Anyone have advice about driving a Model A daily?

[Peter Gariepy]

Over the years my daily drivers have been anywhere from a 1946 Chrysler to my current 1973 VW Super Beetle.

Recently I saw a nice Ford Model A Tudor sedan. Pretty much factory stock accept for a electric fuel pump.

So, the question is... other than keeping the brakes well adjusted what other problems might i run into with this car?

I drive 12 miles to work round trip. Max speed limit is 35.

I'd probably just insure it for liability.

Feedback?

Peter

[Guest rbl2]

Spectators viewing it while you were working would/might have a field day with it. I can't even walk in the store to get a cold drink w/o people gathering around my Chevy.

One time I went in the post office and while I was in there some man crawled under my car.

Another time while I was at a state park museum a man put one of his kids behind the wheel of my car.

Granted, these are isolated cases but they are something for you to ponder.

For the record, my car is far, far from a show car. It's still under construction, as I tell people.

Other than that, if you think you can drive that 12 miles safely, go for it. The bottom line for most of us in owning these cars is to enjoy them by driving them.

[Guest elmo39]

Peter

some people say i am getting senile as i get older , but i am sure that the Model A i owned when i was a teenager was gravity fed and didn't have a fuel pump, electic or otherwise.

[MCHinson]

elmos39, you are not senile. A Model A Ford uses gravity feed.

Peter, Model A's are great reliable cars to drive under the condition that you describe. There are only two problems that I would forsee.

1. Climate Control and

2. Other Idiot Drivers

1. We drove our Model A about 100 miles a day in the Sentimental tour. It was great fun, but it was about 90 degrees each day. We were drenched in sweat each day. It took a lot out of my disabled wife. How is your weather? (Oh, and it does not have a heater either for those cold days.)

2. Every now and then somebody decides to pull out right in front of you because they don't want to be behind what they perceive as an old slow car. That may not be a problem if your commute is all in a 35 mph zone, but it is a pain in a 55 mph zone. The Model A has good mechanical brakes... but they are not hydraulic.

PS, if you decide to do it, you will probably have more fun than you have ever had commuting to work. Everybody likes to smile, wave, give you a thumbs up, and blow their horn, hoping to hear you blow yours....

[R W Burgess]

AhhhOOOGGGAAAA!!!!!!

[Peter Gariepy]

Elmo - it will have an aftermarket electric fuel pump.

RBL2 - I dont mind the spectators, par for the course driving an old car. My office is isolated so dont much worry about people there.

MCHinson - You'll laugh, but I live in Tucson AZ. 10 months out of the year the drive will be between 50-90 degrees. As to climate control, for the most part i havent had air conditioning (or a working heater) in my daily driver ever, so i'll survived.

[R W Burgess]

Check out the leg room, Peter. Then again, maybe a sedan has more foot (size 12??) and leg room than that sport coupe I drove in Hershey????

Wayne

[Durant Mike]

I'd consider adding one of those aftermarket modern 6 volt third brake lights that you can put in your rear window. You can fix them to just plug in so you can remove it when you don't want it shown. It might add to the safety depending on how much traffic is on the road where you travel.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peter Gariepy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...10 months out of the year the drive will be between 50-90 degrees. As to climate control, for the most part i havent had air conditioning (or a working heater) in my daily driver ever, so i'll survived. </div></div>

And you can always go "old school". A friend that takes care of one of my horses has a golf cart she uses to get from the barn out to the field on the other end of her property. For Christmas two years ago Bill and I got her a "heater" for those cold winter days. A double thick <span style="font-style: italic">Martha Stewart </span> polar-fleece throw.

[MCHinson]

The 28's and 29's have less room than the 30's and 31's. While I have never had a Tudor Sedan, I think the Tudor has more room than a sport coupe. My 31 Town Sedan that I used to have was a lot easier to get in and out of than my 29 Phaeton is. The 29 Sport Coupe that I owned for a short while was a little bit easier to get in and out of than the Phaeton.

As long as you are used to not having Heat and Air, I say go for it. Besides.... It's a dry heat.... Right?

[Guest rbl2]

Didn't Model A's have a manifold heater?

[MCHinson]

rbl2, Not bone stock Model A's. Besides, the manifold heaters were not much more heater than you get from the heat of the engine coming through the firewall normally. (winter AND summer)

[Guest rbl2]

Matt, I don't doubt what you say about the efficiency of a manifold heater but I have also heard the opposite to the extreme they will melt modern sneakers.

My roadster has enough heat come through the floor in the summer to make it uncomfortable and I have wondered if there isn't a way I can insulate it.

[MCHinson]

Without a fan, you can't do much to regulate the heat to make it comfortable. Melting your shoes is not exactly what you are trying to do with a heater is it? The point that I was making was that heat will come through the floorboard (even in the summer) without a manifold heater. In the winter, you get fairly comfortable heat through the floorboard without a manifold heater (at least for our temperatures here in Southeastern NC).

[Guest rbl2]

I understand about heat flow with a fan. My manifold heater, yet to be installed, has an adjustable gate to control airflow.

Mine being an open car, even here in Southern Misissippi, it gets cold in that car riding down the road on the cooler days.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10 months out of the year the drive will be between 50-90 degrees. </div></div>

Peter, I take it that those 115-120 degree days I hear about are during the other 2 months out of the year. Are you going to be using the car those months as well? If so will modern fuels (which in open systems begin to boil away at those temperatures anyway, without any engine heat) be able to cope with those conditions on a regular basis? Will you be dealing with a boiling/leaking fuel from the carb/fuel lines/etc.?

A show car that's in a garage all day or used infrequently will not have the same problems in this respect as a hot car that's parked and left on a hot blacktop all afternoon.

Is the cooling system up to these temperatures as well?

[Peter Gariepy]

dave,

115-120 degree's are at the extreme and are rare.

100-105 would be more common, but that is at the peak of the day. I'll drive to work before 8am. It's not uncommon to have a 30 deg temperature swing during the summer, so my morning drive will be more like 75-80deg. My drive home will be after 5 and would certainly be 100 deg.

As to the car sitting in a parking lot "cooking". I havent thought about that. And it certainly could be a problem.

The simple solution is that i garage the Model A during the summer months and simply drive a modern car. (ie, 73 VW)

[Guest aussie610]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Peter, I take it that those 115-120 degree days I hear about are during the other 2 months out of the year. Are you going to be using the car those months as well? If so will modern fuels (which in open systems begin to boil away at those temperatures anyway, without any engine heat) be able to cope with those conditions on a regular basis? Will you be dealing with a boiling/leaking fuel from the carb/fuel lines/etc.?</div></div>

Would have thought leaks in the fuel lines would be a maintenance issue, nothing to do with new fuel, if the new fuel is eating your lines, use modern lines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the cooling system up to these temperatures as well? </div></div>

Would have thought, it would be as up to it as it was when new, if <span style="text-decoration: underline">properly maintained</span>... What might present an issue would be traffic. Dont know the situation where you are, but bumper to bumper traffic may overload the cooling as they were not designed for that situation.

I think all of the reliability issues people seem to have relate to cars that are not used regularly or not maintained regularly (well from what I have seen). those that are used regularly tend to run better, so get out and use your car.

How about you test it for a month, keep the other car as a backup and run the A, see how you go

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would have thought leaks in the fuel lines would be a maintenance issue, nothing to do with new fuel, if the new fuel is eating your lines, use modern lines </div></div>

The probelm isn't the deterioration of fuels lines. Here in the U.S. "gasoline" was redefined in the mid-1990s to include a range of lighter compounds that boil at much lower temperatures than was the case when the Model A was new. This was done after fuel injection was the norm, and gasoline rarely sat in uncontained systems open to atmospheric pressure. Components of gasoline will begin to boil somewhere <span style="text-decoration: underline">below</span> 100 degrees F, and nearly all components will boil before temperatures reach 175 degrees F. Most people call this fuel percolation when it occurs in a carburetor.

In extreme cases this can cause a dangerous condition under the hood when the engine is turned off and fuel sits still in hot areas. My 1960 Buick had a very small carb (<span style="font-style: italic">for a big-block V8, it was a rare "export" model with low compression for regular gas</span>) and a fuel line that ran along the engine block. It got to where there were virtual cascades of re-condensed & expelled fuel dripping off of the carb at shut-off. It took years to figure out, but a switched electric fuel pump and relocated fuel line was the only way I could get the car to be safely driven.

Sitting out in the hot sun on an "extreme" day will likely get a car in Tuscon hot enough to percolate a goodly proportion of the gas in the carb and engine compartment fuel lines even with no engine heat. Longer term even the gas in the tank could be seriously effected by the vaporization of lighter components, if there's not a good seal to keep the (somewhat pressurized) vapors in.

[Matt Harwood]

A Model A with a fuel pump? Why, may I ask? There's only about a foot of fuel line in the entire system. There's just no reason a properly operating A should have a fuel pump.

That said, it's hard to keep a Model A from running--they'll practically run on Aqua-Velva underwater if you let them. They're reliable as hell, and repairs are anvil simple in most cases. Parts are plentiful and cheap. We've only been stranded once in 30 years of ownership. They're fine drivers at 35 MPH and get acceptable, if not great, fuel mileage. A closed car will be comfortable many more days than an open car.

However, you should watch out for the issue my father always had. He thought an old car would be a great commuter. First he bought a '34 Ford sedan, but it was too nice. Then he bought a Model A, thinking that it was a cheap car so he could save the V8 for nice weather. Then he realized the A roadster was too nice and too "open" for the daily grind and bought a '41 Buick Super coupe. He actually DID drive that daily for 4 years before it was unceremoniously terminated by a drunk. But a '41 Buick is a modern car for all intents and purposes, particularly compared to the A.

Also think about your mental state with such a car. Can you really bear to drive it, get road rash all over it, drive it in inclement weather, and basically watch a neat old car become nothing more than a used car? In theory, sure. In practice, when you see it getting banged up in the daily grind, well, that may be something else. Even my modern cars depress me when they aren't perfect.

Can you live without the real creature comforts that even the most basic new car offers? Radio, heat (as others have mentioned) and the "don't think about anything" driving style that comes with newer iron? I love my drive home because it's quiet and comfortable and I don't have to think about operating the car. On hot days, the A/C is like heaven, and in winter the heated seats are addictive. The drive is relaxing, and it might not be such with an old car, listening for every sound of failure or concentrating on double-clutching or wondering if that jerk behind me really sees that I'm stopping.

Just some thoughts. I like the idea, but make sure you're mentally prepared.

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Can you live without the real creature comforts that even the most basic new car offers? Radio, heat (as others have mentioned) and the "don't think about anything" driving style that comes with newer iron? I love my drive home because it's quiet and comfortable and I don't have to think about operating the car. On hot days, the A/C is like heaven, and in winter the heated seats are addictive. The drive is relaxing, and it might not be such with an old car, listening for every sound of failure or concentrating on double-clutching or wondering if that jerk behind me really sees that I'm stopping.</div></div>

Actually the reasons you cite as negatives are the very reasons I like to take my 39 chevy PU truck to breakfast. Driving country back roads at sun up in my old truck transports me back in time. Speaking of breakfast, This morning a young lady fell asleep while driving, jumped a high curb, spun through the diner parking area, skidded sideways just 3 feet from my truck and stopped in a big cloud of dust against the diner walk 4 feet from the window I was sitting by. No damages or injuries other than to her Honda. Dodged a bullet twice this AM......Bob

[trimacar]

Matt, I respect your "quiet drive" time, but think of all the positives of driving an old car every day. Your senses are alert. You can smell the smells of day to day life, and you can sometimes feel the temperature changes (one of my favorite things about driving an open 1910 Hupp, you can feel pockets of hotter and cooler air hitting your face). People will recognize you and wave, unlike when you are in a modern cocoon of a car. Memories of drives, and even having trouble is part of the fun. Fiddling with the car and fixing the little things. Every day you don't drive your old car is a day of enjoyment gone forever. Ok, that's enough philosophy! C'mon guys, let's get some bugs on the windshield, I hereby charter the BOTW Antique Car Society!! David Coco Winchester Va.

[Peter Gariepy]

Matt,

You make many good points. One that I found interesting is i am willing to let the car deteriorate over time. This may be blasphemy... but... it's just a car. They wear out, get dirty, break down, etc. Thats par for the course and I have no issue with it.

To others that argue I'm ruining a "historical item". BUNK! A historical item that is never seen or used is more ruined IMHO.

As to your drive home statement: I sit in front of a computer all day, with a phone close by. Dont forget the fax machines, printer, overhead projectors... and other sorts of other high-tech gadgetry. When i drive home i like the feel of wind, the sun on my face, the smell of gas, the tactile feel of mechanical steering, the squeeks and groans of an older car.

Dont get me wrong - I LOVE the conveniences of a modern car and use them all the time. This is just my little escape, my short commute to and from work.

Truth is, i love the little conversations at the grocery store, gas station or hardware store that inevitably pops up. It's fun to to talk about the car, and i love the interaction.

[Matt Harwood]

Don't get me wrong, I can't wait until I can drive the Buick to work every day--I'll probably drive it more often than the allroad once it's broken in. I love all that stuff, too. But sometimes that decompression chamber feeling (especially the A/C on hot days) is very pleasant. All things considered, though, I think that is the most minor of concerns--driving old cars is ALWAYS fun.

[tbirdman]

i drove my 12 Cadillac about three hors each day this weekend. Beautiful weather in Oregon, high of 60s. Even took it downtown Portland. I did get a little attention including people saying it was the msot beautiful car they had ever seen. Oviously they don't see too many old cars However in cold weather it stays in the garage. I had thought about buying a older car especially a resto rod to use for a daily commute. Yeah it won't drive like a new car (maybe that's a plus as previously stated) but you would be very unique.

Don't forget you'll have to change your wardrobe to match the car you are driving Can't be seen driving an old car in modern clothes.

[Bill Stoneberg]

So I must be different, I find it fairly stressful to drive any of my old cars to work. Stop and go traffic, bad visibility compared to my truck, and a manual transmission in one of them. Just much easier and more pleasant in the truck. But then I feel that way driving in most of the big cities in my old car.

But give me a back road and minimal traffic in my 47 and I am a happy camper.

[Guest]

Go for it. I drive 5 miles per day each way to and from work and then with normal pleasure driving my monthly total comes to approx 1,000 miles. With mechanical brakes and 7/55 air conditioning (seven windows and 55 mph) I wouldn't drive anything else. Next June will be 50 years with the same car. I think the only problem is the guy who passes you and pulls right in front and slows down. However defensive driving goes a long way. 49 yrs 4 mths and 391,000 miles of plesure.

[bubba]

Back in the 1970's I drove my 1941 Olds 68 Club Coupe to college which was about 35 miles round trip. The car wasn't in great shape up close but I had the engine redone so it ran fine and always started up. In the days before SUVs, I was the tallest car on the road and I could see over all the cars in front of me and I could locate it instantly in a parking lot. The car always got attention especially when I opened the hood and showed my friends the straight eight. None of them had ever heard of a straight eight and here was one in the flesh or should I say "cast iron".

I wouldn't do that today because where I live is now very congested but if I was in a rural area I would be driving my cars all the time. My vote is yes!

[keiser31]

My car is no Model A (stock 1931 Dodge coupe), but I was driving it every day as my driver for a few years before the clutch went away. As soon as I get the new clutch in I will be driving it every day again. The old cars don't do me much good just to look at. I just want to use them as they were meant to be used. If you can't enjoy the feel and the fun and the fright of driving an old car all of the time, why have it? On the other hand, if you just like to show what you or your money are capable of and are afraid of scratches or attention, enjoy your "trailer queen" and only display it at shows. I know all you Packard and Auburn guys are gasping, "drive it every day...are you kidding??" I understand. You have spent a lot of time and money on the car. You do not want to have to fix scratches or chips and maybe not win the 1st place trophy. Well...in that case I say "Get a Model A" and be brave."

[keiser31]

Just a little story about a guy and his car...a friend of mine in southern California had this dream. He saw a car when he was a boy that really drew his attention. It was a 1931 Chrysler CD8 roadster with all of the bells and whistles. My friend dogged the car and owner religiously. He wanted that car! Well, one day when my friend was all grown up (he chased this car for most of his life), the car's owner passed away. The widow finally gave in to my friend's wishes and sold him the car. My friend did a full body off restoration. It was immaculate right down to every nut and bolt. I am certain the car won every award that the AACA could conjure up and the car is even featured on many calendars. Now, you would think that after all of the stalking and keeping track of the car would make him want to actually DRIVE the car. The car was finished in the mid 1970s, I believe and it now has 4 miles on it. 4 MILES!!! Those miles were chalked up by driving the car on and off a trailer. O.K....he did not want to scratch it and have to re-restore it, but isn't part of the dream to experience the car and not just say "thank you" and accept a trophy? My friend is very old now and will probably never experience the joy he looked forward to most of his life....driving and enjoying that fine ride.

[Guest Hinckley]

A man of my own heart! I have been in search of a Model A for use as the primary driver for a few years now. The primary obstacle is that I am picky and am on a tight budget.

I have my sight set on acquisition of a 1931 pick up truck, the steel cab. My driving habits are about 20 to 30 miles a week, all in town with most of this on roads, including Route 66, where the speed limit is 35 and 40 miles per hour.

On occasion, two or three times a year we would use the truck to go camping. This would be a drive of twenty miles each way on a divided highway and nine miles on a dirt road that is in good enough shape for my station wagon.

Other uses would include the occasional trip to the hardware store. The only other applications would be photo assignments along Route 66, drives that never exceed 150 miles.

As to heat or ac that is no problem even though I too live in Arizona. I currently ride my bicycle to work summer and winter.

On a few of my drivers I have had a heater and really appreciate the defroster but ac in my world is still a futuuristic luxury. The current driver is a pretty nice, somewhat rare 1968 Dodge Adventurer.

In an ideal world I would find someone interested in a trade (I could up the ante by adding a 1988 Ford Crown Victoria station wagon with just over 100,000 original milea). I am not wanting a show piece, am not concerned about paint or rust with the exception of rust out, but would like something in decent mechanical condition. This would allow me to drive it while updating the truck to a restored condition.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DriveAG2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...I just smile and drive wherever and whenever I please... </div></div>

We did the same thing when we licensed the '74 Mercedes Benz 450SL we bought in May. We put a vanity plate on it with the car's name on it and we can take it out anytime we want. We just took <span style="font-style: italic">Woodstock</span> on it's first 100 mile roundtrip sightseeing drive.

[MCHinson]

DriveAG2,

Since I enforce NC laws, I have no personal experience with Virginia Laws, but I suspect that Virginia law would be similar to NC law on the subject.

A quick on-line search tells me that Virginia does not require an inspection on cars over 25 years of age as long as you consider it a collector's item. There is also a specific statute allowing Acetelyne Lamps on Antique vehicles and a statute exempting Antique Autos from the requirement for 2 brake lights. A quick review of the VA laws makes it look like you should not be having any trouble with inspection of Antique Autos in your state. You might want to take a look at the following VA statutes:

§ 46.2-1157. Requirement of inspection; well-drilling machinery, antique motor vehicle or antique trailer excepted.....

The provisions of this section shall not apply to any vehicle for transporting well-drilling machinery licensed under § 46.2-700 or to any antique motor vehicle or antique trailer as defined in § 46.2-100 and licensed pursuant to § 46.2-730.

§ 46.2-100. Definitions.

"Antique motor vehicle" means every motor vehicle, as defined in this section, which was actually manufactured or designated by the manufacturer as a model manufactured in a calendar year not less than 25 years prior to January 1 of each calendar year and is owned solely as a collector's item.

"Antique trailer" means every trailer or semitrailer, as defined in this section, that was actually manufactured or designated by the manufacturer as a model manufactured in a calendar year not less than 25 years prior to January 1 of each calendar year and is owned solely as a collector's item.

§ 46.2-1036. Acetylene lights on antique motor vehicles.

Antique motor vehicles as defined in § 46.2-100 may be equipped with acetylene headlights, taillights, and lights to illuminate their rear license plates as provided in regulations promulgated by the Superintendent.

§ 46.2-1014. Brake lights.

Every motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer, except an antique vehicle not originally equipped with a brake light, registered in the Commonwealth and operated on the highways in the Commonwealth shall be equipped with at least two brake lights of a type approved by the Superintendent. Such brake lights shall automatically exhibit a red or amber light plainly visible in clear weather from a distance of 500 feet to the rear of such vehicle when the brake is applied.

[Shop Rat]

Since we have not put regular plates on a car any older than the '74 I am not sure what goes on with them and inspections and what the laws are here.

[Guest Bob Call]

Back to the fuel pump. Sine the Model A was designed to operate with a gravity flow fuel system, tank above the carb, I would be afraid the the pressure of a fuel pump would sink the float and flood the carb.

Also, about the vaporization or evaporation of the lighter components of modern gasoline. Modern cars have closed fuel systems that are constantly under pressure so the vapor point of the lighter components are raised and in a closed system they don't escape, just condense back to liquid with added pressure or temp drop. Model A's have an open unpressurized fuel system else the gravity flow wouldn't work. So, in the open system you'll loose a portion of the lighter components but not enough to be a problem. Model A's have a low compression ratio of about 4.8 to 1 so they'll run on about any volatile liquid you can spray into the cylinder if the coil is hot enough to light the fire.

[Guest Hinckley]

I would agree that it is the other drivers on the road that present the largest obstacle in using an older vehicle as a daily driver. Long before they were collectible and for most of the past thirty five years vintage trucks have been my daily drivers.

When my wife and I were dating some 26 years ago I was working on a ranch near Chino Valley and on weekends drove into Kingman to see her, a drive of 125 miles each way. At that time I had a nice, original 1946 GMC. On occasion when we double dated we used a friends 1926 Ford.

Other drivers that had little value at the time include a 1942 Chevy, a dozen or so Advance Design era Chevies including a panel truck, a 1956 Ford truck, and a 1954 Dodge truck. The hands down number one problem were drivers cutting me off, crowding me or making sudden lane changes or turns without signals.

I now have a 1968 Dodge but must be honest, in spite of the problems associated with an older driver miss those days. The old Dodge is a great truck but it is just to new!

[jeff_a]

Peter,

I think the idea of driving a Model "A" to work as you described ( 6 miles each way, 35 mph ) is reasonable. I don't know if I'd be up for doing that every day, but for an old car design, an A is fairly "modern". No pedals for reverse, no demountable rims and rim-spreaders, and you can even get parts! I have a 1930 Model A Coupe and drove it some to high school and college, but neither of these was more than 2 miles each way.

If you're thinking of getting one, look at some different body styles, as some other posters said. There are two dozen body styles, not counting unusual ones like Station Wagons, Town Cars, 1 1/2 Ton Flatbeds and Telephone Service Trucks. I don't know the other types of A's very well, but the '28's and '29's are kind of different animals than the '30's and '31's (21" vs. 19" wheels, for instance). I think the '28 and '29 coupes have fixed seats, while the '30 and '31 coupes have a knob to adjust them fore and aft a little. In my opinion, the best thing about them for the modest but regular driving you're considering is that a <span style="font-weight: bold">major</span> portion of the parts are available as reproductions. Have you seen a Mike's Affordable A's catalogue lately? We're talkin' 400 pages! ----Jeff

[Guest elmo39]

Peter

i'm sure you have made your mind up by know, but for whatit's worth go for it , you only live once and should enjoy it while you can , before i retired i reguarly used my 54 DeSoto Diplomat (read Plymouth )to travel 6 miles each way to work for about 8 years ,i admit that it traveled a lot faster than a model A , but i also used my 37 Plymouth bodied chrysler at times . and also used both cars at times for Deer hunting and Duck hunting .one of my reasons for owning an old car is they were made to be driven and enjoyed, not wrapped up in cotton wool or poked in museums

[Guest rbl2]

What ^^^he^^^ said.

[james r. muggs]

i drove a 29 ford pick up to work for 10 years from 74 to 84. and a 29 2 door around town after i retired for 4 years 95 to 99. it was on the front page of the local paper 2 times. lots of fun and drew a lot of attention when i went to wallie-world.