1963 project

[protrash63]

3 hours ago, protrash63 said:

 Well, been working quite a lot lately but put in some quality time lately wrenching on my various projects. Rebuilt the front suspension on my 64 Suburban with new control arms and tie rods, SSBC rotors and yet to be installed Wilwood twin puck calipers...ran outta gas on the calipers after wrestling the suspension parts.

 

So, in between the previously mentioned work I keep tearing into little things on the Riviera. Dove into the engine as it was really bugging me and I wanted to find out whats going on and , YEP, we found it!!

LOL!!!  

 

Feel free to speculate what causes this!! 

  If you look to the left of the 'lowest' broken piece of cam ahead of the journal you can see a glint of light off the rod piece or cap  under the cam. First thing I saw once I got the cam outta the way.

[RivNut]

Contact @tenugent and ask him about installing a wet sleeve in your block.  He saved his 63s 425 which had thrown a rod through the block.

[gungeey]

If youre lucky the prior owner shut it off quickly as the damage was happening, then gave up on the project (hence how it ended up in the desert).

Usually there would be more damage than what were looking at. You might be lucky: dismantle, inspect, if it's good by eye have a machine shop test it.

 

Good luck

 

 

 

[protrash63]

On 9/2/2021 at 5:10 AM, gungeey said:

If youre lucky the prior owner shut it off quickly as the damage was happening, then gave up on the project (hence how it ended up in the desert).

Usually there would be more damage than what were looking at. You might be lucky: dismantle, inspect, if it's good by eye have a machine shop test it.

 

Good luck

 

 

 

........no such luck. The #3 rod cap came loose/bolt broke. The rod is jammed in the #4 bore with the cap visible. Bearings were in the pan, oil gallery was taken out along with the bottom of the #3 cylinder to the inboard side.  

 

What sucks is there was a 401 for sale when I bought this thing and I didnt want to pick up another engine when I hadn't had time to look this one over. Kinda regretting that now, but it will work itself out in the end. 

 

Anybody willing to pop for the 3400 dollar 425 core on Evil bay?  LOL  Dont think I'm there yet.

Edited September 6, 2021 by protrash63 (see edit history)

[steelman]

Before you decide on another engine, you have to decide if you are keeping the Dynaflow. Cranks in 64-66 are different in the rear. These can be made to work, but not a straight forward swap as you would think. Do some research, later nails can be made to work, but you need to know the pitfalls of each. Basically need a 63 crank to work with the Dynaflow without spacers and buttons.

[JDRiv]

I've been thinking it's time for my parts car to find a new home.   She blows blue smoke when you get on it but otherwise runs pretty well.   I'll send a PM.

[protrash63]

1 hour ago, steelman said:

Before you decide on another engine, you have to decide if you are keeping the Dynaflow. Cranks in 64-66 are different in the rear. These can be made to work, but not a straight forward swap as you would think. Do some research, later nails can be made to work, but you need to know the pitfalls of each. Basically need a 63 crank to work with the Dynaflow without spacers and buttons.

   Im aware of this...I have a 200-4r from another vehicle that may get put to use in this eventually. I believe the adapter kits solve most of these fitment issues.  I researched Rivs for about a year and understand the many pitfalls of all the rear steer, oil pan, trans, engine swap x-member swap scenarios... thanks for the reminder. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by protrash63 (see edit history)

[protrash63]

1 hour ago, JDRiv said:

I've been thinking it's time for my parts car to find a new home.   She blows blue smoke when you get on it but otherwise runs pretty well.   I'll send a PM.

PM sent, thank you.

[protrash63]

Well, no place for broken engines......starting to tear stuff apart and pretty amazed at how easily everything is coming apart, my back included!  Im not used to hanging over engines I guess. Here we are so far....

 

 

[protrash63]

........I pulled the fuel pump out last nite and the arm stayed inside the housing/waterpump area. I thought 'it must be a Buick thing' until I pulled on it hard. Found it broke the arm when it ground to a halt. New one for me!!

[RivNut]

Sometimes pulling an engine is made easy by attaching a lifting plate to the intake manifold after removing the carburetor.  Engines in 1963 Riviera’s were painted silver. Look at the numbers stamped into the flat surface of the top of the block where the lifter cover was bolted on. See if the numbers on the right match your VIN.

Edited September 14, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history)

[RivNut]

20 minutes ago, protrash63 said:

Well, no place for broken engines......starting to tear stuff apart and pretty amazed at how easily everything is coming apart, my back included!  Im not used to hanging over engines I guess. Here we are so far....

 

 

Can you post a picture of the Fisher Data plate?  What I see in your engine compartment leads me to believe that this is a very early production vehicle.

[protrash63]

Hey Riv, the engine matches the vin. I checked that awhile ago and some of the disappointment about the engine was that it was junk. Thought it would be nice to keep the family together! 😄  The engine was originally red or orange...it showed up thru the blue paint when I blasted the carb. There is red overspray on the trans bellhousing area. No sign of the blk/silver combo.

 

Thought I did post that plate on the first page...is there another?

 

I will add that I believe that the ac components have been changed at some point; just had that feeling???

Edited September 14, 2021 by protrash63 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

You did post it, my bad. 

[protrash63]

Continuing to tear this thing apart cuz doing that is basically free!  LOL  Have the drivetrain freed up from the chassis and got the exhaust unbolted last night. Car has a newish idler arm with Jamco cast in it. Cool!  Only ate a dozen or so rat turds while crawling around under it. More updates soon.

[TexRiv_63]

1 hour ago, protrash63 said:

 Only ate a dozen or so rat turds while crawling around under it. More updates soon.

You need an industrial strength Shop-Vac!!

[protrash63]

2 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

You need an industrial strength Shop-Vac!!

 I pressure washed it when I dragged it home but the stuff is in the frame rails and stuck in corners and on top of the trans x member...then you start banging on things with the impact and some big fans blowing.....gets ugly!!

 

On another note, these kits are getting hard to find!  I upgrade all my vehicles braking systems. Let me know what ms/cyl you've used if you have gone to the dual circuit system.

[protrash63]

Ok, one more pic jus cuz its cool...we like cars, right?

[RivNut]

Hope you’re wearing a good protective masks while encountering those rodent turds.

[protrash63]

12 hours ago, RivNut said:

Hope you’re wearing a good protective masks while encountering those rodent turds.

 Mostly using the force and under car ninja-like skills. 😎

 

Some interesting updates coming soon....

[protrash63]

Well, first of all Id like to thank JDriv  for contacting me about his parts car. Super nice guy and a great story about how he's kept the car rollin'. When I discovered the engine torn up I also posted a wanted ad on the local Craigslist and within days of JDriv I got a response on C/L which I thought was a long shot. Well, about one mile from my house a guy had a 66 wildcat with a 65 401 and switch pitch ST400 sitting in it. The engine turns but dont know much beyond that. Brought it home and spent the day trying to clean it up for the discriminating viewers on this forum. 6 cans of engine degreaser, gallon of purple power, and numerous blasts with the pressure washer we are left with this mess.  Not sure what direction this will take but now I have some options.

[XframeFX]

2 hours ago, protrash63 said:

about one mile from my house a guy had a 66 wildcat with a 65 401 and switch pitch ST400 sitting in it

Go out and buy a lottery ticket, the stars are aligned in your favour! Rebuildable Nailheads are a rare find these days and desirable. And, a switch-pitch TH400 too!

Life just got easier on this project.

[powerage]

That's a great score! Worth eating turds for any day!!

[protrash63]

  I just got done reading the power steering gear box rebuild thread and it played in nicely with this decision.  I decided I wanted to get the suspension in order first because having a good stance is important to me and then motivates me to keep pushing things. Also, having multiple projects going sometimes I just need to save time. So, with that in mind and the fact that rear suspension bushings are 75bucks apiece, tear out and recondition old trailing arms, etc...remove and press in bushings, reassemble, I went with the BCFab link kit.....took awhile to get but it is a beauty.  It is made for air ride but I will use it for springs....shouldnt be hard to come up with a mounting solution.  So check it out....

[protrash63]

Some of the adjustability.

[protrash63]

Follow up to the previous posts. As suspected the rear has seen some abuse. When I got the car the panhard was hanging and bent...I grabbed another outta the junk yard and slapped it in to straighten up the car. Had to use a porta power to push the body over enough to get it in so I was thinking the trailing arms were done.....yep, pretty beat. Got the rear suspension cleared out, though.

Edited September 25, 2021 by protrash63 (see edit history)

[protrash63]

Unfortunately the brakes have been run into the rivets...I would like to clean up those drums if possible but dont have specs on them. I need to get the manuals for this car but so far all of this stuff has been pretty easy to take apart.  Struggled to yank the drums off but am now working on the front as well.

[EmTee]

4 minutes ago, protrash63 said:

o I was thinking the trailing arms were done.....yep, pretty beat.

 

Probably damaged by improper jacking and/or towing sometime in the past...

[EmTee]

The max diameter is usually cast onto the front of the drum, near the outer circumference.

[protrash63]

1 minute ago, EmTee said:

 

Probably damaged by improper jacking and/or towing sometime in the past...

When I'm out in the shop I'll get a pic of the old panhard.....lol.

[protrash63]

  Ok, and if you dont think its dangerous thrills, chills and spills working on this thing you are WRONG!! lol  Between dodging turds and sweeping after about every two parts coming off we see that I may not be the only victim. Wedged in between the frame and the floor pan I found this guy....he didnt make it with his run in with the Riv.

 

Maybe this one is supposed to be a rat rod?

[EmTee]

Baby pterodactyl...? 

[MikeJS]

My son recently took ownership of his grandfathers "vintage" 1996 Honda Accord, with less the 70K miles it's in great shape. He works in downtown Vancouver and after a shift at work he was having major problems starting his car . Towed it to a shop only to find a dead rat entwined in the belts after lunching on some electrical cables. What a mess, 

 

At least the 'baby pterodactyl' in the above appeared to die a peaceful death...

 

Sorry for the slightly OT post, good luck in the restoring the ol' 'rat rod...😊

 

[XframeFX]

On 9/23/2021 at 9:02 PM, protrash63 said:

rear suspension bushings are 75bucks apiece

I purchased a set of 6 bushings early this year. Not going to disclose what the landed cost was here north of the border, just that it was outrageous!

On 9/23/2021 at 9:02 PM, protrash63 said:

I went with the BCFab link ki

I haven't heard of this option. Thanks for sharing, it helps us all.

I replaced my track-bar (panhard rod) bushings a couple of weeks ago. A significant improvement! So much so, I'm considering holding off on that Bilstein shock absorber purchase.

Old bushings were shot:

[protrash63]

16 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

I purchased a set of 6 bushings early this year. Not going to disclose what the landed cost was here north of the border, just that it was outrageous!

I haven't heard of this option. Thanks for sharing, it helps us all.

I replaced my track-bar (panhard rod) bushings a couple of weeks ago. A significant improvement! So much so, I'm considering holding off on that Bilstein shock absorber purchase.

Old bushings were shot:

Hahaha!!  I've got some of the 'quick change' bushings too....I think one was laying on the pile of suspension parts in the previous post.

 

Panhard is important!  Ive done four of the 60's Chevy trucks and they all got replacement panhards. I never messed with the trailing arm bushings up on the frame and they all tracked well with a nice tite panhard. Probably what you needed....well, obviously!!   😄

Edited September 25, 2021 by protrash63 (see edit history)

[telriv]

protrash63,

 

     This stock drum diameter both front & rear are 12".  Standard oversize is .060" but can go as far as .090".  BUT at .090" the shoes need to be arched to the dums.

 

Tom T.

[protrash63]

3 minutes ago, telriv said:

protrash63,

 

     This stock drum diameter both front & rear are 12".  Standard oversize is .060" but can go as far as .090".  BUT at .090" the shoes need to be arched to the dums.

 

Tom T.

Thank you sir!!

[60FlatTop]

Those bushings are easy to duplicate. All you need is Bobo the mechanic to put in a new set of shocks or springs. They disconnect the rear shocks and let the rearend swing all the way down twisting those bushings to limits that weren't even intended 50 years ago. On the spring job a helper will grab the drum and pull it down even farther to squeeze the spring in. First wrecking one side, then the other. While the track bar is being twisted all the rear control arms are getting the same abuse.

 

I am thinking about the guy who says "I need a set of GS springs to get the right stance and make my car handle better". They are out there.

 

[protrash63]

8 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Those bushings are easy to duplicate. All you need is Bobo the mechanic to put in a new set of shocks or springs. They disconnect the rear shocks and let the rearend swing all the way down twisting those bushings to limits that weren't even intended 50 years ago. On the spring job a helper will grab the drum and pull it down even farther to squeeze the spring in. First wrecking one side, then the other. While the track bar is being twisted all the rear control arms are getting the same abuse.

 

I am thinking about the guy who says "I need a set of GS springs to get the right stance and make my car handle better". They are out there.

 

Well here's one that was installed perfectly!!   Until it wasnt.

Edited September 26, 2021 by protrash63 (see edit history)

[protrash63]

OK............thought I would get further today but decided I had to do some cleaning and planning on all the parts that were coming off the car.  Made some good progress and now I have to get it to turn the corner and go back together so I can set it down and pull the engine. Where am I gonna put the engine and trans???? One thing that has to be considered when you get into these things is room for the parts. Im no create a spread sheet type guy but some thought sure helps or it becomes overwhelming.  Probably get the rest of it apart tomorrow.