1966 Dodge Monaco Station Wagon Preservation

[TexRiv_63]

On to making the new lines for the dual master cylinder conversion. I decided to use Cunifer nickel copper tubing from Federal Hill and they also supplied all the correct fittings. While waiting for a tubing bender to show up I used some 12 gauge solid core wire to rough out patterns, the last few days I made up the two new master cylinder lines. The bender tool makes things very easy and the bends look quite professional for me. Cunifer also is easy to bend by hand so adjustments were simple. The other great thing about Cunifer is its nickel content, a little polishing makes it look like stainless. The flaring tool worked OK but I had to hand dress some of the flares so hopefully they will be leak free. As predicted, I forgot to put the last fitting on before flaring and had to it over. I bench bled the master and the air bled out quickly. Next is connecting the lines and on to bleeding. Any tips on what bleeding method works the best?

[keiser31]

1 hour ago, TexRiv_63 said:

On to making the new lines for the dual master cylinder conversion. I decided to use Cunifer nickel copper tubing from Federal Hill and they also supplied all the correct fittings. While waiting for a tubing bender to show up I used some 12 gauge solid core wire to rough out patterns, the last few days I made up the two new master cylinder lines. The bender tool makes things very easy and the bends look quite professional for me. Cunifer also is easy to bend by hand so adjustments were simple. The other great thing about Cunifer is its nickel content, a little polishing makes it look like stainless. The flaring tool worked OK but I had to hand dress some of the flares so hopefully they will be leak free. As predicted, I forgot to put the last fitting on before flaring and had to it over. I bench bled the master and the air bled out quickly. Next is connecting the lines and on to bleeding. Any tips on what bleeding method works the best?

As an ex brake mechanic I can tell you to first make certain any shoes are adjusted so that they rub very slightly on the drum surfaces. Start with bleeding the wheel cylinder farthest from the master cylinder and work your way to the shortest distance away. IE: right rear, left rear, right front and finally left front. Be certain to refill master after EVERY bleed. You may have to do this procedure three times or more to get a firm pedal.

Edited January 30, 2022 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Don, what kind of master cylinder are you using? Do you know the size of the piston? We're looking at a dual reservoir conversion on Melanie's '56 and I'm kind of looking for alternatives--we've been through 5 rebuilt stock master cylinders and they keep failing. 

 

Thanks!

[TexRiv_63]

20 hours ago, keiser31 said:

As an ex brake mechanic I can tell you to first make certain any shoes are adjusted so that they rub very slightly on the drum surfaces. Start with bleeding the wheel cylinder farthest from the master cylinder and work your way to the shortest distance away. IE: right rear, left rear, right front and finally left front. Be certain to refill master after EVERY bleed. You may have to do this procedure three times or more to get a firm pedal.

Thanks John, I have adjusted all the shoes to a light drag. What specific method do you use for the bleeding process? Most of my experience has been with the two person "push-it-down let-it-up" system, are there better ways?

[keiser31]

1 minute ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Thanks John, I have adjusted all the shoes to a light drag. What specific method do you use for the bleeding process? Most of my experience has been with the two person "push-it-down let-it-up" system, are there better ways?

That is the system I use. Make certain the "pusher" of the pedal pushes the pedal down at least three times and holds the pedal down as you loosen and tighten the bleeder screw.

Edited January 31, 2022 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

19 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Don, what kind of master cylinder are you using? Do you know the size of the piston? We're looking at a dual reservoir conversion on Melanie's '56 and I'm kind of looking for alternatives--we've been through 5 rebuilt stock master cylinders and they keep failing. 

 

Thanks!

Matt, I'm using a master for a 1967 Monaco with drum brakes, it has to have the residual pressure valves in it to work with drums. I think it has a 1" piston but not sure. Big issue will be what will fit on your car as far as studs, etc.

[pfloro]

Don, Unless one is bleeding or flushing brake systems every day, this little helper should fit the bill.  I just bought one to use on my daily driver.  It's a bit pricey for what it is but "cheap died" some time ago...!  The check valve is the secret...

 

Paul

 

https://www.amazon.com/Allstar-Performance-ALL11017-Bleeder-Bottle/dp/B00F9XHVKA/ref=asc_df_B00F9XHVKA/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312202698398&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3209279355854575949&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030242&hvtargid=pla-448887493813&psc=1

 

 

[EmTee]

This is the one I use - never fails. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-19200-Brake-Bleeding-Kit/dp/B0009OMY9M/ref=asc_df_B0009OMY9M/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242044768796&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6572142629079265464&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1023225&hvtargid=pla-570608917833&psc=1

 

No check valve; just pour a little fliud into the jar to start...

Edited February 1, 2022 by EmTee (see edit history)

[Bill Stoneberg]

And I use this...

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Products-250-System-Bleeder/dp/B00CJ5E1GS/ref=asc_df_B00CJ5E1GS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241914879076&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6073558540006453349&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027978&hvtargid=pla-435240413480&psc=1

 

[Lahti35]

Nice work, I am enjoying your preservation efforts! That Cunifer line is a joy to work with, sure beats bending steel!

[TexRiv_63]

9 hours ago, Bill Stoneberg said:

And I use this...

https://www.amazon.com/Motive-Products-250-System-Bleeder/dp/B00CJ5E1GS/ref=asc_df_B00CJ5E1GS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241914879076&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6073558540006453349&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027978&hvtargid=pla-435240413480&psc=1

 

Bill, that is quite a setup. How does it actually work?

[pvfjr]

6 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Bill, that is quite a setup. How does it actually work?

In your case, you'd use those chains and J-hooks to clamp that adapter plate on top of your MC.  Then you connect the little tank, and pump it up to a reasonable pressure with the T-handle.  It pressurizes your MC and keeps it topped off with the right amount of fluid.  Then all you have to do is go to each corner of the car and crack open the bleeders until you get steady fluid.  It's pretty much the best way to do this. 

Vacuum systems are decent and easier to implement, but they have the issue of sucking air past the threads of the bleeder.  Some guys try to seal the bleeder threads with grease (dissolves out shortly) or teflon tape to remedy this issue, but it's a little extra fooling around if you ask me.  Also, some systems just respond poorly to vacuum bleeding in my experience (like Hydrovac systems on 2-ton trucks, for example) and do much better with pressure bleeding. 

 

Not having to tend to the MC levels while you bleed is awesome too.  Let it run dry just once when you're almost done vacuum bleeding, and you'll hate yourself. 

 

I've made my own power-bleeder from a garden sprayer.  My only issue is encountering a "weird" MC or reservoir from time to time.  I've got a hockey puck with a 1/4" tube pressed into it that I can usually clamp down onto most reservoirs.  Just  last night, however, I had a weird reservoir with a 45 degree neck on a minivan.  After scrounging around in the shop, I eventually discovered that my radiator pressure test kit had a fitting with o-rings that fit the inside diameter of the reservoir's throat pretty well.  Nice coincidence, didn't leak a drop, took some wire to hold it all together though. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by pvfjr (see edit history)

[Bill Stoneberg]

Don.  As PVFJR says, it works well.  I have used it on my old cars and not had an issue.

 

Beats the heck out of the pump and hold method.

 

 

[TexRiv_63]

1 hour ago, Bill Stoneberg said:

Don.  As PVFJR says, it works well.  I have used it on my old cars and not had an issue.

 

Beats the heck out of the pump and hold method.

 

 

Thanks Bill, this is my master cylinder, it has a flat top, will this work on it without leaking all over?

[Bill Stoneberg]

That is similar to the MC's  that I have bled before.  

 

The tank was pretty easy to use. I used the rectangular plate on my Master Cyl. I read all the negative input about the chains so I decided to try something different. I had two bar clamps that I used instead (squeeze trigger type). Much easier than dealing with that flimsy chain and it was quick. I held 15 psi no problem.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

6 minutes ago, Bill Stoneberg said:

That is similar to the MC's  that I have bled before.  

 

The tank was pretty easy to use. I used the rectangular plate on my Master Cyl. I read all the negative input about the chains so I decided to try something different. I had two bar clamps that I used instead (squeeze trigger type). Much easier than dealing with that flimsy chain and it was quick. I held 15 psi no problem.

Would you have a pic or more info on those bar clamps, thanks.

[pvfjr]

This is a popular squeeze handle bar clamp.  Probably close to what was described, and available at any hardware/tool store. 

 

[TexRiv_63]

So as usual I was over-optimistic in my last post. After assembling the new master cylinder lines I flushed the system, rear first than front. After getting clean fluid at all four wheels I closed all the bleeder screws and stood on the pedal a few times to check for leaks. All was good except for a big leak at the new rear line into the union fitting. I tightened it twice but the leak remained - SHIT. I knew it was a bad flare, the flare tool I had bought (first photo) did a pretty poor job.

I sent that tool back for a refund (Thanks Amazon) and bought a much better tool from Eastwood. I got it a few days ago and remade the new rear MC line - what a difference! It truly does make perfect flares and is much easier to use. Rehooked all the lines and retested - no leaks now. Next will be bleeding...

[keiser31]

Sweeeeeeet!

[Matt Harwood]

Love that tool. I'll never use anything else.

[dalef62]

One you have fluid at all 4 wheels, I would gravity bleed it.  Just take the top off the master cylinder, open one at time and watch for air bubbles.  I use gravity bleed all the time, works like a charm.

[TexRiv_63]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:41 PM, dalef62 said:

One you have fluid at all 4 wheels, I would gravity bleed it.  Just take the top off the master cylinder, open one at time and watch for air bubbles.  I use gravity bleed all the time, works like a charm.

So you just open the bleeder and let it drip? Won't air be drawn in?

[dalef62]

Yes, just open one at a time.

[TexRiv_63]

I know you will find this hard to believe after all my kvetching but for the first time since December 1, 2021 my car is on the ground, outside of my garage and it actually HAS WORKING BRAKES!!! After my last post more than a month ago I still had a problem with a leak which turned out to be a defective union fitting that connected the new rear master cylinder line to the existing rear supply line. Note to self - throw away all sketchy looking used brass fittings and buy new! Once I was finally leak free I bled the system myself with an inexpensive check valve bleeder bottle which was easy to use and very effective. To solve the hard to access front bleeder screws I sacrificed a 5/16" ignition wrench and bent it in the vise, this gave me the access needed and worked well.

 

Last week I cleaned the mountain of junk off the top of the car, put the wheels back on and took it off the jacks. I started it up and tried the brake pedal, it went down quite a bit but not all the way and held the car when I put it in gear. With fingers crossed I took it out for a ride. It stopped but pedal travel was too much although there was no "pump up" effect signaling air in the lines. I drove it for quite a while on the local subdivision streets making many stops and dragging the brakes slightly to seat the linings, then I backed it up and tapped the brakes to activate the adjusters. The pedal travel improved and I noticed some pulling to the left. Some more driving, another back up adjustment they were better still. Took it for a short ride on regular streets stopping from higher speeds, then another adjustment, this time they were locking on the taps. After that the pedal felt very good and the pulling had stopped. I've driven it a few more times and there are still some adjustment issues but the brakes feel better then they ever did since I got the car.

Thanks to all who commented, helped me with parts and information sources and general encouragement!

Edited April 6, 2022 by TexRiv_63 (see edit history)

[keiser31]

EXCELLENT news!

[TexRiv_63]

 

In addition to my long brake replacement project I also did some suspension work while the car was up in the air for 3 1/2 months. If you have followed this thread you know I haven't been happy with ride the or stance of this car since I got it, always thought it was too low in the back. All the springs and torsion bars are stock original. When I got it it had bad Monroe shocks all around with load leveler shocks on the back. I replaced them all with similar but new Monroes - the car rode a little better but was very stiff and harsh over bumps yet it porpoised and bottomed out on big road dips. The front Monroes failed quickly so I bought a full set of KYB's, the fronts were installed and felt better but still too harsh. I decided I would remove the rear load leveler Monroes and put on the KYB's with the addition of some clamp on style rear helper springs, which I did recently. (first photo) When I took it out for the first test drive it was the worst ever! Terribly harsh and noisy and bottomed so bad on a dip I was afraid I had damaged something.

At this point I was really pissed. I went back and re-read some posts here and other forums plus did searches on ride issues plus googled and You-Tubed. Finally a memory clicked in my brain back to the early 1970's when I owned a 67 Plymouth GTX. In typical fashion back then I was trying to fit bigger wheels and tires and in the process I clamped the rear springs and cranked the torsion bars up higher. I remembered the car rode terribly and all those mods came right off and the stock suspension worked the best as designed. So, I removed the rear helper springs and then did something I should have done when I first got the car - measured the front end height exactly as described in the shop manual. You do two measurements on each side, one at the bottom of the ball joint and the other at the bottom of the torsion bar adjuster blade. The maximum difference between those two points should be 1 1/8"...MINE WERE ALMOST 3", CLOSE TO TRIPLE THE CORRECT HEIGHT! The wonderful thing about Mopar torsion bars is that all you need to change the height is a socket wrench. I cleaned the adjuster bolts and soaked them in WD-40, then loosened both sides 5 full turns. This was a total guess but it actually got the height down to within 1/2" of correct. The car is now level front to back as the factory intended. (second photo)

Results are everything and my next test drive was amazing. With factory ride height and suspension travel restored this car is now a pleasure to drive. It is smooth and noise free. Sharp bumps still are felt but the shocks actually do their job to minimize them. Yes the car is a bit floaty especially over dips and leans a bit in corners but that is exactly what was expected and delivered back in 1966. That is what I have been after all along so I'm happy.

I do think there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding out there about ride height, torsion bar adjustment, and especially any suspension mod that reduces suspension travel in any way. All I can say is try it first with the factory settings before immediately jumping into mods, Mopar engineering has always been the best.

[Lahti35]

15 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Looks sharp! Nothing like rolling a car out of the garage after a layup. Great work!

[TexRiv_63]

After relegating this car to the storage garage for awhile and enjoying my '60 Buick I am about to switch back and continue my to do list. First up will be the speedometer, it has been noisy with a bouncy needle since I got it but originally only in very cold weather. Now that has progressed to all the time so I need to deal with it. Other posts on the For C Bodies Only forum say the most likely fix is speedometer cable lubrication so I will start there. If anyone has any Mopar experience in this area please chime in!

[EmTee]

19 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Other posts on the For C Bodies Only forum say the most likely fix is speedometer cable lubrication so I will start there.

Yes - if you're lucky that'll fix it.  Pull the cable from the sheath, clean it and inspect for any frayed spots.  If frayed, you'll need to replace it.

[Bloo]

These Chrysler speedometers don't last forever, but try inspecting and lubricating the cable first. Replace it if damaged. If that doesn't help, get the head repaired right away. If the head is at fault, it might suddenly start banging 120MPH and break the needle off.

[drhach]

What a great car. This thread reminded me of a trip I took with my Mom, my Aunt and my cousin from Chicago to Enid Oklahoma and back. The same car, but green. My cousin and I loved that back-facing seat with the back window open. The exhaust probably took ten years off of our lives, but we didn't worry about those things back then. Thanks for preserving this car. 

[Lahti35]

Any luck with the speedo?

[TexRiv_63]

4 hours ago, Lahti35 said:

Any luck with the speedo?

Not yet, had to order the lube. My two local auto parts stores don't carry it, who uses a cable for speedometers anymore?

[EmTee]

Just

8 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

...who uses a cable for speedometers anymore?

Just stick your phone to the windshield! 

[TexRiv_63]

I did give the wagon a bit of a stress test over the last 3 days. I had to take my Durango SRT in for service and leave it so the wagon was the daily. DFW temps have been from 99 to 109 this week so I was more than nervous. Made two roughly 25 mile round trips to the dealer on toll road frontage lanes with both front and rear A/C on max cool and high blower. It kept us cool all the way, the only challenge was cooling it down after sitting in the parking lot for 15-20 minutes but it did the job. The factory temp gauge stayed in the center all the time I was cruising but did creep up when sitting at long stoplights - never got to the hot end though. I did notice with both blowers cranked the ammeter goes to a little discharge when stopped, I put it in neutral which stopped that. All in all I was pretty pleased, although I would not want to be caught in a traffic jam!

[EmTee]

18 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

DFW temps have been from 99 to 109 this week so I was more than nervous.

Chrysler products of that era (the drivetrains in particular) were over-engineered.  As long as everything is maintained in good shape they'll take whatever Mother Nature can throw at them. 

[TexRiv_63]

I am definitely not any type of social media influencer but I have taken some homemade videos of my hobby cars and put them on YouTube, mostly so I can share them on forums and Facebook pages. Most have less than 100 views, a few have a couple hundred but then we come to this one. It's a less than two minute shot of my 1966 Dodge Monaco station wagon coming off the truck when I first got it. (this is the same video in the first post on this thread 4 years ago.) For reasons beyond my comprehension it now has 25,530 views! I have always loved tin woody station wagons but I had no idea so many other people did!

https://youtu.be/H8a8tQ_MFmY

[keiser31]

FABULOUS car!

[STEVE POLLARD]

Great thread Don....

[keiser31]

I know this is 1965, but it may be entertaining....