E-Bay Rant--Please, keep your nose to yourself!

[brad54]

"There are 41 people watching it. I don't know what it's worth, but I've had a ton of e-mails telling me how rare it is, and I don't want to short myself."

Okay, we've all been there. We're reading an auction description, and it's obvious the seller doesn't really know EXACTLY what he's got, but he's selling it anyway. Maybe the description is lacking, maybe he wrote something like "I've been told the Buicks had closed driveshafts, but this transmission has been changed to work with a regular drive shaft" or he's got it labeled poorly so instead of "Flat Head Edelbrock Heads" he's listed it under "Ford Heads"

Now, if you're not interested in buying the part, you might be thinking to yourself "Hey, I'll click on "E-mail seller" just to let him know what it is." Deep down inside, what you're really thinking is "Hey, I'll click on "e-mail seller" and walk in there like Big John Stud swingin' his (delete description)and show this total stranger that I know something about what he's selling. Because I'm an authority. I like to show total strangers how large and in charge I am, and I like it when they're impressed, and I like hearing them say 'Thank You!' for showing them."

If you ever find yourself in that position, go ahead and step back for a minute, mind your own business, and let the guy selling something he knows nothing about get a few bucks in his pocket and be happy, and let some other guy get a great deal. There's nothing wrong with letting the free market work. There's nothing wrong with letting someone (another total stranger) get a good deal. Heck, let it happen and then think to yourself after the auction is over "Damn, that guy got a really good deal" when you see what someone bought it for.

I've had self-important know-it-alls blow a '56 Buick 3spd trans auction, a Nailhead adjustable rocker arm auction, and now a freakin' complete 2x4 engine with trans auction! All of them were being sold by guys who kinda sorta knew what they were, but didn't know Buick specifics. The trans and rocker arm auctions were stopped early because the buyer was told what they were, and went in to the file and ended the auction early because "the description was wrong" as per ebay rules. "That's a tailshaft from an Olds, and the Ansen shifter is really rare. That's a very rare and sought-after set-up you've got there." Honest to God, that's what the posted question/answer was! The 2x4 engine is going to be pulled for the same reason, as per his e-mail to me today. It's got a day left and is sitting at about $250, pick-up only. I'd freakin' drive to Jersey from Atlanta next weekend to pick up a complete 2x4 Nailhead with finned valve covers, all the linkage and 400 trans for under $500.

One of the guys who's blown the auctions is on this board pretty frequently, and he also hangs out at a Nailhead specific board, where I will also post. But I figure my experiences aren't the only ones, I'm sure it happens with more than just Nailhead stuff, so I thought I'd throw this up here to reminde us all to stop and think a bit, and ask ourselves "Why do I feel the need to tell a total stranger that what he's selling is worth more than he's asking--and thereby blow a great deal for some other enthusiast?"

-Brad

[Guest my3buicks]

I will disagree with you heartily - nothing is worse than a car or item that is misrepresented wether it be intentional or not. Unfortunately people buy stuff lets say for example an accessory that is said by the seller to be correct for 1967-1970 - well, the buyer buys it thinking that it is correct for his 67 and it's really only correct for the 68-70 - you then have an incorrect item in a car that snowballs into arguments at judged meets, others seeing it and thinking it's correct and adding it to their cars, the owner swears it's right. We as hobbyists have to step up and give some guidence where we can. I DO AND WILL CONTINUE TO CORRECT EBAY AUCTIONS anytime I see a glaring error or misrepresentation. I rather see the item go for what it's worth and be offered to ALL that need it, rather than have it sneak thru unseen so that 1 person gets a bargain on it. Usually, the person that get's the bargain, relists it correctly and makes the bucks. I also am quick to point out to people selling cars if they misrepresent something. I know lots of others that do the same as me, and hope they continue and hope this gets people thinking to do the RIGHT thing also.

Keith Bleakney

BCA# 11475

[old-tank]

I agree with Brad! The seller and the buyer should know what they are selling and buying. I think it is OK to ask questions and request more pictures, but NEVER give advise on the correctness of the item (for all of the reasons that Brad gave AND your advise may be WRONG)

Willie

[JohnD1956]

What a dilemna. I can see Keiths point, and Brads too. I would side with Brad though. There are so many items on e bay that are marked incorrectly and I would love to have a bunch of them. If the seller does not know what he has, chances are he doesn't care what he has. And if he did care he could post a reserve to ensure his prices received were acceptable. Without a reserve he is willing to accept what he gets and I say leave well enough alone so some of us with less resources can actually get a part we need at a reasonable price.

I think it is up to the purchaser to know what he is getting. Just last month I saw a set of incorrectly marked Electra Cornering lamps. Thankfully Keith helped me out pointing out they were close to my car but incorrect. So I just didn't bid. End of story.

Now if you really want to hear what makes me mad about e bay , it is the ability of people to use sniping services. I think this just sucks. If you are interested in an item, get on the machine and post your own damn bid. Losing good auctions to someone who plans to scalp you with their freaking machine really hurts. So much so I rarely look at or go to e bay anymore. We all know the rare parts. Auctions go for 6 days with no bids and then wham!!! there's 15 bids in the last 15 seconds. Just ticks me off..

Sorry for the rant, but if nothing else, I feel better. Thanks

JD

[Guest Duanesk]

Obviously if you have an auction that has 41 watchers you better believe there's going to be some action before the auction is over (correct description or not!!). So why not correct the listing so that a less informed buyer gets the correct part he's looking for. Some guy just listed a 1950 Buick as a 1949, he corrected the listing and it still didn't sell (Item number: 4608761987). What's the big deal. As for JD, you must have appreciated Keith's advice or you could have a pair of incorrect Electra cornering lamps sitting in your garage right now (but you don't think the seller should be informed??).

Duane

1946 Buick 56C

1971 Chevy C10

[Oxnard Montalvo]

There's something to be said about "minding your own business."

[brad54]

If it's listed INCORRECTLY--as in "Nailhead Rocker Shaft Assemblies" when they're really Oldsmobile rocker shafts, then yeah, point it out to the guy.

But if it's a hard-to-find part, and he simply didn't list it to his advantage, why be a busy-body?

Some points to consider in that instance: Yeah, you may be doing the seller (a stranger to you) a favor by getting more money in his pocket, but you're shafting the buyer by taking more money out of his pocket--money he could spend on his car. Or a nice dinner, or toilet paper. Who cares what he spends it on? It's his money, and it's none of your business what he spends his money on--or how much he spends.

Now, put yourself in those shoes at a swap meet: You see a part you've been searching for, and it's marked really, really low. Maybe the guy deals in Ford parts, but he has a wood grained steering wheel. You come in, are looking it over, the seller is standing there, and a third guy comes up and says "Man, do you know what you have there?! Those are worth at least three times what you're asking." So the seller takes it back and tells you "It's not for sale anymore."

You're reaction is NOT going to be saying "Yeah, you're right. I was really about to put the screws to him--thanks for keeping me honest. (then, turning to the seller) He's right. Lots of guys are looking for those. Quadruple that price--more than likely, you'll sell it before lunch."

OR, say that third guy didn't show up: You see a part at a great deal, waaaay under the "going rate." Are you going to walk up and tell the guy "Hey, you're only asking $40 for this, but they usually sell for around $250. Here's $250--have a nice day." No, you're going to snatch it up and tell all your buddies what a great deal you found.

What are you going to do when you see a 2x4 air cleaner assembly at a garage sale, with $3 on a little green sticker?

And why are people so concerned with someone "getting a fair price" but someone getting "a really good deal" means they ripped him off? If it doesn't affect you, mind your own business.

-Brad

Oh, and for what it's worth, I've followed auctions that ended early for adjustable rockers, the '56 manual trans with Ansen shifter that would have kept my '54 Buick all Buick, and the 2x4 Nailhead there now. Yeah, even with 41 people watching it, most of them won't be bidders. And even if they do start bidding, they wouldn't have had a running start like there would have been if it'd been listed properly by someone who didn't get it from "a farm clean-out." It was in some old man's shed forever, and is being sold by someone who simply figured "hey, this old Buick engine is probably worth something. It's got two carburetors on it."

-Brad

[Coley]

I list a lot of Chevy parts and know enough about them and have the books to looke them up that I don't have a problem. The trouble comes when I buy other brands of parts that i am not sure what they fit or the year. I very much welcome someone that knows what I have emailing me to tell me how to correctly describe the parts.

I also learned a long time ago that if I put part bumbers and good pictures with the item listing that the parts will bring what they are worth. I never pull and auction to bump up the price. Most of my auctions start a $9.95 and some have gone over that by hundreds of dollars.

I welcome the information and may add it to the auction.....

PS Some info is not correct either but most is....

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

The Chevy dealer is trying to tell u something. THe world is full of buyers AND/OR sellers!!!! A mis-represented item that is very rare is NOT necessarily popular nor necessarily commands a high price. This is true in ANY market.

Most likely, those that u are accusing of wanting to impress someone with their brilliance is not trying to do that at all. RATHER they are someone (probably a dealer) that ALREADY has a shelf full of such items and wants to keep the price UP!!!! The dealers do NOT want to see someone get a bargain somewhere else because THEY want to sell THIER stock. OR, to put it another way, If u can not get the bargain abroad THEN u will have to go to the dealer. A kind of rudimentary price fixxing if u will without any associated collusion. Just try to sell an extremely rare item to someone that already has a shelf full of them.

[riv2x4]

JD, sorry but I have to disgaree strongly with you about sniping. I snipe sometimes. If you put in your highest bid whenever, and it is the highest bid, you will be the winner. If I bid higher with 5 seconds left I still bid higher. You could be the high bidder for almost 10 days or maybe 5 seconds, that is just the way ebay works. I suspect my account and have seen others complain that their bids are being followed. Yes it can happen. JD, what is your solution to sniping?

Larry

[ksparks]

Pro ........with ebay there much more on the market available.........Con......we are over paying for often misrepresented junk.

[Guest BJM]

I think Brad and Keith's issues are totally different. Brad is saying that if a seller puts a 2x4 motor on ebay because his Dad had it and he knows nothing about cars but just wants to get rid of it - then he lists it for $1.00 and no reserve.

Keith is saying that you should correct or lend guidance to an auction that is misquoted or misrepresented, which I have done.

I have sold 2 RARE parts in my lifetime that I knew not much about and both parties got bargains that I wish I could have back. One was a PERFECT 2x4 air cleaner off a 65 Riviera. I can not remember the forum I used to advertise (maybe the Buick Bombsight website??) but I got 2 guys from the midwest, one I remember was using the moniker "Cat's Lair" and the other guy was out of Michigan, both were parts hoarders. Neither told me ahead of time that what I had was more desirable then what I was asking for it BUT I agreed to sell it to CAT's LAIR at a great low price, the other guy offered me double that, so I called CAT's LAIR and told him and CAT's LAIR said a deal's a deal you scumbag (to me) and threatened to haunt my days until I died.

I did sell it to the guy in Michigan and CAT"s LAIR told me he 15 of them already and was just hoarding parts. CAT's LAIR lied to me though by saying during the negotiations that that "air cleaner was all he needed to finish a restoration" when in fact he was a parts dealer as well. Is there a "Caveat Emptor" for sellers??

My other rare item was an original Olds dash pad mounted tachometer for a 66-67 442. I advertised it on 442.com for $40 thinking that was fair (not knowing but should have known) I got 2 more dealers posing as guys wanting to purchase to complete 'Grandpa's restoration' but in this case my price was what I wanted so I sold to the first come first served guy for $40. The other guy said "Sh-- do you know what you have done? That'll be on ebay this weekend for $200!

Ouch. Oh well. What these experiences have taught me personally is to appreciate an old car for being an old car and not the "rare and limited accessories" you can get for it. Is it not true that you can buy a solid 64 Riviera project car for what it would cost for a 2x4 motor? The view from behind the wheel would be the same, visually no difference. And you might beat me in a street race but not by much and cruising speed would be the same.

[Guest Duanesk]

Brad, your second posting makes much more sense. I think everybody appreciates a great deal. If I were at a swap meet (or on ebay) and someone had a Corvette 427 tri-power intake for $50.00, I'd jump on it without telling him how rare it was (need it or not). But If I saw a typical 4 barrel intake for a sbc and the guy claimed it was for a bbc, I'd tell him. I know my Chevy's in and out and am new to the Buick's. I recently picked up a 1946 Buick 56C. It needs a few things and I appreciate anyone that would correct a seller weather on ebay or at a swap meet so that I would be certain to be getting the correct part for my particular year.

Duane

1946 Buick 56C

1971 Chevy C10

[Philippe Racicot]

I agree with Keith,

When I see something that is incorrectly listed, I'm tempted to tell it to the seller to avoid that people doesn't get what they expected... I mean, not every item is subject to a bidding war. There are many items that don't even get a bid and when they do, people who buy them are disappointed because both the seller and buyer didn't know enough about it and the seller might get trouble too if the buyer wants his money back... For example, I got a 66 tilt steering column on eBay that was supposed to fit both 65 and 66 full size Buicks according to the seller. I paid quite much for it and to have it shipped here and when it arrived, I realized that the 66 column was quite different from the 65... If somebody had informed the seller about it and the listing had been corrected, I wouldn't have paid for this thing and someone else who needed a 66 column would have gotten it for cheaper than what I paid... This would have been a winner/winner/winner situation but instead I lost money, the seller lost his positive feedback as he didn't want to refund me and the buyer who needed a 66 column lost the chance to get his part at a fair price! Only UPS won something in that deal as they did charge astronomic brockerage fees on this one...

About sniping, I also do it sometimes when I really want something and I think it's ok. I once received an email from somebody that was frustrated when I bought a NOS manual cornering light switch kit for a 65 Buick.

The guy had entered something like a 25$ higher bid for it and he expected to win it. At the end of the auction I bidded much more than that at the and the other bidder emailed me at the end of the auction as he was frustrated and acted like I had stolen something from him! He told me how much he wanted the part (but he didn't want to pay much for it) and asked me if my 65 Buick had cornering lights at least... In fact it didn't but I really wanted the part anyway!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Interesting discussion...we'll need a much bigger can to get the worms back in.

I agree with Brad in that if a part is rare, then it isn't helpful to anyone but the seller to inform them - if it is listed correctly, unless there is a "Buy it Now", bidding will determine the appropriate price. 3Jakes' 442 tach would have brought him more money had he listed it on eBay instead of another forum.

On the other hand, I must agree with the points that incorrect listings ought to be fixed. I'm not as active on eBay these days as I once was (due in part to, like Philippe, being burned on shipping whether by seller or UPS), but when I do go there and do a search, I want to find things for my cars. With 6 of them now of varying vintages, it's a real PITA to search and either bring up auctions that don't apply to these cars or to NOT bring up stuff that would apply because they are incorrectly listed. For instance, I really don't know much about my '29 yet...it would be easy for me to spend a bunch of money on stuff that won't be right or won't work on it if items aren't listed correctly. I've procured a few smaller items so far, and honestly can't be absolutely sure they are correct, but I'm hopeful.

Finally greed is a vice (a deadly sin in Christian context) and it turns a lot of people bad...like parts hoarders or the rude folks who won't answer questions or take a few more photos because it might expose flaws in what they are selling. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was honest and open? At least then, there would be fair market value. If you have a rare car or a car with rare options (say 2x4 Nailhead), you have to recognize that things are going to cost more. Supply and demand dictates that.

I wish it were a perfect world. Reality is that corrections can be made to incorrect listings without drawing attention to the gem that an item may be. It serves no purpose...but the description deserves to be correct.

[JohnD1956]

Duane, you may be right in my instance. I see the cornering lights were posted again to E bay, still incorrectly described.

Larry, my solution to snipes is to leave an auction open as long as there is bidding. I don't know if the site can be programed to do so, but it would seem that the auctions could have a end date, and then be programed to end when no additional bids have been entered for a set amount of minutes, like 10 minutes or so.

JD

[Guest sixpack2639]

JD, what you described is exactly how GSA auctions http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/ are run. They have a tentative end time. If a bid is placed within 10 minutes of the auction ending it is extended by 10 minutes. Therefore the auction only ends after 10 minutes of inactivity.

As for informing sellers of incorrect descriptions and sniping, I guess you could say i'm guilty of both.

I have, on occasion, contacted a seller after I see a part relisted because of no activity the first time it was listed for the wrong model year. Why not tell them they aren't reaching their target audience? I sure don't want to look through 20, 30, 40 model years worth of stuff to find things for my '51 because someone thought it was for a 40's or 60's model Buick but then maybe i'm just lazy.

As recently as last week there was a trunk emblem for '55 Buick listed as '51. I contacted that seller and told him. Short and to the point.

I have never contacted a seller to tell them how "RARE" their part may be as I feel the same as others as in if they don't know what they have is rare why should I tell them. If it wasn't for FLEABAY they'd have probably thrown it away anyway so if they make a couple of bucks on a piece of junk (to them) junque (to us) the seller is happy and the buyer is extatic.

Sniping on the other hand is just a means to a preferred end. While I don't think the sniping software is right I do believe if you want it, have your behind at the computer at the end of the auction and do your own bidding. It just depends on weather you want it more than someone else.

I always have a set price i'm willing to pay for something and have had many occasions where I tried to snipe something only to be out bid because someone already had a higher max bid set. Therefore he wanted it more than me. I don't get mad about it I just keep looking.

Just my .02, Carl

[Guest unclefogey]

As a new Buick owner as of April, 2005 of a '41 Buick model 46, I joined the BCA and this website hoping that I could get the straight talk on technical issues and possibly information on the correct value of a needed item. I assumed we were all, as a brotherhood/sisterhood, in this endeavor of appreciating old cars and the trials and tribulations of keeping them running. At this point, I don't know if something is rarer than hen's teeth, or there are more of them than Carter's has Little (Liver) pills.

I do believe that any BCA member and website contributor would do everything possible to help someone with a technical question. But after reading the postings to this thread, I will be guided by the old "caveat emptor" when it comes to the marketplace.

I started reading this thread when it had 15 postings and after reading the first two "point/counterpoint" postings by Brad and Keith, I assumed Keith's position would be the hands down winner. WRONG! I suppose if you did a survey of individuals and asked them in the example of the garage sale green stickered $3.00 very rare air cleaner, whether they would identify with someone who bought it and got a great deal, or someone who told the seller they might want to rethink the price UPWARDS, most would identify with the former and not the latter. A sign of the times .

John

BCA# 41635

[riv2x4]

3 Jakes I find your attitude far more dishonest than Cat's Lair, someone I know, or the guy in Michigan. You advertised a part for sale, agreed to sell it to Cat's Lair and then changed your mind because you got a better offer and Cat's Lair already had the item. Did your ad state don't contact me if the part is worth more than I am asking or don't contact me if you already have one?

John, how is extending the auction going to save you money?

Larry

[Guest unclefogey]

Larry,

It will not save any me or anyone else any money. I was just looking at the main subject of this thread as an enthusiast who is part of what I think or thought is a group of individuals dedicated to the common cause of improving and keeping their cars running. As part of this group, I am willing to pay a fair price (seems that the word fair is getting a bad name) for something I might need. That's all.

There are others who believe that a fair price is one at which something can be purchased from some rube who doesn't have a clue as to its real value. Such a price which will allow the reselling of the item at a handsome profit. I didn't believe that those who belong to the BCA and contribute to this forum were advocates of the latter. Yup, I just got off the turnip truck.

To me, an auction, all auctions, are like the Lions Club auction in the summer where everything is out in the open and the auctioneer is heard to say many times, "This is a rare item". I am learning through this forum that nothing could be further from the truth. It is amazing to me, with all of this foreign language such as sniping, that I was ever able to buy anything off of ebay for my '41. Must have been stuff that nobody else wanted.

Oh, by the way, I got an email message this morning, supposedly from ebay, which was an attempt at phishing my financial information. I feel that I have arrived in this brave new world. Someone must have thought that I had just fallen off the turnip truck .

John

BCA# 41635

[Budd]

Information is power. Which is worse, hording the information, or hording the parts? I regularly correct mis-represented auctions (clearly its a '55 part, not a '56 for example), and I respond to those that say "does anyone know what this is". I do not, however, inject opinion into auctions that I see something rare or worth listing, but poorly or vaguely described. Some days you pay through the nose for a part, some days you don't. I've even "helped" some folks where are parting out a particular car, by telling them to forget trying to sell the bumper (for example), no one will pay the shipping on a common item that is so heavy and large, but they WILL pay good money for those small J bars or the bumperettes attached to it. Seller ends up happy (they make some money when otherwise they wouldn't), buyers are happy because they get some rare pieces for their car, and it was saved from the scrap heap.

As for sniping-- well, we could all go back to typewriters and telegraphs, but I think most of us will stick with our efficient computers. They just so happen to be good at executing a command at a pre-determined time. I can do it, or the computer can do it just the same, end result being a bid on an auction.

I do agree with the mention above to modify eBay to follow the GSA rule. That will negate the sniping effect, and relegate it back to a conveniance versus the apparent advantage it has over some.

Budd

[K8096]

There is a 1932 Buick 90 series taillight on e bay right now. E bay # 4609167260, no, it's not my auction. The problem is that it's not listed as a 1932 or as a 90 series. Should someone e mail the seller & tell him what it really is? I thought this would be an interesting topic here given the subject of this thread. I'm not a Buick guy, so I'll leave it up to you guys if you want to inform the seller or not.

[Coley]

I agree. I go to 2 0r 3 auctions a week to find ityems just to put on ebay.

When I find a gold glass rearview mirror, new in the box and an old household sale. I grab it for 5.00 or 10.00. I sure dont't tell the auctioneer that it is a rare find and should go sky high.

That is all ebay is, just a big auction.

One note about hording...sometimes the parts you think are going to be rare and high priced are going to be made in Taiwan because no one can find any.

Also, try manufacturing a part that is hard to find. Once you put it on the market, you will sell a few but not like you thought they would sell. Come to find out, people that need them now know they are available so they look for the next harder to find part because they know they can always get the others from you. Sorry about thre length....

[JohnD1956]

I did not intend to imply that extending auctions would save any money. All I 'm saying is give people a chance at the end of the auction to make their bid. That is a completely separate thought than the issue of advising someone the part they are selling is rare and should be selling for more. It is also a separate idea than advising a seller an item as advertised is described incorrectly, which I now think is the right thing to do.

My original rant was that sniping was unfair. I feel that the use of sniping services block others from getting last second bids in. But I don't hold any ideas or notions that my gripe would result in reduction of those sniping. I choose instead to avoid the market as a regular part of my parts search. I guess that is keeping the prices lower for everone else.

JD

[Jim Bollman]

Not into Buicks but it is an interesting thread. Put me in the camp that will sometimes send corrections to an eBay seller when an item is mislabeled. I never make any attempt at giving them extra info to help get higher prices etc. I did give such advice at a flea market a few years ago I was looking over a load of parts a fellow that I knew had a part marked $10, I told him $100 would still be a good price. He marked up the part and didn't sell it and later made comments that I didn't know what I was talking about. I would have been better of giving him the $10. I could have sold it a dozen times since for $200 or more. Oh well, live and learn.

I use to hate snipers to, When you own an auction all week you have the part already in your hands in your mind. I now just throw in my best offer and if I get it find if not fine. I sometimes do it on the first day of the auction and sometimes in the last minute.

[Guest my3buicks]

you NEVER own an auction until it is DONE. I snipe regulary, but my rearend is sitting there at the end to do the sniping, I don't believe in the automated programs for sniping. An auction is the most you are willing to pay, so wether you make your bid with 7 days to go, 7 minutes to go, or 7 seconds to go, you put out what you are willing to pay for it.

[brad54]

I do think letting a guy know the auction is labeled wrong doesn't really matter one way or the other. The thing about someone buying a part that's wrong or mislabled...I dunno how I feel about Automotive Darwinism. I don't buy ANYTHING for my car from a stranger unless I'm DANG SURE it's going to fit and be correct. It's my responsibility to verify the numbers, the application, the bolt pattern, whatever. Anyone here ever bought wheels from a swap meet? I can't begin to count the number of guys I've known who bought a set of wheels for their car based solely on the seller saying "Yeah, those are a 4-on-4.5 or 4-on-5 or..." bolt pattern, only to find out they're a Ford pattern and can't be used on his Chevy (or Chevy/Mopar, or...) Now there's a good chance the guy selling them got them in trade a while back and really thought they were something different, he measured them wrong, he mistook them for another set he had last year that WERE the proper bolt pattern, etc. But I gotta tell you, if someone I know is shelling out $300 for a set of wheels, and they don't have the smarts to find a tape measure (ask around at a swap meet; someone's got one)--or better yet, buy a lug space gauge and bring it with them--I don't have a ton of sympathy for them.

There is absolutely ZERO shortage of resources available to us that we can use to research parts--original literature, modern books, interchange manuals, vintage MOTORS Manuals, factory shop manuals, parts numbers books, and certainly most valuable--web sites. I've posted questions for part number help here I can't begin to count how many times! And you guys have always come through for me.

All that being said, I've got a NOS cam blank for a '56 322 that I bought on good faith from the seller on ebay. No way to check that over the internet, and any numbers on it wouldn't have told me a thing. I bought it on faith. If it turns out not to be what I thought, I'm out. But for what it was purported to be, I felt it was worth the gamble. I'm certainly not going to be pissed at the seller; he has a lot of history, and a lot of good feedback. Chances are, he wouldn't have known he was wrong (if that's the way it works out).

As for sniping auctions--I've won every auction for something I REALLY wanted. I see something I can't live without, I put in a proxy bid late in the game, with the max I'm willing to spend--because it turns out I CAN put a price on what I can live without! Then, just to be safe, I add 5-10 percent, because I know if something sells for two bucks more than I thought I was comfortable with, it would bug me.

If I don't win the auction because someone outbid me, then I didn't really REALLY want it! My tastes in parts and tools are cheap enough that they never reach into the thousands of dollars. Most of the things I like are below $500, which a guy can usually scrape up if he really needs to. So far, my biggest purchase was for $305 for a set of Edelbrock 409 valve covers. I was "comfortable" bidding $275. I added another $25 that would have happily been worth it if it meant winning...and then I thought "Man, what if the other guy bidding here typed in "$301" as his max bid--he'd get them because most of his competition is going to stop at $300." So I stretched to $310...$35 higher than what I "wanted" to pay, but these valve covers don't ever show up (I've seen ONE set in person--and that's coming from a guy who worked for car magazines for 10 years and went to A LOT of shows), and only two other pairs on ebay in 7-8 years, so even though it was beyond my comfort zone, I stretched.

They're on my wall now, the engine is at engine builder, and they'll be absolutely PERFECT under the hood of my '57 Chevy wagon gasser...I wouldn't have felt comfortable paying more than what I did for them (and that was a bit tight), so I'd have had to pass on them if the other guy bid $320. But I was able to get a great deal on some rare valve covers...because the guy had them headline'd poorly ("Chevy 348 409 valve covers", with no thumbnail picture to the side of the headline) and some busy-body didn't e-mail the seller and tell him to relist the auction as "Edelbrock 348 409 Valve Covers" because they're really rare and he could have sold them for a lot more. I've chased these things for almost 10 years--but could never afford them.

That scenerio plays out for a lot of us, I'm sure.

-Brad

[Dave@Moon]

Nobody was ever sniped by someone who was willing to pay <span style="font-style: italic">less</span> then they were for an item. People snipe for only one reason, to avoid lame-brained competitions for items beyond their worth. Given the competitive nature of many automotive hobbyists (which frequently goes well beyond the financially justifiable), sniping is the only bidding technique that makes sense.

If you ever bid twice on the same auction you made a mistake, probably two.

[Guest my3buicks]

very well said Dave!!!

[Guest BJM]

Larry,

I agree that I did not handle the sale of the 2x4 air cleaner in the best manner. It was years ago when I was new to the collector car hobby and did not know what I had. On the other hand, when I received the higher offer from the 2nd parts hoarder, I immediately called Cat's Lair and told him and that is when he showed his true colors and was offensive.

Since then I have learned a lot more and generally stay away from rare parts or cars with expensive rare parts available. I own a 49 Roadmaster, a 68 Riviera, and a 63 Pontiac Bonneville. I have purchased the simulated wood steering wheel for the Riviera, which was expensive, but other then that I am not into the 'rare' parts.

The 63 Pontiac has a ton of possible rare parts you could add to spice up the car (tri power, buckets, console, tach, 8 lug wheels, on and on) But I just like the looks and feel of this old car and most of those accessories would not add to my driving enjoyment so I don't even look.

This thread has hit the right pulse as basically we all agree with both points/counterpoints. On ebay, I lose probably 9 out of 10 auctions where I place my maximum bid early. It just seems there is always someone out there willing to bid .05 more.

Also I tend to buy things off ebay I "might" want or need in the future when in fact I should be spending money on these parts IF and WHEN I inspect and attempt to restore the part in question. Otherwise, I have ended up with parts I really don't need and I have to resell, usually at a lose.

[Budd]

Sniping does help (not solve, but help) the one scenario that drives me nuts... zero feedback bidders, new to eBay, who do the whole "ooohhhhwee, this eBay thing is fun... lemmee bid on this here part." and they impulse bid just to be the high bidder. I save money by just coming in at the last few seconds and placing the same bid I would have had eBay proxy bid for me. Either way, I punch in the same bid amount, but it prevents eBay noobie from emotionally bidding higher JUST TO WIN the darn thing.

Budd

[Coley]

Last year I sold an old oil company sign on ebay. I didn't know what it was worth and started it at $250.00 (that was what I had in it). It was a 10 day auction and I had no questions from the sniper that won it in the last 2 seconds for $3,800.00. I had described it well and had many pictures of it on the auction. When he got it, he didn't like the holes around the outside that were shown in the pictures and the writeup. He never asked one quetion during the 10 days. When he got it he called me a &^%#^%$* thief for selling him the sign. I finally gave him his money back (all but $200 for for my expenses. As I think back, I probably should not have refunded anything, but I don't work that way. I figure he had "buyer's remorse". What would you have done in this case with such an idiot???

[Guest BJM]

You did the right thing. Covered your costs and relist with an extra paragraph in red describing what happened and saying the next auction is final.

[Ron Green]

I would have told him tough $hit. You were honest and he was obviously an idiot.

I bought a car off Ebay a few years ago and it was halfway across the country. I asked many questions and the pictures were decent however we all know a picture and reality can be different. This vehicle was advertised as in "showroom condition". I could not find anyone to visually inspect the car for me and needed to have it delivered as it was cheaper then picking it up myself.

When it arrived the windshield was Lexan, 3 out of 4 side windows were broken (rolled down in pictures), transmission needed rebuilt, convertible top and frame were missing, carb was leaking and a whole list of stuff that was screwed up.

I called the seller and asked him what his version of "showroom condition" was and listed all of the above. He did give me 2K back however it took over 4 times that amount not counting my hours to fix. I guess buyer and seller beware.

Attached is a picture of the engine compartment that he stated was perfect however he had no pictures, imagine that.

[Glassesguy]

Guys:

I tend to agree with Keith and Carl regarding improperly listed items. I would feel that a polite, courteous,and diplomatic response does everyone a favor. The seller gets a better idea of what he has. Indeed many sellers are looking for just such a confirmation. If necessary he can relist an item in a more suitable area such as the correct year for his part. I don't like the puffery, though, of sellers putting an incorrect key word into their ad. How many of you have searched under GTO or GRANSPORT and found someone selling his Lemans or Special. Obviously he inserted one of those words to get the search's attention. Also,I do feel it is not up to us to tell someone how rare or valuable a part or item is. The seller will pretty quickly get an idea of its worth as he watches the auction unfold. As with any auction the seller comes to sell and the buyer comes to buy. When the item sells both the seller and the buyer win no matter what the price is. Both get what they set out to do.

My 2 cents for this interesting subject.

[pphil]

im just curious what did the engine sell for?????????

scott

64 (kx block) wildcat 425 2-4bbls 4-speed

[Guest JT]

John, I don't even bother bidding on an even halfway desirable part on ebay anymore due to sniping. You might as well not waste your time unless you are going to use a snipe program, which I have refused to do.

It's kind of funny to check bid history on a hot item and see that 4 bids came in with 6 seconds to go. I guess pretty soon most bidders will be using a snipe service and buying will be more like playing poker.

[Guest my3buicks]

or instead of using a snipe service one can sit their rear down and do it themselves, I routinely snipe snipes. As said countless times, it doesn't matter when the final bid comes in, what matters is you put the most you are willing to pay, if you don;t get it, then you were not willing to pay enough. It makes no sense to bid early only to drive the auction price up as the week progresses. The only time I will bid is if it is something really rare I will bid to hopefully keep the item on ebay and for it not to dissapear in an off auction agreement. Of course, I would never contact a seller and try to buy it off auction

[Guest BJM]

Absolutely true on 'not' bidding early. I don't snipe much because I am not in the right place at the right time but it seems that if I go in and put my bid in sometime before the last day, it gets blown away by someone and everyone ends up paying more. Also, I used to think that since no one bid on a 7 day auction into it's last 24 hours, that if I bid I was "secure" because no one, not even an ebay newbie, bid and the auction viewed count was relatively low then "BOOM" I get outbid by 14 bidders who came out of nowhere.

[brad54]

A guy on another website I go to a bunch just posted a win he got on ebay: Old 303/324 Rocket intake. Edelbrock 3x2. He got it for $81 plus shipping. seller had it listed poorly, and stated in the description he didn't know what it was for.

Nope, no sense bidding on ebay stuff anymore.

Even if you go up against a sniper,if your max bid is higher than his, put in before his, you'll get it. If it's not higher than his, you won't get it.

If you don't win an auction, you just didn't want it as badly as the cat who won it. I keep saying this, but when I bid on something, I decide the max I'm will to pay for it, and if I get it great, if I don't then someone else wanted it more than I did.

-Brad