TexRiv_63 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 My hobby car thinking started to shift from "shiny car" restoration to originals when I had my 34 Packard from 2013 to 2015. I spent too much money on a truly restored 67 GTX and the result was great disappointment and more money lost. I've always loved station wagons and had been half seriously looking for a good one for quite a while. Most of the family haulers from the 50s and 60s were used up by multiple owners and junked or Demo derbied out of existence. Wagon rarity made them popular so my search turned up either very expensive restored cars, very expensive modified cars, or terrible rusted out projects that were still too expensive. Then in 2018 I found this car on Ebay and it hit all the buttons - 95% original, reasonable price, southwest rust free, wood sides, and a massive C-body mopar, just about at the top of my list. The Las Vegas owner provided me with lots of extra photos, car history and details so I took a chance and bought it sight unseen. Here it is coming off the transporter - and I was not disappointed! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Harmatuk Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 About 20 years ago I turned down / walked away, from a yellow, doe skin velour interior, Chrysler, maybe 1978??. Imperial Crown, station wagon in mint condition. Was parked. 1 owner. 440 cid., power everything. Was just another huge , ugly, old car, owned by a skating rink owner. Parked out back. If I'm not mistaken, it was the largest production, station wagon made by Chrysler. 2500.00 It haunts me. When I see a station wagon , I immediately shake my head, with the remorse. Beautiful wagon you have. What a head turner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share Posted April 16, 2020 8 hours ago, Bill Harmatuk said: About 20 years ago I turned down / walked away, from a yellow, doe skin velour interior, Chrysler, maybe 1978??. Imperial Crown, station wagon in mint condition. Was parked. 1 owner. 440 cid., power everything. Was just another huge , ugly, old car, owned by a skating rink owner. Parked out back. If I'm not mistaken, it was the largest production, station wagon made by Chrysler. 2500.00 It haunts me. When I see a station wagon , I immediately shake my head, with the remorse. Beautiful wagon you have. What a head turner. I'm not sure but I don't think the factory ever made an Imperial wagon, Chrysler Town and Country was the top line. If I'm wrong I'd love to see some photos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share Posted April 16, 2020 This car is in very nice presentable condition and has been nicely preserved over it's life. It is a 3 seat 9 passenger fairly loaded with PS, PB, power windows, 6-way power seat, remote mirror, roof rack, rear grab bars, factory A/C plus the fairly rare rear roof mounted A/C. The body and paint are about 90 % original with a few worn spots, some work has been done to the tailgate and lower spare tire well and they have been repainted. I think the drivers side woodgrain has been redone, it just looks too nice. All of the chrome and aluminum trim is original in very nice shape. Southwest heat has affected the interior a bit, about 25-30% of the seat upholstery has been replaced and the carpet and windlacing are new. All of the "vinyoleum" inserts on the cargo floor panels are gone, but the dash, door panels and headliner are original and quite nice. The car has 123, 000+ miles with 23,000+ showing. Mechanically, it has the 383 4-barrel engine, torqueflite automatic and a 2.76 open rear end, all of which appear to be original and untouched. The PO did the brakes and put on a new tires, muffler and tailpipe plus added a new antenna, passenger side mirror and the deluxe wheelcovers, but then basically parked the car for 3 years. My initial drives after receiving it were interesting, I have not driven a stock bench seat 60s car for well over 30 years , so the "Boat" analogy really applied here! It floated all over on the little bumps and bottomed out on the big ones and the brakes felt very - leisurely. But the engine ran well, no smoke, trans shifted great, and the low rpm cruising experience was incredibly smooth. I knew I needed to get busy. Here are some of the pictures taken by the PO: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Have I mentioned how much I dig this car? I'm a wagon guy and I love the unusual ones that are all loaded up with options. There's still no better vehicle for a road trip! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Cool car.........since it and I are the same year of manufacturer, I don't consider it old..................😎 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) I LOVE IT!!! Nice find, looks like a time capsule. Just beautiful. Only disappointment was no burnout after rolling off the trailer. And yes, Ed, same birth year so it isn't an old car... just coming into prime. Edited April 16, 2020 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Tex, this is a beautiful long roof! Love the C-body Mopars. Had a '66 Plymouth Fury hardtop, and it was the best riding older car I ever had. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Have I mentioned how much I dig this car? I'm a wagon guy and I love the unusual ones that are all loaded up with options. There's still no better vehicle for a road trip! The neat thing about the C-body wagons was that they were all built on the same long 121" wheelbase platform. Even the more plebian Plymouths and Dodges were the same general size as a Chrysler Town and Country and close to the same weight. Not sure but I think that was true from 1965 to the end of wagon production. My car is 18'-3" long and just barely fits inside my garage... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 19 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said: I LOVE IT!!! Nice find, looks like a time capsule. Just beautiful. Only disappointment was no burnout after rolling off the trailer. With a 2.76 rear gear and about 3000 lbs in back I doubt a burnout is ever in the cards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Up in my area of Western Mass, we didn’t call them station wagons. Back in the 60’s &70’s we always referred to them as “Beach Wagons”. Interesting wording from the Bay State.........like Package Store, and Rotary......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 We called them Beach Wagons as well...but RI is not far from Springfield. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 Soon after I got this car I jacked it up to check everything out. The first thing I noticed was how solid the body structure was, the C body cars use a hefty bolt-on front subframe attached to the unibody shell. When I had my B-body GTX which used a complete unibody structure there was a lot of flex but on this wagon I can jack up the front and lift a rear tire and the doors still open like it's sitting on the ground! I pulled off all the wheels and brake drums, it has the heavy duty 11" by 3" wide front brakes. All had been rebuilt and looked good. The front suspension bushings all looked good except for the sway bar connections which were terrible. The rear had aftermarket shocks with helper springs and they were leaking. While I had it in the air I greased it and changed the oil and filter, although it looked pretty clean. So my to-do list had sway bar bushings, shocks, and finding out why those good looking brakes didn't stop the car that well. The first thing I fixed was the 6 year old battery, which died a few days after I got the car! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 On 4/17/2020 at 12:41 PM, TexRiv_63 said: The neat thing about the C-body wagons was that they were all built on the same long 121" wheelbase platform. Even the more plebian Plymouths and Dodges were the same general size as a Chrysler Town and Country and close to the same weight. Not sure but I think that was true from 1965 to the end of wagon production. My car is 18'-3" long and just barely fits inside my garage... Barely is right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 20 hours ago, John S. said: Barely is right. I actually have to kind of drive up against that tire stop and set the brake so the door doesn't graze those rubber steps on the rear bumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Pretty wagon. I have a small garage built in the late 40's. I usually back my car in so, if I need to look under the hood, I can open it without being a contortionists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 Here are a few photos of the underhood area of this car. I have owned a few B-body big block cars but this is my first full size C-body. The first thing I noticed was how enormous the hood and underhood space is. Because of the large front subframe there is no structural metal in the way and that 383 looks small in the wide space. Of course with all the A/C plumbing for the front and rear units you don't actually see much of the basic engine! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 After finishing my initial checkover and driving the car a bit I found that it started easily but ran very rich and hesitated on acceleration so I started with a carburetor inspection. I took it off the car and disassembled it, found some interesting issues. The accelerator pump and the choke unloader were both shot so someone had bent the sh-t out of the linkage so the choke plate stayed half closed all the time. This richened the mixture and crutched the missing pump shot. This wise move locked out the secondaries so they had not opened in a looong time and were gummed shut. The inside of the carb was actually pretty clean except there was a pile of what looked like coffee grounds in the bottom of one float chamber. When I see stuff like this I'm always amazed the car ran as well as it did - also a testament to the AFB design. Next, cleanup and reassembly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Looking forward to the post-rebuild drive report! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I think you'll probably find 40 or 50 missing horsepower with that carbruretor working correctly... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 I took the carb apart and cleaned it up using aerosol carb cleaner and an air hose, it actually was fairly clean other than that gunk pile shown above. I started with an old can of STP carb cleaner but quickly switched to my old favorite Gumout. It worked much faster and dried quickly. I put it together using a kit from Daytona Parts plus two new floats, a rebuilt choke unloader, and a NORS well choke unit. The kit included new Daytona inlet valves using a flat shutoff instead of the stock cone shape, have not used this design before. What took me the most time was trying to get the choke linkage reset as the PO had really screwed it up, glad the FSM had plenty of pics. I put it on the car and started it but it did not work well at all, the choke is binding somewhere and it was not running smooth. I kept fiddling for the next week, removed and replaced the carb multiple times with little improvement. Finally I removed the new floats and inlet valves and reinstalled the old ones, put it back on and it ran much better! I could never get the choke to work properly though and fully open when warm. I even tried hooking up a manual choke with no success. Not happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike brady Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Don, If it ran better before, the kit is likely not correct for your carb. I suggest you call Jon (Carbking on this site) at the Carburetor Shop, give him your carb number and he will provide a kit specifically for your car. Jon only answers the phone on Mondays and Tuesdays. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 Mike. I should mention that I am bringing this thread up to date slowly so what you are reading happened more than a year ago. You will see how this all works out. I kept messing with the AFB. The new floats were not moving freely which was why I put back the original floats. Float levels were right on. I put the carb back on and then replaced the spark plugs. The old ones were seriously gas fouled, no surprise. I checked the points, cap and rotor which were all good and the car now ran quite well. Unfortunately I could not get the choke to work so had a car with no choke for awhile. I did find out that the carb on the car was not the original but was in fact from a 65 Chrysler 413. At this point it ran well and cruised great but had some obvious suspension issues so I shifted gears to solve those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 My next project was working on the front end, I replaced the shocks and all of the sway bar rubber. I bought all new Moog replacement bushings and basic Monroe gas shocks. I was happy to see that there were no rusty bolts and everything came off easy. The sway bar had been done before as both the frame supports and end links were the bolt-on type, the stock originals have to be cut off. The bar was a pretty easy install, although I forgot and tightened up one side then was surprised when the other side wouldn't fit! The shocks looked fairly new but one had no gas in it and squeaked when the rod was moved, definitely shot. Front shocks on these cars are not easy to do and at first I made it harder by trying to manually compress the shock. The trick is to wire it compressed then cut the wire once it is in place. I took it for a ride and there was a big improvement, no more bottoming and porpoiseing and no more tire squeal on turns. The rear shocks are next. General comment - this under the car work is tough for us old guys. I turned 70 right before doing this job. I have to plan my projects in small doses and the recovery time is directly proportionate to how many times I have to get up and down from the floor! This job kicked my butt pretty good, I probably should have stretched it out over three days instead of two. I plan to keep it up though, since if you stop moving who knows what might happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylormade Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I'm turning 74 in a few weeks. I feel your pain! I find I can get down okay, it's getting up that's the real difficulty. A knee replacement at the first of the year didn't help anything when it comes to this type of work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 My next project was to install new rear shocks. It came with load leveler shocks with the outer helper spring which probably is a crutch for worn rear springs, the old ones were both leaking. I duplicated the shocks which were Monroes, fairly reasonable with free Prime shipping! Installing these was a much easier job than the front shocks / sway bar, the whole thing was done in 3 hours including lunch break. After installation the ride greatly improved, still a little boat like befitting the car's heritage but no more bottoming out. The car sits level but to me it looks a bit saggy in the back, I may try a pair of those bolt-on helper leaf springs later. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Consider getting the springs re-arched. Look where the ends of the leaves contact the next leaf. If it has worn the next upper leaf thinner, that permanently changes the spring rate, and you might as well replace them. Usually happens at super high miles. If they're ok, take em to a spring shop.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in this thread so I will bring it up to date. Regarding my carburetor problems the non-original AFB never ran right even after two rebuilds and the choke never worked. I wasted time trying to rig a manual choke unsuccessfully but just wound up with a car that was a bitch to start and always ran too rich. So like many before me, I finally gave up and bought a shiny new 1406 Edelbrock. I used the Edelbrock Mopar linkage adapter and found a fitting that let me retain the original metal fuel line. I did the whole conversion in less than a day, the most time consuming part was wiring the electric choke to the accessory fuse under the dash. I had to do a redneck relocation of the coil to clear the choke housing but I'll improve on that. This is the third car that I have adapted an Eddy carb to and I have to say they have all run pretty much perfect out of the box as advertised. Initially I used the chrome air cleaner but later used an adapter to mount the stock original. The car is now a pleasure to start and drive - on to other issues. The next issue was the brakes. Even though the system had been rebuilt and the shoes and drums looked good my first panic stop was really a panic! What felt like massive fade. I went to a parking lot and backed and stopped a bunch of times to activate the adjusters which helped a little but it still sucked. I decided I would try a poor man's brake arc job. I took it out for a drive on expressway frontage roads near me where I could travel at 60-65 mph then rode the brakes on and off while keeping the speed constant. Not excessively, and let the linings cool between brake applications. I did that about 15-20 times, trying a few moderately hard stops in between. I could feel the response improving as I went and now they work quite well, biting harder with low pedal pressure and stopping quick and straight on a hard stop. One of the next things on my list is to do a dual master cylinder conversion and flush the system. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 The largest project on this car was fixing the A/C system. It has the optional dual a/c setup with a second evaporator unit with dual fans mounted under the roof above the rear seat and was complete but non operational when I got the car. It had been backyard converted to R134 and still contained refrigerant so I tried recharging it, which worked well for about a month before the compressor locked up. I waffled back and forth between stock restoration and an upgrade to modern components and the upgrade won due to its efficiency advantage with R134 over the stock stuff. I covered this in detail in the thread below if anyone wants to see it. The bottom line was that the conversion was not that hard to do and the system works great even after a year and a half. That brings us up to date. I still have a some things to do but for now the car is a dependable and comfortable driver and gets lots of attention whenever I take it out. And I know I will never see another one like it in the oncoming lane! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 5/28/2020 at 1:51 AM, Bloo said: Consider getting the springs re-arched. Look where the ends of the leaves contact the next leaf. If it has worn the next upper leaf thinner, that permanently changes the spring rate, and you might as well replace them. Usually happens at super high miles. If they're ok, take em to a spring shop.... Agree 100%. When Melanie's wagon arrived, the rear was a bit saggy. I thought about adding air shocks or helper springs, but ultimately we took it to a spring shop and they re-arched the springs. It sits right and carries the load properly without any assistance. Check it out: Best of all, it took them only a day and cost about $150. It was absolutely the right choice. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Agree 100%. When Melanie's wagon arrived, the rear was a bit saggy. I thought about adding air shocks or helper springs, but ultimately we took it to a spring shop and they re-arched the springs. It sits right and carries the load properly without any assistance. Check it out: Best of all, it took them only a day and cost about $150. It was absolutely the right choice. Yeah, I'm still on the fence about that. My car currently sits level with the ground now and I don't carry a load with it so I don't really want much of the raked look. What I may look into is the availability of a rear sway bar to help cornering although that is also not a big priority. One of the things I love about this car is that when I drive it I don't feel the need to zip around but just cruise slowly and smoothly... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just found this thread and you found a great car. I love the older wagons. Good job on getting it running right again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 17 hours ago, Bill Stoneberg said: Just found this thread and you found a great car. I love the older wagons. Good job on getting it running right again. Thanks Bill. do you still have your Riviera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Nope. Had to downsize so I sold it to a friend so I can still drive it and see it. The Vintage Air still works well. As a matter of fact I am in the process of replacing my factory A C with Vintage Air in my 60 Electra. We are putting in the biggest unit they make. Lots of fun. This along with an engine rebuild we weren’t counting on..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) On 4/16/2020 at 10:40 AM, TexRiv_63 said: I'm not sure but I don't think the factory ever made an Imperial wagon, Chrysler Town and Country was the top line. If I'm wrong I'd love to see some photos! I have a feeling that station wagon was made up from '75-'78 full-size Imperial/New Yorker parts. The hideaway headlight front clip from an Imperial or New Yorker will fit a Town & Country wagon from those years, and as far as the interior, I've never seen velour seats in a T&C wagon in that time frame, despite velour being a popular interior choice on hardtops in that era. Craig Edited September 10, 2020 by 8E45E (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 TexRiv_63, I love the work you are doing on the Dodge. This is a terrific post. Basic car care. Nice wagon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Quite a while since I updated this thread, with general coronavirus craziness and personal health issues I have not been car active but are getting back to things now. I previously posted here and in other threads about the suspension and brakes. I have gone ahead and purchased all the the parts for a total brake job which will include conversion to a dual pot master cylinder. I have also bought a set of KYB Gas-Adjust shocks for all four corners and will probably be replacing the rear leaf springs. I wish all this work was already done since the hot weather in Texas is almost here but that did not work so I will most likely be sweating it out soon. I do have an immediate problem related to hot weather, the A/C system that I upgraded two years ago is not performing well after being fantastic for most of those two years. I posted the details on my other thread and would appreciate any expert assistance there: 1966 Dodge Monaco Wagon A/C Resurrection - Technical - Antique Automobile Club of America - Discussion Forums (aaca.org) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) Sorry to hear about your A/C woes, Tex. Nevertheless, that wagon is one of the most awesome examples I've seen. I'm sure I've mentioned that before. When you get the A/C sorted out, you should load all the kids (or grandkids) into the wagon and take a trip to Disneyland. That's what my folks did with us in their Dodge wagon back in '64. To get the full effect, the kids need to be screaming all the way there and back. 🤪😁 Edited June 1, 2021 by JamesR (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted September 11, 2021 Author Share Posted September 11, 2021 So another couple months have gone by and I have made zero progress on my wagon. It is still driveable and I take it out weekly but I have a long To Do list as mentioned above. Part of the problem has been Texas hard summer, but my biggest problem is storage! I made a rule a few years ago that our daily driver must always be garaged after our previous one was destroyed by hail sitting outside. Now that I have the 60 Buick the only way I can do a long term repair job is to put the Buick in a storage facility. I had no trouble renting a drive-up unit a couple years ago but lately it has been almost impossible to find one even though many new facilities are open - and the prices have more than doubled! I blame this on the crazy housing market in DFW. I put my name on the wait list at an Advantage Storage location very close to my house back in July and yesterday I got the call they had some open units. I grabbed a 10' by 25' space which will fit the car plus some extra space and signed the papers. This will allow me to get back in gear and get the wagon up in the air for shocks and brakes! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 I love this old wagon. One of my best friends in HS had one almost identical. Same colour. That poor thing was run hard and put through the ringers. It ended up being centre attention at the county fairs demo derby! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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