same aesthetic values when it comes to automobiles, but the larger automotive hobby (classic restorations, street rods, muscle cars, sport compacts, etc) needs to stick together. Either buy the cars in question and restore them yourself or stop complaining about it.

[Guest Julian]

You know, it seems not only can they "not afford" to do a restoration...

I am open ended on this one.. I Have a nice 42 Olds and it gets (some attention) when I take it out. but if a street rod parks beside me...its all over..not much attention paid to it... as far as young people restoring cars. the hobby has almost been ruined by Barrett Jackson types. my neighborhood is full of young teens and not one is interested in "old cars". They have "tuners" and trucks and the little young girls like them too. I have two 42 Oldsmobiles, a 71 Cutlass convertible, an all original 67 442, a 71 Cutlass Supreme and a 99 Dakota RT with shaker hood and hockey stick stripes and what gets MOST of the attention when I have them all out on the lawn is my convertible and the truck. Most kids and other dont even know what the 442 is...sad..but thats the way it is.....plus if a young man today wanted to buy a car to restore he would have to get an Obama bailout to afford to buy it and start on it...things have gotten way out of hand..

[keiser31]

Amen! We may not all have the same aesthetic values when it comes to automobiles, but the larger automotive hobby (classic restorations, street rods, muscle cars, sport compacts, etc) needs to stick together. Either buy the cars in question and restore them yourself or stop complaining about it.

Please don't get my post wrong...I have no problem with a guy that makes a rod out of an old car. I have a problem with the ones that only get partially done in a bad way and then are sold to someone to "fix". I love a nicely DONE rod.

[joe_padavano]

Please don't get my post wrong...I have no problem with a guy that makes a rod out of an old car. I have a problem with the ones that only get partially done in a bad way and then are sold to someone to "fix". I love a nicely DONE rod.

OK, fair enough, though the same could be said for some aborted "restorations" as well.

[keiser31]

OK, fair enough, though the same could be said for some aborted "restorations" as well.

OHHHH YEAH!!!

[Guest Dean_H.]

About a year ago, I saw some car parts I was interested in, on carigslist. I went to the sellers house and to my surprise, he had a '33 Hupmobile. When he said he was going to hot rod it, I of course, tried to convince him to keep it original.

Basically, it came down to money. "The car was worth more as a hot rod".

I'm not too crazy with the loss of original cars either, but it's a free country and it's their property.

[earl e rizer]

The one thing the internet sites have taught me is there seems to be an endless supply of people who know how to take apart old cars, and a severe shortage of people who know how to put them back together!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Old cars, newer cars, are supposed to be fun. I am trying to have fun with mine, anyway. I am doing it for ME. I hope you like it but if you dont, that is your loss. I will still like it. Yes it is expensive to "restore" one. Especially to show quality. But they dont have to go that far.

Agree with Joe padavano. To each his own and enjoy them all. It would be a dull old world if we all liked the same thing. Of course, I THINK all of you who like any thing but BUICKS have rocks in the head!! So there.

Cheers

Ben

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I have a problem with the rod & custom crowd going after solid, original cars or older restorations, whether it be a common Ford or Chevy, or a "rare" car like a '33 Hupp, Packard, Hudson, etc.

If a vehicle is at the point where it is truly a stripped / rusted hulk that is really a lost-cause in terms of restoration, I can stomach seeing it have a second life as a rod /custom.

It nearly drives me to homicide to be at a show, and hear a coupl'a "Good Guys" crowing about "the nice solid '31 Essex that so & so found and rodded"... :mad:

(Go buy a fiberglass body and build off of that !!!!! )

It further baffles / irks me when I look at some of the workmanship that goes into these cars (regardless of whether the owner did himself or farmed it out) - I find myself wishing "they'd only use their superpowers for good" !

There are some folks out there who "have a concience" and recognize when a given vehicle "is too nice to rod", and leave it alone. Wish there were more of them.

I have seen WAY too many botched / abandonded rod projects languishing in local junkyards, some were painfully obviously straight & solid originals that were now useless either to anyone, rodder or restorer.

There's a guy in my neck of the woods who has a big garage full of waiting "projects", many of them solid, restoreable antiques. Among them is a '35 Ford roadster, that would be a nice, presentable driver as-is... it too is destined for rod-dom...

I get the whole "it's your car, do what you want with it" notion ... but there are only so many original cars out there, and "they are only original once"!

Think before you chop !

:cool:

[1937hd45]

Some cars just look odd restored, a '39'41 Willys stone stock is one, along with the early Model 77.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

Why - because we see restored examples so rarely ?

I'm still waiting to see my first stock Willys 77, but have had the good fortune to see three different '40 -'41 Willys Americars and a '38 Willys pick-up at Macungie.

Somehow they escaped the "Gasser" fate... and they look just fine restored, IMHO.

[keiser31]

Why - because we see restored examples so rarely ?

I'm still waiting to see my first stock Willys 77, but have had the good fortune to see three different '40 -'41 Willys Americars and a '38 Willys pick-up at Macungie.

Somehow they escaped the "Gasser" fate... and they look just fine restored, IMHO.

Here you go...

[boblichty]

I spend a lot of time looking at cars for sale in my area. I am always astonished at how much time and money people spend to ruin perfectly good cars in the name of restoration. Never mind those who mean well, take a car apart and never put it back together because they had no clue what they were doing. I would submit that as many or more cars have been ruined by folks claiming to be restoring the car than rodders ever had.

This week alone I have spotted a fairly nice 1958 Edsel for sale that has been "restored with a garish bright yellow (not Edsel yellow I mean canary) and black paint job with matching black vinyl and yellow velvet upholstry. Or how about a 61 Chrysler 300F with home made rocker panels and rear quarters, or get this a really nicely restored 1956 Oldsmobile with a Chevy 350 ci crate motor installed because his "mechanic" told him thta the perfectly good Olds motor would not be dependable and that parts are not available. Geez, it costs hardly anymore to do a car right but these folks have never heard of AACA, been to Hershey or held a copy of Hemmings in their hand. What a shame.

[poci1957]

I agree with Bob on all of that, they all cost money but no one wants to take any time to research anything and a guy's friends all use 350 Chevys so that must be the way to go.

[R W Burgess]

I know I'm a little late on this subject, but I'll share this story......

I met a group of local antique guys recently. They were sitting at a diner table, and we all got on the subject of politics. Of course, my "goat" was riled as usual. It so happened that a friend of our group was a Virginia State Senator.

After I finished my soapbox tirade, he smiled at me with that senatorial smile and said, "Wayne, you're supposed to "teach those other fellows", not give them a hard time and scold them!";)

Now, I can fuss and raise H with the best of them, and it's really hard for me to do, but I'll always remember those words.

So, guys, how about teaching all of those butchers to please protect "history", while there is some left to protect!

Wayne

[Big Beat]

My biggest problem with hot-rodders is a total lack of originality. I can deal with a really original custom creation, it can be interesting if nothing else. Even bad is good if it's really-way-out-there enough. But there seems to be only three or four iconic styles of hot rods, and EVERYTHING just has to be made to fit that mold. And there must be some kind of law that makes the 350 Chevy engine mandatory. B-O-R-I-N-G.

I seriously think that some company should just manufacture those cookie-cutter hot rods, so that these people can buy them brand new off the rack and leave the good old cars alone. Kinda like the Plymouth Prowler, but more affordable and in several classic styles. It'll be a guaranteed hit.

[keiser31]

My biggest problem with hot-rodders is a total lack of originality. I can deal with a really original custom creation, it can be interesting if nothing else. Even bad is good if it's really-way-out-there enough. But there seems to be only three or four iconic styles of hot rods, and EVERYTHING just has to be made to fit that mold. And there must be some kind of law that makes the 350 Chevy engine mandatory. B-O-R-I-N-G.

I seriously think that some company should just manufacture those cookie-cutter hot rods, so that these people can buy them brand new off the rack and leave the good old cars alone. Kinda like the Plymouth Prowler, but more affordable and in several classic styles. It'll be a guaranteed hit.

I could NOT agree MORE!! Those 350s may be easy and inexpensive to build, but I am sooooo tired of seeing nothing but THOSE in every rod. After all...how many different ways can you make those look?

[joe_padavano]

I could NOT agree MORE!! Those 350s may be easy and inexpensive to build, but I am sooooo tired of seeing nothing but THOSE in every rod. After all...how many different ways can you make those look?

I agree with you on the belly-button SBC, but there are a lot of very nice rods out there with non-Chevy motors. The Olds J2, Buick Nailhead, and Y-block Ford motors are becoming more popular and new parts are being released. There's also much room for innovation. I still lust over a track roadster that I saw that uses an Olds Quad 4 dressed to look like a vintage Offy.

[earl e rizer]

"I still lust over a track roadster that I saw that uses an Olds Quad 4 dressed to look like a vintage Offy."

I would love to see a picture of that engine. Always thought those Quads looked "50's exotic"

[Guest abh3usn]

I understand your inital complaint. However, the economy did take a huge dump not to long ago. My wife had lost her job at the thime and with the current anti-capitalists administration things haven't gotten much better. I have considered selling my 77 MGB project to hlep get us through bills. I was recently made a permanent federal employee which is a great help however, with no raise or promotion in the future it still makes life tough. Not all cars are sold, mid-project because of lack of interest. Many are sold because the person simply needs the money.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I spend a lot of time looking at cars for sale in my area. I am always astonished at how much time and money people spend to ruin perfectly good cars in the name of restoration. Never mind those who mean well, take a car apart and never put it back together because they had no clue what they were doing. I would submit that as many or more cars have been ruined by folks claiming to be restoring the car than rodders ever had.

This week alone I have spotted a fairly nice 1958 Edsel for sale that has been "restored with a garish bright yellow (not Edsel yellow I mean canary) and black paint job with matching black vinyl and yellow velvet upholstry. Or how about a 61 Chrysler 300F with home made rocker panels and rear quarters, or get this a really nicely restored 1956 Oldsmobile with a Chevy 350 ci crate motor installed because his "mechanic" told him thta the perfectly good Olds motor would not be dependable and that parts are not available. Geez, it costs hardly anymore to do a car right but these folks have never heard of AACA, been to Hershey or held a copy of Hemmings in their hand. What a shame.

Bob,

I am with you as far as "poor" or "uninformed" attempts at "restoration" go; my '41 De Soto was / is an original car that was repainted & reupholstered some years before I bought it.

The repaint was a pretty good job, in the original color (black), but no one removed any of the side trim mouldings, so the original rust lurking behind, kept working, and has crept-out from under the mouldings, making the car look pretty shaby.

The upholstery looks like a JC Whitney kit, poorly installed. The material is not even remotely close to stock. and worse yet, ALL traces of the original interior were discarded long, long ago.

That said, the "injustices" done to my car, and the cars you mentioned above, all these "poor attempts" at restoration are REVERSIBLE... someone could come along, and put things right.

That's a lot harder to do when a vehicle has been rodded. ( Chopped, channelled, slammed, tubbed, blown, tufted, tucked & rolled, frenched, leaded, shall I keep going ?)

I think it is a criminal act to "Rod" an intact, functional survivor.

And, Wayne made a good point: us preservationists should try to make a positive case for resto / preservation over rods.

One positive boost is to get out there and DRIVE that stock antique, if for no other reason than to enjoy your car, AND prove that stock antiques can be driven and enjoyed.

[Dandy Dave]

The last time I had the 15 out it started knocking. :eek: Should I put a 350 chevy in her and mag wheels all around?..Lets see.... 9 inch ford rear, elderbrock intake, high lift cam -N- all that outher junk and then sell it for big money just because I will hate it but it will be worth more. ..........

Maybe it will be easier to re-babitt the bad bearing and keep having fun. :cool:

Guess what my winter project will be this year. Dandy Dave!

[Dynaflash8]

If the pile is cheap enough buy it and sell it off piece by piece. Scrap prices nose dived last year but you can still get a few bucks for the leftovers. One less car makes the others more rare, that sometimes increased their value.

That doesn't do a thing to bring back or save a destroyed piece of American history. I agree with the poster. I get sick to my stomach with every street rod I see. A friend said the other night at a "cruise-in" where my car was the only original car there out of approximately 50 attending, he said, "don't worry, when you're gone somebody will get your cars and cut them up just like that." I'm sure he is right, because even though I won't know about it, my children can't afford for me to give all of my cars to the Museum. And besides, the museums won't promise to keep them and keep them away from street rodders anyway; so why bother?

[Big Beat]

I recently did an eBay search for pre-war cars. There must have been at least 20 "rat rods" for every original car. Not only have the cars been cut up, but the owners don't even keep them after cutting them up. What's the point then?

It's even worse for some newer cars, though. I am so sick of people who look at my stock '79 Monte and say "wow, cool car, man, if I had one like that, I'd put on some nice chrome wheels, drop in a 350, paint it purple, add a bitchin' sound system..." It's like they can't appreciate the car except as raw material for a ghetto lowrider. That "Training Day" movie sure didn't help

[Guest Bluesky636]

I recently did an eBay search for pre-war cars. There must have been at least 20 "rat rods" for every original car. Not only have the cars been cut up, but the owners don't even keep them after cutting them up. What's the point then?

It's even worse for some newer cars, though. I am so sick of people who look at my stock '79 Monte and say "wow, cool car, man, if I had one like that, I'd put on some nice chrome wheels, drop in a 350, paint it purple, add a bitchin' sound system..." It's like they can't appreciate the car except as raw material for a ghetto lowrider. That "Training Day" movie sure didn't help

Different strokes for different folks.

Last time I looked, no one here has the right to tell anyone else how they can build their car.

Oh, and I have chrome wheels on my car and a bitchin' sound system.

[1937hd45]

Were do you think most of the parts at Hershey come from?

[LINC400]

Different strokes for different folks.

Last time I looked, no one here has the right to tell anyone else how they can build their car.

Oh, and I have chrome wheels on my car and a bitchin' sound system.

No one has the right to tell anyone how to build their car.

No one has the right to tell me what I am supposed to like or not like either. If I see a car, I am free to express my opinion of it. I wouldn't insult the owner to his face, but that doesn't mean I have to like or pretend to like his car. If I see a car that I would have liked to have bought, but a butchered custom job makes it not possible to return it to stock, it doesn't mean I can't be upset about that.

Every car show on TV focuses on rodding and customizing. My friend has a car that is quite unique and one of only two built. Any time it is at a car show people have to come up to him and tell him how they would chop, tub, paint, put 22" wheels on it. It is a shame that people cannot appreciate a rare car for what it is, and feel that they have to customize it exactly the same as all the other customs to make it "different". So he has to hear these comments all the time, but cannot state that he likes cars to be stock?

Maybe if there were some programs that showed how to properly restore a car back to stock condition correctly, and educate people on the value of rare stock originals, there would be more appreciation for them.

[Guest Bluesky636]

No one has the right to tell anyone how to build their car.

No one has the right to tell me what I am supposed to like or not like either. If I see a car, I am free to express my opinion of it. I wouldn't insult the owner to his face, but that doesn't mean I have to like or pretend to like his car. If I see a car that I would have liked to have bought, but a butchered custom job makes it not possible to return it to stock, it doesn't mean I can't be upset about that.

Every car show on TV focuses on rodding and customizing. My friend has a car that is quite unique and one of only two built. Any time it is at a car show people have to come up to him and tell him how they would chop, tub, paint, put 22" wheels on it. It is a shame that people cannot appreciate a rare car for what it is, and feel that they have to customize it exactly the same as all the other customs to make it "different". So he has to hear these comments all the time, but cannot state that he likes cars to be stock?

Maybe if there were some programs that showed how to properly restore a car back to stock condition correctly, and educate people on the value of rare stock originals, there would be more appreciation for them.

So instead of just complaining about it (over and over and over), what do you or your friend do to educate people?

[1937hd45]

PLEASE! We are all on pins and needles wondering what this rare piece of automotive history is, one of only two and he takes out in public? Brave owner.

My friend has a car that is quite unique and one of only two built. Any time it is at a car show people have to come up to him and tell him how they would chop, tub, paint, put 22" wheels on it. It is a shame that people cannot appreciate a rare car for what it is, and feel that they have to customize it exactly the same as all the other customs to make it "different". So he has to hear these comments all the time, but cannot state that he likes cars to be stock?

[Big Beat]

Last time I looked, no one here has the right to tell anyone else how they can build their car.

Oh, and I have chrome wheels on my car and a bitchin' sound system.

I agree, whatever works for you. Nothing wrong with chrome wheels per se. I'm not about to tell people how to live their lives, and I don't consider everyone who disagrees with me to be wrong. But that's not really the point, is it? What I'm talking about is the general trend. If half the people would tell me about how they'd chop up my car, that's perfectly fine. When it's closer to 98%, something's wrong.

[LINC400]

So instead of just complaining about it (over and over and over), what do you or your friend do to educate people?

Complaining over and over and over? I have one post out of 4 pages.

There is a sign in the window explaining what the car is and its entire history. He answers any reasonable questions for people too lazy to read the sign. I know enough about it to answer any questions if he is not around. But most people would rather watch Pimp My Ride on the DVD player in their trunk than actually read or learn something. Then of course since he knows its entire history and we have personally met the coachbuilder and the customer that originally ordered them, there are always those people people that tell him he is wrong, and they know what it is better than he does. Especially since they have never seen one before.

[LINC400]

PLEASE! We are all on pins and needles wondering what this rare piece of automotive history is, one of only two and he takes out in public? Brave owner.

It is one of two combination coaches (hearse) special ordered in 1985. It has completely unique bodywork and looks like no other hearse.

[Guest Bluesky636]

Complaining over and over and over? I have one post out of 4 pages.

I wasn't referring to your post count.

[Guest Bluesky636]

It is one of two combination coaches (hearse) special ordered in 1985. It has completely unique bodywork and looks like no other hearse.

That's not even an antique! Its just a used car to many people.

[Guest Bluesky636]

Which car(s) have been butchered?

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