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1903 Cleveland Roadster project


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4 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Hayden Eames (pronounced "Ames"...the "E" is silent. It is a very very old name in Massachusetts) was an ex-US Navy ordinance officer. He inspected Colt revolvers for the navy (his initials can be found on the M1899 Colt Navy revolver) and was later assigned to the Bridgeport Projectile Company where he became very friendly with Hiram Percy Maxim. When he left the Navy he went to work for Col. Pope of Columbia Bicycle (and Pope Hartford, Pope Toledo etc.). He introduced Maxim to Pope and his general manager. Maixm (who was the son of Hiram Maxim, inventor of the Maxim gun) became the chief automotive designer for Pope. Eames later went to work for Studebaker and was instrumental in Studebaker's purchase of EMF. He was a very important, if little known, player in the early American Auto industry.

Hello Joe,

Than you for your comment, I find it very interesting. I searched the internet and my literature books , but no mentioning of Hayden Ames. To me its seems likely that he was involved in the delivery of parts for the manufacturing of the Cleveland. Parts, as rear and front axle, brakes and a lot of small stuff, as mentioned and pictured in the catalogs are exact  (form and dimensions) what I have. As soon as I have my scanner up and running again, I will show more of the catalogs.

Regards,

Harm Slot

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18 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Does your little literature stash suggest which manufacturers purchased parts from them?

Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan,

No, in a separate catalog the electric car made by Hercules/Westinghouse is mentioned, that is the only one.

Regards,

Harm

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It's an unusual name, especially with the archaic spelling, and I've come across it twice. The first time was when I edited a book on US Navy small arms and his name came up. The second time was in a very good little book entitled "Horseless Carriage Days" by Hiram Percy Maxim. If you haven't seen Maxim's book you should get it. I believe a reprint is available. The original edition was published posthumously in 1937 so it is pretty rare.

Maxim's book is dedicated to Hayden Eames.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Joe,

How successful has the trip been to the UK?  Nice background information regarding Hayden Eames.  It would certainly be interesting to know more of the "back story" of our early automobiles.

Regards,

Al

It's been my most successful research trip and I've been here more than twenty times in the last thirty years. I have a pile of work to get through when I get back just collating and transcribing the material I've found but I am happy to have it. I leave tomorrow morning. It's a long trip back even living on the east coast but I'll have plenty of time to read on the plane and I've my usual pile of books so, aside from the airport, I'm looking forward to the flight.

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Posted (edited)

Hello, today got my scanner up and running. So as promised herewith the first installment of the Hayden Ames catalog of 1902 or 3 (I am not sure), addressing the rear axle. Due to the amount of data, the complete publication of this catalog will be done in 3 installments. Total 20 pages, picture resolution = 600 x 800 pixels. If one needs I higher resolution of some pages, please send me a PM. Here we go with the first 7 pages.

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Front cover page

 

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Page 1

 

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Page 2

 

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Page 3

 

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Page 4

 

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Page 6

 

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Page 6

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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It looks as if Eames went into the business of selling components for assembled cars. This would be after he left the Pope Mfg. Co. and before he was associated with Studebaker. It is interesting that he references the Norton Grinding Company. Norton effectively invented cylindrical grinding, a technique that was slow to be adopted in Europe as it was feared the grinding process would leave the surface of the parts with abrasive particles embedded in them. These would likely have been very high quality parts made as accurately as the technology of the time permitted.

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Hello Harm,

I am going to keep a copy of your information in my Cleveland file.  Thanks for the effort in posting the pictures.

Regards,

Alan

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Second installment with 7 pages of the Hayden Eames rear axle catalog. Tomorrow the remaining 7 pages will follow.

 

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Page 7

 

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Page 8

 

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Page 9

 

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Page 10

 

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Page 11

 

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Page 12

 

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Page 13

 

I guess there are not many catalogs with this kind of information are left. Two years ago, I made some pictures of a Mitchell of 1903, its seems that Mitchell in those years used parts acquired through Hayden Eames. One can clearly recognize the rear and front axle, as are pictured in the catalogs. So I think Cleveland was not the only one, who bought parts through Hayden Eames.

 

Regarding the restoration of the Cleveland, not much done these days. Anna wants to have the vegetable garden tiller-ed. A few weeks ago, I bought a new for me, second hand Iseki small tractor CUT), type TA235, 23 HP. I am busy now to adapt our Kubota tiller to the Iseki, first thought easy peasy. Second more realistic thought, ouch, that will be a lot of welding and machine work. I am now in the middle of it ☹️ I hope....

Regards,

Harm

 

 

 

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Hello Harm,

Thanks for the pictures of parts and pieces from the catalog.  I must say most impressive!  You must have a very good eye for searching for literature as your purchase is very relevant to your Cleveland.  If you get your and Anna's garden tilled, lets see how busy you will be shortly.  I was luck to get all our yard leaves tilled into our garden last fall.  In a couple of weeks we will get prepared and get our onions in the ground.

Regards,

Alan

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Third installment of the last 6 pages of the Hayden Eames rear axle catalog.

 

1787692632_Rearaxlepage14.thumb.jpg.187c6aa06bff1ae1343b60e863d8b061.jpg

Page 14

 

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Page 15

 

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Page 16

 

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Page 17

 

 

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Page 18

 

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Page 19

 

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Rear cover page

 

This installment completes the copy of the rear axle catalog.

Regards,

Harm

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

This is great information indeed!  Thanks for posting.

Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan,

You are welcome.

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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Hello Harm,

How did you come out with the new tractor and tilling the garden spot?  Any new developments on the rear axle rebuild?

Regards,

Al

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

How did you come out with the new tractor and tilling the garden spot?  Any new developments on the rear axle rebuild?

Regards,

Al

Hello Alan,

It went very well. The tractor has some kind of tilling computer on board, so the tilling went very smooth. But I still have no clear understanding of all the knobs on the control panel for the rear hitch. Its all Japanese to me 😆....

 

Regarding the rear axle, I ordered felt for oil seals of the rear bearings, still waiting for it. The weather is slowly improving and its getting warmer, so with some luck I hope on the end of next week  painting the rear axle.

 

The Corona virus measures taken by our government, having more and more impact on our social life. Next Monday, Anna and I would attend a funeral of a former colleague of me, but this morning we got a letter of the family, stating that the funeral will be held with a very much restricted attendance, so we are not going. This makes the loss of husband and father for the family even worse. Furthermore, most of our friends and family stay at home as is advised by our government. Nearly all social and sport events are canceled, our favorite cafe and restaurant is closed. Groceries are no problem, we can order them online, most supermarkets have excellent delivery services.

Regards,

Harm

 

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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Hello Harm,

You mentioned being socially impacted by the current Pandemic, hhhmmmm.  That social disruption is also happening here in the US.  Living in a rural area, I already understand some implications of a "quite life".  My wife and I are simply pulling back and are trying to dance by the current music, so to speak.  On top of the Pandemic stress I woke up yesterday morning with my bed rocking and rolling......a 5.7 earthquake happened 160 miles away near Salt Lake City.  Some damage, power out, gas leaks but no death, (but none for us).  The last few days I have spent by myself, in the orchard, pruning trees and getting cleaned up for the new upcoming fruit season.  I have one early Apricot in bloom already!  Any new Cleveland developments over on your side of the pond?

Regards,

Alan

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

You mentioned being socially impacted by the current Pandemic, hhhmmmm.  That social disruption is also happening here in the US.  Living in a rural area, I already understand some implications of a "quite life".  My wife and I are simply pulling back and are trying to dance by the current music, so to speak.  On top of the Pandemic stress I woke up yesterday morning with my bed rocking and rolling......a 5.7 earthquake happened 160 miles away near Salt Lake City.  Some damage, power out, gas leaks but no death, (but none for us).  The last few days I have spent by myself, in the orchard, pruning trees and getting cleaned up for the new upcoming fruit season.  I have one early Apricot in bloom already!  Any new Cleveland developments over on your side of the pond?

Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan,

O boy, the Corona virus alone is more than enough to conquer, but having an earthquake on top of it, is terrible. I hope you an your family stay well. Alan, are earthquakes more or less common in Utah? Heavy earthquakes are unknown in the Netherlands, we have some small ones in the northern part of the Netherlands, they are caused by natural gas winning. Social life over here is coming to a full stop, many shops are voluntarily closed (nearly no customers anymore). Restaurants, sport clubs, museums, well all  public facilities are closed. Many (most) manifestations are canceled. We are asked by our government to stay at home, we expect that after the weekend it will be law.

No Cleveland progress made, this morning I received the felt for the oil seals of the rear axle bearings. In between, I started building of an front end loader for my Iseki tractor. Its not complicated,  just a lot of work. Some years ago, I build a small front end loader for our John Deere X740 garden tractor. But the X740 is just a bit to small, although we did a lot of work with it. (absolutly better than a wheel barrow 😃).

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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Hello Harm,

I agree with you on your loader project being better than a shovel and wheel barrow!  I could not survive without my loader tractor!  Elsewhere. on forums I am still trying to figure out how to manipulate a Cleveland picture in order to get a better "view" from which I can take scale measurements.  That is one way I am filling up the time while waiting out the Coronavirus Pandemic.  I must admit, I am not much enjoying being compelled to stay home and lay low!  However, much better to do my part stop the spread of the virus until it runs its course.  Do you play much with your other antique automobiles?

Regards,

Alan

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Hello all,

To night, our Prime Minister announced new stringent measures. Most importantly, we all have to stay at home, all non essential shops will be closed, gatherings of more than 2 persons are forbidden,  mayors of large cities may legally close parks, beaches and so on. Fines for not obeying these rules/law will be in the range of $ 450 for persons and $4500 for companies. All measures are valid to at least the first of June, and will be forced, where necessary, by the police. To summarize all this: the Netherlands are in practice, locked down (although our government does not call it so). I just listened to the British prime minister, same message, same measures.

So that leaves me with a lot of time to continue with restoring the Cleveland. No need for preparing my other cars for the summer outings. All car club activities are suspended. Weird times....

Regards,

Harm

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Posted (edited)

Today, I started with the rear axle. First I needed the  the retaining rings. Could not find the retaining rings 😡, searched high and low, no rings. So after some bad language, I decided to make replacement rings 4x (Position F on the drawing). Furthermore cut out the felt rings 4x (position I and K on the drawing). Fitting the retaining rings took a lot of time. Those things are not flat, but are slightly upward curved, just enough to keep the balls in, and enough play to cause no friction between the ball and the retaining ring.

 

1996607408_Diagramofrearaxlebearing.thumb.jpg.6659c4a2128847be059e835c601177f5.jpg

Diagram of rear axle bearing

 

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Result of to days effort

 

352351044_Rearaxlebearing2.jpg.d2dd0d756e044f6b9959e3e3c58fd5ed.jpg

Completed rear axle bearing, left side of axle (left side of bearing).

 

1064826671_Rearaxlebearing3.jpg.404a2e4a2ff247e716b9e75080429382.jpg

Completed rear axle bearing, left side of axle (right side of bearing).

 

Regards,

Harm

 

Edited by Sloth
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Hello Harm,

Much ado about the Coronavirus!  We best certainly play by the rules.  Parts of the US are really starting to get serious now.  We have had our first fatality in Utah.  I am impressed that you are being on top of a bit of progress on your Cleveland.  This is certainly a different year, most events have cancelled, movement is restricted and may be for most of the year.  It is good that we live, (you and I) where we do and have a bit of open space....

Regards,

Alan

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Today, got the sleeve end of the rear axle completed, its sleeve end axle HE 37 on the drawing. Soldered one of bronze gears of the compensating gear (differential) that is HE 25 on the drawing,  on the sleeve end.  Furthermore assembled the bearing HE 26 on the sleeve end. Had some trouble adjusting the lock nut against the adjustable bearing flange, guess that I have to make some special tools for it.

 

1792389067_Pag4.jpg.cb0b6e3ea82d2b953f5e771c7d67594c.jpg

Drawing of the rear axle.

 

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Sleeve end axle with part of the compensating gear housing

 

Tomorrow I will show more detailed and better pictures, the camera battery got empty (forgot it yesterday to put it on the loader).

 

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

The rear end from your Cleveland is sure unique!  Keep up the good work while you have you head under the covers with this Coronavirus pandemic going on.

Regards,

Alan

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Posted (edited)

Yesterday and today, I worked on the rear axle (to cold and windy for working outside). First I  had to mill two key ways for the bronze compensation gear on the axle bar HE 36 on the drawing. Next, milled the key way for the brake drum. After that and thoroughly cleaning the axle bar, I soldered the bronze compensation gear on the axle bar. After cleaning, at long last I assembled the compensation gear and large chain sprocket. Wonder how many decades this axle was last seen assembled and functioning. 

 

1212387649_Millingkeywayforcompensationgear.jpg.b4cc85bc72e518a74d588412be2b0f35.jpg

Milling key ways

 

420283284_Bearingsleeveaxle.jpg.2eb310960cd1398e4f75d9321973fad6.jpg

Bearing sleeve axle

 

1203447310_Compensationdrumsleeveaxleside.jpg.648c996c3806f9d25a8250137245f190.jpg

Compensation gear drum, sleeve axle side

 

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Compensation gears with bronze trust rings

 

1032143074_Completedcompensationgearandlargechainsprocketsleevaxleside.jpg.c5476a760e15956c3dbbe0fcfdee114e.jpg

Completed compensation drum, sleeve axle side

 

486466563_Completedcompensationgearandlargechainsprocket.jpg.ab5dabfb0247b9bcd72fee02859c0bdd.jpg

Completed compensation drum, axle bar side

 

Assembly of the axle and compensation gears went OK, but after tightening all the nut and bolts I detected a 'heavy point'. I can rotate the bar and sleeve axle independent of each other for about 5/6 of a full rotation. After that, I feel more and more 'friction', must investigate it tomorrow.

 

To brake or not to brake, that is my question.

 

598205555_Mitchellbrakedrum.jpg.01c64cbff04acd9671eedb41d7200a13.jpg

Mitchell 1903 brake drum

 

1214820216_RemtrommelsMitchell1904.jpg.702c6f3f98f77c1df31742090d8ab725.jpg

Mitchell 1904 brake drum

 

Gentlemen, I have a question, when I purchased this car there where no brake drums included😉.  As I have no idea other than a blurred picture from a catalog, my question is: does any of you, have any knowledge of this type of brake drums? I have some pictures of the brake drums of a 1903 and 1904 Mitchell. As a last resort I can make a model and have them cast.... But if one of you have them laying around and is willing to supply me with the dimensions and  some details I would be very happy. As far as I can see the drum is split in the middle. Are both halves identical, and how are they assembled on the axle?

 

Regards,

Harm

 

Edited by Sloth
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Hello Harm,

Nice work on the rear end assembly.  You are going to have a solid unit when you are done, one that you will trust on the road!  I wish I could help with the rear brake drums, but unfortunately I can't.

Regards,

Al 

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Hello Harm,

Have you run through the snug spot and determined what the issue could be?  I am certainly impressed with your craftsmanship and mechanical abilities.  No matter how good you build your engine, if the rear end is not correct the Cleveland simply will not be enjoyed!  That is my "two cents" for the day.  Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Al

PS:  The New York area of the US is really starting to put down some sad statistics that relate to the Coronavirus outbreak.  I sure hope we can slow the Pandemic down, until it dies out!

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

It looks to me as if you already have the answer a few posts back...on pages 7 & 8 of the Eames catalog.

Hello Joe, 

Yes you are right, but, it still leaves my question unanswered: how are the two  brake drum halves on the ends connected to each other? I guess the two halves are bolted to the axle with the large square headed bolts, and secured by a key. But I don't think the ends are mounted flat on each other without any means of securing.

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

Have you run through the snug spot and determined what the issue could be?  I am certainly impressed with your craftsmanship and mechanical abilities.  No matter how good you build your engine, if the rear end is not correct the Cleveland simply will not be enjoyed!  That is my "two cents" for the day.  Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Al

PS:  The New York area of the US is really starting to put down some sad statistics that relate to the Coronavirus outbreak.  I sure hope we can slow the Pandemic down, until it dies out!

Hello Al,

Yes I determined the issue. Started this morning at 6 o'clock, wanted this issue solved. When I bought the car, the compensation gear drums were heavily beaten up. So, after a lot of hammering and using some heat, I got the drums back in shape. But after assembling and using all the nuts and bolts, as were foreseen by the manufacturer, the bar axle drum bushing became slightly deformed. That is, not parallel anymore with the a axle bar. The deformation was not very much, but enough to cause a snug spot. So after a lot of measuring and  using machinists blue, I got it fixed by using the shop press. Pressed one side of the drum a little bit down, that did the trick. As usual: finding the cause of the problem takes a lot of time, the remedy not so much.

 

The Corona virus: our government will announce tomorrow what for the next couple of weeks the measures will be. I expect a prolongation of the already taken measures. Medical experts say that the curves flatten a bit, so new stricter measure are not needed (yet). But, hospitals are scaling up their intensive care departments and that worries me a lot. In the larger cities, temporary emergency  hospitals (700 beds and up) are build, some hotels are furnished by now, for patients other than Corona victims. The medical army corps is also put on duty at the hospitals. As I live in the neighborhood of a large army base, we see a lot of movements with trucks and ambulances. It seems they are gearing up for quick deployment. Its is a fact that our country nearly has come to a stand still. Also are our neighboring countries. Very depressing indeed.

Regards,

Harm

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I doubt there is anything holding the two halves of the brake drum together aside from the bolts in the middle. It's a conventional "machine" part of the day. I think the surfaces of the two halves were probably ground and then carefully fitted together and turned on a mandrel so the OD would be concentric. It may be that the hole in the center was smaller at first and that it was bored with the two halves bolted after which the OD was turned. If they were going to add further support, I suspect there would have been through bolts in the center web at the outside extremities of the circle.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I doubt there is anything holding the two halves of the brake drum together aside from the bolts in the middle. It's a conventional "machine" part of the day. I think the surfaces of the two halves were probably ground and then carefully fitted together and turned on a mandrel so the OD would be concentric. It may be that the hole in the center was smaller at first and that it was bored with the two halves bolted after which the OD was turned. If they were going to add further support, I suspect there would have been through bolts in the center web at the outside extremities of the circle.

Hello Joe,

Thanks for the explanation. Seems doable for me. So a casting model is the first thing to make. Would be a challenge to find a foundry who is still in business, most of them scaled down or suspended business. The Corona virus has a lot of impact on our lives.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

 

Its wonderful to see your progress on this project! In regards to foundry work, over here in the states we have a very active backyard metal casting community. Most cast aluminum but there are some that can do cast iron. I am wondering if there might be people in the Netherlands,  England etc. that are active as well and can take the job on? There is at least one Facebook group. Perhaps that might help make a connection to someone local.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/975721692468728/

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3 hours ago, Terry Harper said:

Hello Harm,

 

Its wonderful to see your progress on this project! In regards to foundry work, over here in the states we have a very active backyard metal casting community. Most cast aluminum but there are some that can do cast iron. I am wondering if there might be people in the Netherlands,  England etc. that are active as well and can take the job on? There is at least one Facebook group. Perhaps that might help make a connection to someone local.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/975721692468728/

Hello Terry,

Thank you, that is  a wonderful idea, never thought of that. Did not find Dutchmen at the Facebook group, I will ask my British friends. I will keep you informed about the progress.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

I am enjoying your progress and getting to see some very unusual early engineering all at the same time.  If you get to the point that you want to proceed with the castings and have your pattern built,  I am with-in 50 miles of a small commercial foundry that is willing to do small projects for me.  (I shared much business with them while working as a Planner at a power generation station so they try to help me back).  I could get your drums made from grey iron if you so desire.

Regards,

Alan

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3 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

I am enjoying your progress and getting to see some very unusual early engineering all at the same time.  If you get to the point that you want to proceed with the castings and have your pattern built,  I am with-in 50 miles of a small commercial foundry that is willing to do small projects for me.  (I shared much business with them while working as a Planner at a power generation station so they try to help me back).  I could get your drums made from grey iron if you so desire.

Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan,

Thank you for your generous offer, I will keep it in mind.  Yes you are right, the rear axle is indeed a piece of unusual engineering, even in 1903 it was considered as somewhat 'old fashioned'. To my opinion, it is a rather clever design. No complicated gears, reliable and sturdy, good enough for a light car, considering the road conditions of that era. The axle bar is a massive 1 1/2" piece of C45 carbon steel. Today I put everything together, pored some oil into the compensation drum and.... it leaked like a sieve😡. Remedy: very thick oil with a grease like consistency, now it does not leak anymore. I wonder how it behaves when we go for a ride (well, that will take a while ☺️).

Regards,

Harm

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Love reading this saga...my first post. Congratulations on taking on this very special project. You are a brave man in addition to your many talents!
Were the early cars (say pre-1909) lubrication systems known as “total loss lubrication”?

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On 4/2/2020 at 4:30 AM, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

Love reading this saga...my first post. Congratulations on taking on this very special project. You are a brave man in addition to your many talents!
Were the early cars (say pre-1909) lubrication systems known as “total loss lubrication”?

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, its called "total loss lubrication". After pouring in the heavier oil, it drips a so now and then a bit, I am OK with it.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

It appears that you are about up to building a pattern for the brake drum.  What else are you doing while that part is in process?  I planted onions a few days ago then it promptly froze hard enough that they are probably done for already....I may get to replant.

Regards,

Alan

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On 4/5/2020 at 4:30 PM, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

It appears that you are about up to building a pattern for the brake drum.  What else are you doing while that part is in process?  I planted onions a few days ago then it promptly froze hard enough that they are probably done for already....I may get to replant.

Regards,

Alan

Hello Alan,

Sorry to hear about the unions, what kind of unions did you plant? 

Not much Cleveland progress. Saturday I made a bearing dust cap, I need 2 for each bearing. One bearing is complete, the other not. Missing one dust cap. So I made one. Turned a  two chunks of steel to 4 " diameter,  cut disk 5" diameter,  of 1/16" steel sheet.   Put the sheet centered between the steel chuncks, and clamped the whole lot under the  shop pres. Hammered an edge on the disk (used some heat to get it crisp and sharp). Later I turned the cap to original dimensions.  The result can be seen below, the green one is the original one, the metal colored one is the new one.

 

2024411585_Bearingcaps.thumb.jpg.02a8bede5b3d9bee92220fef6e1d12cb.jpg

Bearing dust caps

 

Tomorrow I continue with the brake drum pattern. The pattern consists of two halves, not complicated to make, just a lot of work.

 

The non Cleveland related activities: building a front end loader (FEL) for the Iseki mini / midi tractor (see picture) . Last week I completed the FEL towers left / right, see picture. But now  I am in need of some steel slab, but at this moment I don't like it to go to the steel shop to get it. Well, it can wait, helping Anna with the erection of the temporary green house. Its a diy kit; steel tube and plastic sheet.

 

1012310226_Frontendloadertower.jpg.dea7dfb07ed29fa3e75564894f98f441.jpg

FEL tower

 

1439521222_IsekiLandleader235.jpg.2838d103f76fa60a3c2c0983e640bb0a.jpg

Iseki tracktor "Landleader 235", cat always keeps me company, I feed and cuddle her. (cat belongs to our neighbors, cat is not so sure about it.... 😁)

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth (see edit history)
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