ID this flathead 6 with 2 cylinder heads

[Vitalyi]

Greetings from distant Russia.I immediately apologize for writing through a translator. This engine was found during the excavations of the 1941 war, but no one in our country and Europe can determine it. Please help me understand on which car it could be installed ? Thank you very much!

Edited November 14, 2021 by Vitalyi (see edit history)

[alsancle]

I was going to say German, then I saw the English writing. That is actually a bit unique and may help someone identify the block. Otherwise to me it looks like anyone of hundreds of flat head sixes made prior to World War II

[1912Staver]

Possibly from a U.S. produced truck ? Or even a tractor ?  I think quite a few were sold in Europe / Russia in the 1920's and 30's.

Edited November 14, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[F&J]

maybe change the thread title to "ID this flathead 6 with 2 cylinder heads"

[Vitalyi]

6 minutes ago, F&J said:

возможно, измените название резьбы на "ИДЕНТИФИЦИРУЙТЕ эту плоскую головку 6 с 2 головками цилиндров".

Thanks ! I changed the topic name

[keiser31]

1930 or so Pontiac?

Edited November 14, 2021 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

Maybe a 1931 Ponti?  But casting ribs at the bottom not 100% the same

If a Ponti how it got to Russia would be interesting

 

 

[keiser31]

1 hour ago, Vitalyi said:

Greetings from distant Russia.I immediately apologize for writing through a translator. This engine was found during the excavations of the 1941 war, but no one in our country and Europe can determine it. Please help me understand on which car it could be installed ? Thank you very much!

Been in the dirt for a while....

[Vitalyi]

8 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

Какое-то время пролежал в грязи....

Yes, you're right, it was dug out of the ground. It was located at a depth of 1 meter, in a caponier. There were repair military bases there in 1941. He lay there for 80 years until we found him. The engine may have arrived with German troops from Europe, the equipment was knocked out, and the remaining whole parts were evacuated by Soviet troops for repair. The engine was not useful and it was left in position.

[Bloo]

It's a Pontiac.

[Vitalyi]

3 minutes ago, Bloo said:

It's a Pontiac.

And can you attach a photo of the car in which this engine was standing ?

[keiser31]

1 minute ago, Vitalyi said:

And can you attach a photo of the car in which this engine was standing ?

 

[Vitalyi]

3 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

 

thanks !

[1939_Buick]

More likely a GMC truck, fitted with a Ponti Engine.  How that got to Russia lost in time

https://ehive.com/collections/5693/objects/505932/1930-gmc-t19b-truck

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_(automobile)

Quote

Beginning in 1928, GMCs used Pontiac's 186 cu in six-cylinder engines in their lighter trucks.^[14] Medium-duty trucks relied on Oldsmobile straight-6 engines, while the heaviest trucks used GMC's own "Standard Big Brute" engine.^[14] F

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_straight-6_engine#186
 

Quote

 

"Split Head" Six

186

In the 1920s Oakland Motor Car engineers designed an all new engine for their "companion" make, the Pontiac, that was introduced in 1926. It was a side-valve design with a one piece cast iron block with three main bearings. An unusual feature was that it had two separate cylinder heads that each covered three cylinders. The ignition distributor was mounted on top of the block in the gap between the heads. This engine was also used in GMC's T-10 and T-11 (their two lightest trucks) beginning in 1928.[1] Development of the engine shared characteristics with the Oldsmobile Straight-6 engine, as GM worked together to develop the engine for Pontiac combined with the resources of GM-Northway Motor and Manufacturing Division.

This engine displaced 186.7 cu in (3.1 L) with a bore and stroke of 3.25 in × 3.75 in (82.6 mm × 95.3 mm) and was rated at 40 hp (30 kW; 41 PS) at 2400 rpm when it was introduced. The compression ratio was 4.8:1.[2]

200

In 1929, the "split head" Pontiac six was increased in displacement to 200 cu in (3.3 L). The horsepower rating increased to 60 hp (45 kW; 61 PS) @ 3000 rpm. Compression was increased slightly to 4.9:1.[2] The "split-head" six was discontinued by Pontiac at the end of the 1932 model year. Pontiac offered only eight-cylinder engines during 1933 and 1934.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[Bloo]

According to the Standard Catalog of American Cars, 3rd Edition (Kimes/Clark), the engine number P546304 makes it a 1929-1/2 200c.i. Pontiac "Big Six".

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Guest]

The casting mark in the 6th photo is "Ferro"  for Ferro Machine and Foundry Company. They were supplying blocks to GM in the twenties along with Saginaw Products Company.

 

Ferro operated as both a contract foundry & an engine manufacturer. The V8 they supplied to Scripps Booth in the teens was one of the first monobloc V8s.

 

Attached is the casting mark on the cylinder block of my 1911 Regal.

[Vitalyi]

Thank you very much to everyone ! You have told so much useful information about this engine in a few hours.

[drwatson]

Engine number "P546304"was built in 1930 according to Grace Brigham's USA Cars Serial number Book. 

(page attached).

The "P" might refer to the factory, "Pontiac, Michigan".

Good Luck with it.

[nzcarnerd]

22 hours ago, drwatson said:

Engine number "P546304"was built in 1930 according to Grace Brigham's USA Cars Serial number Book. 

(page attached).

The "P" might refer to the factory, "Pontiac, Michigan".

Good Luck with it.

 

I have my copy of that book in front of me. The 6-17 for 1927 has to be a typo.

 

It seems the engine numbers may all start with P. The same engine was used in certain GMC trucks but I don't know what prefix they used.

 

From a look at the 1926 numbers I have the cars were not 'matching numbers' - although I guess it is possible there had been an engine change at some time. 

 

The first two pics are from a body-less parts chassis - engine P32667, US assembled chassis 31802-27. That engine has suffered frost cracking at some time which has obscured the casting date.

 

 

 

The second one is our disc wheeled 'running' chassis (currently 'hors de combat' due to a broken axle), which was probably sold as a '27, event though the parts are dated 1926. (The radiator shells are dated as well, and the radiator tanks are dated to the month.)

 

Engine number P64064, chassis is hand stamped by the local assembler  XHP1113-27, engine casting date I 10 8 which I think is 10 August 1926, cast by Ferro

 

 

[Walt G]

this is outstanding effort and research and none of it done to answer the question at the convenient/easy touch of a button but by looking it up on a printed page for the details. Of course now that it is here on the forums that touch of a button information is now possible.....................

 

[3macboys]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

this is outstanding effort and research and none of it done to answer the question at the convenient/easy touch of a button but by looking it up on a printed page for the details. Of course now that it is here on the forums that touch of a button information is now possible.....................

 

Walt,

 

There's one problem with those printed pages, I pick up a book to look something up and then get captivated by what follows and all of a sudden an hour or more has gone by and I've completely lost interest in what I was doing before I picked the book up!  Just happened to me the other day, I was cleaning stuff up and came across some writings of my step - great grandfather (I was lucky enough to actually know all but one of my great grandparents) and discovered that he had served in The Great War from the onset.  The cleaning was delayed by a day.  

 

Don  

[Walt G]

The cleaning was delayed by a day , but your life and memories will be forever enhanced for the rest of your life.

[KURTRUK]

On 11/19/2021 at 4:02 PM, 3macboys said:

Walt,

 

There's one problem with those printed pages, I pick up a book to look something up and then get captivated by what follows and all of a sudden an hour or more has gone by and I've completely lost interest in what I was doing before I picked the book up!  Just happened to me the other day, I was cleaning stuff up and came across some writings of my step - great grandfather (I was lucky enough to actually know all but one of my great grandparents) and discovered that he had served in The Great War from the onset.  The cleaning was delayed by a day.  

 

Don  

I had the same problem growing up:  Grab a volume of the World Book Encyclopedia off the shelf for some school subject, started on page 1 instead of flipping to the topic I needed to look at.  A few hours later...assignment not done. 

[Uptowndodge]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:45 AM, keiser31 said:

1930 or so Pontiac?

Keiser comes through again, I wish I had 1/4 of his knowledge. When I need  info and just can’t find any on my cars, I cut out the middle man and go strait to the Man. Thanks Mr. Keiser 

[Johnny Lightning]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:34 PM, KURTRUK said:

I had the same problem growing up:  Grab a volume of the World Book Encyclopedia off the shelf for some school subject, started on page 1 instead of flipping to the topic I needed to look at.  A few hours later...assignment not done. 

But the objective was accomplished, you learned something.   Maybe not about the subject you were looking for and the results were likely not reflected in your grade, but the objective of learning something was achieved nonetheless.