1963 project

[protrash63]

19 hours ago, jsgun said:

Enjoying this build, thanks for posting pics and descriptions. I was looking at the QA1, interesting that the adjustment knob gets buried like that. I've been also looking at Viking dual adjustable shocks too, I suspect the adjuster gets buried too.

 

The vent window rubber is a PIA on the driver's side. I bought from a reputable company, and the left vent rubber took a lot of trimming to fit. The right just fell into place with no trimming needed. I don't think my vent frame was damaged in any way, so I suspect the mold isn't that great for the driver's side rubber. The rest of the weather stripping went in easy.

Thanks!  As a longtime member of a truck forum I ran into much bad info about stuff and so I started documenting certain things and figured I would do it here as well. I'm pretty inspired by the Riv and want to see it going again and make some improvements along the way.  Its a serious hobby for me and I just do stuff the way I see it.

 

Thanks for the weather stripping info. I've rebuilt a couple sets of truck vents and they were easy but I did pop for an aircraft rivet pressing tool which made things nice. Not sure if these need them or not as I haven't looked but I'm pretty sure these have been baked by desert sun into petrified chunks. I want to get it sealed up eventually.

 

I saw the viking kits also and almost went for it but Evil bay QA1s popped up by someone who decided not to use them.  I figured what the hell!!! If they dont work or cause too many issues I'll put them in my 66 El Camino.  I've been busy with many job requests and so havent made quite the progress lately but I will have time off during the holidays and get some more done....currently working on the rear axle and trying to extract it out from under the rear.

[EmTee]

9 hours ago, protrash63 said:

but I will have time off during the holidays and get some more done....

Now, that's my idea of a Happy Holiday! 

[protrash63]

For those interested in the QA1 topic, this is the cross shaft at the bottom of a coilover that bolts to the control arm. .75" in diameter.  

[jsgun]

I'm interested in the QA1's because you have some control over setting the ride height. I want a slight nose up look for my 64. I think it used to be called the "speed boat rake". BCFab makes a bolt in bag kit for these cars, was thinking of heading that direction after I have it back on the road.

[jsgun]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:46 PM, protrash63 said:

Thanks!  As a longtime member of a truck forum I ran into much bad info about stuff and so I started documenting certain things and figured I would do it here as well. I'm pretty inspired by the Riv and want to see it going again and make some improvements along the way.  Its a serious hobby for me and I just do stuff the way I see it.

 

Thanks for the weather stripping info. I've rebuilt a couple sets of truck vents and they were easy but I did pop for an aircraft rivet pressing tool which made things nice. Not sure if these need them or not as I haven't looked but I'm pretty sure these have been baked by desert sun into petrified chunks. I want to get it sealed up eventually.

 

I saw the viking kits also and almost went for it but Evil bay QA1s popped up by someone who decided not to use them.  I figured what the hell!!! If they dont work or cause too many issues I'll put them in my 66 El Camino.  I've been busy with many job requests and so havent made quite the progress lately but I will have time off during the holidays and get some more done....currently working on the rear axle and trying to extract it out from under the rear.

Years ago, there was a 65 Riv on the LA CL that had coilovers on all 4 corners. I wish I had checked the car out. 

 

I did my vents a 4 or 5 years ago, so my memory is hazy on it. Seems like it was generally easy. Basically, the thick chromed leading edge is the main part, everything else is attached to it. There's a phillips head screw at the peak, buried under the felt channel, and then two large phillips head screws holding the sheet metal part to the main chrome part. The only thing that stuck out to me, was during reassembly, it was easist to push the peak together, put that screw in, and then squeeze it together and put the bottom two large screws in. I must have had the driver's side apart 20 times grinding on the rubber in different places to clearance enough for the window to close all the way. 

 

FWIW, any GM power window motor from about 58 on will bolt on. I installed 58-64 impala motors on mine. I left the lock screw out of the shaft where it meets the motor, because it seems to walk back and forth during rotation. I cobbled together switches and modified my switch panels for them, but haven't ran wiring yet. Also, that vent window shaft is soft metal, and can be twisted to clock the window in relation to the input. I used two crescent wrenches to do it.

 

Another edit. The weather stripping in the channels is a glue in fabric backed felt. I used 3M yellow glue on it, it seems to be holding well. Used 3M black on the parts around the top, for the foam. You've built cars before, it's probably standard stuff for a GM. My last car was a 67 mustang, it might as well came from a different planet compared to the Riviera.

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by jsgun (see edit history)

[protrash63]

20 hours ago, jsgun said:

I'm interested in the QA1's because you have some control over setting the ride height. I want a slight nose up look for my 64. I think it used to be called the "speed boat rake". BCFab makes a bolt in bag kit for these cars, was thinking of heading that direction after I have it back on the road.

 Yes, I'm going lower but not too much...planning on 2'' roughly. I have jacked the car up with the coilovers on but cant get any sense of height with the engine pulled out.  If you get QA1's the instructions tell you to lower the coil to the bottom and it wont work with these control arms, hence my call to tech. They sent me pics and the coil rides about 1/2 way up the body to get everything bolted together which was easy...

 

I have the BCFab kit and it will be going in with 3" dropped coils. They said you cant do it so I am going to do it . The lower link is about 1" taller than the stock arm and then I'll adjust the front to get it level or so.... the coils will bolt right on as their arm is wider than the factory link.  I like bags, they ride nicely but I'm impatient....when I want to go just go. No screwing around with ride height etc and the automatic systems are too pricey for me...I think about all the other stuff I can get done with that money. I'm planning on doing the rear suspension within the month so I will post pics as it goes together.

[protrash63]

19 hours ago, jsgun said:

Years ago, there was a 65 Riv on the LA CL that had coilovers on all 4 corners. I wish I had checked the car out. 

 

I did my vents a 4 or 5 years ago, so my memory is hazy on it. Seems like it was generally easy. Basically, the thick chromed leading edge is the main part, everything else is attached to it. There's a phillips head screw at the peak, buried under the felt channel, and then two large phillips head screws holding the sheet metal part to the main chrome part. The only thing that stuck out to me, was during reassembly, it was easist to push the peak together, put that screw in, and then squeeze it together and put the bottom two large screws in. I must have had the driver's side apart 20 times grinding on the rubber in different places to clearance enough for the window to close all the way. 

 

FWIW, any GM power window motor from about 58 on will bolt on. I installed 58-64 impala motors on mine. I left the lock screw out of the shaft where it meets the motor, because it seems to walk back and forth during rotation. I cobbled together switches and modified my switch panels for them, but haven't ran wiring yet. Also, that vent window shaft is soft metal, and can be twisted to clock the window in relation to the input. I used two crescent wrenches to do it.

 

Another edit. The weather stripping in the channels is a glue in fabric backed felt. I used 3M yellow glue on it, it seems to be holding well. Used 3M black on the parts around the top, for the foam. You've built cars before, it's probably standard stuff for a GM. My last car was a 67 mustang, it might as well came from a different planet compared to the Riviera.

 

Thanks for the info on these...always nice to have a little heads up on things before getting in to them. I will be sticking with manual operation as I dont want to add electric to anything, just to keep it simple.

[protrash63]

Nothing big to report as I did quite a bit of yard work today as it was beautiful. Once I made it out to the shop I yanked the brakes apart and disconnected the emergency cables, freed the u-joint and rolled the rear out from under the car.  Started working on freeing up the gas tank hangers...  I'm starting to see the light here on my first big projects and will be glad to have this thing back on the ground.

[protrash63]

Does any one know a source for the rear brake drums?  The usual suspects I imagine?  I haven't searched yet but think mine might be too far gone.  Thanks.

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, protrash63 said:

Does any one know a source for the rear brake drums?  The usual suspects I imagine?  I haven't searched yet but think mine might be too far gone.  Thanks.

You can probably find good rear drums from one of the many vendors who advertise in the Riview.  Cast iron drums in this size are probably produced, made not the exact same look but they’re out there. They Kantors first, then the other normal,outlets and jobbers.

[Turbinator]

On 9/20/2021 at 4:52 AM, powerage said:

That's a great score! Worth eating turds for any day!!

Powerage, did you see my note about a cover?

Turbinator

[protrash63]

I'm still kickin'!  I'm so busy that if I listed all the stuff going on you'd think you were on a home improvement web page... So in between home and work I have managed to pick off a few things and I will definitely have the suspension together by the new year. It's gettin' close...

 

Yanked out the tank shortly after the rear axle. It really hangs on until one realizes the vent tube is behind the bumper! LoL!!  Little bit of ultra-violence popped it off there... Then proceeded to blow out the rear frame rails which were filled with an endless supply of rat turds. My shop looked like a turd bomb had gone off and there are still some rolly polly pieces around. Yuck!

 

Also cleaned up the rear axle housing, which is extremely boring BTW. Lots of nooks and crannies to try and clean.  I went ahead and gave it a coat of hammered black to make it presentable and it is now ready to go back in. Its amazing that I have actually removed every brake fitting on this car without messing up one...they all came apart!

 

Need to source some more odds and ends and paint under the rear of the car. Thats next.

[protrash63]

The axle.............

[RivNut]

Did you look at the bottom of the 3rd member housing to see if you could find the stamped numbers that tell you what rear gears are housed within?

[XframeFX]

23 hours ago, protrash63 said:

Yanked out the tank shortly after the rear axle. It really hangs on until one realizes the vent tube is behind the bumper!

If you plan to replace the Pickup/Sender (it's the old 33 ohm type), install the new sender with the screws NOT tightened down. Then check the function by flipping the tank over with a multi-meter or wire it to the fuel gauge.

I had to do this several times. It seemed that the float arm was too long, meant for a repro tank? My tank was not damage so not sure why I had to mess with the sender. Doing several bends on the float arm got it to do the full sweep.

The manual says to allow for a couple of gallons of reserve at "E". No-Can-Do, at E, I am on fumes!

Use FI hoses and clamps when re-assembling.

[telriv]

As I remember the ohms for '63 & '64 are 45 ohms.

 

Tom T.

[RivNut]

You remembered correctly. 1965 went to 90 ohms

[60FlatTop]

Did you ever notice the arch of that rear kick up seems to match the cradle of a Jaguar IRS inboard rear disc brake rear end assembly. Even the mounts are close.

Edited December 20, 2021 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[drhach]

Talk about "poking the bear". 

[EmTee]

Nah, on second thought, I'm sure that nobody would ever attempt that swap... 

[steelman]

Bernie, I have. Also, the C4 85-96 Corvette batwing would be another candidate. Change the mono leaf to coil overs and this is where I would go. I am not there yet, may never be with this car, but I have thought about it. A lot.

[protrash63]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:11 PM, RivNut said:

Did you look at the bottom of the 3rd member housing to see if you could find the stamped numbers that tell you what rear gears are housed within?

The only thing I saw stamped was on the top and bottom in roughly 1/2" tall numbers that showed '70'. I didnt totally turn it over as I had it on jack stands...it was slightly precarious!

[protrash63]

On 12/19/2021 at 5:37 PM, XframeFX said:

If you plan to replace the Pickup/Sender

 Yes, but I have a new tank and sender. I planned on testing it because the 'new' one in my 66 Chevy pickup sank shortly after driving it....I need to yank the tank and am not looking forward to the whole thing.

[protrash63]

On 12/20/2021 at 9:03 AM, 60FlatTop said:

Did you ever notice the arch of that rear kick up seems to match the cradle of a Jaguar IRS inboard rear disc brake rear end assembly. Even the mounts are close.

 

 

No....and I dont golf or wear berets either.

[60FlatTop]

I have a wide range of cars that I like and I know the details of the construction of their platforms quite well. Having my Riviera apart for various reasons over decades I have contemplated many modifications but always left it original. In quite a few instances I have bought the car that came equipped from the factory with whatever intrigued me. If I was a bit more of a yahoo in my driving style the Jaguar IRS and disc brakes would be in my car by now.

 

As it is, I bought a Jaguar so equipped in 2003. It was an XJ-S coupe with a V12 in the Riviera weight range. I bought the car online and had it delivered, never having driven one before. There was a rumor around at one time that Bill Mitchell wanted to base the '71 to '73 Riviera Boat tail on the A-body platform, smaller than the full size Buick and more like the first generation. Close to the size, weight, and power of the XJ-S.

 

At the time I bought the (first) Jaguar I had dealer plates on hand. We unloaded the car from the trailer in my home driveway. On went the plates and I took it out. At the end of the driveway I pulled onto the road and gave it a pretty good nudge on the gas. "Whoa! This is the car Bill Mitchell wanted to build was my first thought. I have been driving Buicks all my life and that car felt like it needed the Buick badge. I have owned a few other versions of Jaguars over the years and they always feel like a British Buick to me.

 

By the way, in this neck of the woods you see golf clubs at the edge of the road for Spring pick up and all the berets are green.

[drhach]

It seems like the unsprung weight reduction would be the biggest gain in a swap like that. I wouldn't think the IRS in and of itself would net you much. If anything, it would just expose the deficiencies in the front end. 

[Turbinator]

On 10/1/2021 at 11:05 PM, protrash63 said:

Continuing disassembly tonite under the hood. Bat/horn relay put up a fight and I am considering taking out the engine harness just to get it out of the way. Got in to the heater box and this is the way this thing goes....take it apart and then vac it up for awhile.  Yuck.

 

Im going to try and get the engine out as its in the way...we'll see. 

The heater box is screwed on the firewall with hard to reach fasteners. Once I got the heater box off I put the heater box back on secure with easier to reach fastener locations. I also took out the heater core from an empty engine bay. Unorthodox method for heater core removal , BUT it worked.

Turbinator

[protrash63]

Still making progress and I put a coating of paint and undercoat to freshen things up. Its drying now and this week I will start assembling the rear suspension.

[protrash63]

Getting curious about my engine replacement and have started taking things apart to assess  what going on with the 65 401.  It turns but gets stuck just over 365* rotation.  Rockers have been replaced on the drivers side, pulled the dizzy and the oil pump turns. The plugs didnt look too bad actually...I was expecting much worse.

 

I'm wondering if something has fallen in a cylinder as it did not have a carb. Spent less than an hour on it so far but will figure it out eventually.

[RivNut]

Time to pull the heads and lifter cover, then (somehow) turn it over and pull the pan.  Curious as to what you’re going to find.

[protrash63]

27 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Time to pull the heads and lifter cover, then (somehow) turn it over and pull the pan.  Curious as to what you’re going to find.

I will get it on the engine stand and be able to do that. Just started looking at things to see what I could find. Its so far looking used, of course, but not horrible. I'll get the intake off and the valley pan...and the trans.

[protrash63]

Headed out today and finally wrestled the rear end on to the link kit. Started with the trailing arms and the 'upper link'.  Its pretty dicey pushing things around and getting the urethane bushings crammed in. Also had previously expanded the mounting areas for the panhard bar as it needed 2" to get in and the factory was at 1.75". Used threaded rod, nuts, and washers to expand the mounts.

 

 Went pretty well with the usual trying to line up bolts thru all the brackets. Used grade 8 stuff everywhere but forgot to get lower shock bolts....never fails! I wonder how many hours I've wasted getting hardware for stuff I've built.

 

Anyway, check it out.......and Happy New Year.

[protrash63]

Didnt get my hardware cleaned up so I will try to get the springs in tomorrow morning or so. Going QA1 for the rear shocks as well. Coils from Coil Springs Specialties.

[DualQuadDave]

[drhach]

Any updates?