cylinder head

[OLDMAN]

I need a cylinder head for my 1922 Oldsmobile 43A. Same as 1920, 1921, 1923 model 43A Odsmobiles.

[nickelroadster]

This might be a little difficult as chevy used basically the same engine but the Olds has a three port head whereas the chevy used a two port one.   Three ports were desireable. People also used these to put overhead valves on Model Ts.  What is wrong with the head that you have?  If it is cracked you could get it repaired.

[OLDMAN]

Hi nickelroaster,

   Thank you for your post. you are correct that Olds has a three port head and Chevy used a two port head.

Olds Model 43A has the same basic engine as Chevy for the following Chevrolet Models:

1920 Model 490 & FB, 1921 Model 490 Baby Grand, 1922 Model FB, 1923 4 cyl, 1924 4 cyl all models.

The head is cracked. There is only one shop near me that does repairs, but they are not highly recommended. 

I was told that they are "hit and miss". If I can't find a head in a few months, I may take a chance that they can fix the head. 

I do not want to send the head to a shop in another state and hope they might be able to fix it.  

[Friartuck]

Superweld in Long Island New York has performed repairs for many problem cracks in blocks and heads:

 

https://www.yellowpages.com/farmingdale-ny/mip/superweld-co-inc-13002066

[OLDMAN]

Hi Friartuck,

   Thank you very much for this information.

[edinmass]

I have had a crack in a similar Olds head repaired. Do NOT weld that head. Have it stiched by an expert, no some local machine shop that does it once a year. I have used the same master craftsman for more than thirty years, he is in his seventies, and only does cast iron stiching, he makes all his own screws, ties, and locks. He is in Massachusetts, an easy ship to location. If you want his info PM me and I'll send it to you. If you weld that head it will be junk, and you won't have any options...............

Edited August 20, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

A properly done weld by an experienced cast iron welder is the best way to go. Years ago we had a 1928 Autocar exhaust manifold that was broken into 2 pieces. A shop in Long Island welded it and ground the welds until they were invisible.  The manifold is still on the truck. 

[OLDMAN]

Thank you so much for your post!

[edinmass]

Heating that head and welding it correctly will require remachineing the head flat, if it can be done. I have worked on an identical head and the castings on this particular piece is rather poor. An exhaust manifold failure after the fact can still be dealt with, this head won’t be salavagable if there is a welding problem. I often work on cars that are absolutely priceless, and reguardless of cost or value stiching is always the first best option. They pressure test the repair to 40 lbs, even though the system is open to the atmosphere. I had a V-16 late model block repaired with 75 inches of total cracks, and twenty years later it’s still fine. If this head goes bad, he will probably have to buy a car to find a head, we looked for five years on our 1922 and didn’t come up with anything, and I’m pretty good at finding difficult parts. If the stitch repair fails, which I would bet a years pay it won’t, you could still weld it. I only know of one person I trust to weld cast iron, a third generation cast iron only shop, and I would still stitch it first. Everyone has their own opinions, and Restorer32 is a talented, experienced, and respected gentleman in the hobby, I respectfully disagree with him on this one. 

[1912Staver]

At work I have seen quite a few serious casting cracks. Medium speed Marine Diesel's, 10 X or more the size of transport truck engines. The cracks are always stitched.  Mostly heads however a few crankcase repairs after catastrophic piston failures.  About a 99% success rate. These engines are worth millions and stitching is the approved{ Lloyd's, ABS etc.}  repair method.

Greg in Canada

Edited August 16, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

I felt a twinge of embarrassment as I have never heard of stitching.  I just read about it and saw some video.  What a great process.  We have welded some blocks, etc. in the past on early cars (with some great results and some not so great!) but this process seems to be a more fail safe system them welding. Thanks for the education Mr. Minnie!

[Restorer32]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Heating that head and welding it correctly will require remachineing the head flat, if it can be done. I have worked on an identical head and the castings on this particular piece is rather poor. An exhaust manifold failure after the fact can still be dealt with, this head won’t be salavagable if there is a welding problem. I often work on cars that are absolutely priceless, and reguardless of cost or value stiching is always the first best option. They pressure test the repair to 40 lbs, even though the system is open to the atmosphere. I had a V-16 late model block repaired with 75 inches of total cracks, and twenty years later it’s still fine. If this head goes bad, he will probably have to buy a car to find a head, we looked for five years on our 1922 and didn’t come up with anything, and I’m pretty good at finding difficult parts. If the stitch repair fails, which I would bet a years pay it won’t, you could still weld it. I only know of one person I trust to weld cast iron, a third generation cast iron only shop, and I would still stitch it first. Everyone has their own opinions, and Restorer32 is a talented, experienced, and respected gentleman in the hobby, I respectfully disagree with him on this one. 

 

Actually on most of the engines we work on we have cracks stitched here locally. Never a failure. I was just pointing out that properly welded repairs are fine too if that's the way you want to go. Stitching is indeed less expensive, generally faster and less "final". We just recently had a jug for an ALF engine stitched. We do always have them pressure tested. 

[edinmass]

hope the link works, a huge repair, done old school. Craftsmanship is ALMOST dead. If I were a teenager again, I would apprentice with my local stitch guy.......... its a more valuable skill than most college educations. 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-doBwALJ5Q

 

don't know how to correctly post the link.

 

 

[PFitz]

 

 

Is this the one, Ed ?

 

Paul

[OLDMAN]

Pfitz,

   Great video, very informative.

Thank you.

  Oldman

[PFitz]

Your welcome OM. Good luck with getting that head fixed. 

 

BTW, stitching cast iron blocks is an old, accepted repair process. I remember reading in an old Motors Manual about how it's done, way back when I was a kid in the 60's. They used tapered screws without the fancy snap-off hex heads or drill indexing jig, but otherwise the process was the same. Put in a row of tapered screws, grind 'em flush, then put in more screws in between those in the first row so that they all interlock. 

 

Paul

Edited August 17, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history)

[nickelroadster]

I would recommend the Lock-n-Stitch company in Turlock CA.  All the talk you hear about stitching is using the materials and techniques of this company.  They work on a lot of big marine diesels.  If you sent your head to them they would use the best method for your situation.  I had a 1915 Olds head (similar to your overhead valve but different engine) that was cracked in seven different places due to a faulty water pump repair (whole another story) and they repaired it six or seven years ago.  The repair was quite reasonably priced and I have put several thousand miles on the car.  They invented most of the techniques used to repair cast iron and sell the materials to almost anybody else that will do this kind of repair.

[mike6024]

Very informative website they have.

 

http://www.locknstitch.com/precision-metal-stitching.html

 

LOCK-N-STITCH Inc.'s proprietary, patented mechanical crack repair process "metal stitching" allows us to permanantly repair a crack or blow-out hole without welding. The cracked metal is replaced with special metal stitching pins that we install by drilling and tapping to draw the sides of the crack together. This results in a continuous row of interlocking stitching pins to create a strong, pressure-tight repair. To restore the casting to its original strength, we install locks across the joint line of the pins by drilling a precision hole pattern with special drill fixtures. After the hole pattern is created, the locks are driven in, pulling the repair togther even tighter.
The repaired, metal-stitched area is gas and liquid tight to create a pressure tight repair. In addition, metal stitching Dampens and Absorbs Compression Stresses. It also spreads tensile strains and distributes the load away from the original failure point, while maintaining the alignment of the original surfaces.
This metal stitching method is employed mostly on cast iron components, but it is also effective on any other machinable metal, such as ductile iron, steel, aluminum and bronze castings.

 

http://www.locknstitch.com/cast-iron-welding.html

 

Cast Iron Welding
We want to share some truths about cast iron welding with you. These truths are easy to understand, extremely important to know and yet, ironically, hardly known in the welding world.
About 40% of the casting repair work that we perform in our service department is performed by some type of welding procedure. Even though we are the world leader and only complete supplier of metal stitching supplies in the world, we are also the only company who will actually tell you the truth without bias. Some repairs require oven welding and some require metal stitching.
The most important thing for you to understand is that electric welding on cast iron is actually the very worst decision you could make to attempt to repair your cracked cast iron part. If you want to make a complete mess of your part, go ahead and arc weld it with nickel rod. Cast iron cannot stretch and withstand the contraction and hardening caused by cast welding with preheating below 1200 ° F. The brand of welding rod does not make a very big difference. It's the heat that causes the changes to the cast iron itself. Sure the nickel weld is machineable but the cast iron will become as hard as a drill bit or tap and therefore will prevent the proper machining that is often required. 50% of the casting repairs we see have been arc welded on with disastrous results often costing the owner at least twice as much to repair properly. Cast iron welding should not be attempted even by experienced welders without years of high temperature oven welding training. Cast iron requires preheat of at least 900 ° F. for brazing and 1300 ° F. for fusion welding.
If you want to know why and what the correct way is, read on.....

[edinmass]

Locknstitch is a brand name of a supplier of retail metal repair process. It’s a system I prefer not to use, for several reasons. Also, many  shops that use this process only use the product once or twice a year, that is exactly what you don’t want. Use someone who’s only business is stiching, they will give much better results. Understanding casting techniques is critical to a correct repair. I have seen talented people cut our a chunk of water jacket to get to an inside crack, then stitch the removed piece back in. My old timer works so fast it’s incredible. He will set up thirty or forty air drills and several air driven power tappers and go to town. After literally drilling a million holes in cast iron, you get pretty good at it. He makes his own screws and locks, and most importantly he sharpens his own drills in a way I have never seen before. I have been tempted to try and do a repair myself, but his work is so well done, and often times most of my castings are rare, I haven’t bothered to try. I brought him a 1914 Cadillac head a few years ago with several bad cracks that were welded and cracked next to the weld by someone else, he smiled and commented that he could fix it no problem, and what truly amazed me was although he didn’t know what the head fit his comment was......”I have done twenty five or thirty of those over the years” ........... another interesting detail, I have brought him castings and asked for a crack repair, and he says, what about the other cracks? While most time he can’t identify the block or head, having done this for fifty years, he knows where all the castings crack, including areas that you didn’t know were issues. He’s getting so old were worried no one else will take his place when he retires. I asked him how long it takes to become as skilled as he is.......his comment was eight to ten years..........Ed

Edited August 17, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Be forewarned, though, that there are some heads or blocks even the master that Ed references can't fix.

 

I know.  I own one.  1938 Packard Super 8 block, non repairable.  Cracks between valve seats. Ed brought it to his guy and after an hour of inspection he shook his head and said no way.  Poor metal and it had crystallized. 

 

Another block is going in car now, a good one.

 

Lucky me!

[edinmass]

Yes, Dave he couldn’t do anything for you, unfortunately no every piece can be saved. At least you got a straight answer. The was the first casting I ever brought him he couldn’t fix. When the entire block has bad metallurgy you have to move on. Fortunately it’s unique to that particular year Packard eight and not any of the others. 

[DavidMc]

I am skeptical of the "bad metallurgy" theory, cast iron corrodes but I am not aware of it crystallizing, it simply corrodes to the point where there is not enough metal remaining to be pinned or welded.   Maybe an expert can comment on that.

I had a problem with a 1920's Packard, it had cracked between a pair of valves, a previous owner had fitted hardened valve seats which left very little of the original cast iron block between the seats.  I had the crack pinned by an experienced person who does nothing else but pinning castings, he was not sure that there was enough of the block left to hold the pins, due to corrosion in the water way.

Having no alternative I got him to pin it despite his reservations.

The repaired crack started leaking within a few hundred miles of driving after the repair and by then cracks  between other valve insert seats started to appear.

There was nothing wrong metallurgically with the cast iron, there just wasn't enough of it left to hold the pins.

I doubt it could have been welded given that further cracks started appearing between other valve seats.

I got lucky when a fellow club member came to the rescue with a better block.   

As a result of this experience I would only use valve seat inserts where the valves are far enough apart so that the machining for the seats does not compromise the strength of the block.    

[lump]

Awesome video. Thanks for that. 

[edinmass]

409 freeze crack repaired without disassembly.

Edited August 18, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[trimacar]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:07 PM, edinmass said:

Yes, Dave he couldn’t do anything for you, unfortunately no every piece can be saved. At least you got a straight answer

I agree Ed, and I thank you for the help in getting that straight answer.

 

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 8:37 PM, DavidMc said:

I am skeptical of the "bad metallurgy" theory

I can understand that you're skeptical, but it's still a fact.  Something went wrong with 1938 Packard Super 8 engines when they were cast, and there is story after story of cracked blocks due not to corrosion, but to metal failure.

 

It doesn't happen with any regularity to 1937 nor 1939 blocks, nor does it happen to the V-12's.

 

My block could not be welded nor pinned, the metal had crystallized and just crumbled when a drill bit hit it.

 

I went on a search for a "good" 1938 block, and found some, but found exactly none that could be used as is.  Every block had cracking and the same metal problem.

 

I'm installing a good 1939 block on my 1938 bottom end.  The 1939 block is a direct bolt on change, the differences are internal (more cooling passages) on both the block and head..  The only other difference is a small water pump difference, again internal.  Thus, only the most expert of Packard guys will be able to tell it's a 1939 block.

[edinmass]

Having casting or metal fatigue issues for a short time in production has been a common problem in the industry for years. Back in the 1980’s Chevy trucks with the small block V-8’s that were cast in Mexico only had problems. They had to replace thousands of engines, can’t remember if it was 1986 or 1988. Stromberg has a metallurgy problem and 1929 and early 1930. Stewart Warner fuel pumps also. (Both companies were owned by GM) I have also seen thinning of castings cause problems from people running only water with no corrosion protection. Recently a club member bought a engine from Southern California for his car to replace one ruined by freeze cracks. He had photos of a very nice engine on a pallet. I warned him buying very old motors from areas that never freeze can be risky due to the people just running plain water and leaving it in them for years. When the engine arrived it looked great from the outside. It was so rotted out internally they just ended up using it for internal spares. 

[mattsmetalstitch]

I can FIX it 

Matt’s Metal Stitch LLC

https://mattscastironrepair.com/
Cold Cast iron Repair and Block Stitching

Buffalo, Rochester, Erie Pa. and surrounding areas

mmscastrepair@gmail.com

Metal Stitching or Metal Locking, is a mechanical cold cast iron repair process that’s been in use for over 80 years. This is a cold process that can be used without interrupting the Integrity of the iron and can be done in a timely fashion often times without removal of other equipment or parts. Metal Stitching can be done on either small engine blocks or huge multi-ton presses basically anything that’s made out of cast iron can and should be metal stitched instead of welded or brazed. I have attached photos with examples of past metal stitching projects. With thousands of projects successfully completed rest assured that your project will be done correctly and in a timely cost effective manor. The company located in West Seneca NY with only two employees and little overhead to add additional cost, Your project will be number one priority from start to finish.

 

Email or Call Matt’s Metal Stitch and We’ll get you up and running as soon as possible.

Fully Licensed & Insured

[alsancle]

I'll vote for the stitch weld.    Matt,  how long have you been doing it?   We have the greatest stitch welder in the world in Massachusetts but I worry about what will happen when he retires.

[mattsmetalstitch]

I can FIX it 

Matt’s Metal Stitch LLC

https://mattscastironrepair.com/
Cold Cast iron Repair and Block Stitching

Buffalo, Rochester, Erie Pa. and surrounding areas

mmscastrepair@gmail.com

Metal Stitching or Metal Locking, is a mechanical cold cast iron repair process that’s been in use for over 80 years. This is a cold process that can be used without interrupting the Integrity of the iron and can be done in a timely fashion often times without removal of other equipment or parts. Metal Stitching can be done on either small engine blocks or huge multi-ton presses basically anything that’s made out of cast iron can and should be metal stitched instead of welded or brazed. I have attached photos with examples of past metal stitching projects. With thousands of projects successfully completed rest assured that your project will be done correctly and in a timely cost effective manor. The company located in West Seneca NY with only two employees and little overhead to add additional cost, Your project will be number one priority from start to finish.

 

Email or Call Matt’s Metal Stitch and We’ll get you up and running as soon as possible.

Fully Licensed & Insured

[mattsmetalstitch]

i have been a metal locker for the better part of 15 years i recently started my own business because i watched for years the smaller projects like your cylinder head would come into the shop and the people would either get turned away or it was just too expensive to have them fix it (huge overhead)....  If you like email me your info and pictures of the crack i'm sure We can figure something out.... thanks matt 

[DavidMc]

Trimacar,

Thanks or the information re the crystallized Packard engines,  there is always something to learn on this site.    

[edinmass]

Matt looks very talented and when my guy retires I am quite sure I will be working with him. There is just NO substitution for a craftsmen who does this full time. My guy also works from a very modest shop in his home. My  nephew just graduated from college and I recommended this to him as a possible career. He looked at me like I had two heads. Craftsmanship in the future will be a higher paying occupation than it has been in the past. Matt, thanks for posting. Ed

Edited August 19, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[mattsmetalstitch]

Thank you Ed and i definitely look forward to working with you in the future. 

[alsancle]

So Casey is your guy now? ?

[edinmass]

Frank Casey has been doing my stiching since the 1980’s. Great guy, very talented, and in my humble opinion he doesn’t charge enough for his work. Try and get something welded today by a skilled welder.......not some hack, and you will pass out when you get the bill. Stiching is the best repair, it took me a while to realize that heating cast iron is ALWAYS a very bad idea.

Edited August 20, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Matt, do you make your own screws and locks? Most of the old timers seem to like to make their own. 

[mattsmetalstitch]

i'm in the process of reworking the locks i use so they're not exactly like the originals and i'm going back to the 5 lug 7 lug pattern instead of 7 and 9 used today,  the locks are water jetted from a invar plate. the lacings (BOLTS) are a trade secret.

[edinmass]

Water jetting them is an interesting modern adaptation, lacings being a trade secret doesn’t surprise me. The ones Frank uses arn’t like anything I have seen available commercially. 

[mattsmetalstitch]

we used to have a press that stamped the locks till OSHA found it and made us cut in half with a torch as they watched... luckily over the 50+ years we used it nobody lost digits.....  the water jet works amazing perfect every time 

Edited August 20, 2018 by mattsmetalstitch (see edit history)

[mattsmetalstitch]

the trick to the lacing is to have each one cut into the next one so it "they" can never back out (like a half moon almost) I try and start at the ends of the crack and work to the middle so only the last one is a full lacing ( i call it a floater )