Guess the adjusters estimate to fix damage - 1938 Studebaker is settled

[MarkV]

6 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

I made a proposal to Hagerty that reduces their exposure by $5500 if I did not buy the car back or by $1100 if I do buy the car back. The total damages of $26700 minus the $20,000 for the parts car ($16,000 to purchase and $4,000 markup) plus what I would spend on parts $2600 .

I will release them from any other damages found in repairing the car so they do not have any more exposure.  I get enough to repair the car completely and a clean title. They get a reduced cost and less state required paper work and hassle to get rid of the car at auction.  I believe this is a fair settlement and hope they do too.

dave s 

they won’t do that. I tried that same course with my imperial when it was damaged by a careless neighbor while it was parked. The insurance insisted the entire car be repainted. They legally had to do the full payout or no payout by state law. I took it and got the salvage title. Sold the car to a guy a month ago who’s dad had one just like it and he fell in love with it, he had no reservations purchasing a salvage title vehicle as I had all the communications and even video of what happened.  
 

Haggerty doesn’t care about paperwork it is a couple mouse clicks linked to the software for the payout that gets sent to your dmv. Regardless if you release them from repairs they are still legally on the hook for extra up to your policy limit that’s why they just do these full payouts on these old cars. 
 

salvage titles don’t really matter as long as there was no frame damage. Inevitably lots of old cars will get them due to situations like yours and mine. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by MarkV (see edit history)

[edinmass]

It’s interesting that having no insurance may have been a better option than having coverage. 🤔

[60FlatTop]

22 minutes ago, edinmass said:

It’s interesting that having no insurance may have been a better option than having coverage. 🤔

I have a large umbrella policy that I would only use for the big hit. The rest I will take care of myself. That plan has been in place for a long time.

 

Remember when you were a kid and the principal said things were going on your permanent record. Keep a low profile and avoid demanding your rights. If nothing else it saves energy.

[SC38dls]

I talked with the agent handling the claim after she received my proposal. She said she will get back to me after the manager reviews it. She did comment they do "structured settlements" so this must be reviewed by management for approval.  I can only hope common sense prevails in the insurance world. I may be dreaming but I am hopeful.

dave s 

[Graham Man]

Hagerty has a $1 buy back clause you can add for about the same money.  I spent 10 years trying to find a rear bumper for my 1933 Graham...  The only reason I insure my cars is in case someone gets hurt, I just plan on keeping the car no mater what the damage.

 

How did the front bumper not get damaged?  Guessing the cars were stick together?

 

Sorry for your loss, but lots of steel in that car she will look great again soon.

 

Please let us know how it turns out, I have had Hagerty for about 5 years, but no claims.

 

[wayne sheldon]

I can't read this kind of stuff too much. My blood is already boiling too much every day. But I decided to punish myself and catch up because I care about forum members and their troubles. I am really hoping for a reasonable settlement for your sake.

 

Seriously, over the years, I have several times, usually with model Ts, heavily insured them for liability, but not covered them comp or collision. The thing with a model T however, is that one almost cannot be destroyed. Other than the very early brass cars, there isn't a part on them that I cannot replace for just a few dollars. I have enough parts to put together two or three more than I ever hope to. The big downside is that if someone else is at fault, I get stuck with fighting their insurance company myself. Almost anything that could be damaged, I can fix myself.

The better cars I had, I did cover the cars more thoroughly. Fortunately, never had a serious claim. 

 

That whole $16,000 to $20,000 for a parts car has got to be one of the dumbest things I ever heard of! The odds of a realistic parts car even having the parts your car will need are about up there with winning the state lottery! Parts cars are for replacement mechanical pieces, that special bracket somebody removed and lost ten years before, and maybe a section of the trunk where someone fifty years ago let a battery sit and leak. When the pieces your car actually needs have already been found? 

 

I hate the whole 'salvage title' thing. Far and away one of the best examples of a good idea ruined by incompetent or corrupt government. The ORIGINAL idea behind 'salvage titles' was for cars that had been significantly damaged in a way to possess a safety risk into the future. Things like significant frame or suspension damage that cannot be repaired back to 100 percent. Repairs may be okay for now, but in the future the frame or suspension could begin to crack or buckle. Then they turned it into dollars and formulas that were more money grabs than anything to do with safety.

Twenty some years ago, I saw a top end model big one-ton dually pickup only a few months old that had hit a concrete barrier low enough that the entire left side of the front suspension was literally ripped out of the frame. Frame was twisted, chunks of metal ripped away. No way this frame and suspension can be made like new again. Total repairs were to be only about twenty percent of the value of the truck. No salvage title.

 

However. It is what it is. My advice, like others here. Make the best and easiest deal you can. If you can get it without the salvage title? So much the better. IF a salvage title is basically part of the deal? I would grumble about it, and go with it anyway. 

Go ahead and fix the car. It doesn't look that bad or difficult. Oh the things I have fixed that were SO much worse! When done, I think you will be glad that you fixed it! I think if you don't fix it, you will come to regret having not fixed it.

 

I wish I were a lot closer to you. I think I would really enjoy spending a couple afternoons pushing and pulling those fenders and other things back to straight. You should see the 1915 model T fenders I straightened a couple years ago. Okay, so my fenders aren't perfect. But they were considered unrestorable when I got them!

[SC38dls]

Wayne, Your comments express my feelings very well, thank you. I plan to fix the car no matter what the insurance company does as long as they don't make the title a "PARTS ONLY SALVAGE" title.  That type title cannot be insured in SC and you can't even get antique plates for one.  I drive this car three or four times a week and want to continue doing that.  I have found the left fender and the grille. The right fender is a possibility my brother may have a lead on. I also have been fortunate enough to have had a few forum members going to HERSEY say they will keep an eye out for one.  If I do find one I know I can have this taken apart and reassembled in a long weekend or sooner. Painting will of course take time and I will have that done before reassembly most likely.  The 38 will be back on the road ASAP but I would like to explore all possible ways to avoid a salvage title before saying ok to the ridiculousness of the Hagerty estimate and parts car expense.  It's hard to believe an insurance company would be willing to spend more money at a bad outcome for everyone than to settle a case that benefits all in positive ways. I thought that was what "insurance" meant when I purchased it. Dummy me. Greed over satisfaction is the corporate norm no matter what they advertise. 

dave s 

[dibarlaw]

This is the sticking point I have with the Erie claim I have for the 1937 Buick. They have finally come up with the amount I asked for originally (current #3 condition valuation). But insist on a $2,500 Buy-back. With me titleing it to them. Which then would place it in the salvage category.

[Walt G]

I am sure Insurance companies have their "set ways" they feel that they deal with customers/clients/? and they are right because it is their business BUT when it comes to folks like us collector types and you are dealing with an "antique" the difficulty they are giving the person that has insured with them for years/decades does not sit well nor is it deserved . SO what kind of BAD PR are they getting from all the thousands of people reading this who will now 1) doubt their worth dealing with their attitude 2) change insurance companies 3) spread the Bad word of how they were treated ............. What kind of GREAT PR would they have received if they had not made things so stressful ?

Will they hear about it at flea markets where they are set up to try to gain favor for their company ?  My guess is yes, I feel for the employees who will have to deal with this and hear the people putting down the way the company responded......................

[60FlatTop]

Sometimes the business professionals providing service to me seem a little distant from the niche I belong to.

 

[dibarlaw]

Walt:

 The next higher up in the Erie insurance food chain called me today and sited that it was not just their policy about the buy back but PA. insurance laws. Can anyone confirm? I will ask my regular insurer for home and modern auto (State Farm). He also was oblivious about the 10 years of reciepts and invoices I scanned and sent to their claims adjuster. Close to $25,000. The adjuster indicated that the claims supervisors would not look at any invoices over a year old.

 On another insurance note. A good buddy of mine is going through the 7 circles of hell with his homeowners insurer. They had a waterline break on the ice maker on their refridgerator. They were away for 2 weeks before it was discovered. Much water damage to floors base of walls basement, books on bookcase in basement etc. etc....The reclamation company was highered by the insurance co. and set to work demolishing walls. Constant roar of dehumidification equipment and doing mold abatement. Then the insurance company has denied their claim including mold abatement.

 I am going to my State Farm agent tomorrow for a review of my policy!

Edited September 16, 2021 by dibarlaw (see edit history)

[MarkV]

15 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Walt:

 The next higher up in the Erie insurance food chain called me today and sited that it was not just their policy about the buy back but PA. insurance laws. Can anyone confirm? I will ask my regular insurer for home and modern auto (State Farm). He also was oblivious about the 10 years of reciepts and invoices I scanned and sent to their claims adjuster. Close to $25,000. The adjuster indicated that the claims supervisors would not look at any invoices over a year old.

 On another insurance note. A good buddy of mine is going through the 7 circles of hell with his homeowners insurer. They had a waterline break on the ice maker on their refridgerator. They were away for 2 weeks before it was discovered. Much water damage to floors base of walls basement, books on bookcase in basement etc. etc....The reclamation company was highered by the insurance co. and set to work demolishing walls. Constant roar of dehumidification equipment and doing mold abatement. Then the insurance company has denied their claim including mold abatement.

 I am going to my State Farm agent tomorrow for a review of my policy!

your friend needs to hire a public adjuster or attorney immediately on that house claim. Last year my wife and I about four weeks after we came home with our daughter noticed water coming up through the raised floor. No water lines are under there but it appears water came from potentially the washer or the dishwasher or both end went up under the floor.

I called the insurance thinking they would just cut out the floor etc. no they gutted the kitchen a bathroom laundry room etc. we had to move out because of it for 6 months my daughter was a premature newborn and initially they wanted us to stay in a house that 1/3 was destroyed and they were doing asbestos and lead remediation. Did I also mention their remediation team hacked away at the walls and destroyed and damaged my wiring, etc? 
 

damages were about 65k 

insurance tried to pay out 14k

our building code states when walls are torn out everything (wiring etc) has to be brought to current code. I had code upgrade on the policy and the best replacement policy as well (the one that doesn’t depreciate) they didn’t want to honor that or anything else. Then two weeks later after they gave me $13k they sent a letter denying everything else.

their last ditch thing was to put me in front of their special investigations unit for questioning me after I threatened a lawsuit with a certified letter to the president of the company. Because “it was unusual we were out of the house for so long”  and that I knew so much about building code (yes I can read!!) 

 

really? There was a pandemic raging, plus the holidays and shortages (it took four weeks to get the right breakers)  and it took 15 weeks to get the cabinets in and another eight to get them installed as the installer came down with covid and their workers quit to claim unemployment and one died. Let alone scheduling the electrician to rewire 1/3 of our house and install a sub panel to bring it up to code, plumber (for gas and sewer), plaster guys, paint and floor. 

 

did they really think I wanted to have this happen during a pandemic with a premature newborn and a sick wife? I owned the house for years and the kitchen was redone just a couple of years before.

 

They ended up paying for everything except the sewer line replacement under the kitchen (which I did out of precaution on my own) I find that many insurance people are morons, and think the public is scamming them yet they are the scammers low balling claims by tens of thousands and fine print or denying claims,  they don’t think, and cause lots of misery. The bigger the claim the worse it is. If you don’t want to insure don’t write the policy. Their final gimmick this year was to raise the premium by $300 and want it paid in one payment which I did. I called them out on it and they said the one payment thing was a ‘clerical error’

 

 Never go it alone on big house claims never. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by MarkV (see edit history)

[stutzl6]

YOU NEED TO CALL HAGERTY INS. AND ASK FOR THE SECRETARY OF THE CHEIEF EXECTIVE  OFFICER NAME McKEEL HAGERTY  AND TELL HER  HOW YOU WERE TREATED. DO NOT ASK FOR  McKEEL HAGERTY

[SC38dls]

It is over!!!  Hagerty just sent me a letter agreeing to my proposal for settlement and there will not be any title changes.  It just took time and being polite to the agents giving them time to work out the details.  I must say I am surprised this has happened and appreciate the fact Hagerty listened to my side of the story.  I believe they trul;y want to keep these old cars on the road after this transaction.  I suggest anyone that finds themselves in this situation to state your case in clear straight forward detailed language. Be patient as the corporate machine moves slowly and maybe you can have the same result.  Thank you Hagerty for living up to your advertising. Now I have to go to the garage and start taking the parts off the car!  I get to have garage fun again!  I will start a thread on the repairs and post pics as it gets done. 

dave s  

Edited September 16, 2021 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Dave, So glad to hear things worked out in your favor. And as autumn is starting should give you a nice little freshen up project to get you through the winter. Spring you will have a newly freshened up ride!

[dalef62]

Not to be nosey but what was the final figures if you want to tell?

[39BuickEight]

This is great to hear!  

[Walt G]

After putting up with all the agony that you had to - the damage, to not only your car but to your faith in the system for a fair deal to see your car back to the way it was with out a lot of excuses , the stress of having to cope with the process that the insurance companies dictate and none of us are aware of really because for decades we never ever make a claim ( in my case I have been paying antique car insurance with no claims since 1964) . Well this teaches us all a lesson, you get what you pay for but not without a lot of foot dragging, and rhetoric . Beware everyone !!!!!  You may get what you pay for but obviously not without a lot of trauma.

[wayne sheldon]

Dave S, I am so pleased to hear this! Hopefully, smooth sailing over the next several months, and you can look forward to springtime in your freshened up and wonderful antique Studebaker!

[SC38dls]

They settled with my proposal so I will receive $9500. This is $1000 less than what I would have gotten if I took the salvage title and the guaranteed amount less the buy back amount. I’m happy as they basically took their estimate minus the parts car and markup plus my parts cost. This amount is below the 75% figure the state requires the car to be a total salvage. I’m happy as I feel a clean title is worth the thousand dollars. 
dave s 

[TAKerry]

Dave, that sounds fair and equitable. Just a thought and not trying to beat a dead horse, but it looks like because of youre doing you saved the ins. co. money. In all likely hood when you're renewal comes around they will probably drop or at least increase your premium. They should give you a discount!!

[SC38dls]

They said “this will not effect your policy”. I’m sure they mean for the current term and not future policies. I expect an increase as they need to make a profit and that is going to take many years of my premium to make up. They don’t consider the years I’ve already paid them or of course the thousands of other policy holders payments that never had a claim when they look at the results from this accident. That’s ok they were fair to me in the long run, it just took a little persuasive nudge to get them to see it properly. I will renew if they let me. 
dave s