Sloth

1903 Cleveland Roadster project

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Hello Harm,

What is your chosen method for installing the top louvers in the slop nose hood?  Do you plan to build your seat with a flat back or rounded corners?

Al

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3 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

What is your chosen method for installing the top louvers in the slop nose hood?  Do you plan to build your seat with a flat back or rounded corners?

Al

Hallo Al,

I must figure out how it originally was made. But as now, I think, it is a hatch with a 1/2" 90 degree edge, with on the top (near the dash) a hinge. For fabricating the louvers I have to make a simple die. But this item is for the time being on the back burner. Below I include a link to a very interesting project, the fabrication of louvers is shown in detail. The writer describes how to fabricate a simple die for fabricating louvers. To me, it seems a very elegant solution. And another benefit, I can easily adjust the dimensions fitting the Cleveland louvers. And above all, as I am a Dutchman: its cheap 😉 . One note, I only need 5 or 6 louvers, so the die can be very simple and if it breaks I make a new one. Further more the nearest shop who can make louvers is about 160 miles away, and they are not interested in it. So I decided to make the louvers myself.

Link: http://www.madaboutmorgans.com/handmade_louvers-html/

 

I plan to build the seat with rounded corners,  I spend the afternoon with drawing and visualizing the seat, how to to fabricate the corners. The back of the seat is also slightly rounded, making it a bit more complicated. Tomorrow I plan to make a mock up (building up one edge, made of slices of plywood),  just to see if I have the dimensions right. Pictures will be taken...

Regards,

Harm

Edited by Sloth
Corrected syntax error (see edit history)
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15 hours ago, Sloth said:

I decided to make the louvers myself.

 

That is a very interesting site Harm. Thank you for the link. On the site I found a page on 'Rolled Wire Sheet Metal Hems' which will help me with the repair of the wings (fenders) on my restoration.

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Hello Harm,

I agree with the comment by Mike above!  What a nice link to help we home builders complete a professional type jog with home-brew skills and tools.  I have  an Alvis TA-21 project that is going to be my interpretation of an European styled special and on the right car!  Many of the skills discussed on that Morgan link will be very beneficial.  Thanks for sharing the link!  Now what about the Cleveland?  You only have a couple of weeks before Christmas.  I would like to see you and the Missus sitting in the completed/nearly completed seat.... 🙂

Al

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14 hours ago, John S. said:

Sloth, what is the wheelbase on the Cleveland Roadster? Very nice work. 

Hello John, thank you for the compliment. The wheelbase is 72".

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Mike and Al,

Gentlemen, you are welcome. I bookmarked this website several years ago,  I found many very useful tricks and tips. The "Rolled Wire Sheet Metal Hems" trick I used myself several years ago, when fabricating new wings/fenders/mudguards 😉 for the 1909 Buick.

Alan, the Alvis TA-21 is (in my humble opinion) a desirable car, some of them have very nice bodies. Well the Cleveland, a good progress today, but have some problems with the camera, I hope to sort it out asap. Would be very satisfying sitting in the new seat, I really wonder how many years ago the last person sat down in this Cleveland (although I realize very well, that my Cleveland body is newly build).

Regards,

Harm

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It was a very productive day. Last night I got an idea how to fabricate the front seat. The seat will consist of two left/right main pillars, with notches for the side panels and a notch for the rear panel. The pillars provided me with some fabrication challenges, the rear panel is curved, and the side panels are on an angle. For the pillars, I used mahogany I had in stock, the ash I have is just to small. I like milling/routing mahogany, its reasonably dense and not too bad for the tooling.

 

1015577829_Mainpilarsectionview.thumb.jpg.ed83f846f089e6dc46f3044372adb75d.jpg

Sectional view of right side main pillar

 

1442452859_Mainpilarrightsideofseat.jpg.8424da4668312badf24380d4d050f618.jpg

Curved back side of the main pillar.

A lot of milling and sanding was needed to get the notches right.

 

1627271553_Rearview.jpg.9d408308ac14c2d7e346855c931ab590.jpg

Quarter rear view of main pillar and side panel

 

212914038_Sideview.jpg.e6bb83539ee0ba1ca2d8627138dd8366.jpg

Side view of right side side panel and main pillar

 

271232546_Viewofangleofrightsidemainpilarandsidepanel.thumb.jpg.80adae00a3b7b45bb097f92bc5daeb05.jpg

Main pillar angle

 

Gentlemen, the angle of the main pillar in last picture presents me with a problem. I have no idea if the angle is OK, or must it a bit more leaning outward? What do you think about it?

Things to do tomorrow, rounding the main pillars, I searched for a router bit with the right (large 1 1/2" radius. Found some at €150-;  mmm where did I leave my spoke sheaves... Further, make a top board, an underside beam and 3 small trusses between the top board and the under beam.

Alan, I told Anna what you wrote in an earlier post, she liked the idea of the sitting very much.... I am in a hurry now 😁

Regards,

Harm

 

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I think that (comfortable) seat backs recline at about a 20 degree angle, though that may be more than your car originally had.  Maybe 10-15 degrees is enough.  The seat bottom should slope downward to the back at about 5 degrees to help people stay in the seats, but maybe you can build that into the cushions.  Try measuring the seats on a modern car that you find comfortable. 

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13 hours ago, Sloth said:

Gentlemen, the angle of the main pillar in last picture presents me with a problem. I have no idea if the angle is OK, or must it a bit more leaning outward? What do you think about it?

 

Would it help you if I sent you or posted some photos and measurement of the body and seating area my 1903 Crestmobile?

 

I was very pleased to see all the 'stuff' on the bench in the background of the photo. I try to work tidily, but, I always seem to end up with a mess of tools and stuff on any flat surface. From your previous photos I was amazed to see everything so clean and organised, now I know your human! :)

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11 hours ago, Gary_Ash said:

I think that (comfortable) seat backs recline at about a 20 degree angle, though that may be more than your car originally had.  Maybe 10-15 degrees is enough.  The seat bottom should slope downward to the back at about 5 degrees to help people stay in the seats, but maybe you can build that into the cushions.  Try measuring the seats on a modern car that you find comfortable. 

Hello Gary, thank you for your advice, will take a look at my Buick of 1910 seats.

Regards,

Harm

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1 hour ago, Mike Macartney said:

 

Would it help you if I sent you or posted some photos and measurement of the body and seating area my 1903 Crestmobile?

 

I was very pleased to see all the 'stuff' on the bench in the background of the photo. I try to work tidily, but, I always seem to end up with a mess of tools and stuff on any flat surface. From your previous photos I was amazed to see everything so clean and organised, now I know your human! :)

Hello Mike,

It would be a great help,  if you post some measurement of the body and seating area, it seems that the body of the Crestmobile looks nearly identical to the Cleveland. Thank you in advance!

 

Yes Mike, I am human with all the quirks belonging to it. Horizontal flat surfaces magically collecting stuff, can hardly do anything to prevent this 😉. But nothing gets lost, I think... (Takes sometimes more than a few minutes to find  something back....🙄)

Regards,

Harm

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Just now, Sloth said:

It would be a great help,  if you post some measurement of the body and seating area

 

I will post the measurement this afternoon. In the meantime here are some photos that may, or may not, help.

 

DSCN1765.thumb.JPG.23f44cdf6cf678620d2939f769954234.JPG

 

IMG_2231.JPG.5cd7659006dcb2300915ac0178c5d377.JPG

 

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IMG_2256.thumb.JPG.19962c36710da58378e4ab9c8ee52d1d.JPG

 

 

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It has been a little tricky this morning to take the photos as I was by myself. Tape in one hand and camera in the other. The blue 'thing' in the photo is the trunk lid for the Humberette. It is a convenient place to put it to hopefully stop it getting damaged until I get around to fitting it. I could not find another clear space to put it!

 

IMG_1849s.thumb.jpg.48276709344fa3db2b5526c972fe9d15.jpg

 

This is the measurement between the outsides of the body where the seat is. To give you an idea of the position of the measurement, the vertical bright part is the pillar for the tiller steering.

 

IMG_1850s.thumb.jpg.63afeae695e712e9991352bde4ebfe72.jpg

 

85mm (33-1/2") is the width of the seat base.

 

IMG_1851s.thumb.jpg.0ed2fc16f5dc35c31ab1675c14d5674f.jpg

 

Measurement from the seat back to the front of the seat base.

 

IMG_1852s.thumb.jpg.7714b1bf8d99d9f6eda9ab9a950a073f.jpg

 

Across the seat base. This photo also shows how the seat back widens out from the base.

 

IMG_1853s.thumb.jpg.a906d86025e1e34bc870fb371ef0f112.jpg

 

This is a close up of the tape measurement of the photo above this one.

 

IMG_1854s.thumb.jpg.d75aaf1ec454c18d6f308f2c75624dfd.jpg

 

Seat back height.

 

IMG_1855s.thumb.jpg.f5cfd499ac00b7d439b1dd01aaec25cc.jpg

 

Showing the seat back height measurement.

 

IMG_1857s.thumb.jpg.90dd9ba47ad472fec95df066a87260e5.jpg

 

Height of the seat base above the floor.

 

I hope the above is of help. If you need any more measurements, explanations or photos please do not hesitate to ask.

 

Mike

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@Mike Macartney:  Hello Mike,  thank you very much for making this effort. I am very pleased to tell you,  the dimensions of the Cleveland seat are within 1/2" identical of those of the Crestmobile. I am reassured and a very happy Harm now, so I pored myself a hearty drink, and toasted on your health. This is just what I needed to continue (the dimensions, not the drink...😊). This forum proved invaluable for me,  as I have no frame of reference or help for restoring a 1903 American car of which only two exist.

Regards,

Harm

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Corrected syntax error (see edit history)
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Harm, I am only to pleased too help. It is nice to help somebody else, after all the help members of this forum have given me, since I joined a year and a half ago. Best regards Mike

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Mike,Those are delightful pictures of the Crestmobile!  Not only are you helping Harm but you are also helping me!  The rear end your Crestmobile has is VERY familiar.  Harm,  have you worked out the back seat rest slope to a "degree" that you are happy with?  (Wow another play with words two different meanings for degree).

Al

 

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2 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Mike,Those are delightful pictures of the Crestmobile!  Not only are you helping Harm but you are also helping me!  The rear end your Crestmobile has is VERY familiar.  Harm,  have you worked out the back seat rest slope to a "degree" that you are happy with?  (Wow another play with words two different meanings for degree).

Al

 

Hello Al,

Yes, I worked out the degree of slope, the pictures of the Crestmobile were of a great help. Will let you know, as soon as I assemble the front seat, probably Monday. Today I assembled and glued together the side panels. Tomorrow some shopping is foreseen by Anna 😒, no Cleveland wood work. So my degree of happiness is a bit declining 😁.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

How was your shopping "spree"?  I hope as rewarding for you as it likely was for Anna..... 🙂

Al

Edited by alsfarms
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5 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

How was your shopping "spree"?  I hope as rewarding for you as it likely was for Anna..... 🙂

Al

Hello Al,

Well, it was a nice weekend with limited shopping. We went to Rotterdam, it is the largest harbor of Europe. Nice shopping,  but very bad weather, a lot of wind and rain. So instead to continue shopping the whole Saturday, we went in the afternoon for a harbor tour by boat. We were impressed, a very busy harbor. Stayed the night over, and had a very good "surprise diner" at one of the restaurants (good wine too 😋).

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

That sure sounds like a trip to the "big city" for some "country folk" to me!  Occasionally I don't mind a trip to the big city but I try to avoid the big city as much as I can!  They are just to congested for my liking.  Are you or your wife originally from the big city or have relatives there?  Several generations ago, my families, that I know about, originated from the big city areas of the big industrial  of Manchester in the mid 1800's and also from the big city of Copenhagen.  I also have family from western Europe and plan to learn a bit more of where they originated so I will know big city or farmer.  Now back to the good chat on Cleveland!

Regards,

Al

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6 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm,

That sure sounds like a trip to the "big city" for some "country folk" to me!  Occasionally I don't mind a trip to the big city but I try to avoid the big city as much as I can!  They are just to congested for my liking.  Are you or your wife originally from the big city or have relatives there?  Several generations ago, my families, that I know about, originated from the big city areas of the big industrial  of Manchester in the mid 1800's and also from the big city of Copenhagen.  I also have family from western Europe and plan to learn a bit more of where they originated so I will know big city or farmer.  Now back to the good chat on Cleveland!

Regards,

Al

Hello Al,

Anna and I are not from big cities. Anna comes from a small village in the northern part of the Netherlands, her family where millers for several hundreds of years. She is born at a mill as is painted on classical Dutch paintings. I am from a very small village in the same area, but more to the north. My father was born on a ship, most of his family members where skippers/sailing masters. Later on my father became lock keeper, at a lock in a very remote area, I am used to not having neighbors 😉.

 

Back to the Cleveland: today, i made a lot of fine tuning and adjustments of the seat wood work. I am satisfied with the fitment of the parts. Tomorrow everything will be glued together, but before that I will take a lot of pictures for future reference and this blog. I have the dimensions of the tonneau more or less sorted out, I am tempted to start with the building of the tonneau too.

Regards,

Harm

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Hello Harm,

I would be interested to see a picture of the mill you refer to and also a lock that you father was a keeper at.  Those things are interesting to me and are a part of family history.    Do you have a guess as to how much your finished body will weigh?  I am going to engineer my project body strongly but with the thought to minimize weight.  I am anxious to see the build-up of your rear tonneau.

Al

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Today I made some progress, assembled and glued the front seat. Also managed to put one back panel in (tomorrow the second one, I ran out of the right glue). The slope of the side boards (leaning outwards) = 84 degrees. The slope of the back panel starts with 72 degrees, increasing to the top to 86 degrees. I mounted the side panels with a kind of pin in hole connection, made by a long groove in the seat frame and also a long groove in the side panel (see pictures), both will be connected with a strip of ash. Two long screws to secure everything from moving during the setting of the glue, and I have a very sturdy seat.

 

905397251_Frontseatframewithslitandlongstrip.thumb.jpg.5b96b6b206ba6291bb7bd6b09e421406.jpg

Grove and wooden strip ( router got a bit offline)

 

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Wooden strip glues in groove

 

248701698_Sidepanelwithmountingslitatbottom.jpg.4ba210d9deeedd2575ba52957e7fad37.jpg

Groove in bottom of side board

 

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Front view of seat

 

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Rear view of seat

 

1413533919_Frontseatrightbackedge.thumb.jpg.7257d294f1151598be6a15fdff022144.jpg

Rear view of seat corner

 

Just a few days, and Anna and I can "take a seat", I look forward to it😊.

Regards,

Harm

 

 

 

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Harm, an amazing job. Seeing the woodwork that you, Ted and Jeff do, makes me wish I had learnt a bit about woodwork at an early age.

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