1921 Buick Model 46 Revival Saga

[IFDPete]

Hello all Pre War Buick Gang - 

I decided to start a thread that would record the revival of my all original 1921 Buick model 46.  As many of you know it was a garage find from an estate and was well preserved with an original intact interior.  The find was written about in the May 2022 issue of the Buick Bugle magazine as an article entitled "Pre-War Garage Finds of a Lifetime."  This car was fantastically well preserved and upon initial inspection appeared to be complete.  Once the car was in my possession, I began to dig into this gem and so I will show you all what was found.  It is a non-runner and the engine was seized.  We do not know when it last was running.  My goal will be to get the car running and driving and preserve the originality and patina, rather than a restoration to make it look showroom fresh.  So lets call it a mechanical restoration. 

 

I am way behind in writing about my progress so I will post things every few days to get caught up to the car's current state.  So lets start in the beginning  The car arrives in March 2022 and the fun begins...........

 

Our new 101 year old "NEW" car is welcomed by the whole family - including our Greyhound, Angel.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by IFDPete (see edit history)

[IFDPete]

Moved the rug and pulled the floorboards to reveal the battery.......this car has not been run in MANY years!  Note the negative connector completely eaten away by corrosion and the cable suspended above the battery. 

 

 

Pulled the battery for clean up and pulled the box to assess.  I am thinking that the battery is from the late 1930s or early 1940's.  The casing is hard rubber.  How old do you guys think it is??  I will need to make a new battery box.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by IFDPete (see edit history)

[Bloo]

SIx volt tar top batteries were still around in the early 70s. I suspect yours is quite a bit older, but I don't know how to prove it. What is remarkable about it to me is I do not see any cracks in the hard rubber case. Is it really uncracked?! Tar tops were rebuildable. It might be interesting to build one in that case if it isn't broken.

[Morgan Wright]

Looks like my battery box. I cut a piece of plywood and set it in the box for the bottom, got a 6V Optima battery which fits diagonally in the box, and never looked back.

 

I got a new ground strap but continue to use the old + cable.

[alsancle]

Cool.  Good luck.

 

That battery is probably 70 years old.

[alsancle]

PS,  I love the victoria coupe body style.

[IFDPete]

Engine as found.  Engine locked up and would not turn with hand crank.  Amazingly, all parts are there. All hoses intact and connected. 

 

Engine has since been freed up.  Poured a 50/50 mix of acetone and transmission fluid into the cylinders so that there was about an inch of fluid in each cylinder.  I then let it sit and soak for 7 days and tried to turn with the hand crank.  Nothing was moving.  Let it soak another week and saw that the cylinder fluid had drained out at the end of that time.  Engine was still not moving with hand crank.  Placed the car in gear and then grabbed a front passenger side wheel spoke.  Pushed and pulled lightly on the spoke letting the cars' weight put pressure on the engine.  With just a little rocking of just an inch or so forward and back on the spoke, I heard a light click and then saw the fan and the water pump shaft start moving.  The engine is now free!!!!  What a thrill!  I poured some oil in the top of the cylinders and started turning it by hand with the crank to oil up the cylinder walls.  It moved nicely with no binding, grinding or hesitation.

 

Why was this car so well preserved...more on that to come.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by IFDPete
spelling (see edit history)

[Lahti35]

14 hours ago, IFDPete said:

 

Our new 101 year old "NEW" car is welcomed by the whole family - including our Greyhound, Angel.

Neat car, I look forward to the rejuvenation!

 

Give Angel a scratch on the neck for me... We've had greyounds for a long time, they are a treasure. My wife and I just love them, we get ours from a rescue group in southwest MI.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

The spark plug wire terminals are priceless, especially on the spark plug end.

 

Don't lose them, reuse them.

[IFDPete]

 

Lahti35 -

We have had greyhounds for about 30 years.  Angel is our third.  They are the best house pets!  Here is our canine princess on her throne.

 

Morgan - A wood platform in the battery box is a great fix until I have time to create a new box.  After all it was supporting that old battery.  I will definitely reuse cap, rotor, and wires.  I know they are like gold.

 

Bloo - Yes that hard rubber battery case is really not cracked.  I looked at the sides and bottom.  In fact, there is liquid acid still in it.  As far as rebuilding the battery - Not sure it is a project I want to tackle.  Put a volt meter on it and it showed 0.0 volts.  Go figure.  For now it will just sit in the corner of the garage.  Although, I am not sure it is a safe thing to keep hanging on to.

Edited September 19, 2022 by IFDPete (see edit history)

[IFDPete]

Spark plugs pulled for the cylinder soaking as written about earlier.  Here are pics of the plugs as found.  5 are similar AC Titan plugs from I am guessing the 30's or 40's.  The one double electrode plug was in cylinder #2.  Could it be an original plug from 1921??  What do you guys think?

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by IFDPete
photos added (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Glad to read that the motor is now unstuck.  Do consider dropping the pan to continue a thorough assessment.  Given the age of this battery, it has been a very long time since this motor has been operational.  I would say that length of time not running warrants a full tear down of the motor.  I am currently going thru a 1926 Buick Master that had a similar battery in it.  Finding many issues with oil plugged in the oil galleries, sludge on everything, a separated oil feed header, missing oil pick up screen, heavily pitted camshaft rollers,  and one broken piston ring.  After seeing all the oil feed problems pulling the pistons out the bottom was the smart thing to do.  There is rust in the cylinders and it is better to remove that and lubricate with breakin lube, rather than letting the rings pulverize the rust.  I worry about the rings getting stuck in the ring grooves.      

Owner wanted to just get it started and I told him we are going to take it in order and we have a lot of inspection to do before considering adding fuel to it.  

It would have been a disaster in short order if the car was started.  If you do it right, you should not need to replace the babbitting if you are careful with the disassembly and labeling parts orientation.  You have a great car to start with.     Hugh          

[Morgan Wright]

I agree. If the engine had been stuck it likely was carbon sticking the rings to the cylinder walls. That means there is still carbon in the rings sticking them to the grooves so they can't move, which is their job. The only way to remove carbon is physically, since nothing dissolves it. No amount of acetone or toluene or anything will dissolve these heavy carbon deposits no matter what people claim. Take off the pan and pull the pistons down one by one, clean the pistons and replace the rings, they are a standard size ring Otto has thousands of them. Plus it gives you a chance to put your hand in the cylinders to see if the sleeves are smooth or pitted, my guess from looking at your car is it was kept in a safe humidity free place so the cylinder walls are probably smooth. (Mine were smooth as glass and my car was kept in a leaky barn, yours is much better so more likely to be AOK.)

[dibarlaw]

Pete:

 That style AC TITAN is probably period original to the 1920s. By 1930s the designs had changed on plugs by major manufacturers. I think the TITANS may be originals. The double electode one may be a replacemet to control some oil fowling in that cylinder.

1923 advertizement

1927 Ad.

 1934 Ad.

[IFDPete]

Larry - great info on the spark plugs and your supposing that the dual prong plug was the replacement with the titans as the originals.  The Titans seem to match what is shown in the 1923 ad as a 78LT plug for Buick.

 

Hugh & Morgan I will be breaking the engine down and going through it.  More to follow on the breakdown.

 

I pulled oil dipstick and found it dark brown and low but at least present.  Opened oil petcock to drain oil and nothing came out.  There is no drain plug bolt on these early Buick oil pans, just a petcock drain on the driver side of the pan.  I used some tubing and a suction to siphon oil from the dipstick tube.   Once all of the oil was siphoned, I dropped oil pan and found one and a half inches of gelled sludge in the pan covering the drain hole for the petcock drain valve.  That’s why no oil drained out when I tried earlier.  Sorry, I must not have taken any pictures of the pan full of sludge – my hands, I’m sure, were dirty. 

In removing the oil pan I found that two of the pan retaining bolts were larger than the others.  That explains the 2 bolts that were missing from the bell housing cover!!  Someone must have lost two oil pan bolts or stripped them out and replaced them with larger bell housing bolts.  They apparently grabbed what was handy. 

 

I can show you the clean pan as it is still off of the car.  No signs of rust or corrosion.  I still need to clean off the gasket.

 

 

[IFDPete]

Valve Cage Pulling -

 

There is another post on this site that I started a while ago regarding Valve Cage Nuts and their removal. 

 

 

Needless to say the cage nuts were loosened and removed.  

 

I used a vintage tool to pull the valve cages that I picked up on Ebay - The Valve Jack by A.T Hansord & Co.  I believe that it was marketed to Ford Model A or Model T owners for pulling valves.  It has a tri-jaw puller and beveled jaw closer that tightens the jaws as you pull up.  I saw it on Ebay and thought it might work well on the Buick Valve cages.  It is about 18 inches long.  After removing the cage retaining nut, I filled the cage wells with Marvel Mystery Oil and let them soak.  I attached the tool to the valve cages and then tapped the end of the Jack with a 4lb. dead blow hammer with about 10 light blows in hopes of cracking the carbon so the oil would soak in around the cage.  I would check every few days to see if the oil level had lowered in the cage well or was gone.  I would give each stuck cage a about 10 hits every few days.  Once the fluid had soaked through on a cage used the Valve Jack and dead Blow Hammer and they would come free.  Some cages came out in a just a couple days of soaking others took 6 or 7 weeks of soaking. 

 

Note that my tool is missing the adjustable height base shown in the first picture, so I just used a 2x4 block of wood to get the appropriate height needed for the Valve Jack.  It worked really well for me.   Pete

 

 

I will look to see if I took pictures of the valve cages and post them next if I have them.  Pete

Edited September 21, 2022 by IFDPete (see edit history)

[IFDPete]

Cage Valves - 

 

Here are some pictures of one of the valve cages and its appearance after pulling and taking apart.  Pretty typical condition for all of them.  Will get them cleaned up and then lap them.  Also attached, pictures of the spring compressor I used to get them apart.  The compressor pictures are on a cleaned intake valve.  Most of the cages were soaked in a can Berryman's Carburetor Parts Cleaner for 24 hours.  12 valve cages meant many days of soaking one by one so that the parts did not get mixed up for each individual cage.  Carbon was softened so I could scrub and scrape it off with a flat screwdriver and some Scotch Brite pads.  Cages then rinsed and then brushed with a coating of motor oil to stop flash rusting.  You can see this cleaned valve cage was already starting to flash rust in the bird hole.  A little steel wool and then oil fixed it up.  I still have not lapped the valves but will later.  Too busy right now with the engine break down.  Why am I breaking the engine down??  We will get to that on my next post.  Stay tuned.   Pete

Edited September 21, 2022 by IFDPete (see edit history)

[IFDPete]

Why the Engine Breakdown?  Why is this car so well preserved?

 

OK - It is time to shine a huge spotlight on one of the BIG problems with this car.  It a nice car and was well stored...but...that it because it does not run.  IT IS BROKEN IN A BIG WAY.  When I found the car, it was January, deep in a garage with no electrical lighting, surrounded by stacked vintage tires, automobilia. and other prewar cars.  It was parked in the back row, furthest from the open garage door and any natural light.  I was shopping by flashlight.  I knew the engine was seized and was hesitant to get the car. 

 

 

My car as found next to the tan one in the foreground behind the wood furniture and stacked tires - It looks brighter in that garage than when I was there.  What you cannot see are the tires standing 2x2 between each car and the signs and tires behind the cars.  It was tight quarters indeed. 

 

So the car was well preserved and in need of an engine teardown because....it was frozen in time...literally.  As you know there was no antifreeze in the early auto days and so water was used as coolant.  In the winter you had to drain the radiator and engine if the car was going to be stored in freezing temperatures.  Apparently someone forgot to drain this car.  The outer wall of the engine water jacket is cracked.  This crack would have leaked out all over and the car would never be driven again.  The car must have been tucked away as a non-runner and forgotten about.  My point is that I missed this crack upon inspecting the car.  Oh well - I still think this car was a great find.  

 

 

So this crack is on the drivers side rear end of the engine under the manifolds and as you see it is right on the curved edge of the block and curves up and around the back end of the block against the firewall.  All the cracking is about 8 inches total in different directions.  It is a complex crack.  I spoke with Terry Weigand who recommended I talk to Abrahams Machine Shop in Davenport Iowa.  I spoke with them and they said that with the crack on the curve, cold stitching is not an option for repair.  So welding or brazing is the only option for this to be repaired.  I will take better pictures of the crack once the block is out of the car.

 

So the plan now is pull the pistons out, take the manifolds off, get the upper cylinder block off of the engine, get the upper block thermal cleaned, have the block welded or brazed, then off to the machine shop for cylinder & piston checks and new rings.  While all that work is done, I will clean up the carburetor, vacuum tank, remove the gas tank for cleaning & sealing...and on and on.. So the saga will continue into next year.   

[Bloo]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:19 AM, IFDPete said:

 

Bloo - Yes that hard rubber battery case is really not cracked.  I looked at the sides and bottom.  In fact, there is liquid acid still in it.  As far as rebuilding the battery - Not sure it is a project I want to tackle.  Put a volt meter on it and it showed 0.0 volts.  Go figure.  For now it will just sit in the corner of the garage.  Although, I am not sure it is a safe thing to keep hanging on to.

Just don't let it freeze. That happens easily when the battery is completely dead, and usually breaks the case. Nothing should come out unless you break the case.

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, IFDPete said:

I spoke with Terry Weigand who recommended I talk to Abrahams Machine Shop in Davenport Iowa.  I spoke with them and they said that with the crack on the curve, cold stitching is not an option for repair.  So welding or brazing is the only option for this to be repaired. 

I would check with another source or two before brazing or welding on that. @edinmass should know who to ask.

 

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Absolutely as @Bloo said above.  Ask @edinmassfor recommendations.  There is NO reason cold stitching can not be done on curved surfaces. It just takes more care and time. I would only put a torch to that block as an absolute last resort.

[edinmass]

Yup…..do NOT use heat or welding on that block. I would recommend sending photos to my stitcher and see what his comments are. I have only seen two instances where he couldn’t stitch something. Send me a PM and I will get you his number. I’m not certain how difficult it is to locate another block, but shipping today is very expensive. Most importantly, take your time. If the car needs pistons and new bearings starting with a spare engine would make the most economic sense. It’s a cool car and a great project. Finding unexpected major problems on cars sitting for decades is common. When I buy great old bar finds I always price in a total engine job……..so far I have been luckier than average and only had to suck up the labor that was unexpected. It may be possible with help from members here to get the block to Hershey. If you can make that happen, I have several friends who could get the block to the stitcher for gas money. He is located in Massachuetts. Best, Ed

[edinmass]

Here is a 409 block repaired without disassembly. Personally I would always pull it down. Notice the curve doesn’t make a difference. 
 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Rock10]

What does something like that cost?

What would be wrong with using the J B weld method?

[edinmass]

Just another short note………heating an entire block to 900 degrees still doesn’t solve half the problems. The crack is contaminated with rust……..so it’s impossible to get a clean surface for the repair. Oxygen by definition is bad for welding…..thus shielding gas when you mig or Tig weld. Well, rust is oxygen…….and thus you will have contamination when making the repair. We could talk for hours about stress cracking. And when your all done welding IF you beat the odds and it holds, the block is no longer square and ALL surfaces must be machined from square one. That includes top and bottom deck, line boring the mains, and punching out the cylinders. So welding is the least desirable repair for a crack. As far as you application, 8 inches of crack in multiple directions means the cooling process is very likely to fail due to stress relief. Been there and done that several times forty years ago. I have learned my lesson, I only stitch or replace the casting. Yup, you MIGHT get lucky and weld it. Then almost no one spends the money to machine everything, and virtually all your reciprocating parts are now also at risk. In 99 percent of all cases, the stitching repair is much less expensive and a much better repair. Best of luck.

Edited October 28, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

5 minutes ago, Rock10 said:

What does something like that cost?

What would be wrong with using the J B weld method?

JB Weld is not welding. It is glue. You don’t glue metal. 

[Morgan Wright]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:02 PM, IFDPete said:

 There is no drain plug bolt on these early Buick oil pans, just a petcock drain on the driver side of the pan. 

 

 

 

 

 

Odd. My E-49 has a drain plug bolt.

 

I have a block for $300, it's a 1918, same 242 engine, others might know whether there are any differences besides the lack of valve cover. (No ridge for valve cover gasket)

 

 

.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

For $300 I'll toss in the whole rest of the engine. It's all there, crank, pistons, everything. 

[Rock10]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

JB Weld is not welding. It is glue. You don’t glue metal. 

I did on our 36 with the blessings and aid of several in the forum.

[IFDPete]

Thanks to all for their responses.  I really appreciate all of your interest, support,and this discussion.  Certainly, I have a lot more to think about.  Yes - cold stitch repair would be my choice.  I agree I will have to talk to more than one shop for opinions on doing a stitch on this motor.  Another reason the shop I talked to was hesitant to stitch this block was the  fact that some of the small cross stitches would need to be into the area outside the water jacket down into cylinder #6.  You can see in my picture that the long crack is on the bottom edge of the water jacket.  The long stitch isn't the problem.  It is the short cross stitches that reinforce the long stitch and would go across the cracked area.  In the picture Edinmass posted of the red engine those cross stitches look like they extend 3/4 to  1 1/4 inches from the center of the long stitch.  There is nothing but cast iron and cylinder sleeve below the crack in my block.  Very little, if any, water jacket space to drill into on the bottom side of the crack. 

 I will talk to other shops and get a few opinions.  I am not committed to welding or brazing.  I am just trying to show why this stitch would be so difficult.  But I will let a few experts look and tell me if it can be done.

 

I pledge to let you all know what I find out....and the outcome.  Also - I will get better pictures of the crack and post them once I have the block off of the car.

 

Morgan - thanks for the generous engine offer.  I will think about it and get back to you if I want to get it.  Right now I am committed to cleaning up this block and getting it evaluated for repair.

 

 

 

 

 

[IFDPete]

Water Tube:

 

Removed the upper radiator hose and water tube from the engine block in preparation for upper cylinder block removal.

 

Lots of scale in the tube and block.  Some scale in the radiator hose and looking in the top of the radiator I do not see any.

 

 

 

Scale mountain coming out of the block when I removed the tube.

 

 

 

Water tube is severely scaled inside and forward downtube has a corrosion blemish that upon further inspection I can see a pinhole of light through.  I have circled the light in yellow.  

 

 

So if my engine block crack can be repaired, it looks like I will need a new water tube as well.  However, I will wait on completing the block repair before moving forward on purchasing a new water tube.  It has been interesting digging into this car.  I hope it will be a runner.  At the very least, my wife knows where to find me most days!

[dibarlaw]

Peter:

 Roger McGinnis has reproduced these tube in copper. He has a variety from the teens thru at least 1926. I gave him my 1925 water tube to reproduce for donb27.

Beautiful workmanship.

He should be in the chocolate field at Hershey a row over from us at Dean Tryon's space.

 I had bought the last Stainless Steel tube for my car from a vendor in Europe. Over $400 at the time then I had to put about the same $ in my time to get it to fit. Also it was 5/8" lower at the front than my original.

 

 

[IFDPete]

Larry - yes I plan to talk to Mr. McGinnis.  I had read about his work in other posts on this forum.  Many happy customers and recommendations.

[IFDPete]

Pistons Pulled & Babbit Bearing inspection & Plastigage

 

I have pulled the pistons out of the bottom of the engine.  It was not so straightforward as I was thinking it would be.  Once the piston is out of the cylinder there is very little clearance between the piston top and the upper block and the piston bottom and the crankshaft.  I was able to tip them and maneuver them out.  By the sixth piston I had it down but the first ones were a struggle.  

 

Below is Piston #5 as pulled - pretty typical condition for all.  Carbon caking on top, rings are free but also full of carbon.  Third ring down from top is oil control ring with central groove slots that would allow oil in and through holes in piston and then down inner walls of piston.  Oil control slots on this ring are completely filled with carbon.  Little if any oil was being controlled.  

 

 

Piston #1 had problems - Top ring was OK but second ring from top was a ring that had a metal spring ring under it.  The ring was fine but that spring was broken with three small pieces sticking out from the edge of the ring.  The oil control ring was completely broken into 2 pieces and fell off the piston once it was out of the engine.  Piston was dipped in Berrymans Carburetor cleaner bucket and rings wiped clean before these pictures with and without flash.

 

 

So new rings as well as piston and cylinder checks by a machine shop are in my future.  

 

Below are picture of piston Babbit bearings - Piston #5.  All are of similar condition after only 20,300+ miles.

 

 

Crank shaft looking good - Picture below is Piston #5 (top) and #6 (bottom) positions.

 

 

Plastigage was done on the piston caps and all were about .002 - Crank shaft and bearings are looking good.

 

 

Next up - pulling the upper cylinder block for crack repair...

[Oldtech]

Those rings are worn right out.  Not sure what the options for replacement are these days, One trick is to put 2 narrow rings in each groove. 

[Hubert_25-25]

Otto Gas Engine Works may have NOS rings for you.  

[Morgan Wright]

Yeah, I got all new rings from Otto, he even suggested replacing one ring on each piston with oil rings, and drilling holes in the piston for oil control. On mine (E-49) each piston has 4 rings, 3 for compression and one on the bottom. In the original all 4 rings were the same, but Otto sold me 3 for compression and one for oil. I'll get my camera out and take pictures now. Be back in a few minutes.

[Morgan Wright]

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

[IFDPete]

Thanks for info and pictures Morgan.  For whatever reason my pistons have a slotted oil control ring with holes drilled through the piston in the third position down from the top.  The bottom ring (fourth from top) is solid.

Edited October 12, 2022 by IFDPete
Photo added (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

You can see my pictures also of my work on the 1922 piston/rings I did on this forum.