edinmass Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 It sure is funny how cars find their owners. Oftentimes it’s a more interesting story than the car itself. Both of my White Motor Cars came about and into my garage by accident. Wasn’t looking for a car, and certainly didn’t need one. That said, I have enjoyed my White Motor Car journey and it’s still getting better every day. I always say, good cars keep getting better. That certainly applies to the two cars. Best part of owning them? Twenty new car friends, many close to my home in Florida. I have visited the new group of people at their homes, driven with them on tours, met up with them at Pebble and Amelia………all in just 18 months..….and I expect a life long relationship with most of them. Most of the White Motor Car collectors are eccentric or unique……….and so far, none of them have been “normal people” like myself………😏 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 "Had an interesting conversation today with the great grandson of Rollin White.........who owns a bunch of White steam and gas cars...." Its great to get primary source information or in this case, as nearly primary source as is possible. While he collects Whites, does he also have a Rollin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 What happened to the title of this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 16 minutes ago, mike6024 said: What happened to the title of this thread? I changed it to reflect how the thread has evolved - read the first post. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 hours ago, edinmass said: Most of the White Motor Car collectors are eccentric or unique……….and so far, none of them have been “normal people” like myself………😏 @ Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Hi Ed, hey maybe we should swap chassis, my 1915 truck looks more like a car chassis, but it is a truck! all beit a small one, 9 ft 6” w/b and radiator that mounts to the top rails without the shock type mounts ? and Aluminium trans casing etc, ive almost got my 30 h/p white donor engine cleaned up just waiting on a new shaft for the waterpump and sorting out the mag drive coupling, this engine has a casting date of 1919 cheers mike 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 5 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: "Had an interesting conversation today with the great grandson of Rollin White.........who owns a bunch of White steam and gas cars...." Its great to get primary source information or in this case, as nearly primary source as is possible. While he collects Whites, does he also have a Rollin? Im guessing he does.......along with a Cletrac. He is the only family member that embraces the car hobby that I know of. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 A minor update finally..........we got all the new bushings made for the king pins........it was so loose that the southern boarder was tighter than the cars front end. We can get the front end on the car and start making more progress. I still have only seen the car once for fifteen minutes. I would like to hear it run. I think this car will be significantly more work and dollars to get sorted. One step at a time. Will probably pull the pan next week so we can eyeball the clutch.........which I am certain is smoked. We spoke to the last guy who worked on it. He was well meaning but didn’t understand the operation of the unusual system the car has....and that caused the cracked carrier fork, bent linkage, ect........more as we get time.....it’s usually busy at the shop right now, and those cars come first. Although you can’t tell, this cars front end is 33 percent smaller than the 1917 car. Everything is scaled down, and much lighter than the newer car. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 Are we going to euphemistically call the 1915 the "little" White as opposed to the "Great White"? Two incredibly nice cars! Of course, White built many more of the model GAs and GBs beginning in 1910 on through the model 30s. They were the actual "little" Whites! However, they were also well built and very good cars! I have followed a couple GAs on Horseless Carriage Club tours. Nice cars! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 9 hours ago, edinmass said: A minor update finally..........we got all the new bushings made for the king pins........it was so loose that the southern boarder was tighter than the cars front end. We can get the front end on the car and start making more progress. I still have only seen the car once for fifteen minutes. I would like to hear it run. I think this car will be significantly more work and dollars to get sorted. One step at a time. Will probably pull the pan next week so we can eyeball the clutch.........which I am certain is smoked. We spoke to the last guy who worked on it. He was well meaning but didn’t understand the operation of the unusual system the car has....and that caused the cracked carrier fork, bent linkage, ect........more as we get time.....it’s usually busy at the shop right now, and those cars come first. Although you can’t tell, this cars front end is 33 percent smaller than the 1917 car. Everything is scaled down, and much lighter than the newer car. Ed, Have you ever crack checked your spindles? I have made it mandatory on my cars. Found cracks in several different makes. From what I understand is the steel used has to many points of carbon. Have had forging made and then machined out of 9310 steel. White used the very best materials of the day with good engineering for rugged service. Easy to check for peace of mind. George. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) A group of sharks are know as a herd, a frenzy, a school, a shiver or a gam. As it is a little thing compared to his other one I think an appropriate names are of course “The Great White” and “The Gam” as it’s a good looking little thing. Hope that’s not too poetically incorrect. dave s Edited November 13, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 Hi George, yes we do check.........certain cars more than others. Interestingly I find newer cars more of a problem. On this car, we didn’t do anything except a visual with spray dye. We usually don’t do shortcuts, but we needed to get the car moved ASAP, and we didn’t get a chance to magna flux them. Lots of new news to update on White #2. Actually drove it today and spent another fifteen minutes with it. I will post later, as I have the PII Henley Roadster on the show field today. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 Show field! I thought you were on your way up here to paint my garage. I guess I’ll have to enjoy your share of the Woodford myself! dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) Got to spend just a little bit of time with the White #2 yesterday........I snuck away from the show field, and went to visit the car in Phil’s garage. He managed to assemble the front end without me......🤔, and had the car ready for my first time hearing it run, and to take it for a drive. It was a surrealistic experience. It was Phil’s birthday, and his identical twin brother showed up for the weekend. They still look identical.......I mistook Big Al for Phil. Was quite amusing.........only their voice and speech mannerisms are different. The rest of their personality is identical. The car sat for 6 weeks and started easily. The front end was so bad that Phil called it underivable and took it apart the first day it arrived. Delays in supplies and machine shop meant it was apart for too long. Anyways, he also correctly adjusted the clutch, and repaired the broken and damaged linkage. It was an interesting drive......and made the following observations. Car is MUCH lighter than the 1917, steers and stops easier due to the reduction of mass, and the larger steering wheel. Transmission is a four speed with 3 as direct, and 4th is over drive. Oil pressure was great. Car doesn’t overheat. Water pump is dry. It’s shifting much, much better.......not perfect but 90 percent of the way there. I could easily up and down shift it without difficulty or grinding gears. All the lights work, as well as the generator. I was flabbergasted that the body is steel, NOT aluminum. The hood is aluminum. The radiator is a one off modified truck unit made to fit the chassis......no doubt about it, it’s a one off radiator. Lots of other observations........it’s 100 percent certain the car is a 1915 chassis, much of the brackets and hardware are obviously one off type construction. Gearing seems similar to the 1917. This car has NEW brake drums, and new friction material......stops better than the 1917. The drums were replaced in 1982......really the last time this car was actively driven and serviced. The car has a fold down front seat........interesting......and it was built that way from new. See photos. Edited November 14, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Pictures or none of it happened. I need to see what Phil II looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) You look as happy as a guppy in a gully washer! Glad you are enjoying the little Great White as much, based on that smile, as the Great White. AJ how would you know it’s not Phil he’s showing in the pic. We need one with both of them in one pic. dave s Edited November 14, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Look at you happy boy. Nothing like a new toy? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, SC38dls said: You look as happy as a guppy in a gully washer! Glad you are enjoying the little Great White as much, based on that smile, as the Great White. AJ how would you know it’s not Phil he’s showing in the pic. We need one with both of them in one pic. dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 Phil is on the left I believe 🤔 Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Sounds like it will be another great car! The fold-down seat is interesting. I have seen a couple model Ts with after-market conversions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yachtflame Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 On 10/29/2021 at 12:16 PM, edinmass said: and so far, none of them have been “normal people” like myself………😏 Spoken like a true leader! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Ed: Nothing like that first drive, is there? By your smile and driving impressions, I'd surmise you are immensely pleased with the prototype White. Congratulations to its latest conservators! "I was flabbergasted that the body is steel, NOT aluminum. The hood is aluminum. " Does this confirm or confuse the coachbuilder question? "The car has a fold down front seat........interesting......and it was built that way from new." Fold-down seats were developed for those who were auto camping while touring. It certainly required more equipment to create a comfortable accommodation but 'roughing it' then was part of the fun. Being a prototype, the fellows putting this car through its trials may have found themselves in places where no accommodations were available, ergo the White became 'home' for the night. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Steve.......LOTS more new info..........supporting the 1915 "experimental" platform........... I think enough to close the door to any reasonable doubts. Car is going to be great...........unfortunately we have more than just recomissioning work to do....unlike the 1917. It isn't going to be easy. Spending just a little time behind the wheel, and it's a different animal than the 17. I actually think the 1915....and yes, from now on thats how I will refer to it...........is going to be a better driver than the 17. I located a correct magneto for the 1917........just about impossible as no one has ever seen a correct White 16V4 single plug magneto in photos or books that I know of. I have a good one on hand, and Phil and I will install it when we find time which will be next year the way things are going now. More later........Best, Ed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) Contrary to popular belief, we actually do real work at the shop. First question most visitors ask is......”it’s so clean in here, do you ever fix cars in here.” The answer is yes, we do lots of work, some of it is heavy engine and chassis work but much is routine maintenance. Today we were doing some brake work on a JN Duesenberg. Last month we drove the car in the Smokey Mountains and the Blue Ridge Parkway.......doing switchbacks, mountain roads, and just overall “driving it like we stole it.” When you run them hard and fast through the turns.........they need attention when they get home. We had moderate brake fade from the three tons, steep hills, and crazy switch backs. If you have ever asked a Model J owner who actually drives his car.......what is the hardest part of maintaining a J or JN? It’s definitely the brakes. They are not much more complicated than a 1950’s five ton dump truck.......but mostly they take lots of time. Once you have done a dozen brake jobs they become routine. The have a very odd design, where the king pin and front wheel cylinder are all one piece.....so, if you have a wheel cylinder issues.......you got to press the king pin out. That was today’s project.......pull the king pin and spindle. Lots of special tools, and at the end of the day Phil commented he has never had so many tools out of the box to work on a front end.........in the photo you can see some but not all of what we used........the work wasn’t difficult.....but it was very time consuming as not to damage anything. Edited November 17, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Here are two photos of a 1915 White 30hp open car. The windshield is IDENTICAL to the one on my White #2 ....aka 1915 White Speedster Touring with California Top. Also, the smaller wheels, hubs, and brakes are identicle to the 1915 30hp car. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Are you planning on painting your car? The “Great White” looks good and probably more menacing as it is but the little guy may just look good painted. dave s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, SC38dls said: Are you planning on painting your car? The “Great White” looks good and probably more menacing as it is but the little guy may just look good painted. dave s Yes, I do plan to paint it.........My buddy Dave S has recently mastered the technique of pre war car paint work, and I was planning to have him do it for me..........😇 Sorry Dave, as usual, I can't help myself. I deal with 100 point cars ALL day long.....I'm fine with how it looks. I have a terrible attitude when people say.........you should paint that. I ask, Do you have a better one? Which with all of my cars the answer is an automatic no.......... I'm so spoiled with great stuff to drive, I'm only interested in my little 15 smoking the doors off a "Big boy toy" thats 100 points........puts a smile on my face. Edited November 20, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) News Flash! Aj just sold me a family herloom car thats been in his family for four decades........don't ask; and AJ......don't tell. I will post it here in the new year when it comes south..........🥸 Edited November 20, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 13 minutes ago, edinmass said: Yes, I do plan to paint it.........My buddy Dave S has recently mastered the technique of pre war car paint work, and I was planning to have him do it for me..........😇 Sorry Dave, as usual, I can't help myself. I deal with 100 point cars ALL day long.....I'm fine with how it looks. I have a terrible attitude when people say.........you should paint that. I ask, Do you have a better one? Which with all of my cars the answer is an automatic no.......... I'm so spoiled with great stuff to drive, I'm only interested in my little 15 smoking the doors off a "Big boy toy" thats 100 points........puts a smile on my face. Thank god! I will at least know there are two cars out there that have a paint job that looks as bad as mine! The best part is we want it to look like that😳 Ed, if that guy painted it it may look worse than the original paint on it now. But I do have a bunch of spray cans of different colors we could use. dave s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Ed: "The have a very odd design, where the king pin and front wheel cylinder are all one piece.....so, if you have a wheel cylinder issues.......you got to press the king pin out." Is the wheel cylinder that device on the top of the king pin? Is it unique to Duesenberg or were those utilized by other makers as well? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Ed, this may not be the right thread where you mentioned it but I am curious if Phil got the Studebaker pickup? dave s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 52 minutes ago, SC38dls said: Ed, this may not be the right thread where you mentioned it but I am curious if Phil got the Studebaker pickup? dave s Still working on it, unfortunate news for the health of a very close family member has put everything on hold for him for the next 60 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said: Ed: "The have a very odd design, where the king pin and front wheel cylinder are all one piece.....so, if you have a wheel cylinder issues.......you got to press the king pin out." Is the wheel cylinder that device on the top of the king pin? Is it unique to Duesenberg or were those utilized by other makers as well? Steve Just Model J's as far as I know......blue tape is the cylinder. It's part of the kingpin....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Well, after months of research, countless hours chasing dead ends, and looking at suggestions from members here......I thought I had the body builder nailed down on the 1915 White..........WRONG! I’m back to square one.......and the adventure continues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 8 hours ago, edinmass said: Well, after months of research, countless hours chasing dead ends, and looking at suggestions from members here......I thought I had the body builder nailed down on the 1915 White..........WRONG! I’m back to square one.......and the adventure continues. Ed: Which coachbuilders have been eliminated by your research? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) The White was purpose built … The fold down seat … The courtesy light on the passenger side of the front seat … The combination of a lighter frame and a more powerful engine … Built to spec …. Start with the California Pink Slip and trace it back to the original owner. Please do not paint the White … It is a Survivor - against all odds … The Patina Helps Tell The Story 📘 Jim Edited November 21, 2021 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) Ed said I get to paint it in a hundred years from now when he and Phil get to sort it out again. AJ gets to complain about our work and Steve M gets to watch while walking around barefoot in the warm FL sunshine. What Ed forgot is I also get to pick out the color, suggestions will be taken for the next 99 years and discussed on this thread to keep the suspense happening. So everyone has to stick around to get the final choice. dave s PS my wife thinks I’m nuts too. Edited November 21, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 The 1915 and 1917 cars will never be painted while I own them.......it's not even open to discussion. We were just having fun with Dave and his "Great Adventure". As far as the body builder.......I have it narrowed down to .....no god damm clue...........but I have suspicions. I think it will be a best guess when I have more research. I honest think that I will never truly be able to prove it, but the research is fantastic from a history and entertainment point of view. Current best guess as to the builder.........Theodor Kundtz, with 70 percent confidence. Maybe. I think. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) If we can’t have fun, what’s the point of having old cars, friends to give you a hard time or life for that matter. I’ve always said if you want to chew me out go ahead I have more ass than you have teeth. If you want to have fun with me go ahead I’m a pretty big thick skinned guy just be ready for the same and enjoy the laugh. I bet your research is fun, the new stuff you learn about this fabulous machine has been fun for all of us. So get back to the books and research and figure it out already. dave s. Edited November 21, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) Dave, a day next month you can back the Stude into the garbage truck so the car and you can have a symmetrical repair experience! Something akin to “Liquor in the front, poker in the rear.” That’s a sign on the Package Store bathroom at my local establishment that sells me Crown Royal. “I see said the blind man picking up his hammer and saw,” “you do said the deaf mute;” “while the man with no legs got up and walked away.” Edited November 21, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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