Video on classic car dealer in MI who cheated sellers

[bill pritchett]

There is a video from Steve Lehto, a Michigan attorney. He does very interesting videos on a variety of legal issues.  This one is on a dealer in Bay City, MI, that took a few sellers for a ride.

 

 

[Guest]

Ugh!

[Matt Harwood]

Oh great, my job just got that much harder.

 

I know this guy. Never did business with him, but he has tried to buy cars from me in the past. Told me he didn't bother with anything under $200,000 any more because there was just no profit in it. Now I guess I know why he said that.

[bill pritchett]

Matt,

It sounds like you were lucky.  I assume it takes about as much work to sell a $25K car as a $200K car.  There are certainly some differences in perhaps your marketing or other services you might perform.  On the other hand, there are a lot more potential buyers for the lower price cars I would guess.  Anyway, I am glad you were not affected.   One question that this raises, do you do much business with other dealers or it that primarily trying to locate a car for a client.  I have seen some of your posts on the business but do not think this was addressed as your business is one I know little about overall.

Bill

[Lahti35]

I would stop in there now and then when they first opened, something fun to do while downtown. Then they started charging to see the cars so that was the end of that. They did have a Mercedes one time with a back story that it belonged to Herman Goering's Doctor, beautiful car. I never saw more than a dozen cars there at any one time, it wasn't a big place. Hope the owners get made whole!

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

Here is an article on the allegedly crooked dealership,

regarding another car, a 1963 Jaguar:

https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw-bay-city/2019/12/bay-city-motor-co-owner-faces-felony-charge-in-sale-of-classic-1963-jaguar.html

 

A little bit of insight:  " The two parties agreed to list the car

for about $220,000, though a truer estimate for the Jaguar

would have been about $126,000, officials claim."

"...brokered the sale of the car for approximately $118,300..."

 

That's not the dishonest part, but it shows that when some dealers

price cars at double their value, they don't expect really to 

get double their value.  Always take asking prices with several

grains of salt!

[1935Packard]

This sounds like one of the dumber fraud schemes I have come across.   You sign a contract with the guy to consign your car, so it's all in writing.  He then signs a contract selling your car, so that's all in writing, too.  He then pockets the proceeds and pretends that the car hasn't yet sold.  You get wise and alert the authorities, and it's not like he has a defense: They know where he works, he obviously can't produce the car, and they have the whole arrangement in writing.   Maybe he had some dumb plan to invest the $ or gamble or whatever and hoped he would make extra money and just send on the payment after a delay, so no one would notice what he was up to?  Or maybe he just hadn't thought out how it goes after a year or two when everyone figures out the scheme.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Buffalowed Bill]

It just crossed my mind, that since there is theft involved, would the car owner have an advocate in their insurance company? I guess what I'm really asking, is something like this covered by insurance? It also seems that stolen property should be returned to the legal owner. That's the way recovered property is usually handled. What have I missed?

 

Bill

[JACK M]

Scumbag!!!

 

And one wonders why car dealers have a bad rep.

[Ed Luddy]

19 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Oh great, my job just got that much harder.

 

I know this guy. Never did business with him, but he has tried to buy cars from me in the past. Told me he didn't bother with anything under $200,000 anymore because there was just no profit in it. Now I guess I know why he said that.

Usually when a true con man and Bullsh#t artist yaps about "Told me he didn't bother with anything under $200,000 anymore because there was just no profit in it. "

It's a red flag to get away from him asap.  I've met a few such weasels in my years of dealing in old cars. If you live in Washington state why would you ship your cars almost across country to sell? Greed motivation I guess?

"

[Matt Harwood]

15 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Here is an article on the allegedly crooked dealership,

regarding another car, a 1963 Jaguar:

https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw-bay-city/2019/12/bay-city-motor-co-owner-faces-felony-charge-in-sale-of-classic-1963-jaguar.html

 

A little bit of insight:  " The two parties agreed to list the car

for about $220,000, though a truer estimate for the Jaguar

would have been about $126,000, officials claim."

"...brokered the sale of the car for approximately $118,300..."

 

That's not the dishonest part, but it shows that when some dealers

price cars at double their value, they don't expect really to 

get double their value.  Always take asking prices with several

grains of salt!

 

Very interesting.

 

Coincidentally enough, here's the car he came to buy from me:

[60FlatTop]

Didn't take long to start jumping forward on that video. Not much of value there.

 

People make it into maturity and own or want a collector car in the $20,000 to $200,000 range. One would expect to person was smart enough to make the money. How do they turn around and be so stupid or ignorant as to lose the car or the money?

 

Shortly before developing an attitude that made me completely unemployable I reported to a boss who, very methodically, distinguished between stupidity and ignorance. Greed trumps both.

That is a lawyer speaking. They only come in on the reactionary side. And by that time the lawyers will be the only winners.

 

With the insight from my previous boss I can assure you there is more ignorance in the world today than stupidity. Every one of you has the power to make these cases a "moot point" in your instance.

Bernie

[Enos]

I have always said....the average person on street is not very smart.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

Shortly before developing an attitude that made me completely unemployable 

😆

[John_S_in_Penna]

22 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

How do they turn around and be so stupid or ignorant as to lose the car or the money?

 

22 hours ago, Enos said:

I have always said....the average person on street is not very smart.

 

I'd recommend blaming the criminal, not the victim.

Criminals--whether they are bank robbers, con men,

or dishonest car dealers--practice being subtle and secret,

and while after the fact their deeds may be obvious,

they may not be obvious beforehand.

 

Thankfully, we can rely a lot on trust in business, since

most people are honest.  Not blind trust, but practical trust.

That's what makes our hobby enjoyable.

Criminals violate that trust.

[lump]

One fact of life is that the vast majority of people we do business with ARE honest. So, it's easy to let your guard down a bit, and trust people a bit more than you should. Especially when those people are widely known, and appear to be highly successful and "trusted" by lots of other people. Like Bernie Maddow. 

 

I've been self-employed nearly 40 years now. I have trusted many, many business people, and have been burned by a tiny percentage of them. Valuable lessons learned. And I have been amazed many times by how completely other business people have trusted me. Many have taken big chances, and I was grateful...but surprised.

 

After a while you have earned whatever level of trust you have with people you have done business with for decades. But I still see some folks extend outrageous trust to strangers. 

 

And I keep preaching to my sons and to younger business people: "Desperate people WILL do desperate things." We must never assume someone is cash-strong based on the car they drive, or the house they appear to be living in. 

[ojh]

You'd think that with modern electronics the dealer would have a camera on your car so you could check it out from time to time, if you can see whats going on on your front porch you should be able to see your 6 digit classic in the guys showroom.

[60FlatTop]

On 8/31/2020 at 5:32 PM, lump said:

it's easy to let your guard down a bit, and trust people a bit more than you should.

 

There is a psychological term "projection" where you see your personal values in another person. Most commonly it appears in the supervisor who sneaks around corners or hides to spy on the activities of persons they are in charge of. They "project" their own heinous, despicable personality traits on others expecting they must be "just like them". When I worked for or with really good people I was accepted as having the same values as them. When I have associated with a square peg who had greatness thrust upon them I was looked at as similar to their ilk.

 

Trust with caution works well in business deals. I have been self employed outside of the car hobby for about 15 years and the lack of an understanding of body language still amazes me, just some forgotten cliche of the 1980's. What did Groucho say? "How much would you take to buy our introduction back?"

[Matt Harwood]

49 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

There is a psychological term "projection" where you see your personal values in another person. Most commonly it appears in the supervisor who sneaks around corners or hides to spy on the activities of persons they are in charge of. They "project" their own heinous, despicable personality traits on others expecting they must be "just like them". When I worked for or with really good people I was accepted as having the same values as them. When I have associated with a square peg who had greatness thrust upon them I was looked at as similar to their ilk.

 

This.

 

Dishonest people expect everyone to be dishonest, which justifies their dishonesty. They seem to figure that since someone's going to rip a person off, it may as well be them. Getting away from a person with that mentality is why I started my own business.