Sloth

1903 Cleveland Roadster project

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1 hour ago, Luv2Wrench said:

Is that a shaper hiding back there? 

 

Looks like a horizontal mill and a shaper back there. We like machinery too!

 

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What is CRS? I assume it's a material but I'm not familiar with it.

 

Ah... Cold Rolled Steel. I've never heard it called that before.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I think that one of the great advantages to working on very early cars is that none of the specialized machines that made parts that are very difficult to replicate had been invented yet.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

What is CRS? I assume it's a material but I'm not familiar with it.

 

Ah... Cold Rolled Steel. I've never heard it called that before.

I suffer from CRS but I don’t think it’s what Harm is talking about! 😃

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I know exactly what Chistech is speaking about regarding the term "CRS".  I suffer from the same issue.  Harm,  did you heat treat the CRS after boring the hole used for punching out the raw copper coins?  I may have some specific questions regarding your set-up for stamping the coins.  Did you solder each coin to the parent copper tube?  Keep up the good work.

Al

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This morning I have just found your posts and have really enjoyed reading and seeing the work you have carried out on both the farm house and the car. I look forward to more posts from you in the future. Excellent work.

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Dear gentlemen, thank you for your friendly and encouraging comments. Indeed, I think with the machines I have I can replicate and replace all the parts that are needed for such an veteran car. No CNC or other complicated machines are needed, nor useful (horrific setup times). Below are some pictures of the machines I own. Sorry for the mess, it looks like a pig pen. The problem is, the shop is just to small.... My wife tells me I have to many machines.... That not true, I still need some. A planer, a surface grinder... better not to think about it.

 

1910837396_Werkplaats2009.thumb.jpg.ee3ad0d3ec2a22035091f43e6a0c8ec1.jpg

The shop as it was in 2009, nice, clean, reasonably organized and enough room.

 

Below, as it is now, more machines and a not clean and not so organized anymore. But I am working on it. Because its very irritating, searching for tools you are sure that you have them, but do not know where. Maybe old age?

 

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Drill press Rong Fu and drill / mill also Rong Fu. Drill press OK, drill / mill not so. Does not hold center when adjusting the head (round column).

 

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Hydraulic press 15 ton , build it myself about 30 years ago. Lathe TOS, a 1951 Czech workhorse, 10 hp, has all the accessories you will ever need. Still holds dimension under heavy load.  Heavy lathe, 5500 Lbs. Got the lathe for a song and a dance, it is much to large and heavy for most hobbyists, the previous owner did not want to see it scrapped, he bought it new in 1951.

 

1668700502_LatheTaiwanesesmall.jpg.4d0023566b67de339aea9e492ef3873e.jpg

Small Taiwanese lathe, it is a good lathe for turning small parts. Band saw, Chinese, I call it a cursing generator.... gave me lots of trouble. New electric motor, new bearings and so on, and still not good.

 

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Shaper, Cincinati build at Lyon France, bought it 10 years ago for $100,-, use it very often for splines (internal and external). Use it also for removing the hard black layer of flat hot rolled steel. Found an old book, in which is described how to generate gears with a shaper. One of these days I will try to fabricate the set-up as described in this book, just curious how it can be done. A few month ago, I bought an original unmolested shaper vice, oh boy, is that thing heavy 90 lbs.

 

1894447389_Frankenmillsmall.thumb.jpg.21cce28ccfbb3a2fc33a619864a876bc.jpg

Last but not least, my Frankenmill. I am very fond of it. Its an Elliott U0 (smallest of the U series) horizontal mill, but still substantial heavy. I put an Bridgeport M head on the ram. Its a lovely combination. The M head can be set left / right without to much effort. Moving the ram forward and back is very handy for larger parts. A Bridgeport J head would be much to heavy, I guess I could not manage it. A friend has a original, nearly new J head Bridgeport, tramming the head is quite a job. Last week the on/off switch on the M head gave up the ghost, replacement is ordered. I use the horizontal mode quite often, its also reasonably easy to mill gears with it.

 

Tucked between the small lathe and the wall is a Clarkson tool grinder, don't use it very much. For sharpening mills, to get the set-up right,  is time consuming and complicated. Furthermore I have some simple (cheap) wood working machines, mostly second hand, but in reasonably good condition.

Regards,

Harm

 

Edited by Sloth
corrected spelling errors (see edit history)
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Wonderful shop, thanks for giving us a tour.  Tell your Wife we all agree with you that there's still a few substantial pieces to be added and then just some tweaking. ;)
I do like what you did with the mill, I think a DIY universal is a big win for smaller shops.  You really do need a horizontal and you really do need a vertical, with that you have both but with little to no compromise.  Job well done.

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Hello Luv2Wrench,

Thanks for your encouragement, ah yes, talking to my wife about the shop mmm, I will see....🙄.

The Frankenmill is really a handy machine, the sturdiness of the Elliott horizontal and the flexibility of the Bridgeport head. The only addition I wish for, is a digital read out.

Regards,

Harm

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I wish I could keep my shop shop neat. Yes, you need a surface grinder. If you were just down the road I'd give you one of mine. I have a planer too but I've yet to put the motor back on it since we moved it. I agree, you are well equipped to bring your car back to life.

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4 hours ago, Sloth said:

The problem is, the shop is just to small.... My wife tells me I have to many machines

I guess I'm not the only one with this problem.

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Good for you Harm,  You can never have too much equipment!  (even if some of it only gets used infrequently).  I finally have given up on my small shop and am in the middle of a 60' x 60' shop extension that will allow for farm equipment storage, automobile storage and a 20' x 60' machine shop.  You must have a shop bay that you dedicate to your car projects?  How much snow and serious cold weather to you have in your area?  Like you I have a small lathe (9" South Bend) and a bigger brute, a 16" Lodge and Shipley from 1926.  Fortunately the previous owner paid the price to have the original electric motor rewound from 3 phase to single phase so I do not need a phase converter to run it.  (I do not have access to three phase where I live).

Al

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11 hours ago, Sloth said:

Shaper, Cincinati build at Lyon France, bought it 10 years ago for $100,-, use it very often for splines (internal and external). Use it also for removing the hard black layer of flat hot rolled steel. Found an old book, in which is described how to generate gears with a shaper. One of these days I will try to fabricate the set-up as described in this book, just curious how it can be done.

 

What a great workshop. I was very interested to read about using a shaper for splines. Having only recently started to 'get into' machining I did not realise you could use a shaper for that. I am looking forward to reading and seeing your future posts.

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@ Mike Macartney: good morning sir. Thank you for the compliment. The workshop  'now a days' is a necessity, in my part of the Netherlands there are not many small engineering companies left willing to take on small repair and fabrication jobs . Most of the companies have CNC machines, if they are willing to take on a small job, they take a lot of money just for the set up one of those machines. They are very good for mass production of parts, but not for single parts. And an other reason, I just like machine work.... In my working days I was the head of a research and development department, focused on aerospace electronics and cooling equipment for satellites. I loved it very much, but just working night and day, was not good for my well being. So keeping the stress at bay, Anna told me to look for for a hobby.  I needed to do something totally different. So 35 years ago Anna and I decided to restore a Ford model A, 1931 roadster. We had a lot of fun with it (we have to restore it again), but we grew older and more and more liked  pre 1914 cars. So we focus now on the "older" cars.

In your avatar I see a very nice car, can you tell me what kind of car it is?

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I wish I had an enclosed shop area for my machinery as my lathe, drill press, and vertical mill are along one wall of my shop so I cover them with big plastic bags to protect them from everything else going on in the garage. If I do woodwork, those tools get rolled out from a corner and set up for the job. Possibly, one day, I’ll do some planning and try to set the shop up differently. I do all different kinds of work in the garage and I do have a plan to set half of it up more as a man-cave garage with tiled floor, nice painted walls, finished ceiling, and really good lighting. Then the Olds and 31’ Chevy will have a nice home. I already have a nice office so there’s room for a couch, tv, fridge, and microwave. Ah, someday!

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Harm and chistech, I agree with you comments fully.  The machine processes, what every they are, or welding then fabrication are very therapeutic.  I enjoy the thought process of how can I accomplish a fabrication or repair, then devise a plan, draw it out with dimensions and then set about building the thing.  Harm, do you have other projects besides the Model A and the Cleveland?

Al

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Hello gentlemen, I think that doing this kind of restoration work, you need this kind of machines. JV Puleo's blog about his Mitchel is the proof of it I guess.

@ Chistech: this is just the way I started 30 years ago. For me it worked very well.

@ JV Puleo, thank you for your offer, I foresee some transport issues. So I pass (this time 😉)

 

My machine shop is not large, just 15' x 28'. We have another shop 20' x 30', I use this for repair and assembling my car projects. And the last one is a large shed 20' x 50'. It is partially open, but the closed part includes Anna's flower green house. It is also used for the garden equipment (we live on 2 acres), so we have some garden equipment. When we bought the farm, these buildings where a great plus for me... My other project is a 1909 Buick model 10 Surrey, this is temporarily stored at the former farm in-house stables. I decided finishing the restoration of the Cleveland has the highest priority, the reason behind is a simple one, after so many years of ownership of this unfinished project, and resuming work on it for the fourth time, I lost my enthusiasm for it. Knowing myself very well, its now or never...  so I put the Buick in storage. It proved the right decision, I love it again, and work a lot on the Cleveland.

Today, I painted the chassis for the second time, and also a lot of parts. I hope to start assembling within a few weeks.

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Painted chassis and a view of the assembly and repair shop.

 

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Painted springs and parts, plus another view of the assembly and repair shop (whats in a name...).

 

Today the weather was nice, 53 F, no wind to speak of, and very sunny. But, wintertime is approaching. Our winters are mostly moderate (sea climate), sometimes a bit of snow. Some heavy snowfall -don't laugh 12 whole inches 😅-  we got during the winter of 2013/2014, last year no snow at all. Most winters, snowfall is rather locally, depends strongly on the passing of low pressure areas. Frost, most winters, a few weeks, last year a few days, winter 2017/2018 none. Some days, very cold -4 F polar winds, most of the time the temperature is around 32 F. A white Christmas is very seldom seen here, last time 2009, it snowed on Christmas night, very romantic. 🎅

The summers are another story, the last 3 years we had extremely hot summers. Temperatures of  90 F for weeks,  extremes of 102 F became common, and very dry, climate shift? The summers I remember, when I was young, where rainy and cold.

Regards,

Harm

 

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I will admit to some shop/farm/project envy... but at least you're willing to share. :) Speaking of which... we will be needing to see some pics of the 1909 Buick project as well. :)

 

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On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 9:51 AM, Sloth said:

In your avatar I see a very nice car, can you tell me what kind of car it is?

 

Hello Harm, the car is a 1903 Crestmobile. I have only owned this car since 2011. I had wanted to take part in the London to Brighton run ever since my father took me to see the start when I was about 8-years old. We completed the run in horrendously wet weather in 2011. Since then we have not been on the run, as it makes for quite an expensive weekend and does not seem to be a challenge to us anymore.

 

1305395437_London2000490.jpg.f2939981fb3c33514e84f584cf50b399.jpg

 

Soaked, and only a few miles into the run!

 

At present, I am rebuilding/restoring a 1914 Humberette, that I am reporting on in this forum.

Edited by Mike Macartney
missing word (see edit history)
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Mike, if that is Jane, see doesn’t look so happy! We’re lucky when our wives support our hobby for sure.

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Mike,  Your 2011 adventure, did it rain the whole way to Brighton?  Even though you are wet and likely uncomfortably cool, I am certainly envious of you and your wife.  That London to Brighton trip is an experience that I will likely only continue to dream about and never be a reality!

Al

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Harm,  Get your Cleveland completed, certified and be a participant in the London to Brighton some time!  Then share, with us, a picture such as Mike has done.

Al

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1 hour ago, alsfarms said:

Mike,  Your 2011 adventure, did it rain the whole way to Brighton?

 

So as not to take up space on Harm's post. I will answer your question in more detail on my Humberette post.

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Hello Mike,

That is a lovely car, I really like it. Nice colors too. But the weather, oh boy......

Just a question, have the brakes any braking power? I have some serious doubts about the Cleveland brakes.

Regards,

Harm

 

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Hello Harm,

As you know for sure anyway,  We should drive these cars like the age they are due to weak brakes.  Even my cars of the 1930's have weak brakes as compared to modern.  Even the 1950's Corvettes were just hydraulic, no power brakes yet.  Discuss what you are thinking about your brakes on the Cleveland.

Al

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