Riv 63 exterior mirror

[Michel Riv63]

Am I correct in assuming that the 1963 Riviera was produced with only one exterior mirror? Was a second exterior mirror on the passenger side available as an option?
I would like to mount a second outside mirror on the passenger side for safety reasons. Are such outside mirrors available and who sells them?
Thanks for feedback.

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

The external remote mirror for -63 was an option to be ordered either from the factory or the dealer. This mirror was normally installed on the driver side but it could actually also be installed on the passenger side. Your best chance to get an original mirror would be to buy it from one of the used part sellers that you can find in the Riviera Owners Association magazine see www.rivowners.org for membership (well worth the money).

Alternative you might find someone coming back to you here or in one of the Facebook groups such as https://www.facebook.com/rivieraassoc/ or https://www.facebook.com/groups/BuickRivieraOwners/.

Edited July 22, 2021 by SwedeDownUnderR63 (see edit history)

[Jim Cannon]

After you purchase a mirror to go on the passenger door, then you will then look at where to install it.

 

If your car has the mirror on the driver's door and you match the location (so that both mirrors look the same from the outside, so the car looks nice) you may find that the mirror on the passenger side sits just outside the little vent window and the driver cannot really see it very well. When you look at where to mount it, you also want to have it not interfere with the vent window opening.

 

Once it is installed, because the glass is flat, you will discover that even in the little bit of the mirror that the driver CAN see from the driver's seat, you cannot really see very much behind you. To improve that, you need to get a "stick on bubble mirror" that is the same diameter as the original flat mirror and stick it on that passenger side mirror.  Even with that bubble, your view in the mirror will be limited.

 

I mention all of this to help you decide if you really want to do all this work, time and money for not a very big benefit.

 

I decided not to. 😐

 

[EmTee]

I agree -- I added a matching mirror to my '67 and though it balances the exterior apperience nicely, it's of limited value functionally (maybe when parallel parking...).

[1965rivgs]

  Personally, I would choose a mirror of limited value over none at all, but that's just my personal preference..

Tom Mooney

[XframeFX]

On 7/22/2021 at 6:44 AM, Jim Cannon said:

After you purchase a mirror to go on the passenger door, then you will then look at where to install it.

Jim, I had a similar observation. Thanks for bringing the broader picture to us.

My '63 Riv has the Driver's Mirror further back. Making both sides to match the same location makes no sense.

When doing my veneer, I drilled 3 pin holes to locate the 2 screws and hole saw in the center for the joy stick control. After finishing the veneer, only I can find those pin holes.

However, I think I'll pass on a RS mirror too, have other priorities.

[1965rivgs]

6 hours ago, XframeFX said:

Jim, I had a similar observation. Thanks for bringing the broader picture to us.

My '63 Riv has the Driver's Mirror further back. Making both sides to match the same location makes no sense.

When doing my veneer, I drilled 3 pin holes to locate the 2 screws and hole saw in the center for the joy stick control. After finishing the veneer, only I can find those pin holes.

However, I think I'll pass on a RS mirror too, have other priorities.

  If your mirror was factory installed your car must be a relatively early production car. Sometime in late Oct 62 the factory installed mirror position was moved forward on the door.

Tom

[awk409ak]

Here's my 08D built 64 remote mirror location.

Art

Edited July 31, 2021 by awk409ak (see edit history)

[Jim Cannon]

Tom and Art are correct, the driver side mirror position changed in 1962. I have seen the side mirror in the original "further back" position as late as week 12A in December and the earliest I have seen it installed "forward" is in week 12C. So the change occurred somewhere in that time frame. I have not found a mention of this change in the '63 Buick Dealer Service Bulletins (so if you know where it is, please reply). The forward position was kept on all '64 and '65 Rivs.

 

The mirror was moved forward to a spot where you look at it through the vent window, because when you look at it through the full-size door glass window, it is at a very awkward angle. You could barely see anything in it, due to the sharp angle you were looking at it. Moving it forward helps with the angle, but now you are looking at it through the vent window, which is kind of in the way. Then the same is true if you put it on the passenger side and match the position on the door.

 

I moved my driver's seat tracks back 2 inches and I drive with the seat fully back (I'm 6'5" tall) so the angle looking at the mirror in the door is not bad for me.  It would be really bad for anyone that drove with the seat forward and the seat tracks installed in the original location.

[kegart]

My right side mirror is mounted forward to match the driver's side.

It looks nice but is useless. I think the only way you could see anything would be if it was mounted on the fender and that would look terrible. 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by kegart (see edit history)

[kegart]

When I was at Gettysburg I talked with Gene Guarnere about right side mirrors and he showed me a Riviera there that had a right side mirror that was slightly larger that would work better. He thought it was a Pontiac item. 

[Jim Cannon]

3 hours ago, kegart said:

My right side mirror is mounted forward to match the driver's side.

It looks nice but is useless. I think the only way you could see anything would be if it was mounted on the fender and that would look terrible. 

 

 

Now that you already have the mirror installed, try adding a stick-on bubble mirror that matches the diameter of he original flat round mirror (look at a truck stop for them). The mirror is mainly to help you when changing lanes toward the right, so it will help you see if there is a car over there, without using it for detailed viewing.

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

Now that you already have the mirror installed, try adding a stick-on bubble mirror that matches the diameter of he original flat round mirror (look at a truck stop for them). The mirror is mainly to help you when changing lanes toward the right, so it will help you see if there is a car over there, without using it for detailed viewing.

I have been looking for a 4-1/4” convex mirrors for years. The largest I’ve found is 3-3/4”.  If you find one, PLEASE post your source.

[1965rivgs]

7 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

Tom and Art are correct, the driver side mirror position changed in 1962. I have seen the side mirror in the original "further back" position as late as week 12A in December and the earliest I have seen it installed "forward" is in week 12C. So the change occurred somewhere in that time frame. I have not found a mention of this change in the '63 Buick Dealer Service Bulletins (so if you know where it is, please reply). The forward position was kept on all '64 and '65 Rivs.

 

The mirror was moved forward to a spot where you look at it through the vent window, because when you look at it through the full-size door glass window, it is at a very awkward angle. You could barely see anything in it, due to the sharp angle you were looking at it. Moving it forward helps with the angle, but now you are looking at it through the vent window, which is kind of in the way. Then the same is true if you put it on the passenger side and match the position on the door.

 

I moved my driver's seat tracks back 2 inches and I drive with the seat fully back (I'm 6'5" tall) so the angle looking at the mirror in the door is not bad for me.  It would be really bad for anyone that drove with the seat forward and the seat tracks installed in the original location.

Jim,

  I have the engineering drawings for the 63 factory mirror installation.  Any changes in the original drawings were noted in the right hand margin, dated and initialed. The change relative to mirror position was drawn in early Oct 62. I started tracking the actual cars but didn't obtain what I thought was a good data sample so my research fell by the wayside.

  Is it possible the change in mirror position took 2 full months of production from drawings to being instituted on the production line? I am out of town right now and don't have access to my data but I'm almost positive I have examples of the later style factory installed mirror position which are earlier than the examples you cited.

  Part of the problem with the data is, in spite of the fact we can determine if the remote mirror was factory installed, the cars are over 50 years old and have been tinkered with, some many times over.

Tom

[1965rivgs]

7 hours ago, kegart said:

My right side mirror is mounted forward to match the driver's side.

It looks nice but is useless. I think the only way you could see anything would be if it was mounted on the fender and that would look terrible. 

 

Oldsmobile and Pontiac mounted them on the front fender.

Tom Mooney

[gungeey]

never saw a 1st gen without either the tilt wheel or drivers side mirror options

[1965rivgs]

7 hours ago, kegart said:

When I was at Gettysburg I talked with Gene Guarnere about right side mirrors and he showed me a Riviera there that had a right side mirror that was slightly larger that would work better. He thought it was a Pontiac item. 

  Gene is correct, the Pontiac version looks identical to the Buick but the mirror glass is larger and will not interchange.

 I have a complete Pontiac remote mirror which I plan on selling...if anyone is interested send me a PM.

Tom Mooney

[XframeFX]

6 hours ago, gungeey said:

never saw a 1st gen without either the tilt wheel or drivers side mirror options

I've seen some without a tilt wheel but find it hard to believe a Driver's outside rearview mirror being dealer installed as that would be the 1st factory option before all the rest. Also, quite a job to install along with the remote joystick (wouldn't trust a Dealer to get it right).

I have the spare tire on the trunk floor. Mounting the right side mirror next to the door glass to match the left side, not now with what is confirmed here. TX!

Mercedes Benz 190E had a significantly larger mirror on the right side, not matching the left at all.

[RivNut]

https://www.teambuick.com/reference/years/63/63_option_codes_regular.php

 

This link is to a comprehensive list of options that were available for the 1963 full sized models.  The Riviera is the 12th one from the left, model #4747.  As you scroll down all of the options, you can see what was available is there's an X in the box, no X, not available e.g. power locks - Z3.  Or option E6 - rear seat speaker; available as an option on every model except the Riviera.  (It was standard equipment.) At the top, you'll see what is called basic group 1 and basic group 2.  Basic group 1 suggests that cars be ordered with D1 - AM radio,  S7 - Remote mirror, and T1 - white sidewall tires. Jim Cannon has stated previously that no outside mirror was the norm in 1963.  For the Riviera, it was either ordered from the factory (by the buyer or the dealer did for his stock) or you had one "dealer installed" otherwise there was no outside mirror. In the 1963 "Engineer approved accessories" brochure, the remote control mirror is listed as well as a plain ol' stick your arm out and adjust it mirror.  Someone who has seen the inside of a door that did not have a factory installed mirror would have to tell us if, when the door frame was stamped, was the hole for the joy stick punched out only for cars with mirrors or did every door frame have the hole punched in it. Same with the tab for securing the cable. Lots of questions about 58 year old cars and none of us were working the assembly line in Flint at that time.  

[1965rivgs]

12 hours ago, gungeey said:

never saw a 1st gen without either the tilt wheel or drivers side mirror options

Tilt wheel was optional in 63-64 and standard equipment in 65. I have seen quite a few non tilt 63-64 cars. The really rare occurrence is a 65 with the tilt wheel delete option...only encountered a couple of those!

 The outside rearview mirror became standard in 66. Previous to that the outside REMOTE mirror was a factory option or dealer option. No factory installed manual mirror previous to 66, dealer option only. If the remote mirror was not ordered by the original purchaser and no mirror was dealer installed there was no outside rearview mirror. I currently own such a car and have encountered a few others over the years.

Tom

[Chasander]

My 63 is without tilt, and as dealer installed manual mirror in the back position. 

[Jim Cannon]

9 hours ago, XframeFX said:

I've seen some without a tilt wheel but find it hard to believe a Driver's outside rearview mirror being dealer installed as that would be the 1st factory option before all the rest. Also, quite a job to install along with the remote joystick (wouldn't trust a Dealer to get it right).

I have the spare tire on the trunk floor. Mounting the right side mirror next to the door glass to match the left side, not now with what is confirmed here. TX!

Mercedes Benz 190E had a significantly larger mirror on the right side, not matching the left at all.

 

I have a lot of interesting statistics for the 1963 Model Year.

 

New cars left the factory with the following options installed:

• Front seat belts: 33%
• Driver side remote mirror: 80%
• Tilt steering column: 54%
• Power windows (not power vents): 73%
• Power windows and power vents: 15%
• A/C: 50% (the most expensive option available -- adding about 10% to the car's $4,333 Base Price)

 

Some options could also be added by the Dealer, some could not.

 

In the 1963 model year, Ford advertised that their Driver Side Mirror (not remote control) was included as standard equipment in the Base Price of their Thunderbird. This was an obvious dig at Buick because the T-bird was aimed at the same market as the Riviera (personal luxury coupe) and Buick offered it as an option at extra cost.  Buick's remote side mirror list price was $11.88, about $100 in today's money.

 

 

[awk409ak]

Hi Jim,

Anyone collecting  this data on 64's.

 

Art

[RivNut]

5 minutes ago, awk409ak said:

Hi Jim,

Anyone collecting  this data on 64's.

 

Art

Art,

In its introductory year, the 63 went through many mid production year changes. These are what Jim keeps track of. By matching FB numbers with the visible changes, dates for the changes can be narrowed down.  In 1964, all of the “bugs” had pretty well been ironed out so no obvious changes were made during the production year so there’s really nothing to keep track of. A few years ago an ROA member had a registry, but it has not been listed in the Riview for quite some time.  

[1965rivgs]

25 minutes ago, awk409ak said:

Hi Jim,

Anyone collecting  this data on 64's.

 

Art

Art,

  The cumulative statistics were reported by Buick in a document titled "Daily Car Reports". The `64 data is available,

Tom

[XframeFX]

7 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

In the 1963 model year, Ford advertised that their Driver Side Mirror (not remote control) was included as standard equipment

Our thoughts are closely aligned. My thinking was, a remote mirror an option yes. But I thought surely a mirror (non remote) was standard. So, 20% of 1963 Rivieras were sold without a driver's outside rearview mirror! Export cars? And I'll bet those 20% cars had a mirror installed at the Dealer. Something like my recent Jeep JL order, decided to leave trailer tow off and install a Mopar Hitch later,

Regarding production changes, in the late '80s I observed two 1963 Riviera tilt steering columns. The turn signal switches were mounted differently on each. I no longer have what must've been an early '63 tilt column so, can't re-visit for details.

[Riviera63]

56 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

Our thoughts are closely aligned. My thinking was, a remote mirror an option yes. But I thought surely a mirror (non remote) was standard. So, 20% of 1963 Rivieras were sold without a driver's outside rearview mirror! Export cars? And I'll bet those 20% cars had a mirror installed at the Dealer. Something like my recent Jeep JL order, decided to leave trailer tow off and install a Mopar Hitch later,

Regarding production changes, in the late '80s I observed two 1963 Riviera tilt steering columns. The turn signal switches were mounted differently on each. I no longer have what must've been an early '63 tilt column so, can't re-visit for details.

 

My 63 Riviera was one of the 20%. It has the manual mirrors dealer installed mirrors on both sides. It also has dealer installed electric windows. Both the 1963 Pontiac Tempest and 1963 Tempest Lemans I had,  the outside rear view mirror was an option. For those cars the passenger side sun visor was also an option.

 

Bill

Edited July 30, 2021 by Riviera63 (see edit history)

[gungeey]

12 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

Tilt wheel was optional in 63-64 and standard equipment in 65. I have seen quite a few non tilt 63-64 cars. The really rare occurrence is a 65 with the tilt wheel delete option...only encountered a couple of those!

 The outside rearview mirror became standard in 66. Previous to that the outside REMOTE mirror was a factory option or dealer option. No factory installed manual mirror previous to 66, dealer option only. If the remote mirror was not ordered by the original purchaser and no mirror was dealer installed there was no outside rearview mirror. I currently own such a car and have encountered a few others over the years.

Tom

 

Im guessing a low optioned car?

it would not bother me a bit to not have an outside door mirror in a 1st gen. It probably takes more time angling my head to get a full view of the different angles of the rearward traffic through that little periscope than just turning my head around LOL

 

the outside mirror is essentially a lump of  chrome jewelry for the Buick

[RivNut]

Leave your outside mirrors as they are and install one of these wide angle clip on mirrors over your rear view mirror and see everything behind you.  You probably couldn’t use it for backing into the garage but…….

 

 

 

 

Then take it off when you get to the show,

Edited July 31, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history)

[awk409ak]

7 hours ago, RivNut said:

Art,

In its introductory year, the 63 went through many mid production year changes. These are what Jim keeps track of. By matching FB numbers with the visible changes, dates for the changes can be narrowed down.  In 1964, all of the “bugs” had pretty well been ironed out so no obvious changes were made during the production year so there’s really nothing to keep track of. A few years ago an ROA member had a registry, but it has not been listed in the Riview for quite some time.  

Ed,

I understand.  was just asking if there was anything.  I do remember someone working on a 64 registry, and have try to reach this person with no success.  Just trying to learn more about the car I have.

 

Art

[gungeey]

27 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Leave your outside mirrors as they are and install one of these wide angle clip on mirrors over your rear view mirror and see everything behind you.  You probably couldn’t use it for backing into the garage but…….

 

 

 

 

Then take it off when you get to the show,

 

 

If I was driving through a corn field like the guy in the top picture I guess the rear view don't matter so much? LOL

 

[Chasander]

My 63 has factory air, but no tinted side glass, you would think they would go together. 

[Jim Cannon]

On 7/29/2021 at 6:41 PM, gungeey said:

never saw a 1st gen without either the tilt wheel or drivers side mirror options

 

Here's one. This car also has no tilt column (and no radio). A zero-options car.

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

Here's one. This car also has no tilt column (and no radio). A zero-options car.

Still a great looking car. It does have the wire spoke wheel covers and white sidewall tires. But those are easy to replace over 58 years.  It would be interesting to know how it originally came from the factory.  Was the bottom line on the window sticker (excluding delivery) was $4,388.00.

[EmTee]

"...and I'm not paying one penny more!" 

[Jim Cannon]

11 hours ago, RivNut said:

Still a great looking car. It does have the wire spoke wheel covers and white sidewall tires. But those are easy to replace over 58 years.  It would be interesting to know how it originally came from the factory.  Was the bottom line on the window sticker (excluding delivery) was $4,388.00.

 

My prior reply got lost...

 

The current owner has the original blackwall tires and the original stock wheel covers in his garage from when he upgraded to these fancy tires and wire wheel covers.

 

This car was bare bones. The data plate on the firewall has nothing at all on the ACC line. 🤣

 

The radio delete plate is kind of cool (and rare). Only 561 new '63 Rivieras were sold with radio delete.  

 

Even more amazing was that 63 new Rivieras were sold in the 1963 model year with the "Less Heater & Defrost" option (for a $98 credit on the car sticker price). Now that's a rare Riviera to be on the lookout for. They must have gone to Hawaii or Miami!  I wonder what the Fisher Body data plate code was for "delete heater and defrost"? 😆

 

The car pictured here was sold new in Detroit and lived there all its life; no one would delete the heater in Detroit.

 

 

[RivNut]

Jim, 

Thanks for that. My question is, and I looked at the available options list, did the radio delete option create a credit for the buyer?   It  would be interesting to see the window sticker for this car; probably two lines - base price and radio delete.

[Jim Cannon]

3 hours ago, RivNut said:

Jim, 

Thanks for that. My question is, and I looked at the available options list, did the radio delete option create a credit for the buyer?   It  would be interesting to see the window sticker for this car; probably two lines - base price and radio delete.

 

No, no credit for not ordering a radio because radio was not included in the Base Price.  There WAS a charge for the radio you did order.  Most cars did have one.

 

"Less Heater and Defroster" did produce a credit because those items WERE in the Base Price.  I would have never even thought of asking to delete the heater/defroster and give me a $100 credit!  I wonder what that control panel that mounts under the dash pad looked like? Two vent knobs and a courtesy light switch knob? Anyone ever seen one? 

🤯

 

 

 

[gungeey]

8 hours ago, EmTee said:

"...and I'm not paying one penny more!" 

 

If you buy this car today I will throw in the radio delete COVER for free

[XframeFX]

So, no Driver's Outside rear view mirror, how about that!

One of the reasons I'm into 1st generation Rivieras is that they are usually well appointed with options during an era when 2BBl 283 V8s and powerglides prevailed.

 

A few years back, I've seen a '64 Riviera with a 2 BBL nailhead in a wrecking yard. Even on a sunny day, I had trouble making out the engine stampings. Did not have a wire brush. I did take pictures as best as I could and the cowl tag. If original, peculiar!