Pricing junk vehicles

[bloodowl89]

Hey again everyone. I'm going to try the idea of going through the Vermont registration process to see if I can register myself as the owner and eventually get titles here in Florida for the Chevy C10 and Dodge Dart Custom. The problem I am having right now is that Vermont seems to go on NADA values. Neither of these vehicles run and both would need extensive work done  inside, out, and under the hood. For example, low value of the C10 was $16,600. I know for a fact that the C10 in it current shape, rust and all, is nowhere near worth that much. I'm hoping one day that it may be but if I am to go through Vermont  how can I register a vehicle needing that much work done in its current state with a more accurately reflected value? Thanks all for the help.

[huptoy]

Check Iowa,  I believe you can post a bond to get a temp title & after 2 years, if no one files an appeal of ownership, you get a full title.  I haven’t lived there for years,  they have changed the law.

[lump]

First, let me remind you that you are playing with fire, when trying to get titles for untitled cars. If something goes wrong, it can become BIG trouble. 

 

Having said that, you first need to verify that those two vehicles don't show up on some long-ago stolen car report (happens more than you might think). 

 

Then, the way some folks handle this issue is to sell their car to someone who lives in a state which does not use or require titles for cars that old. Write them a legitimate bill-of-sale for each vehicle, complete with VINs, and have them notarized. Then send the bills-of-sale to this other party. Now, technically and legally, they do OWN these vehicles. They can then take the legitimate bills-of-sale to their own state's title bureau, and request new titles in their names. (The notarized bills of sale are all that is needed in some states.) Their state will issue them a new title, for which they must pay tax and title fees. Next, as the new owners, they have the right to sell the vehicles to anyone they choose...including you. They can take their new titles to a notary public, and have their signature notarized as the seller, and send the title to anyone they choose...including you. When you receive the title, you can take it to your local notary, and have them witness and notarize your signature on the line which indicates you as the buyer. But this person had better be someone you really trust...because you really have given them all property rights to your vehicles! 

 

Keep in mind that, if by chance someone, someday wants to claim that THEY owned one of these vehicles, and they have the old original title, you could be in a real pickle. Worse yet, when you go to buy license tags, if the computer rejects the request because something fishy popped up with respect to that VIN...you again may have serious problems with law enforcement. 

 

The fact is that, IF these vehicles really are your property free and clear, and there really is no other claim to them out there anywhere, you should be able to acquire a title for them legally, somehow. But Bureaus of Motor Vehicles are not really prepared to assist legitimate owners of cars without titles. They are geared up to try and help all of us car loving people by making life tougher on car thieves. 

 

You should probably check with an attorney before doing anything on this. 

 

[Guest]

 In Ma., if you buy a junk car (or any car as far as that goes)  off of a licenced dealer, you pay the sales tax on the amount of the bill of sale.  🙂

[Jim Bourque]

Vermont does not issue titles for vehicles older than 15 years.

[bloodowl89]

3 hours ago, Jim Bourque said:

Vermont does not issue titles for vehicles older than 15 years.

I am aware that Vermont doesn't issue titles. I was informed that they instead send some type of registration card with you plates/tags.

 

Something else I am curious about is if my grandfather and great grandmother gave the vehicles to my dad (not sure about the bill of sale) He says he has it but hasn't found it yet. I am told that once you get through with this Vermont process that in order to get title you go with your registration you get from Vermont to your own, in this case Florida, DMV. They do a VIN inspection and if that is good you get your title. What does a VIN inspection consist of. I just wouldn't want me to be up there, they do a VIN inspection, see that my grandpa and great grandma were the last owners, and arrest me thinking I was trying to pull a fast one on them. To my information there is a clear path here of ownership. I have tried to run the VINs to but nothing came up on them. Almost like they weren't in the system at all. I would hate to work on these vehicles only to have the inspection have some undesirable results. Any thoughts on this? I still wonder what can be done about the NADA value but I plan on contacting the Vermont DMV anyways to see what they say.

[mike6024]

This is confusing. They are in Vermont, you want to go through the Vermont DMV, get them registered then get a Florida title and move them to Florida. As best I understand.

 

The value assigned in Vermont is way too high because they want to collect excessive tax from you?

 

Since I live in California I cannot be of help. I did get a title for an abandoned car in California which was still in the system, but the previous owner was nowhere to be found. Sorry for going off on a tangent. Every situation is different and states are different so it depends on the details.

 

 

[Frank DuVal]

3 hours ago, bloodowl89 said:

I would hate to work on these vehicles only to have the inspection have some undesirable results. Any thoughts on this?

 

Your thought process is right, get the titles straight before investing money in the vehicles.👍

 

Not living in Vermont or Florida, I can not help with the process.

 

I can suggest asking Vermont DMV if you can submit estimates of value from used car dealers instead of them using the NADA value (I looked it up, you are right, $16K! for low retail). 

[padgett]

Have spent over a year before to get proper papers for a car in Florida but you have to REALLY want to.

[1950panhead]

Quote

I'm hoping one day that it may be but if I am to go through Vermont  how can I register a vehicle needing that much work done in its current state with a more accurately reflected value?

Vermont does this for the money, condition is irrelevant.

Visit Florida dmv, follow Florida procedure.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by 1950panhead (see edit history)

[bloodowl89]

3 hours ago, padgett said:

Have spent over a year before to get proper papers for a car in Florida but you have to REALLY want to.

So if I may ask how did you go about getting yours?

2 hours ago, 1950panhead said:

Vermont does this for the money, condition is irrelevant.

Visit Florida dmv, follow Florida procedure.

 

The reason I can't follow Florida procedure is one, these are vehicles I'm wanting to work on and have no insurance on them but the more important reason is that he never had the vehicles titles signed over to him. That, to my understanding, leaves an open title. The original owners are deceased so there is no correcting it that way, and I don't even know where the titles are. I'm definitely going to look for them. Either way it's just a big complex process. To my understanding they were parked in the woods, broke down, or unwanted, and he needed a vehicle. They were gifted to him via bill of sale, but then he found a ride in better shape and went with that. They did give him the vehicles, but he never officially got the titles transferred. So now that I have shown interest he is giving them to me but I want to actually get titles. The only two ways I know of are by bonded title or this process of going through Vermont, and then exchanging owner registration for title in Florida after a VIN inspection. I'm wondering if this means I'll likely have to take the chance on working on the vehicles before I get the title anyways, If anyone can clarify what I may have missed I would greatly appreciate it.

[39BuickEight]

In Kentucky, a VIN inspection involves rubbing it against a piece of paper with a crayon or pencil to create an outline of it.  I guess that gives them confidence hat you actually have the vehicle in your possession.  I'm sure most other states do something a little more formal, as in an actual inspection in person by a sheriff or the like.

[bloodowl89]

Ah, ok. Haha. Well I just got off of the phone with the DMV. She said she wasn't sure if the Vermont thing would work because she said if the titles are in Florida then Florida rules apply which is that you need a title. I specifically read that this could work regardless of what state you are applying to Vermont from and in Vermont it's not for titles anyways, it's just for plates/tags/owner registration. Also I read that this could be for the fact of ownership being "transferred" multiple times but without titles being signed. You also need proof of insurance in Florida and neither of these vehicles are even drivable. The bonded title I'm not even sure about. The only thing the DMV really offered was that if my dad came in with a death certificate of my great grandmother and grandfather, they could give out info, perhaps to me as well about ownership, etc. I don't want to try going through Vermont and have something look really bad and get in a bunch of trouble or have my dad get in trouble. Bottom line is the original titles are lost, nowhere to be found, possibly even destroyed, or thrown away, and with the process that has happened I'm just trying to work towards getting titles for them at some point. I need to do more research. She even said something about having a court appoint them, lol. I've never been a big fan of laws for this reason. They seem to overcompensate for something not necessary and look the other way when needed. *sighs* Any thoughts with this info on the table? Haha

[mike6024]

If this was California I'd have your dad just sign off a form that he needed a replacement title because he lost the old one. Technically that is true if he had a bill of sale which is as good as a title as far as I'm concerned. In California then you'd apply for a replacement title since the title was lost. There is a form for that. i would think Florida or Vermont, or any state would have something comparable.

 

Tell them you want to apply for replacement of a lost title and see what they say.

 

These vehicles were always in the family so you, the family, have title. Just not on paper.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[Bloo]

55 minutes ago, bloodowl89 said:

The only thing the DMV really offered was that if my dad came in with a death certificate of my great grandmother and grandfather, they could give out info, perhaps to me as well about ownership, etc.

 

Do it. Do it now. Try to get the same clerk.

 

Title laws exist to prevent illegitimate transfers through theft or coercion. Don't talk about things like Vermont, especially to the DMV. Trying to circumvent the law will just piss them off.

 

Desperate measures could come later if necessary.

[bloodowl89]

9 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

Do it. Do it now. Try to get the same clerk.

 

Title laws exist to prevent illegitimate transfers through theft or coercion. Don't talk about things like Vermont, especially to the DMV. Trying to circumvent the law will just piss them off.

 

Desperate measures could come later if necessary.

Well I can do that but the only thing that will accomplish is literally telling me who owns the vehicle which could be useful info, but not really fixing the situation with this title process. I'm looking into other options but if anyone has any tips, further advice, etc, I welcome it with open arms. I'm hoping that I can obtain the vehicles and keep them in the family, it if nothing else just be able to work on them and restore them.

[Bloo]

Knowing that, and knowing the address could potentially be a big help in my state.

 

There are a ton of old title threads on this forum, and all of them are trainwrecks because the law is different in all 50 states. Only real information from your state will help.

 

Gather all the information you can. If someone at the DMV is willing to do that, I would be all over it.

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

These cars were owned by the grandparents, then given or sold to dad. So why would you want to ask the DMV who their records show as the owner?

 

<sigh> Why do I participate in title threads?

 

Let me give you a probably irrelevant-to-Florida example.

 

Some family friends of mine had a similar situation back in the 70s. Now in Washington, at that time (and probably still), there were plenty of small towns where they did not have mail delivery. Everyone had a post office box, and their cars were registered to it. In Washington, at that time (and maybe still), the legal owner did not have to be present to request a lost title. If he was present, he could update his address and the DMV would send him the title. If the legal owner was not present, the state would mail the title to the legal owner, at his last known address. In this particular case the legal owner had been dead for years, but post office boxes were a waiting list item, and a family member had kept it for himself. The title came to the post office box and was retrieved.

 

With a paper title in hand, (not signed of course because the legal owner was dead), and the death certificate, and whatever documents Washington required, he was able to go into the DMV and transfer ownership.

 

The absolute first thing I would want to know about any car with a title problem is who the legal owner is, and his/her last known address (according to the state).

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[padgett]

Well in the case of a car that was titled in Florida I had to do three things:

- Find the person whose name was on the title

- Obtain a legal release (POA) and Bill of Sale from that person

-Petition the state for a new title.

For a Fiero this took about a year.

The other time I inherited a car, this was actually more difficult since it also had a $600 lien in a different state but also took about a year. Fortunately this was before the "new tag fee". Floridians need to have at least one free tag at all times.

The other option is to assemble a car from at least three donors with different VINs. In this case Florida will issue a VIN and brand the title.

[mike6024]

My car was in the system under the name of someone who disappeared, or maybe even passed away. No reason not to ask the DMV who they have on record as the owner, but if it's always been in the family there should be no surprises. Hopefully. And if it's been unregistered for decades it likely has dropped out of their system and they'd have no records on it.

 

[JFranklin]

5 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

 And if it's been unregistered for decades it likely has dropped out of their system and they'd have no records on it.

 

I have a motorcycle that was last registered in '74. The Oregon dmv wanted full back registration so it sits in the barn still with 3k miles on it. 

[padgett]

Never had Florida ask for back registration. In fact I have a car that is titled but not registered since is "under restoration". If not on the road and kept inside, no registration needed.

In fact I have an unused m/c plate at the moment...

Every state is different. (we keep the politicians, lawyers, and state college as far from anything useful as possible)

[bloodowl89]

33 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

My car was in the system under the name of someone who disappeared, or maybe even passed away. No reason not to ask the DMV who they have on record as the owner, but if it's always been in the family there should be no surprises. Hopefully. And if it's been unregistered for decades it likely has dropped out of their system and they'd have no records on it.

 

I'm not sure if this is what you mean but when I got the VIN numbers and the previous plates for the vehicle literally nothing showed up. It was like there was no records at all pertaining to the vehicles in question. I'm wondering now if a Certificate of Title bond would be better for the current situation. What do you guys think?

[mike6024]

19 minutes ago, bloodowl89 said:

literally nothing showed up.

 

When nothing shows up that should be the best, easiest situation.

 

I would just fill out the form, saying the title is lost, and request a replacement. That is how it works in California. If you go in to register a car that has been off the road for decades, it is not in the system (computer system) so you take in your title (we call it a pink-slip because it is pink here) and they enter the data like the VIN in their computer, you pay, and get your registration.

 

But if you don't have the title, there is the extra step, of asking for a replacement for a lost title. You must sign a statement saying you lost it, which implies it is your car and not stolen.

 

Other states should have this type of procedure for cars "out of the system" and with lost titles.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[bloodowl89]

9 hours ago, mike6024 said:

 

When nothing shows up that should be the best, easiest situation.

 

I would just fill out the form, saying the title is lost, and request a replacement. That is how it works in California. If you go in to register a car that has been off the road for decades, it is not in the system (computer system) so you take in your title (we call it a pink-slip because it is pink here) and they enter the data like the VIN in their computer, you pay, and get your registration.

 

But if you don't have the title, there is the extra step, of asking for a replacement for a lost title. You must sign a statement saying you lost it, which implies it is your car and not stolen.

 

Other states should have this type of procedure for cars "out of the system" and with lost titles.

 

 

 

I think what I am concerned about is I would think surely if I did go through that process and got the replacement title and all that the only claim to both vehicles I could make is based of my dad having just bill of sales for both vehicles and then me having bills of sales for them going to me. If they came back under my grandpa and great grandma then I might be back in the same boat but I'd at least have titles reflecting what the originals say, wherever they are for that matter. I wonder how all this works and if that would truly be enough to show owner ship. Also, not sure if it would be enough to indicate but I have both last existing license plates for both vehicles with their last registration stickers the 63 Chevy was last registered in June 1982 and the 72 Dodge was last registered in May 1979, so we are talking almost 40 years since either of these have been re-registered for and that should roughly reflect how long they have been sitting in the woods. I even have pictures of the vehicles too, haha. So do you think the titles would be easy to just claim as lost and what do you think the best process would be here in this case scenario now? I can't say for sure that I am the "rightful" owner due to the titles never exchanging between the two parties and my dad. I could say in a way that I am because of these bill of sales transactions and the fact that no one else would even have a footing to stand on to claim either of these vehicles, unless, and it's a big one, that another rightful heir learned of this and took it to court, but over a couple of rust buckets? Stranger things have happened I'm sure. Hahaha. 

[JACK M]

17 hours ago, JFranklin said:

I have a motorcycle that was last registered in '74. The Oregon dmv wanted full back registration so it sits in the barn still with 3k miles on it. 

 

I have an old BSA in the garage, I think its a 67 and title is in my name, Hasn't run in probably 30 years.

If the state wants back fees it would be a big surprise to me.

I think I could have it running in a weekend, but have been putting it off for those 30 years.

Maybe I should bring it to the swap meet this year.

[ron hausmann]

       I’ve titled several junk cars in Michigan. Mine were painless. They were antiques. Go in, tell them you bought the junked car to restore, pay the sales tax on the junk car purchase price that you tell them, pay the title fee, and they mail it to you.

      You may need a Michigan address.

      Michigan May have age rules that I’m not familiar with. My four cars were 1920’s

       Very easy. 
       Ron Hausmann P.E.

[bloodowl89]

Ok. So what I have settled on for the time being is this: (I want to run this by the people on here to see what they think) Rather than go through Vermont, Alabama apparently works similarly or the same way and it's much closer. Now, in order to register a vehicle it has to be running and road worthy. I'm not sure as of yet if in Alabama you pay taxes on the NADA value, or for the price paid just yet, but I obviously have to get the vehicles running first. If I do this to a minor extent, just enough to meet criteria for registration, I can get them registered. not take the chance of sinking too much money prior to registering, and not increase the potential taxable value. Now the interesting part is I hear that most states purge records every 5-7 years for unregistered vehicles. These have been unregistered since '79 and '82 so 30-40 years which would easily more than meet the criteria for being out of the system so they need to be re-registered.This would explain why both VIN and plates returned nothing on the vehicles. This is where Alabama comes in and I have my Bill of Sale to get them registered. Also in Vermont,  NADA low value is used, (ex. $16,600 on '63 Chevy c10) a dealer can be consulted and appraise them at less and that be taxed instead. If this is the same it saves a lot of money in the long run which can go towards other things at that point. When the vehicles are registered to Alabama, I can turn around and transfer them over to the Florida process to get titles and everything for the most part should be right as rain and I "should" be free to restore the vehicles and hopefully make my late grandfather and great-grandmother proud. How does this sound?