Side glass for '65 - Auto City Glass

[65VerdeGS]

I'd like to replace the driver's door glass on my '65 which has become slightly cloudy and scratched.

 

Auto City Classics website lists side glass and windshields for 1st Gen Rivieras.   Here's their listing for tinted side glass:

https://www.autocityclassic.com/1963-1965-2-door-hardtop-coupe-riviera-jobs-4747-gs-49447/1965-buick-riviera-gs-2-door-hardtop-coupe-door-glass-d4469t/

 

 

Has anyone bought side glass from them before?  The price seems quite reasonable.

 

I'm concerned that the glass might be thinner than OEM, and of course the fitment must be correct for a '65.

 

Are passenger and driver's side door glass interchangeable?  Or must I specify which side?

 

[RivNut]

That looks more like a glass for a 63 that has a channel into which the glass is pressed.  The later 64s and 65s have a shaped glass which is bolted to the riser.  Here’s a thread on door glass that has some good info including a service bulletin addressing the differences.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I got into a '59 Cadillac convertible driver door glass with a mail order glass one time. After a lot of work trying to fit the glass I took the car to a local glass shop with the door upholstery off and they did a perfect cut and install while I went next door and got a MacDonald's breakfast.

 

I'd go back in a minute.

[Wayne R]

one mans garbage in New Jersey  has some nice  65 riviera glass, about a week ago, probably gone now.

go  to  item no 17608033630--its a 64 st400 tranny,  then put in his see other items.

He is honest and very trust worthy.

[XframeFX]

19 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Auto City Classics website lists side glass and windshields for 1st Gen Rivieras.

As for Auto City, I have yet to purchase anything from them. But, I've talked to them in their booth at big Car Meets. They appear to be a good Vendor bringing many goods on display that relate to me, like Christmas. They've been around for quite some time and reasonable prices.

[1965rivgs]

Alex,

  The side glass is interchangeable from left to right.

  The original side glass is tempered glass which is stronger than laminated glass. My guess would be, considering the price, they are cutting the side glass from a sheet of flat laminated glass. It would be worth a question to the supplier.

  Tempered glass cannot be cut without shattering. For this reason, windshields are made from laminated glass, because it will break but generally stay "whole" in its basic shape instead of shattering into razor sharp/hazardous pieces. One stone chip in a tempered glass windshield and it would shatter into hundreds of pieces within an arm`s length of the occupants.

  Both tempered and laminated are considered "safety glass".

  Another question to consider is whether the tint in the new glass will match the rest of the original glass? I have had this question posed to me and I dont have the answer.

Tom Mooney

[CTX-SLPR]

Never used these folks but have been eyeballing them for my weld/grinder splatter damaged side glass

https://www.sandersreproglass.com/

 

They do offer a fair number of options for lamination, edge grinds, etc.

[60FlatTop]

On 12/30/2023 at 5:36 PM, 65VerdeGS said:

 

I'm concerned that the glass might be thinner than OEM,

I took a look at my '64 door glass when I was out in the garage today. I don't think you are going to find any automotive glass that is thinner.

 

On the safety glass, my BMW 7 Series had a $2,600 security glass option that included double glazed laminated glass in place of the tempered glass. I knew no one was going to reach in through the hole left by the shattered tempered glass. Or yanked out through it!

 

Mine was an E66 but this older model gets the concept.

[CTX-SLPR]

I'll admit I thought about rigging up a double glazed setup for the Riviera using custom glass templates so the back piece still uses all of the weatherstripping for seals but the outer piece and seal were undersized.  Can't come up with a good way to evacuate all the moisture out in a DIY setup so mostly dropped the idea.

[Seafoam65]

I've used a lot of their glass over the years....The color of the tint matches and they will put the correct

logos and date codes on your new glass. Their windshield glass is fantastic. The side glass has a problem

in that the tint is mottled and streaky in certain types of light. The windshield tint is fine. The glass fits perfectly......the only problem is mottled tint on the side glass and rear glass. All the side glass you buy

for classic cars is made by the same people I believe, because I've never seen repro side glass on a classic car that doesn't have mottled tint. For this reason if you are only replacing one side window, I would source an original piece of glass, even if the date code doesn't match. As a side note, on later model cars like

80's and 90's GM cars I have seen mottled tint on original GM glass. I have never seen it on 50's, 60's and 70's cars.

[65VerdeGS]

On 12/30/2023 at 8:02 PM, Wayne R said:

one mans garbage in New Jersey  has some nice  65 riviera glass, about a week ago, probably gone now.

go  to  item no 17608033630--its a 64 st400 tranny,  then put in his see other items.

He is honest and very trust worthy.

Hi Wayne,

 

I searched eBay for item # 17608033630 and nothing comes up.  I also searched this number under sold items - no dice.  Seaches for "64 st400 tranny" and similar also came up empty.  Any chance you could look up the sellers name and let me know?

 

Thanks and Happy New Year!

[65VerdeGS]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:15 PM, CTX-SLPR said:

Never used these folks but have been eyeballing them for my weld/grinder splatter damaged side glass

https://www.sandersreproglass.com/

 

They do offer a fair number of options for lamination, edge grinds, etc.

My driver's door side glass has some scratches, but the main issue is the window has gone cloudy.  It's a subtle milky-like sheen than I cannot remove with glass polish or fine steel wool, etc.  It's not noticeable looking at the glass from a perpendicular orientation.  But when looked at from an angle, with the rear quarter glass also up, it is fairly noticeable because the rear glass (and vent window glass) remain transparent while the driver's door looks slightly cloudy.  So, polishing isn't likely to remove the cloudiness which is why I'm looking to get a replacement tinted window.

 

Polishing out window scratches is very labor intensive and would hardly be worth doing if it didn't also remove the cloudiness.  That's why I'm looking to buy replacement glass.

[Wayne R]

Sorry   Alex-----176080318630---messed up , a couple of numbers. but that is there correct name, .

i have purchased alot of items from them.--regards.

[Craig Balzer]

11 hours ago, Wayne R said:

176080318630

That works (I am not the seller)

As of 1630 on 02JAN24 (in Colorado) it is still available

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176080318630?hash=item28ff3470a6:g:4jQAAOSwJ5JlbzfS&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4ECEIZeb5fDJhd67xQKbb%2FEHmZP2d7G7jv9Q85e2JOwiBB66wO7kmoHqM9SD3fgmqJf794LhwPi90%2BveyJzxB52z7Q6EmVSgL4hcxnxrShqZ%2BQdHyFmhSNX5LRaMa76TeHSqapv%2BY8g53ZFS7N92kFL2wg87Ndw6bifiseesTfyLG8oDtIZHOcYs%2FhRHa89hF%2Bx%2B1mwBeJVMIfWu4JSYw6bxBCnPezTdZKsTrR5thXV3Y35seihio00kXw0E17NqhQg9RWxmE9oUpT0np3%2FBtmlhZgrylxGGJQ3WLENpO1xC|tkp%3ABk9SR_7xssiZYw

 

He is asking $325; Located in Manahawkin, New Jersey, United States

[RivNut]

Have you gone to a local glass shop and asked them about cutting one for you? It’s flat glass.

[65VerdeGS]

6 hours ago, RivNut said:

Have you gone to a local glass shop and asked them about cutting one for you? It’s flat glass.

Yes, it is flat glass, but not just any regular glass.  It would need to be tempered and green tinted, and I doubt a local glass shop would be able to duplicate the shape and thickness of the door glass, including the mounting holes and beveled edges of the OEM glass.  This would be a custom job, and even if they could do it, I'm sure it would be expensive!

 

 

[65VerdeGS]

18 hours ago, Wayne R said:

Sorry   Alex-----176080318630---messed up , a couple of numbers. but that is there correct name, .

i have purchased alot of items from them.--regards.

Thanks Wayne!

 

I found his listings and unfortunately he isn't offering a tinted side glass for '65.

 

About a year ago this same seller listed a tinted side glass for '65 which I bought on the spot with "Buy it Now".  Unfortunately, the seller cancelled the sale because he couldn't find the glass among his stash.  Sigh!

[65VerdeGS]

Here are a couple of pics to show the issue with my driver's door side glass:

 

Note the haziness of the door glass on left compared to the quarter window on the right

 

Here's a close up of the top edge of the door glass.  Note the crud which appears etched onto the glass.  Might this be hard water deposits?

 

I tried buffing the glass by hand using a couple of glass polishing compounds but it wouldn't move the discoloration. I also tried plain vinegar, which I've used with success before to remove hard water spots on glass.  But in this case, nothing seemed to remove the hazy deposit.

 

Any ideas out there on what this mystery hazy deposit might be?

[RivNut]

1 minute ago, 65VerdeGS said:

be?

Your door alignment is the bigger problem. 

[RivNut]

14 minutes ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Yes, it is flat glass, but not just any regular glass.  It would need to be tempered and green tinted, and I doubt a local glass shop would be able to duplicate the shape and thickness of the door glass, including the mounting holes and beveled edges of the OEM glass.  This would be a custom job, and even if they could do it, I'm sure it would be expensive!

 

 

Most glass shops have tinted auto glass.  They wouldn’t put plane old glass in a car window.  Not as hard or as expensive as you imagine.  Been there, done that.  I used to go to Larry @Sunrise Auto Glass in Merriam, KS.  Small independent shop who worked with the vintage/classic/hot rod car guys; not one of those big national shops. He had a heart attack a few years ago and no one took over his business.  Luckily, I haven’t needed glass work since then. 

[65VerdeGS]

8 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Your door alignment is the bigger problem. 

Yes, I know...  It's the glass that is misaligned.  It binds with the rubber on the leading edge of the quarter window.

 

I thought to get a new window glass first before opening up the door to fix the alignment issue.  Rather do this once, than twice.

 

Search mode ON for that window glass!

[65VerdeGS]

3 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Most glass shops have tinted auto glass.  They wouldn’t put plane old glass in a car window.  Not as hard or as expensive as you imagine.  Been there, done that.  I used to go to Larry @Sunrise Auto Glass in Merriam, KS.  Small independent shop who worked with the vintage/classic/hot rod car guys; not one of those big national shops. He had a heart attack a few years ago and no one took over his business.  Luckily, I haven’t needed glass work since then. 

Perhaps it isn't as big a deal as I thought.  I'll need to check around to see if any glass shops around here deal with vintage car glass.  I'd need to remove my side glass for them to use as a pattern for the holes, and size.  Thanks for letting me know this is a possibility.

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Yes, I know...  It's the glass that is misaligned.  It binds with the rubber on the leading edge of the quarter window.

 

I thought to get a new window glass first before opening up the door to fix the alignment issue.  Rather do this once, than twice.

 

Search mode ON for that window glass!

Take a look at the spacing between the top ofvthev door and the rear quarter panel.  If the back of the door was raise so there was a proper gap at the top of the door, your window would come a lot closer to fitting properly.  Post a picture of the entire door showing the gap at the top of the door and the bottom of the door. They should be the same.  The chrome piece across the top of the door should be level with the chrome piece for the rear quarter window. 

Edited January 3 by RivNut (see edit history)

[telriv]

You CANNOT cut or drill holes in tempered glass as it will shatter into thousands of pieces.

 

Tom T.

[65VerdeGS]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:49 PM, telriv said:

You CANNOT cut or drill holes in tempered glass as it will shatter into thousands of pieces.

 

Tom T.

That's what I thought Tom.  

 

This means a glass shop isn't going to be able to copy the door glass because they can't drill or cut the holes required for mounting.

[1965rivgs]

10 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

That's what I thought Tom.  

 

This means a glass shop isn't going to be able to copy the door glass because they can't drill or cut the holes required for mounting.

That is what I stated at the beginning of this thread. However, I just read an article about safety glass for home use which stated that laminated glass is much more expensive as compared to tempered glass. I had assumed just the opposite because of the cost associated with the energy required to temper glass...but on the other hand, laminated glass requires 2 panes of glass instead of one.

A call to the supplier would be beneficial. It is possible they are cutting the flat glass from a plate of laminated glass or possibly cutting the glass first and then tempering same.

Tom Mooney

[KURTRUK]

Go with Auto City Classic.  Don't worry that the picture doesn't match your part.  Websites take a lot of time.  A picture of every part, even more time.  They know what they're doing and know your part numbers.  I've been in Auto Glass for over thirty years.

[1965rivgs]

Just now, KURTRUK said:

Go with Auto City Classic.  Don't worry that the picture doesn't match your part.  Websites take a lot of time.  A picture of every part, even more time.  They know what they're doing and know your part numbers.  I've been in Auto Glass for over thirty years.

Any input as to the cost of tempered glass versus laminated?

Tom

[KURTRUK]

If you're having a local glass shop fabricate it, Laminated will be much cheaper.  They could make it in an hour.  Tempered will have to be sent out for tempering.  However, your '65 door glass has four holes.  I don't think you'll find a glass shop capable of drilling holes.  Go with someone selling glass that has been already fabricated.  Simple.  Make sure what you have is green tinted.  Originally E-Z-Eye or Soft Ray.  I don't think aftermarket is offering clear glass, everything is green tinted.

 

I don't know what is causing the appearance issue with your current glass.

[KURTRUK]

Just went to Auto City Classic site.  Yes, they do offer clear glass, as well.  That number 4469T is the original auto glass industry part number, and the "T" does not stand for Tint.  It is a pattern number.

[KURTRUK]

On 1/1/2024 at 3:17 AM, Seafoam65 said:

I've used a lot of their glass over the years....The color of the tint matches and they will put the correct

logos and date codes on your new glass. Their windshield glass is fantastic. The side glass has a problem

in that the tint is mottled and streaky in certain types of light. The windshield tint is fine. The glass fits perfectly......the only problem is mottled tint on the side glass and rear glass. All the side glass you buy

for classic cars is made by the same people I believe, because I've never seen repro side glass on a classic car that doesn't have mottled tint. For this reason if you are only replacing one side window, I would source an original piece of glass, even if the date code doesn't match. As a side note, on later model cars like

80's and 90's GM cars I have seen mottled tint on original GM glass. I have never seen it on 50's, 60's and 70's cars.

The "mottling" you see is a product of the tempering process.  You don't see it on windshields because windshields are not tempered.  The mottling is sometimes visible in certain lights, but often because someone is wearing polarizing eye glasses.  Is that what you wear?

[60FlatTop]

I have never used mail order tempered glass. My experience is with laminated glass cut from patterns.

 

The glass cutter has to cut both sides accurately. Maybe my jobs were done on Saturday morning after the cutter went out on a toot Friday night but they sure have been inaccurate. Enough so the edge of the two glass edges could not be ground smooth at the cut. On a framed window or one hidden in the door they can get away with the sloppy cuts. When there is an arc at the top that fits the surround channel sometimes they are not even close and can't be hidden. The Riviera is unframed and straight. That makes it easier for the cutter.

 

My recommendation would be to keep the job on a face to face basis and use the local person where ever possible just so checking the work does not become a long distance process..

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, KURTRUK said: The mottling is sometimes visible in certain lights, but often because someone is wearing polarizing eye glasses.  Is that what you wear?

I agree.  In my cars, as well as others, the only time I see “mottling” is when I have my polarized sunglasses on.

[MikeJS]

3 hours ago, KURTRUK said:

The "mottling" you see is a product of the tempering process.  You don't see it on windshields because windshields are not tempered.  The mottling is sometimes visible in certain lights, but often because someone is wearing polarizing eye glasses.  Is that what you wear?

Good day.

 

Although I do a fair bit of glass work related to stained glass, I'm far from an expert when it comes to some of the technicalities. I also have a fair bit of photographic experience as it related to polarized light, so I'm a bit confused by the term 'mottling'. (First search result - "Mottling is caused by the heart no longer being able to pump blood effectively."...??) No worries, I can see how it could be applied as I read further, but I'm here now...

 

It's my understanding that the effect seen through a polarized filter (aka sunglasses) is related to birefringence. And although photographing glass can be very challenging at the best of times, and cameras can see things differently than the human eye/brain, to me the pictures posted by 65VerdeGS does not look like polarized birefringence. Right wrong or indifferent, the all-mighty, all-knowing interweeb can sometimes provide some answers or it can sometimes simply lead one down a garden path to a dry creek bed...

 

That said, the below noted link appears to know what they are talking about in the tempered glass process and they are talking about 'white haze', which from what I gather is now part of the glass and no way of removing it short of replacing the glass. Again, really tough to tell from the pics. Personally I'd take the car to a few glass shops to see if one can get real life, hands-on experience to explain the effect based on their visual inspection.

 

---

"Most white haze is nothing more than glass dust generated by the edge grinding process. The dust should be washed off the preprocessed glass in the washing machine. However, if the water wasn’t cleaned properly beforehand and starts recirculating, it creates a fine dust layer on the glass. During tempering, this layer fuses onto the glass and appears as white haze."

[clip]

Even though white haze on tempered glass often looks like a quality issue, the safety and durability of such glass are not affected. If it breaks, the glass will still behave like normal safety glass. No defects are ever welcome – especially those that are clearly visible. Issues like white haze have a direct impact on glass processors’ profit. No wonder we all strive to keep it to an absolute minimum.

---

Source: https://www.glassonweb.com/article/getting-white-haze-under-control-tempered-glass

---

 

Hope this helps...

 

Later,

 

EDIT: KURTRUK, sorry, I think I missed whom you were quoting re the "mottling". I thought you were responding to 65VerdeGS's glass issue which is kind what I was respond to. My mistake, but hopefully mostly still relevant to the thread...)

Edited January 6 by MikeJS (see edit history)

[KURTRUK]

The patterns seen on tempered glass (which I think sometimes look like a giant magnified insect's eye) with polarized glasses I'm told is caused by the cooling jets of air putting the temper in tempered glass.

This is not what we're seeing on OP's car.  It may be mineral deposits from sprinkler overspray, or just 50+ years of rain, etc.  That can actually etch the glass.  Products I've had success with for removing this: Cerium Oxide, or diamond dust, and Bio-Clean. 

[RivNut]

I get the same “mottling” on my BMW X3.  It’s pretty new.  I see the same “mottling” in a lot of cars with tinted glass when I have on my polarized sun glasses when I’m inside the car looking out. 
 

Of course we’re taught to believe it if we find it on line, right.😎 But I did find this when I Googled “Tinted windows and polarized sunglasses.”

- What you’re seeing when you notice a checkerboard or rainbow pattern in a car window is an effect called stressed birefringence. Stress on optically clear materials often produces birefringence, which basically means that the material changes the polarization of the light.

 

Edited January 6 by RivNut (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

When I saw the term mottling I recognized it as as textured appearance similar to that of a blotchy skin condition. Marbled or similar to a 1950s Chrysler dashboard. Seemed common and descriptive to me.

 

[Seafoam65]

10 hours ago, KURTRUK said:

The "mottling" you see is a product of the tempering process.  You don't see it on windshields because windshields are not tempered.  The mottling is sometimes visible in certain lights, but often because someone is wearing polarizing eye glasses.  Is that what you wear?

No sunglasses needed.......it is mottled to the naked eye on all repro side glass for old cars. Never seen it on original equipment glass prior to the 1980's. In certain kinds of light this mottling looks horrible. And oh, it looks just like that picture of someone's arm, only green instead of red.

 

Edited January 7 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

“Mottling” is much worse with tint film than it is in factory glass.  The article from which I quoted prefaced those remarks by telling about the process of laminating glass. As the two pieces cool after being adhered to each other there will be hot and cool places in the glass.  These places of temperature difference cause the birefringence.  This would be much more prevalent when installing a film.  You’ve seen the guys drying the film with hairdryers - they do not do it with consistency. 

[65VerdeGS]

On 1/6/2024 at 1:06 PM, KURTRUK said:

The patterns seen on tempered glass (which I think sometimes look like a giant magnified insect's eye) with polarized glasses I'm told is caused by the cooling jets of air putting the temper in tempered glass.

This is not what we're seeing on OP's car.  It may be mineral deposits from sprinkler overspray, or just 50+ years of rain, etc.  That can actually etch the glass.  Products I've had success with for removing this: Cerium Oxide, or diamond dust, and Bio-Clean. 

Thanks Kurtruk for sharing your knowledge. 

 

I'm going to try to polish the glass using Cerium Oxide first.  If that doesn't remove the deposits then I'll get a new side glass from Auto City Classic.