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1903 Cleveland Roadster project


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3 minutes ago, trimacar said:

On the bending of wood strips or reed, the airplane guys soak it in an ammonia solution.  After a certain time, the wood or reed turns “plastic”, and you can bend it to any shape you want.

Hello trimacar,

Thank you, I will give it a try, would be easier than steam bending.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

I used this "Reed" material on a 1912  Model T Ford Tourabout body project.  I could get it to fit nicely and was able to tack it in place but was not overly impressed with the finished product.  I could never get the finish to hold like it should, and I played with it a bunch.  This is just my 2 cents thought..... (maybe it was the quality of the material that I could find at the time....I don't know).

Al 

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Reed as well as ash (or sometimes poplar) trim was what was used originally. It is common to see a combination of reed & ash trim on the same car.  Ash is a good wood for bending and you can make your own half round trim or buy it commercially made from ash. Some curves were bent and others were cut curved from solid blocks of wood.  I am working on a 05 car that has 5/8 wide flat trim with the edges rounded over. I will have to make that myself out of ash and steam bend it.

 

You can bend wood either by soaking it or heating it or both with steam heat. There is a commercial soaking additive you can buy for bending or you can use a home remedy. I have heard of using Downy Fabric Softener or ammonia as was suggested. You should be concerned as to how chemical residue left behind after the wood dries as to how it might effect paint & glue. However you make wood pliable, it will swell up and shrink down as it dries and will be too wet to glue/nail in place for several days, depending on how long you soaked it and your drying conditions. Once you make it pliable you should bend the trim in place and clamp it until it dries and holds it's shape and then glue and nail in place. You can also make forms to bend the wood around but it will have to be clamped to the form until dry. Wood does not stretch but it does compress. Tyr to force the wood together on the inside of the bend without stretching the outside of the bend to prevent splitting the wood. Wrinkles on the inside bend can be sanded out after the wood dries but splitting will be a problem. 

 

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Hello, to start with, I got a very nice birthday present from Anna: a large 12" disk sander. Heavy, for such a compact machine, 100 lbs... One of these days I must make a stand with swivel wheels for it. Much to heavy to carry around, me not 20 anymore😊

 

1090910538_Stationarydisksander.jpg.e4eb8404f95950cde881045a95967034.jpg

Disk sander

 

Today, I used the sander a lot, for fitting the moldings under the front seat. A lot of sanding was needed to get them fitted. To increase the strength of the glued joint, I used 6  1/4" wooden dowels between the body and the molding. 

 

1102525541_Moldingunderfrontseatdriverside.jpg.3dcf7a1311acb36f0e8af294a22eb665.jpg

Molding drivers side, dowels clearly visible.

 

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Molding driver side, just glued it.

 

Furthermore I started building a simple steam box. Using some Youtube movies as guidance, building one is straight forward. Will use the household steam cleaner, obtained permission from Anna 😀.

 

969503709_Steambox.jpg.3319adbcbbbb87ce712f28150a8fcdbc.jpg

Steam box

 

Regards,

Harm

 

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The body is starting to look very good. Happy Birthday - 21 again?! :)

 

2 minutes ago, Sloth said:

Will use the household steam cleaner,

 

Do you think you will get enough steam with this. I used 2 converted pressure cookers on camping gas rings for steaming the bows for the top for my Humberette (hood bows).

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1 hour ago, Mike Macartney said:

The body is starting to look very good. Happy Birthday - 21 again?! :)

 

 

Do you think you will get enough steam with this. I used 2 converted pressure cookers on camping gas rings for steaming the bows for the top for my Humberette (hood bows).

Hello Mike,

Thank you. 21, well, in my mind yes, but almost every morning my chassis tells me another story 😊.

Regarding steam production, I will give it a try. If it is not enough, I have a large propane gas ring, this together with a large water kettle will do (I guess).

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

I certainly hope you shared an invigorating B-Day with Anna guiding the way!  Your body is looking very nice!  Keep up the good work!  I am also building a "home-brew" steamer based very closely up on a design that Mike M. tested out and verified that it will work.  Mike's experience really got me fluffed up to get my wood bending projects into full swing!    I am using some left over metal pipe that I intend to insulate for my steam chambers.  My wife has a household steamer also, but I am hesitant to put the "bee" on her to use it in the shop and take it out of the house.  It is important to keep the little ladies happy so they will be understanding and supportive of some of the things we do.

Al

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Hello,

Some time ago, and with a lot of help of Alsfarms, thanks Al 🤗,  I made a drawing of the sills (thresholds) for the Cleveland. They are 'deep etched' by a company who are specialized in this kind of technique. Today I received them, I am really pleased with these sills, the are sharp and crisp etched. Only thing left to do, rounding the ends.

 

1470566304_Clevelandsillplate.jpg.1c18c0f65bc5d8cc2f4c598ad0475e73.jpg

Threshold for the Cleveland

 

Continued building the steam box, and cleaned the moldings below the front seat from excess glue.

Regards,

Harm

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Today I completed the moldings for the front seat. They are about 3/4" wide and 3/16" thick. On an picture I got of the car of Roger Weiss and a picture of a sales catalog, one can clearly see that the molding on the front seats are not half round, but flat and fairly wide. I made them from an ash board, planed to a thickness of 3/16". I clearly had a to learn how to do that. My planers minimum is 1/4", so I put the board with two sided tape on a piece of plywood,  then planing very thin layers from the ash. First time, the ash was catapulted through the shop, the plywood was still on the planer... 😲. No harm done to Harm and his shop cats. The next try, was planing with thin layers. After the planing, it was plane sailing, sawing the molding parts out of  the board. A bit of sanding, rounding the inside of the molding, and glued and tacked the pieces on the seat.

 

276906857_Flatmoldingonfrontseat.jpg.c34a18e6033a8f24d38555bea8a65609.jpg

Front seat molding

 

For keeping the tonneau in position on the under body I will use dowels. I used two round pieces of 3/4" beech wood, very though and strong. I will use two dowels on the rear frame of the tonneau and two dowels on the upper frame. Further I have to make two steel brackets with thumb screws to lock the tonneau on the under body. Measuring the position of the dowels on the tonneau and the under body, and holding both in line,  took a lot of time. After drilling the holes, the dowels fitted nicely in under body and tonneau frame, so no need for elongated holes, I am happy!

 

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Dowel in rear frame of the tonneau

 

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Both dowels glued in the rear frame of the tonneau

 

Today, I tried again to order 1/2" cane for the tonneau seat. I asked the sales person (who was very knowledgeable on the subject) what his thoughts are, on using cane for molding purposes. He was positive about it, but he warned me that the dimension of the cane I asked for, was impregnated to make it water repellent. So I can't use that, not for ammonia and not for steam bending. He told me, as he has to order a new large batch of cane, he also will order some not treated cane.  This will take some time, we will see... We also discussed the use of an  ammonia solution for bending. He told me, that years ago, they used it successfully for some time, but after a while, experienced loss of quality of the cane. Further more, paint and lacquer did nor stick well on it, so they reverted to steam bending.

Regards,

Harm

 

Edited by Sloth
A lot of errors, just not my day for writing.... (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Have you "steamed up" your steamer?  I am curious to learn of your success with steaming your body moldings.

Al

Hello Al,

Not yet, everything is ready, but the weather must improve a bit. I don't like to do the steaming inside the shop (moist  and machines.... you know what happens).

Regards,

Harm

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Hello harm,

I must have some patience....my hinges have not yet arrived!  I think I have sorted out exactly how to fit and finish the rear entrance latch.  I like the latch lock device simple yet effective.  You must be thinking ahead on the mechanics of your Cleveland.

Al

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4 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello harm,

I must have some patience....my hinges have not yet arrived!  I think I have sorted out exactly how to fit and finish the rear entrance latch.  I like the latch lock device simple yet effective.  You must be thinking ahead on the mechanics of your Cleveland.

Al

Hello Al,

Your are right, patience is a nice thing, I don't have much of that stuff (as I am told by Anna...) And me too, still waiting for the hinges. Thinking ahead on the mechanics, well, completing the body proved to be a good thing. Some of my ideas on the mechanics (gear shifting mechanism) needs re evaluation🙁. In short: the shifting mechanism as it is now, does not fit nicely under the seat. But first I have to complete the body, without any adjustments left for a later date...

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

Linkages....hmmmm!  You are wise to get the body completed then work to fit and finish the linkages.  Does the planetary shifter come up through the drivers seat, by your right leg?  If I count rightly, you have the transmission shift lever, a foot brake, a hand brake, the carb. adjuster (throttle) and the spark adjuster.  We have to be omnidexterous to run one of these early automobiles unlike the new cars that do all the thinking for us.  We actually have to think and act to run an early automobile!

Regards,

Al

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19 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Linkages....hmmmm!  You are wise to get the body completed then work to fit and finish the linkages.  Does the planetary shifter come up through the drivers seat, by your right leg?  If I count rightly, you have the transmission shift lever, a foot brake, a hand brake, the carb. adjuster (throttle) and the spark adjuster.  We have to be omnidexterous to run one of these early automobiles unlike the new cars that do all the thinking for us.  We actually have to think and act to run an early automobile!

Regards,

Al

Hello Al,

Yes the shifter for the gears, the handbrake and the ignition timer, come up on the right hand side through the seat, indeed by the right leg. The floor pedals are for the brakes, throttle and muffler cut out (+ a bell pedal, which I don't have -neither bell nor pedal- ). Furthermore, at the heel board under de front seat (seems to me as being more a leather flap), you will find the on/off handle for the oilers (3 of them), the carburetor choke and the on/off switch for the ignition + a switch for battery 1 or battery 2. Usually telephone batteries, what ever they may be.

With exception of the oilers, its the same number of manual controls as I have at the 1909 Flanders, but just situated on other locations. I am very curious how the planetary gear box behaves.

Regards,

Harm

 

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Hello Harm,

Yup, you and I will have to use some creative license to do all the linkages and make them work as they should with the proper range and motion.

Al

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 3:17 PM, alsfarms said:

We actually have to think and act to run an early automobile!

 

At least you and Al have a steering wheel on your Cleveland cars. With the 'tiller steering' on the Crestmobile if you take your eye of the road in front you are often then literally "off the road"! 

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Hello Mike,

But you have all the "Charm" and "Charisma" of the true early age of the automobile!  Long live the tiller!  Harm is moving right along with his project, more speedily than I.....at least currently.  Keep up the good work Harm!

Al

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Hello gentlemen, this morning, I started in the workshop at 8 o'clock. Today's target was to put the tonneau body together.  Well at 19.00 hr ,  mission accomplished, I am a bit (very) tired now 😊. So unexpectedly,  it took me the whole day to complete this task. The reason for this is simple, for a dry run, I assembled the tonneau without glue, and left -so here and there- some screws out. (does not really matter that much...uhhh)  Everything fitted nicely, so I disassembled the whole tonneau. Then started to put it together with glue and all the screws. Mmm, needs some adjustment here and some attention there, well I thought it fitted nicely one hour or so ago 😥. Long story short, even at a dry run, one shall install ALL the fasteners which are initial foreseen, or you have to fix a lot of small -but time consuming- adjustments!  I must admit, I forgot this lesson,  I remember it  happened to me  before, oh those shortcuts.... But I am very happy now, the tonneau looks very nice and is sturdy. Now I have to wait  two days,  letting the glue fully harden, and then remove the excess glue and sand the whole tonneau.  So I can truly say, the end is near      (for this part of restoring the Cleveland that is....).

This afternoon I got message from the post office, they received a package for me. I hope the hinges are in the package, will get it Monday. Coming days some brackets must be forged. And now its time for a nice gin tonic☺️.

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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Hello Harm,

I am hoping along with you that your surprise package has your new hinges nestled comfortably inside just waiting for the touch of the masters hand.  I am hoping to have a very similar package with my hinges inside, shortly.

Regards,

Alan

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Hello, "To hinge or not to hinge" that was the question.

YES, this afternoon I received the hinges, and (to my surprise)  about 40'  1/2" diameter cane. Hinges and cane are of excellent quality. So tomorrow its steam bending time, if the weather behaves as promised.

 

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Hinges, brass,  4"long 1 1/2" wide and 1/4" thick, rust free steel hinge pin.

 

463283556_Cane1.thumb.jpg.71e58fae64367e6c5ae03882078a5120.jpg

Untreated cane, 1/2"diameter.

Regards,

Harm

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On 2/2/2020 at 3:28 PM, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Have you sorted out your rear door latch and finished it up?

Regards,

Al

Hello Al,

Not yet, first hinges and the cane. And then some brackets.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

Well.... my post man came and left a package.  I was excited but it certainly was not my hinges!  Maybe tomorrow!  I am interested to see how you are going to split the cane and make it flat on one side so you can bend it to fit your body.

Regards,

Alan

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Hello gentlemen, today I had a productive day. Started early, the target was to attach the moldings on the tonneau. First, split the cane in half round pieces each 1/4" thick (the cane has a diameter of 1/2"). I  tried to split the cane by knife, it worked, inch by inch and not nice in appearance, but after 20 inches I was worn out . So, after a some heavy thinking (2 seconds), I just planed it to thickness. The planer made short work of it  ( 1/4" thick). Tried to bend the cane, first by steam, but after half an hour the steamer gave up the ghost. So what to do? I could bend it by hand, so I tried it. Must say, it went really good, and much easier than I thought and managed to make them off one piece of cane for each side.

All the moldings are done, even the door came out nice. I am relieved that this job went so well and quick, thanks to the excellent quality of the cane. For attaching the molding to the tonneau, I used PU glue and very thin nails (I used a pneumatic nailing machine with small 3/4" long thin nails with T-head). Furthermore, I adjusted the air pressure for the pneumatic nailing machine to the lowest possible, workable setting. If not, you shoot the nail right through the cane and destroy it....

 

1272138478_Tonneaumoldingrightside.jpg.5641456607611d0273e57f962781f49b.jpg

Tonneau molding right side

 

1213378568_Detail2tonneaumolding.jpg.fc139f24a48ae6962d2e8654e33358c3.jpg

Detail of tonneau molding

 

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Tonneau molding rear side

 

Tomorrow removal of the excess glue, than start sanding and filling all the small holes and  sanding again and so on. That phase of the project is certainly not one of my favorite jobs, but I know, very important for getting a nice end result. One wood job left: the floor boards. I make them, as soon as I am really sure that the engine and the control mechanics fits under them.

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth
Spelling error (see edit history)
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Hello Harm,

Do you think the steaming had any  effect on the cane as you worked those tight corners and had it lay down as nicely as it did?  You have done a very nice job and your craftsmanship certainly is top notch.

Regards,

Alan

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18 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Do you think the steaming had any  effect on the cane as you worked those tight corners and had it lay down as nicely as it did?  You have done a very nice job and your craftsmanship certainly is top notch.

Regards,

Alan

Hello Allan,

Sorry, can't tell, because my steamer broke before the cane was properly steamed. Thanks for the compliments.

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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Yesterday, removing excess glue and started sanding the Cleveland body. Had not much energy and a terrible headache (not a hangover 😊,  just an area of low pressure is approaching, that means bad weather!). Woke up this morning, a lot of noise outside. At the moment a heavy storm is blowing. They called her "Ciara", and a strong girl she is. The forecast for the next hours: she will increase in strength. Furthermore, thunder and a lot of rain, I think, we can do without this kind of weather. Mike you may keep Ciara 😄.

Regards,

Harm

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Don't blame us in the UK, just because we are leaving the EU! :) It looks as if all this wind, rain, hail has come from the WEST. I blame them there Americans!

 

On a serious note, I hope everything is OK with you and your property. We were OK, here in Norfolk, apart from a power cut in the afternoon and evening. We had a nice candlelit evening in front of the wood burner and early to bed. This morning it seems that the voltage is lower than normal and I am typing this under a flickering LED bulb in the kitchen.

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