Low-price Three's "upscale" models

[rocketraider]

December 22 Hemmings Classic Car has a nice spread on 60s Caprice, LTD and Plymouth VIP, including a bit about how the 1964 Pontiac Bonneville Brougham Vista 4dht got the ball rolling. I suppose the 1963-4 Galaxie XL Town Victoria hardtop could have fit that category though it got no mention.

 

On to the point: the Ford XL Town Victoria and the companion Mercury S-55 4dht came with bucket seats and console. The Bonneville Brougham 4dht never offered it, nor did the Caprice Sport Sedan, LTD sedan and the Plymouth VIP.

 

Each was enough of a sales success that it makes you wonder how a full-sized, high-line buckets and console 4dht might have fared in the 60s sales wars against the by-then-dominant intermediates.

 

Even the 73-77 GM Colonnade buckets/console sedans were only marginally successful even though the Oldsmobile Salon actually outperformed a Mercedes S-class sedan in a 1973 Car&Driver road test- yes, the one and same notoriously anti-American car C&D.

 

But y'all already know I like big, fast, nicely trimmed American full-size cars!😎😈

[Rusty_OToole]

There was a big change in car marketing starting in the early fifties. For the first time medium priced cars, and deluxe versions of lower priced cars, were strong sellers. The response was to bring out new super deluxe models like the Chevrolet Bel Air, Ford Fairlane and Plymouth Fury. It was in 1953 or 54 that Buick outsold Plymouth for the first time.

 

Ever since the depression any car maker could tell you their most popular model would be the cheapest black sedan. So this represented quite a change. Auto makers did not forget the lesson and every few years introduced new fancier models. Chevrolet Impala in 58, Caprice in 66 Ford LTD, Crown Vic,  Plymouth VIP, Dodge Charger, all these were full size sedans or hardtops.

[Littlestown Mike]

It seems to me that Ford essentially undercut their own cousin, Mercury< with the introduction of the LTD in the Ford line.  (If Mercury was viewed as the "step-up" from the basic Ford,)

[58L-Y8]

Upscale model proliferation and escalation throughout the 1950's and 1960's, among the traditional "low-priced three", eventually negated the reasons to buy a medium-priced car.  Consider in 1950, the size, virtually none of the luxury features and certainly nowhere near the horsepower of a Cadillac was available at the Chevrolet dealership.  By 1960, not only were all those available in the Chevrolet, even the interior space was nearly the same, for considerably less money than a Pontiac/Olds/Buick.   

[EmTee]

3 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

By 1960, not only were all those available in the Chevrolet, even the interior space was nearly the same, for considerably less money than a Pontiac/Olds/Buick.

My theory on this is that the various brands tried hard from the mid '50s through the '60s to distinguish themselves from each other; even within the same corporation.  Increasing customer loyalty allowed each brand to increase the scope of their offerings (often at the expense of other 'companion' marques) and kept their customers coming back to their local dealer for more expensive (and more profitable) new cars.

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, Littlestown Mike said:

It seems to me that Ford essentially undercut their own cousin, Mercury< with the introduction of the LTD in the Ford line.  (If Mercury was viewed as the "step-up" from the basic Ford,)

At Ford, it was always primarily about Ford.  Mercury, whenever it was developed more into an entry-level Lincoln but didn't immediately succeed versus its GM rivals, was yanked back to become a fancier Ford again.   Consider how when the concept of a four-passenger personal luxury hardtop coupe and convertible were in development, they weren't awarded to the Mercury Division...

[8E45E]

Availability was also a factor. 

 

Nearly every small town had a Chevrolet and Ford dealership, while usually, only the larger towns and major cities had Mercury-Lincoln, and Buick, Oldsmobile dealers.   In the 1960's farmers and still in the age of mom & pop proprieties, these other small-town businesses were prospering, and could afford to move upmarket, and support their local Ford or Chevrolet dealership.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

8 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

At Ford, it was always primarily about Ford.  Mercury, whenever it was developed more into an entry-level Lincoln but didn't immediately succeed versus its GM rivals, was yanked back to become a fancier Ford again.   Consider how when the concept of a four-passenger personal luxury hardtop coupe and convertible were in development, they weren't awarded to the Mercury Division...

That started in 1961 with Robert McNamara, and his severe cost-cutting, by using only one body shell for the full-size Ford & Mercury.    The compacts and intermediates at both Ford and GM were fancier versions of each brand, until it became a mockery with the 1982 "Cadillac" Cimarron.

 

Craig 

Edited December 6, 2022 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[EmTee]

3 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

...until it became a mockery with the 1982 "Cadillac" Cimarron.

Yes - I was just thinking about that example after my post above.  The interesting thing about the Cimarron was that while the other brands were reaching upward, Cadillac (being at the top of the pecking order) was forced to move in the opposite market direction in order to broaden its reach.  Obviously, not the desired result...

[58L-Y8]

34 minutes ago, EmTee said:

My theory on this is that the various brands tried hard from the mid '50s through the '60s to distinguish themselves from each other; even within the same corporation.  Increasing customer loyalty allowed each brand to increase the scope of their offerings (often at the expense of other 'companion' marques) and kept their customers coming back to their local dealer for more expensive (and more profitable) new cars.

The medium-price marques depended on brand loyalty, which was based on the perception of superiority, particularly of major components such as the engine and overall craftsmanship.   When it was revealed, GM built Buicks with Chevrolet engines, the perception of Buick superiority was undermined.  In conjunction with downsizing and the homogenization of designs and features, the reasons to buy a medium-priced car largely dissipated by the 1980's.

[SC38dls]

40 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

  When it was revealed, GM built Buicks with Chevrolet engines, the perception of Buick superiority was undermined.  In conjunction with downsizing and the homogenization of designs and features, the reasons to buy a medium-priced car largely dissipated by the 1980's.

Yes, so the rocket marketing genius at GM killed the Oldsmobile and Pontiac brands instead of Buick? 
dave s 

[Jim Skelly]

23 hours ago, SC38dls said:

Yes, so the rocket marketing genius at GM killed the Oldsmobile and Pontiac brands instead of Buick? 
dave s 

The reason Buick was saved is due to the fact that they were and are very popular in China; Oldsmobile and Pontiac were unknown in that market.  Don't be surprised if GM starts importing more vehicles from there.  The Buick Essence Envision is the first Chinese-built vehicle imported into the U.S.  Southeast Asia is growing as their standard of living improves, while the U.S., Canada, and Western Europe are stagnant. 

 

In reference to Glenn's comments on the '64 Ford XL 4-door hardtop, I remember seeing a '64 Bonneville Brougham in a junkyard and thought what a nice interior it had (cloth bench seat) and how it must have been an uncommon car. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Jim Skelly
correction per Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Cimarron a mockery?

 

An interesting concept for photographic journalism.

 

We never considered ours a great Cadillac but it one heck of a nice Cavalier.

[58L-Y8]

4 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Availability was also a factor. 

 

Nearly every small town had a Chevrolet and Ford dealership, while usually, only the larger towns and major cities had Mercury-Lincoln, and Buick, Oldsmobile dealers.   In the 1960's farmers and still in the age of mom & pop proprieties, these other small-town businesses were prospering, and could afford to move upmarket, and support their local Ford or Chevrolet dealership.

 

Craig

In the context of the 1960's when the medium-priced makes were still each regarded as distinct from their corporate siblings, my Western New York area was rife with dealerships for those makes.  In addition to being dualled such as Pontiac-Buick, Olds-Cadillac, Lincoln-Mercury, Ford-Mercury, DeSoto-Plymouth, Dodge-Plymouth and Chrysler-Plymouth, there were stand-alone dealers for Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Dodge and Mercury.     Unique to Dodge, a number had been Dodge dealerships even before the Chrysler buyout in 1928, never took a Plymouth or DeSoto franchise.  There were even a few stand-alone Mercury dealerships, though they seem to have come about when, in the mid-1950's as Studebaker sales faltered, Mercury district sales representative 'head-hunted' the better Studebaker dealers to switch to selling Mercury.  

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

We never considered ours a great Cadillac but it one heck of a nice Cavalier.

Cadillac salesmen of the day all thought the same thing.

 

Craig

[60FlatTop]

'd Oro. The Gold. Classic mid-80s contractor phone.

 

Bought it in Florida with a bad engine and shipped to NY. Hired the wrong guy to put in a reman short block. The night I finalized sorting out his handwork I hit a deer on the way home. As they say in Fargo "End of story!".

 

I bought two more over the years. Great little car I enjoyed driving them.

 

I have never been afraid to buy a car because of reputation. That car failed me due to (as I repeatedly write) poor "professional reliance and a deer. I would buy a 3 Series BMW. If a nice Cimarron was sitting there for sale as well I would take the little Caddy. But I have owned one.

 

[Larry Schramm]

9 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

The reason Buick was saved is due to the fact that they were and are very popular in China; Oldsmobile and Pontiac were unknown in that market.  Don't be surprised if GM starts importing more vehicles from there.  True.  Actually Buicks were the car of choice by the Emperors prior to Mao.

 

The Buick Essence is the first Chinese-built vehicle imported into the U.S.  Actually it is the Buick Envision.

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

15 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

There was a big change in car marketing starting in the early fifties. For the first time medium priced cars, and deluxe versions of lower priced cars, were strong sellers. The response was to bring out new super deluxe models like the Chevrolet Bel Air, Ford Fairlane and Plymouth Fury. It was in 1953 or 54 that Buick outsold Plymouth for the first time.

 

Ever since the depression any car maker could tell you their most popular model would be the cheapest black sedan. So this represented quite a change. Auto makers did not forget the lesson and every few years introduced new fancier models. Chevrolet Impala in 58, Caprice in 66 Ford LTD, Crown Vic,  Plymouth VIP, Dodge Charger, all these were full size sedans or hardtops.

You Can't put BelAir in the same box with Fairlane and Fury. BelAir and Catalina were introduced in 1950 after their companion cars, Riviera, Holiday and Coupe deVille of 1949- the first "Hardtops". Fords response followed BelAir a year later in 51 with the Victoria. Fairlane came out in 1955 along with Fury.

 

These are the years Buick outsold Plymouth and moved to #3,

1928,29,30,31,55,56

 

Pontiac took it away in 1962-69

 

Olds took it away in 1972, 73, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81

I might add that in many of those years up to about 1958 Buick outsold Pontiac and Oldsmobile. It seems that if you look at the G.M. price structure of those years you will find that Buick undercut Alfred Sloans formula for that price structure. In some instances, price leader Buicks had cut into the middle of Pontiac. This created quite a problem for Olds and Pontiac by Buick not playing by the rules. People like Harlow Curtis knew what he was doing and defied the rules. Also, it is well known Harley Earl favored Buick which didn't help. 

[Pfeil]

12 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

The reason Buick was saved is due to the fact that they were and are very popular in China; Oldsmobile and Pontiac were unknown in that market.  Don't be surprised if GM starts importing more vehicles from there.  The Buick Essence is the first Chinese-built vehicle imported into the U.S.  Southeast Asia is growing as their standard of living improves, while the U.S., Canada, and Western Europe are stagnant. 

 

In reference to Glenn's comments on the '64 Ford XL 4-door hardtop, I remember seeing a '64 Bonneville Brougham in a junkyard and thought what a nice interior it had (cloth bench seat) and how it must have been an uncommon car. 

 Jimmy Hoffa had a 1964 421 Brougham. It's also interesting that the first year Caprice (65) was also a 4 dr. only.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Crusty Trucker]

I feel that the availabity of the early'60's upscale compacts models ( Falcon Futura, Monza/Spyder) introduced almost simultaneously with the Buick Skylark, reduced size Plymouths and Dodges, the Dart/Valiant, Olds F-85, Pontiac Tempest plus the highly optionable models from AMC and Studebaker, then followed closely by the mid-sized Chevelle SS, GTO's, 442's, Roadrunners, and other similar offerings certainly accelerated the demise of the mid-level full sized cars.

As the "low priced three" migrated into the mid-priced market, the compacts and mid-sized cars easily moved into the lower strata of the market. Sub-compacts (economy cars: Pintos, Toyotas, Datsun, VW's, Vega, Chevette, etc) then made rapid gains into the lowest segment of the market as many consumers were looking for basic models which were abandoned by full size auto brands.

The continual introducrion of more upscale models to a specific brand (Fairlane, BelAire, Fury) was a micro level shift. The introduction of sub/compacts, compacts and mid-sized cars was/is the macro level change.

 

As an interesting aside, are the currently expensive EV's (Rivian, Fisker, Tesla, Lucid) positioning themselves to assume the market from the existing luxury cars even before the mandated elimination od ICE's? Food for thought.

[Littlestown Mike]

22 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

At Ford, it was always primarily about Ford.  Mercury, whenever it was developed more into an entry-level Lincoln but didn't immediately succeed versus its GM rivals, was yanked back to become a fancier Ford again.   Consider how when the concept of a four-passenger personal luxury hardtop coupe and convertible were in development, they weren't awarded to the Mercury Division...

If you look at the styling of the other car lines from Ford, I think you can see support for your statement.  It always looked to me that Fords were styled first and then Mercury had to somehow modify it to make it distinctive from the Ford.  In all cases --at least to my eye--the Ford version almost always looker better, more coherent.  I think I see the same in Canadian Fords--they always looked a little "disjointed' when comparted with the Ford version.  Yes, there are a few exceptions---

 

[8E45E]

9 hours ago, Pfeil said:

You Can't put BelAir in the same box with Fairlane and Fury. BelAir and Catalina were introduced in 1950 after their companion cars, Riviera, Holiday and Coupe deVille of 1949- the first "Hardtops". Fords response followed BelAir a year later in 51 with the Victoria. Fairlane came out in 1955 along with Fury. 

Plymouth's first hardtop was the Belvedere, and belongs in the same box.  

 

The second upscale box would be the Fury, Impala, and Galaxie 500, which by 1959, were models on their own, with a full range of body styles besides two door hardtops and convertibles.

 

And the even more upscale box are the models were are mentioning here; the Caprice, LTD, VIP and DPL.   https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1965-ford-ltd-revolutionary-it-singlehandedly-launched-the-great-brougham-epoch/

 

Craig

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, Crusty Trucker said:

I feel that the availabity of the early'60's upscale compacts models ( Falcon Futura, Monza/Spyder) introduced almost simultaneously with the Buick Skylark, reduced size Plymouths and Dodges, the Dart/Valiant, Olds F-85, Pontiac Tempest plus the highly optionable models from AMC and Studebaker, then followed closely by the mid-sized Chevelle SS, GTO's, 442's, Roadrunners, and other similar offerings certainly accelerated the demise of the mid-level full sized cars.

As the "low priced three" migrated into the mid-priced market, the compacts and mid-sized cars easily moved into the lower strata of the market. Sub-compacts (economy cars: Pintos, Toyotas, Datsun, VW's, Vega, Chevette, etc) then made rapid gains into the lowest segment of the market as many consumers were looking for basic models which were abandoned by full size auto brands.

It wasn't so much the demise of the mid-level cars, but the 'value leader', or 'entry level' rubber mat full-size cars that slowly disappeared, including the Biscayne, Ford Custom, and Savoy/Fury I, which also ended the traditional full-size two door sedan with roll-down rear windows, with the exception of the 1970-1/2 Fury Gran Coupe.   There was almost no profit margin for the dealers in them, and sales were basically to fleet buyers.  (Of course there were odd orders of Biscaynes with 427 four-speeds which are documented, but the intermediate size cars with big blocks were the norm by then.)

 

Craig 

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, Littlestown Mike said:

If you look at the styling of the other car lines from Ford, I think you can see support for your statement.  It always looked to me that Fords were styled first and then Mercury had to somehow modify it to make it distinctive from the Ford.  In all cases --at least to my eye--the Ford version almost always looker better, more coherent.  I think I see the same in Canadian Fords--they always looked a little "disjointed' when comparted with the Ford version.  Yes, there are a few exceptions---

 

Here's evidence of how Mercury styling was handed off the Ford stampings then had to add to or modify them to style the Mercury: 1963 and 1964 models applied the upper door cap to the Ford door stampings to create the upper surface development. 

[Jim Skelly]

12 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

yup ... some Buick SUV; thanks for the correction, Larry

[Jim Skelly]

I thought the first Fury was 1956.

[Pfeil]

4 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Here's evidence of how Mercury styling was handed off the Ford stampings then had to add to or modify them to style the Mercury: 1963 and 1964 models applied the upper door cap to the Ford door stampings to create the upper surface development. 

Take a look at these four 1959 2 dr hardtops. Chev. Pont. Olds, Buick. They all use the same glass and canopy and basic firewall, and all use the same door, some Cadillac models too. The doors on the Buick and Olds have bolt on body contours.

>

 

 

 

>> 59 Pontiac door  

 

 

 

> 59 olds door

The upper add on body contour & bolts can be seen 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Buick used that same trick on 70s-80s Estate Wagons to adapt their front sheetmetal to the GM corporate B wagon front doors. Olds used completely different front fenders on their version.

 

Still think buckets/console on about any higher-line full-size 60s 4 door hardtop would have been a great option. The 63-64 XL interior configuration showed what could have been.

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Buick used that same trick on 70s-80s Estate Wagons to adapt their front sheetmetal to the GM corporate B wagon front doors. Olds used completely different front fenders on their version.

I believe it was from the firewall back to the rear bumper, all the redesigned 1977 & up full-size wagons were the same stampings.  Only the textures and emblems (when it was used) on the taillight lenses differentiated each brand.

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

5 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Take a look at these four 1959 2 dr hardtops. Chev. Pont. Olds, Buick. They all use the same glass and canopy and basic firewall, and all use the same door, some Cadillac models too. The doors on the Buick and Olds have bolt on body contours.

>

 

 

 

>> 59 Pontiac door  

 

 

 

> 59 olds door

The upper add on body contour & bolts can be seen 

One wonders if this was where the Ford body engineers got the idea to apply that method to Ford components to make the Mercury.  The rushed all-new 1959 GM full-size program truncated the tradition A-B-C body program to essentially a B-size body for all makes.

[Pfeil]

17 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

One wonders if this was where the Ford body engineers got the idea to apply that method to Ford components to make the Mercury.  The rushed all-new 1959 GM full-size program truncated the tradition A-B-C body program to essentially a B-size body for all makes.

What is amazing to me is how many different shapes (essentially a B-size body for all makes) the different divisions could come up with and still be different from one-another. That also includes the 60 models in with the 59's. 

[58L-Y8]

22 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

What is amazing to me is how many different shapes (essentially a B-size body for all makes) the different divisions could come up with and still be different from one-another. That also includes the 60 models in with the 59's. 

As the 1959 crash program was being developed during 1956-'57, Buick was the better seller over Pontiac and Oldsmobile so the overall body platform was sized for Buick, even its door sets were the default units.  Since 'bigger was better', Chevrolet buyers would be offered the largest, most spacious cars ever.  For Cadillac, some adjustments would be made in the rear cowl to allow more interior space, though years of sharing C-Bodies with Buick would be viewed as normal and acceptable even in this case.   The overall impressive lengths and width mask any relative shortcomings of one body platform. 

[Larry Schramm]

When Fisher Body was running the show on body design they had certain points that could not be touched on the vehicle design.  Typically they were door openings, A, B, and C pillar locations, body mounts to the frame, floor boards, front of dash/firewall, doors, etc.  All of these items were called "black metal" because it was part of the body that the customer could not/would not see. Even seat frames and attachment points.  At one time you could put a Buick Electra seat in a full size pick up truck as the attachment points were the same. 

 

Attached to the black metal was "white metal" which were surfaces that the customer would see, touch, experience. Door skins, upholstery, dashes, gauges,  The individual divisions could do about anything they wanted to white metal to distinguish their cars & truck(not so much trucks) from the other divisions and in the market place.  Because of this common black metal common architecture GM was able to make millions of dollars on vehicle sales. 

 

That same control by Fisher also carried over to other parts of the cars.  Examples would be windshield washer pumps which were the same on every GM car.  The motor that ran the windshield wiper was the same motor that was on the power seat motor and the electric windows.  Common, Common, Common was their drive to save money and improve quality.  One set of tooling for a fixed price spread over millions and millions of vehicle made the tooling like presses, dies, etc... almost a non existent in the price of a vehicle.  

 

The math is like this.  If a stamping die cost $1 Million and you make 1 car the tooling cost for that fender would be $1 million.  Two cars, the tooling is $500K/car.  Make 100,000 cars a tooling cost is $10/car.  One million cars and tooling cost is $1/car.  That is how GM, Ford, and Chrysler survived the big shake out of manufacturers in the 30's to the 50's. 

[Rusty_OToole]

The reason for going to one basic body for all GM lines in 1959 was so they could go to a 2 year styling cycle. The idea was they could have an all new body for the 59 models, a major face lift for the 60 models, and another brand new body for the 61s. Instead of the typical 3 year styling cycle they used previously.

 

Ironically the "build them all from one body shell" only lasted one year, 1959. For 1960 they added a second body for Corvair. Parts of the Corvair were adapted for the Buick Special, Olds F-85 and Pontiac Tempest in 61. Then came the Chevy II, Chevelle, Camaro etc. I don't know if that was the master plan or if they were overtaken by events. I suspect it was the latter.

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

That same control by Fisher also carried over to other parts of the cars.  Examples would be windshield washer pumps which were the same on every GM car.  The motor that ran the windshield wiper was the same motor that was on the power seat motor and the electric windows.  Common, Common, Common was their drive to save money and improve quality.  One set of tooling for a fixed price spread over millions and millions of vehicle made the tooling like presses, dies, etc... almost a non existent in the price of a vehicle.  

 

The math is like this.  If a stamping die cost $1 Million and you make 1 car the tooling cost for that fender would be $1 million.  Two cars, the tooling is $500K/car.  Make 100,000 cars a tooling cost is $10/car.  One million cars and tooling cost is $1/car.  That is how GM, Ford, and Chrysler survived the big shake out of manufacturers in the 30's to the 50's. 

Problem was, GM took the cost-cutting way too far, and Oldsmobiles did start to look like tarted up Chevrolets, etc., starting in the late 1970's.    https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/1983-fortune-will-success-spoil-general-motors/

 

GM should have learned from British Motor Corporation, when they had all SIX different marques sharing body shells ten years earlier.  First, the Farina-body cars from 1959 were all offered as Austin, Morris, MG Magnette, Riley, Wolseley, and Vanden Plas.  And again, in 1962, body sharing also went to the extreme, with all six marques in England, plus Innocenti in Italy with the ADO16 body & platform:   https://www.the1100club.com/ado16_history.php   This came to mind when GM introduced the J-body in mid-1981.

 

Craig

 

 

[Oldsfan]

19 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Still think buckets/console on about any higher-line full-size 60s 4 door hardtop would have been a great option. The 63-64 XL interior configuration showed what could have been.

Glenn,

 

Don't forget about the mid '60s Buick Wildcats. They had buckets and console available on 4-door hardtops - either standard or optional depending on the year, I think.

 

[Larry Schramm]

3 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Problem was, GM took the cost-cutting way too far, and Oldsmobiles did start to look like tarted up Chevrolets, etc., starting in the late 1970's.    https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/1983-fortune-will-success-spoil-general-motors/

 

That is what happens when the finance people take over the company. Count beans regardless what the market wants.  They have no passion in the product, regardless what it is but this time it is vehicles.

[rocketraider]

Paul, never knew the Wildcat offered that configuration. Thanks for that info.

 

A Wildcat is the perfect personification of that type car. Upscale, sporty big car that can get up and dance if required!

[8E45E]

6 hours ago, Oldsfan said:

Don't forget about the mid '60s Buick Wildcats. They had buckets and console available on 4-door hardtops - either standard or optional depending on the year, I think.

Along with a 4-speed option.

 

Along with the Riviera Gran Sport, they were called a "Banker's Hotrod".

 

Craig

[Frank DuVal]

10 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Paul, never knew the Wildcat offered that configuration. Thanks for that info.

Not only that, but a 4 speed was available too!  And under the hood, dual quads option....  They did not earn the name banker's  hot rod building stodgy cars!

 

Still would like to find a 63 Wildcat station wagon with the 4 speed and bucket seats. Probably none made that way....

 

Most recent Buick Bugle has a story on these combinations, story is about a 63 4 speed Wildcat convertible.

 

But I do have a 70 Estate Wagon 455 and three on the tree. Factory built. One of 26 on record.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)