Norwalk Underslung, Dagmar, Astor, Pope Tribune

[pkhammer]

  Early automobiles I've never heard of before despite being on display at the Washington County MD Rural heritage Museum, which is only 2 hours from me. After a little searching it seems that these Uber rare automobiles were produced in Martinsburg, WV (Norwalk Underslung) and Hagerstown, MD (Dagmar, Pope Tribune and Astor). The Astor was made by the MP Moller Motor Car Company.

   I plan to visit this museum in a couple of weeks and will post photos. Anyone have any information on these obscure companies?

[Terry Bond]

If you visit the Crossroads Antique Mall in Hagerstown you'll see a nice display of Dagmar and Moller memorabilia.   Just one quick ? - what is "Uber rare"?  I thought Uber was a taxi service thing.

Terry

[Brass is Best]

The Norwalk Automobile Company was founded in Norwalk Ohio. It was later sold and moved to West Virginia. While in Norwalk the company built A High Wheeler. It was called the Norwalk Auto-Bug. 2-cylinder and Air cooled. When the company was moved the owners decided to try the luxury market. The Yellow car was built in 1914. I think only one was built before the company folded.

[nzcarnerd]

Were they really in those bright colours back in the day?

[Gunsmoke]

NZ said "Were they really in those bright colours.." I understand it is "it" and not "they", being only one of one. Nice photos BiB, of an "uber rare car"!  Guess I'm going to have to look these up in my Funk and Wagnells (an old Smother Brothers Skit)! (or was it Rowan and Martin?)

[KLF]

Looks like a Herschell-Spillman engine. I've got a similar one in my 14 Premier. They were used in a number of the smaller manufacturers at the time. Interesting to see the electric shift. I wonder how well they worked.

Ken

[Grimy]

I believe the Dagmar uses the Continental 8A engine as in my 1922 Paige 6-66. 3.75 x 5 for 331 cid.

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

Were they really in those bright colours back in the day?

Value of black and white photos just shot up. 

[wayne sheldon]

Thanks Bob! I love era photos. So much real history in them. We my not be able to tell if it was a maroon, or dark green, or blue? But we can tell it wasn't orange.

A one-off of one? Almost anything is possible. But I would have bet the colors it is isn't the colors it was.

[Guest]

Yes, the car is quite interesting but the color scheme looks like something from Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

[pkhammer]

8 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

If you visit the Crossroads Antique Mall in Hagerstown you'll see a nice display of Dagmar and Moller memorabilia.   Just one quick ? - what is "Uber rare"?  I thought Uber was a taxi service thing.

Terry

  Thanks for the info about the Antique mall. I guess these days people think of the taxi service when they hear "uber" but if you google the meaning it says "denoting an outstanding or supreme example of a particular kind of person or thing". It's something I've heard said many times and always took it to mean "super" or "ultra".

 

  Here's a shot of the Dagmar I found.

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Yes, the car is quite interesting but the color scheme looks like something from Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

It looks more like a commercial shade of yellow than anything else.   

 

Safety Yellow, Highway Yellow, School Bus Yellow, Shell Yellow, Wimpey Yellow (google it), British Telecom Yellow........

 

Craig

[63RedBrier]

Seems like the rear axle could have been moved back an inch or two, or the rear of the rear fender wrapped closer to the rear wheels for better proportions...

[1937hd45]

 

I won a T shirt from the local Car Talk radio station years ago. Question was what is a Dagmar? I called in and said it was an odd looking car made in Hagerstown, MD. They agreed, but were thinking of the others. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[PartsAncient]

A fabulous and extremely comprehensive 72 page highly illustrated article on Dagmar Automobiles was written by the late Keith Marvin and featured in Vol. X, No. 1  February 1960 of The Upper Hudson Valley Automobilist. I have a copy and nearly every issue on that clubs publications.

[28 Chrysler]

12 hours ago, nzcarnerd said:

Were they really in those bright colours back in the day?

There was some bright colors that were carried over from the buggy days.  Paints were ordered

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

what is "Uber rare"?  I thought Uber was a taxi service thing.

German for "over" or "above".

[PartsAncient]

uber-

/ˈo͞obər/

combining form

• 1. denoting an outstanding or supreme example of a particular kind of person or thing

The 1914  Norwalk is an Ubermobile

[PartsAncient]

5 hours ago, PartsAncient said:

A fabulous and extremely comprehensive 72 page highly illustrated article on Dagmar Automobiles was written by the late Keith Marvin and featured in Vol. X, No. 1  February 1960 of The Upper Hudson Valley Automobilist. I have a copy and nearly every issue on that clubs publications.

These pictures are from that article:

 

[wayne sheldon]

The problem with those color samples, is that yes the colors were all available. However, many of those colors were not generally used as the primary color of a vehicle! Several of the colors were usually used as trim accents, pinstripes, or other highlights. Light colors were often used inside luggage trunks (I have seen several from pre-automotive days). Wheels and undercarriages were sometimes painted light colors under dark coaches. Lighter colors were also often used in sign painting!

Black and white photographs cannot give us an accurate representation of actual colors. But they do give us a good basis for brightness and to a lesser extent tone.

 

There were ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. Light colored cars a hundred years ago, and light colored horse drawn carriages I am sure going back way before photography. Studying era photographs is the best way we have to get a feel for how cars and carriages were generally painted.

 

10 minutes ago, PartsAncient said:

These pictures are from that article:

 

I would like to read that article! I know the Dagmar was a very unusual car, and would expect some unusual colors on them. I would sure love to see those cars the way they were when built.

[58L-Y8]

Those military-style fenders had a brief period of popularity following WWI.  The Locomobile General Pershing had featured those style fenders, perhaps that was the trendsetter.   Dagmar styling was somewhat cartoonish, though instantly recognizable.     More than anything else, the Dagmar was a vanity project for Mathis P. Moller, supported by the taxi production.   Like the Roamer, they were selling the sizzle rather than the steak: an ordinary assembled car chassis with a stylish, upscale body...and commensurate price to go with it.    M.P. Moller Motor Co. had so many different nameplates for their taxis, it must have been confusing what they were building on any given day. 

[pkhammer]

And let's not forget the Pope-Tribune. I find the Pope Manufacturing Company quite convoluted what with the Pope-Hartford, Pope Robinson, Pope-Toledo, Pope-Tribune and Pope-Waverly all part of the same company.

Pope-Tribune manufactured in Hagerstown.

[trimacar]

My best buddy here just reminded me, don’t forget the Crawford, made in Hagerstown Md…..

[pkhammer]

Apparently this was the precursor to the Dagmar? Do you know if any examples exist?

[8E45E]

3 hours ago, pkhammer said:

And let's not forget the Pope-Tribune. I find the Pope Manufacturing Company quite convoluted what with the Pope-Hartford, Pope Robinson, Pope-Toledo, Pope-Tribune and Pope-Waverly all part of the same company.

Pope-Tribune manufactured in Hagerstown.

VERY annoying display set up by amateur museum staff. 

 

The stand with huge signboard, the lectern with a small piece of paper on top, and the sign on the car thoroughly blocks the view of the car from nearly all angles, especially places one may want to see, such as the dashboard which would normally be visible.  All those signs, etc, should be off to one side.

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

2 hours ago, trimacar said:

My best buddy here just reminded me, don’t forget the Crawford, made in Hagerstown Md…..

The spec's for the Crawford 6-70 and the Dagmar 6-70 are identical.  The latter was much more stylish.

[Graham Man]

Those colors are horrible by any standard, you could double the value with real period correct colors... frame color should match the wheels and accent the car....unless it is a taxi or restored in the 1980's

 

 

The only optional color Graham had every year on every model was black, including wheels.