Question on how antique auto restoration is learned?

[Guest LoveofClassics]

I am interested in learning how to restore classic and antique automobiles. I have been involved in the hobby all my life and was in an automotive tech program in high school but would like to take my knowledge to the next level. Unfortunately I do not know how to go about learning this craft.

I was enrolled in a classic car restoration program at the Ohio technical college that was canceled twice. I have called or visited restoration shops that are not interested in taking on an apprentice position. It seems the only way learn this art is from someone who knows it.

If anyone has any suggestions on how I would go about learning automotive restoration or knows of anyone interested in teaching someone who will offer free labor please let me know. I am locating in the NE Ohio/ Western PA area

Thank you

Edited October 1, 2009 by LoveofClassics (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Karl,

I agree it's tough to break into the business but it can be done. Most current shops will not take on an apprentice because there are enough talented well trained guys out there already.

It's also best to specialize. Being a talented body man should get you hired in most shops. You can demonstrate you rwork in photos, the more difficult and proper the repair the better.

For "overall" restoration jobs, that will be tougher.

[1937hd45]

Karl, I't no mystery, buy yourself a wreck and start working on it. They are being crushed daily. Make the welding mistakes on your own car don't expect anyone to pay you to learn on theirs.

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Karl, I't no mystery, buy yourself a wreck and start working on it. They are being crushed daily. Make the welding mistakes on your own car don't expect anyone to pay you to learn on theirs. </div></div>

Ditto that.

There are schools that will teach restoration, but there's really no substitute for experience.

I will say that if you are a skilled metalsmith, you can pretty much name your price and pick and choose which projects you want to work on. There are only a half-dozen or so guys out there who can make complex body panels from a flat sheet of steel using an English wheel and a hammer set. They're booked years out for astronomical prices and their work is always in demand from people who can afford it.

Of course, learning such skills takes a lot of time. In restoration, however, this is one of the most expensive things to do and the most difficult thing to find someone to do well (quality engine builders, painters and upholstery shops are much easier to find). This is exactly why there are so many collector cars out there full of plastic filler with wavy paint.

If you want to do overall restorations, I'd get a real job and just do them for yourself as a hobby. It's VERY hard to make a living at it unless you're at the top of the game. Some degree of high-quality specialization will let you get into the industry and still make a living at it.

But like 1937HD45 said, there's no way anyone will pay you until you can demonstrate that you can do the work. So get to work!

Good luck!

[DizzyDale]

Dear Matt,Most guys get the mudwork straight where they drop the ball is blocking the clear to make it flat.I see an awful lot of cars on the showfield with the infamous urethane wave,don't know if it's cause the technician couldn't be bothered to sand before buffing or maybe the customer didn't want to pay for what makes ALL the difference.diz

[Matt Harwood]

I totally agree, Dale. The difference between adequate and amazing in the paintwork is nothing more than spending A LOT of time block sanding that body to get it perfect. For $399.99, you probably aren't going to get someone willing to invest 40 hours making it laser-straight.

But even this takes some skill that is learned. All it takes is practice, practice, practice!

[Jay Wolf]

We do not teach Auto Restoration here at Vincennes University.

We do have several students who want to pursue auto restoration and/or customization who attend.

Several students take both our Auto Servicing and our Auto Body programs. Some will even pickup an upholstery class or two.

We have the options of:

Just taking one or two classes thet feel they are weak in.

one year certificates

2 year AS degrees

4 year BS degrees.

So you might check your local Junior College or 4 year college. In most cases you will get more hands on at the junior college.

If you are thinking of a business, don't forget the business classes. You can be the best restorer in the world but if your $$ don't line up your won't have a successful business.

[jeff_a]

If you are interested in taking classes, you could consider the degree program at McPherson College, McPherson, Kansas. I believe they have a four-year program in antique auto restoration. They have a good reputation, and have been offering the program over 20 years.

For just one to five days of classes, you could go to the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin, Alberta. These are listed on their website. One class is in bodywork, one in paint, one in overall restoration strategy, one in detailing and minor maintenance, and one in auto woodwork. They have these classes in late February every year.

I took all five of the R-A-M classes in 2007 and thought they were worthwhile. The R-A-M is a transportation museum built by the Province of Alberta in 1993. It includes an aviation department w/ 77 planes; about a thoasand pieces of ag equipment; and the largest auto collection in Canada ( 360 cars & trucks ), to my knowledge.

----Jeff

[Guest BJM]

Jeff brings up a good point. I think our Buick Club of America Bugle magazine editor Pete Phillips trained at McPherson, I cmight be wrong, but he knows his stuff. I know McPherson is well thought of and the focus is on Auto Restoration, not cheap but then graduates should be able to get their foot in the door for a shop, based on McPherson's reputation.

I'm nearly 44, or else I would go to McPherson, if I was 18 to 25ish I would, it would be a good investment if that is TRULY what you want to do.

Trying to get body work training at a local community college they will NOT teach rust repair.

[R Walling]

I agree with 1937hd45, when he said to buy your own car and make mistakes at your own expense.

Skills are more acquired than learned. When you run into a problem, ask others about the details and then go and practice. Join a local club for support on the particular car that you are working on.

Details are the most important thing in restoration. Consult on-line with pictures and observe the differences for each individual part.

Workmanship will improve as you make mistakes and correct them.

I once bought a TIG welder without knowing which side faces the wall. After practicing and failing to do a certain weld, I hired a welder to come in and do it for me. I watched him like a hawk and soon I was comfortable with doing it myself.

Confidence and perseverance are the most important aspects in learning.

[Paul Dobbin]

Karl,

Your question is really open ended. What kind of restoration do you want to learn? Pebble Beach Concourse?

Shopping Center Car Show? Make a living at it? Or just to restore your own stuff?

All the answers given tended to lean toward making a living at it. If that's your intention, go to the schools listed, or start with a broom and get a job as a shop helper and pay attention.

If it's to learn to do your own for the joy of doing our own restorations, join a local club and find the few guys that do everything themselves and become their shop helper for free. You will learn a lot.

People who know how to do things are usuallly willing to share that with real interested learners. If they think you want them to do your restoration, they probably don't want you around. But ASK, our hobby is a great give and take community of people with a common interest. The skilled guys know each other and generally shy away from the "check book restorers". But, everybody can use an extra set of hands sometime.

Good luck

[Guest Skyking]

I think alot of the answers lie in the certain individual. It takes a well skilled person to become a good body & paint man. Some people can't learn this, it has to be in them. I remember my younger brother who was in the trade and would run his hand along panels to feel if they were straight. He could pick up on the slightest wave just by the feel, where others couldn't. He'd get his hammer & dollies out and do magic on that metal, and very seldom use filler. If he did, it was enough to fill a thimble. He was self taught, and I always was after him to start some kind of shop to teach the trade, but the years went by and he got into other projects and I feel he wasted alot of his talents.

[Terry Bond]

There are a lot of potential answers to the question as you've already noticed.

I think the skills are pretty much basic. Bodywork, paint, mechanical, etc all need to be in place, so vocational training would be a good foundation. Once you get the basic skills in place, then you can specialize in the area of your interest. Im sure any good restoration shop would be interested in a "skilled" apprentice to work as a helper-maybe even as an unpaid intern for a while just to learn some of the special skills needed to restore certain vehicles. A college like McPhearson will give you two directions - first of course is basic restoration. That would inlcude the hands-on work. Another choice would be more restoration-management, that is managing the process of restoration including scheduling, research, and generally oriented towards the "business" of restoration.

[A by the sea]

Real restoration is a passion. You must have the inner will to push yourself. You must push yourself on several fronts. Doing a car is a major undertaking that can easily overwhelm you in time and money. You must push yourself in learning. To many guys are just putzing around with the cars and do not take the time to understand what they are doing. From the body work where you must understand how metal moves in order to shape it. From the mechanical side you need to understand how the manufacturer actually engineered the car and you must understand how to return the car back to the original tolerances. Anything less is just slapping a car together and making the paint look pretty. A truly restored car will look beautiful and drive like it was new. How many guys with cars are afraid to drive their cars over 40 MPH?

Keeping an open mind and questioning everything you are told is how you learn. It is too easy to listen to some old timer tell you to do something one way. Ask why and then look it up and make sure it makes sense. There is too much bad information being passed by word of mouth. I had a lot of trouble leveling metal after welding at first. I was told you always shrink the oil cans by 'pros'. Once I learn about metal I found out the oil can was caused by metal shrinkage during the welding. The proper fix was to stretch the metal. I can go on with the bad info. I say you need to keep an open mind because I run across so many who will not even consider trying new methods. I think their end quality suffers as a result. So many modern better ways of doing work. Of course, some of the old time tested techniques need to be learned also. I use tools in my home shop that span a century. You will find tools that are 100 years old right next to brand new tools and all being used.

How to learn. Easy the internet, books and doing. Go find an old fender (ok pre 80's) with dents and try to fix it.

Here is a link to some of how I taught myself how to metal work:

My metal working thoughts.

Have fun.

[Dynaflash8]

Speaking from experience, nothing beats a college education, something I didn't persue. You can get an old car and try to restore it, but what you might think is good, a true restorer might well call it a "fixup" at best. I know a fellow who did have the opportunity to apprentice in a restoration shop. Now he's a fabulous painter, and is making big money at a Chevy dealership, and doing bodywork and painting restoration work on the side.

But, there's more to it than that. There's nothing like your own business, and with that comes a lot of tax work, paper work, unemployment and injury insurance and all of that. A college education at McPherson would prepare you for all aspects of the restoration business. If you can afford to go to Kansas, take the time now and further your education by going to McPherson.

[R W Burgess]

To add to Earl's critique, get your education while you're young. You're like a sponge as a youngster, like a sieve when older.

Us older folks can still learn, but, by gosh, it takes a lot of concentration, and an occasional admittance to oneself, that you're not the smartest person in the world anymore!

<span style="font-weight: bold">"Anymore" was added for the benefit of our kids and grandchildren who know "EVERYTHING"! </span>

Wayne

[poci1957]

Hello Karl, I am a graduate of the McPherson College program. Theirs is a 4 year program aimed primarily at college age students BUT they offer Restoration Workshops between semesters which might be great for you. Take a look at mcpherson.edu and click on the Institute page, it looks like they are planning 2 one week programs in June. They have room and board where you would get a dorm room and eat in the school cafeteria while you are there (if it is like it was when I was there, the summer schedule may be different). At that time these week long classes were aimed at retirees and they were lots of fun for the participants.

Of course like anything this will only be an opening to lots of practice on your own to develop your skills, but such a class may be just what you are after. McPherson is 50 miles north of Wichita, a pleasant town of 12,000 people and the Restoration Program now encompasses about 20% of all activity at the school. Good luck, Todd C

[Guest LoveofClassics]

Thanks for the great advice everyone. I have found the comments informative and have enjoyed reading the references websites.

I should have mentioned that I have already have been to college and got an economics degree from a private school in the Cleveland area (Baldwin Wallace) After high school I didn't know how serious my passion for antiques cars was so I just ignored it and went to school. I am 25 now and have done pretty well in other areas but am not happy and would like to follow my passion for cars. Going to another 4 year is not a very reasonable option now (still paying student loans).

Self teaching is probably my best/only option. I have a toasted 67 Buick wildcat conv I have apart and a pretty decent 66 satellite to practice on. I just bought some books on amazon and have been pricing the tools on eastwood. Pretty expensive to get started in but as one of the guys on the metalworking website said I should probably just start with a hammer/dolly set and a dented fender.

[Guest LoveofClassics]

I will have to check on those summer classes McPherson College has. The OTC had a 1 1/2 program going part time but it never happened. Going for a couple weeks in the summer sounds like a good alternative.

Thanks

[Chris Paulsen]

Hi all,

I am one of the instructors here at McPherson College. I/we very much appreciate all of the comments so far. If there are any questions I can answer about our summer institute classes or the program in general, please feel free to contact me.

Thank you,

Chris Paulsen

paulsenc@mcpherson.edu

(620)242-0569

[poci1957]

Hello Chris, just to enlighten me, a graduate of the old 2 year program, what is the current situation for someone like Karl for 2 years? Has the program transitioned completely to a 4 year program as I have heard? Todd Crews, Class of 1987

[Chris Paulsen]

The Restoration program is entirely a four-year program. Restoration students all take the same core of restoration classes, then choose an emphasis from the following: Technology, Management, History, Communication, or Art & Design. This gives all students a complete mix of restoration classes, general ed. classes, and other classes depending on their major.

We accept quite a few non-traditional students with previous degrees or credits. Often this previous education shortens their time at McPherson to 2 or 3 years.

I hope this helps,

Chris