Reatta Man Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Anyone going to the Kruse auction in Auburn? I haven't been in several years, but will be there this year. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rohn Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) a lot of people from the FEBRUARY sale in Tucson still have not gotten paid, the news release said Kruse "should" be able to pay them after the Labor Day sale ...so how long will the consignors from the Labor Day sale have to wait to get paid?News article:Kruse Auction reneges on promiseAutoweek article:another:http://wimzit.com/2009/06/04/public-auto-auction-company-kruse-getting-complaints/another:Kruse Auction Sellers Beaware. - Page 2 - Classic Car - Where Car Lovers Clickanother:http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=584376&sid=f6636abd40d333de2f3c13a101cbb1ebanother:Kruse Auctions Trouble? - Club Cobraanother:http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=5402565another:http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=5409891another:http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=197987you get the idea ... Edited August 13, 2009 by Jim Rohn (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 WOW, I was wondering why the number of cars entered in the auction seemed to be low this close to the auction date!Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 I've sold a couple of cars through Kruse years ago, and bought several cars through their auctions here in Texas. If the car doesn't sell, the owner can remove it immediately. If Kruse acts as a buyer, they are obligated to pay the seller within the contract limitations. If there is some funny business going on here, it would definitely be chasing away sellers, and then, eventually, buyers. I'm not stating anything about the Kruse organization and what is going on right now. While my experiences were very, very positive, I know things can change quickly if new people take over an old organization. I hope that if they are having problems, they are temporary or easily explained. This hobby is built on integrity first among those that support it; if anything starts putting that at risk, the hobby is in trouble, not just one auction house or dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Thanks for the restraint guys. Your comments are straighforward without causing this site a problem. It can be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 According to the Better Business Bureau, Kruse has an "F" rating:BBB Review of Kruse International in Auburn, INAlso, their Web site claims they "expect 5,000 cars" for the Auburn auction. So far, as of this morning, 1,344 cars are listed to be auctioned off. For a company dealing with millions of dollars worth of other people's cars, these are not good signs. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rohn Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I would not consign anything with them with that historywhen they publicly state that the sellers that have been stiffed from as early as February "anticipates that everyone will get paid" AFTER their labor Day auction, that only tells me they are robbing from Peter to pay Paul, bad all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Recieved the catalog,alot of nice cars,but i think auction estimates are a bit high for the economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Kruse blames dealers/buyers who are slow to pay for cars they purchased for the problem. When you sign as a bidder though, you have to prove you have the funds to pay, sometimes providing a bank letter of guarantee. The seller turns over the car & title to the auctioneer before the auction. I don't understand why an auctioneer turned the car & title over to a buyer before they pay. Seems to me the seller is entitled to get his car back, that should have been held by the auctioneer, if the buyer fails to pay as guaranteed in the specified time.. Perhaps also a refund of seller's entry fees if the auctioneer failed to verify buyer's credit worthiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rohn Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 perhaps ... that would make sense though ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Hearn Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 It seems to me that if you consign your vehicle to an auction company it is accepted on a fiduciary basis. They have an obligation to safeguard the property and to generate the maximum return. The vehicle should only be released after good funds are received from the buyer and those monies should then be placed in an escrow account, not commingled with the auction company's operating funds.If the funds are not there to pay a consignor, then a conversion has occurred and the violator should be prosecuted. To allow a company to continue when a deficit occurs places the public at risk and allows a continuation of the "robbing Peter to pay Paul" scheme. Given the information that is available, one would wonder why anyone would consign a vehicle to this sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) We have not changed our policy on vendors. However, this is public knowledge and so far people are being restrained in their comments. We appreciate that. Since the Kruse organization is making statements in public and the news media is reporting on this issue there are facts that we can deal with so at this point the thread can stay.However, despite their announcements on their website KRUSE INTERNATIONAL IS NOT INVOLVED IN ANYWAY WITH THE EASTERN DIVISION FALL MEET IN HERSHEY Edited August 21, 2009 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenie Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Since the circus won't be in town, check out the jam session in the middle of the chocolate field. This year I am bringing a lawn chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 KRUSE INTERNATIONAL IS NOT INVOLVED IN ANYWAY WITH THE EASTERN DIVISION FALL MEET IN HERSHEYSteve, Thanks for the clarification. AACA has a stellar reputation, and from what I hear about Hershey, it is a first class event. Glad to see these organizations not being splashed with any of the mud that may or may not be tossed around. If anyone else will be at Kruse on Labor Day weekend, let me know. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tejoe Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I'm a newbie who happened to be visiting in Auburn this past weekend. This is accurate! As of last Friday only 700 cars consigned this year (normally several thousand); not a SINGLE one on the lot yet. Who knows how many will actually show up - it appears the word is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Wow, Tejoe! You may have just saved me the hassle and possible expense of a hotel room in or around Auburn. No reason to drive for 2+ hours only to be disappointed!Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I frequently go to the Auburn auction but decided to skip it this year. This info makes me glad I'm not going this year. What a shame. It was always interesting just to check out all the cars even if you weren't buying. I wonder if this will be the beginning of the end of this event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Does anyone else remember when in 1980 or so the proceeds of the Kruse auction in Atlantic City were seized by Federal Agents immediately following the auction over a non-payment/tax issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 A RED-HOT MARKET IN VINTAGE CARS - The New York TimesHere's an interesting article I stumbled upon by accident. Don't know if it was posted here before or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) K8096,The article you specify quotes Stephen B. Chapman as stating:"Right now you can get into a mid-1960s (Pontiac) GTO for $7,000 to $ 9,000. Three years from now it should be worth twice that"At that price, please put me on the list for a few..............Seriously , the article is not far off the mark, but aimed at the investor, moreso than the enthusiast.Thanks for the reference Edited August 25, 2009 by Marty Roth correction of quote (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 A RED-HOT MARKET IN VINTAGE CARS - The New York TimesHere's an interesting article I stumbled upon by accident. Don't know if it was posted here before or not.Now I understand this investment/hobby. I'm not collecting the right cars. I need to buy a couple Ferrari and Bugattis. I'm glad Dean Kruse was quoted in the article telling us how to invest in this hobby. Can he tell us how to get paid too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Just remember Kruse makes his money when people sign up a car, and if it sells, when the buyer pays for the car. And of course, he makes more money when the car prices go up. So he has to try to get traffic to his auctions, in terms of foot traffic and cars brought to the auction for sale, whether they sell or not. And saying things in a NY Times article is just free publicity for him. I also got his catalogue recently in the mail. It looks as if, just based upon his catalogue, as if it will be as big as in the previous boom years. However, I also remember that most of the really unusual cars, such as celebrity-owned cars or very rare cars, almost NEVER sell at Kruse. Sometimes I can't help but wonder if he may even pay the owner of a Howard Huges car to bring it to the auction, knowing it probably won't sell, just so he can feature it as a highlight car to build foot traffic. So, it will be interesting to see this year if the hype matches the actual outcome. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 If you are the owner of, let's say a Duesenberg, then yes there can sometimes be certain incentives to bring your car to an auction, whether it's really for sale or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 If you are the owner of, let's say a Duesenberg, then yes there can sometimes be certain incentives to bring your car to an auction, whether it's really for sale or not.I know of a Duesenberg owner being approached to do this. He had no intention of selling his car, and the auction house said, "we don't care, we just want it for the publicity, you don't have to sell it" Talk about pimping out your car. Thankfully, he didnt' do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rohn Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 A RED-HOT MARKET IN VINTAGE CARS - The New York TimesHere's an interesting article I stumbled upon by accident. Don't know if it was posted here before or not.that article appeared in the New York Times in December of 1988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I know of a Duesenberg owner being approached to do this. He had no intention of selling his car, and the auction house said, "we don't care, we just want it for the publicity, you don't have to sell it" Talk about pimping out your car. Thankfully, he didnt' do it.This doesn't happen as much as you think, at least with the astute collectors. Nothing devalues a car faster then multiple trips to the auction block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 The auction is ongoing, and a very large crowd is here. However, the crowd is slightly smaller than previous years, there are some really low bids, and the overall quality of the cars is down somewhat. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Marx Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 In the swap meet at 10:00 saturday morning, you could roll a bowling ball down the rows and hit no anyone!!!! Turn out was poor and there were lots of empty vendor spaces. Over all, the swap meet was very poorly attended by all. Hey, yhat $20 admission is a big bite in the back side!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I was at the auction park on Friday afternoon for a couple hours. I go to Auburn for the ACD Club meet, not the auction, but Kruse gives everyone who registers for the ACD meet meet a free pass to the auction park; so we go for a few hours just to look. The flea market was fairly crowded on Friday afternoon. There were a lot of golf carts buzzing around. As with the past several years, the auction is very heavy in low end post war cars with only a smattering of quality pre war stuff. Several big dealers has tents there as well including Hyman. It did look like there were fewer cars there than in the past, but it wasn't "dead" by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dep5 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Sat at the auction. . . Where are the cars? It appears that at least half of the expected cars were no-shows. Plenty of spectators but Kruse was trying to sell from an empty cart. Speaking of carts, the golf carts were as numerous and as annoying as mosquitoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 I have to admit; I rented a cart for me and my wife this year for the first time. You can sure see a lot more and cover a lot more ground with one, but they can be a pain if driven by a jerk, whether you are walking OR riding. Same problems; talking on a #$$% cell phone, drinking, looking any way but straight ahead, etc., etc.....As for the cars, there was definitely a drop in quality. Lots of 10-footers, 20-footers, or cars with a great paint job and a half-finished interior or engine compartment. The 35-foot motor home with low miles and an extended warranty that sold for $26,000 late Saturday night was a shock. I looked it up later, and it had a $49-59K book value. Sad, but apparently the seller was desperate. As for the cars, the better quality and better buys seemed to be scattered around the car corral, not at the auction rings. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I too go to Auburn for the ACD festivities, so Thursday morning is my time to go visit the Kruse auction. My observation was more vendors in the flea market than some previous years. The number and quantity of cars was way off from previous years. The Duesenberg building which used to house the high end classics is now an art fair. The room with the Corvetts was empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boblichty Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 As a dealer who has bought and sold a number of cars a Kruse I can assure you. we all had to pay for our purchases on sight, so I don't feel that is a fair excuse. Most bidders must provide a back letter of credit and all purchases must be paid for before removing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Yes, BUT is the purchase money being forwarded to the seller in a timely fashiomn? That's the million dollar question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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