alsfarms Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Hello Harm, That sure sounds like a trip to the "big city" for some "country folk" to me! Occasionally I don't mind a trip to the big city but I try to avoid the big city as much as I can! They are just to congested for my liking. Are you or your wife originally from the big city or have relatives there? Several generations ago, my families, that I know about, originated from the big city areas of the big industrial of Manchester in the mid 1800's and also from the big city of Copenhagen. I also have family from western Europe and plan to learn a bit more of where they originated so I will know big city or farmer. Now back to the good chat on Cleveland! Regards, Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 16, 2019 Author Share Posted December 16, 2019 6 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, That sure sounds like a trip to the "big city" for some "country folk" to me! Occasionally I don't mind a trip to the big city but I try to avoid the big city as much as I can! They are just to congested for my liking. Are you or your wife originally from the big city or have relatives there? Several generations ago, my families, that I know about, originated from the big city areas of the big industrial of Manchester in the mid 1800's and also from the big city of Copenhagen. I also have family from western Europe and plan to learn a bit more of where they originated so I will know big city or farmer. Now back to the good chat on Cleveland! Regards, Al Hello Al, Anna and I are not from big cities. Anna comes from a small village in the northern part of the Netherlands, her family where millers for several hundreds of years. She is born at a mill as is painted on classical Dutch paintings. I am from a very small village in the same area, but more to the north. My father was born on a ship, most of his family members where skippers/sailing masters. Later on my father became lock keeper, at a lock in a very remote area, I am used to not having neighbors 😉. Back to the Cleveland: today, i made a lot of fine tuning and adjustments of the seat wood work. I am satisfied with the fitment of the parts. Tomorrow everything will be glued together, but before that I will take a lot of pictures for future reference and this blog. I have the dimensions of the tonneau more or less sorted out, I am tempted to start with the building of the tonneau too. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Hello Harm, I would be interested to see a picture of the mill you refer to and also a lock that you father was a keeper at. Those things are interesting to me and are a part of family history. Do you have a guess as to how much your finished body will weigh? I am going to engineer my project body strongly but with the thought to minimize weight. I am anxious to see the build-up of your rear tonneau. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 Today I made some progress, assembled and glued the front seat. Also managed to put one back panel in (tomorrow the second one, I ran out of the right glue). The slope of the side boards (leaning outwards) = 84 degrees. The slope of the back panel starts with 72 degrees, increasing to the top to 86 degrees. I mounted the side panels with a kind of pin in hole connection, made by a long groove in the seat frame and also a long groove in the side panel (see pictures), both will be connected with a strip of ash. Two long screws to secure everything from moving during the setting of the glue, and I have a very sturdy seat. Grove and wooden strip ( router got a bit offline) Wooden strip glues in groove Groove in bottom of side board Front view of seat Rear view of seat Rear view of seat corner Just a few days, and Anna and I can "take a seat", I look forward to it😊. Regards, Harm 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Harm, an amazing job. Seeing the woodwork that you, Ted and Jeff do, makes me wish I had learnt a bit about woodwork at an early age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Many think reproducing an early car body is "easy", well, it is NOT. Your work looks great, and the small details that really make up a good job are all included in your build.......WELL DONE! Edited December 19, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Mike Macartney and Edinmass, gentlemen thank you for your appreciation. Reading about both of your restorations, I must say your appreciation means a lot to me. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I am inspired by your body, especially as I will have to do that myself some time in the future. I was wondering about the thickness of the side panels. I've had a couple of wooden bodies - later than yours, and I don't remember the panels being that thick. Might it cause a weight problem? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I echo what has been said above. Very nice craftsmanship that will give you a very robust seat assembly. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Harm, It does look as if you and Anna will be posing on Christmas sitting in the new seat of your Cleveland. How are you going to "fix" the vertical runners in the seat back to the seat base. I am very impressed with your design that will result is a very sound structure and should provide you with many hours and miles of fun when done. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, JV Puleo said: I am inspired by your body, especially as I will have to do that myself some time in the future. I was wondering about the thickness of the side panels. I've had a couple of wooden bodies - later than yours, and I don't remember the panels being that thick. Might it cause a weight problem? Hello sir, it feels good inspiring people😊. The side panels of the front seat are 2 glued together boards of plywood. Thickness of each = 9/16" total 1 1/8". Its a waterproof quality plywood, but light weight. The rear panel of the seat is build by gluing 2 flexible layers plywood of 9/32" thickness, total 9/16". Regards, Harm Edited December 19, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 hours ago, alsfarms said: Harm, It does look as if you and Anna will be posing on Christmas sitting in the new seat of your Cleveland. How are you going to "fix" the vertical runners in the seat back to the seat base. I am very impressed with your design that will result is a very sound structure and should provide you with many hours and miles of fun when done. Al Al, I am working to it. The vertical runners in the seat back will be joined on a small beam on the bottom of the seat frame, and on top, on the timber which runs from left to the right side. Tomorrow I will post detailed pictures of it. Now the glue has hardened, the seat is very rigid, won't fall apart for the first decades ☺️ (or hundred years). Regarding the weight, this afternoon I weighted the frame, seat and slope nosed hood. Frame: 95 lbs Seat: 37 lbs Hood: 16 lbs Total weight: 148 lbs = 67 Kg I Guess that the toneau will be about 90 to 100 lbs. Including the upholstery, I guess that the body (which includes the toneau) weighs in total about 270 t0 290 lbs. I must admit that I have not the slightest idea if that is heavy or not. Gentlemen, please let me know what your thoughts are about this. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Hello Harm, Weight is the very problem that early automobile makers had to deal with regarding lower HP offerings. That is why I suppose the roadster model was pushed a lot because they simply performed better with less weight. It will be nice if others who have direct experience with early Cad's., Ford's, REO's, Olds and others will chime in with weights of rear entrance versions of their automobiles. Regards, Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 19 hours ago, Sloth said: Gentlemen, please let me know what your thoughts are about this. Sorry Harm, I have no idea of the weight of the body on the Crestmobile. All I can say is that I am surprised the steepness of the hills it will climb in low gear. Too date, Jane has never had to get out to push! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Harm, the body is coming along nicely. Beautiful work. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Hello Harm, Have your tonneau plans began to come together? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Hello Harm, Are we going to see you and Anna in the Cleveland seat for Christmas. That will be the best Christmas cheer for us! Merry Christmas to you..... Regards, Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) Dear ladies and gentlemen , at last: here we are, (Anna and I) sitting in the Cleveland. Regards, Harm Edited December 24, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Now what a charming couple and great picture this is! I am very happy for both of you and to be willing to work together on a common project and then be able to sit together for a nice Christmas Card picture! 🙂 I note that Anna is in the drivers seat! Good for you Anna! 🙂 It is my hope that the Valentines picture will be the two of you sitting in the tonneau seat (lovers seat) for a similar picture! Enjoy a memorable Christmas and Happy New years celebration! Regards, Alan PS: Keep up the good work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 2 hours ago, alsfarms said: Now what a charming couple and great picture this is! I am very happy for both of you and to be willing to work together on a common project and then be able to sit together for a nice Christmas Card picture! 🙂 I note that Anna is in the drivers seat! Good for you Anna! 🙂 It is my hope that the Valentines picture will be the two of you sitting in the tonneau seat (lovers seat) for a similar picture! Enjoy a memorable Christmas and Happy New years celebration! Regards, Alan PS: Keep up the good work! Hallo Alan, Thank you for your nice compliments, we feel honored. We wish you good health and happy celebrations. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 Congratulations and well done finishing to the stage you can sit in the car and take a photo. Also for making it into a great Christmas card. Maybe I need Al to give me some challenges to get a bit further on with my project! Seasons Greetings Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) Good Day Harm, On the day after Christmas. This is the kick-back day where we get rested up after Christmas Celebration. I hope that your Kick-back day includes decent weather so you can roll out the wood working equipment and make saw dust on the tonneau. Enjoy the day anyway you can..... Al PS: Share with us what you used to create the nice Christmas card above. I just bought Photoshop Elements 2020 and hope to use it to fix one of the few factory photos of my Cleveland project for making some good scale drawings/calculations to build the body. I also want to practice with Photoshop so I can get crafty, like you have done, making the nice card above! Edited December 26, 2019 by alsfarms clarity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Popadak Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 And Al, when do we get to see YOUR Cleveland? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Hello Ben, How was your east coast Christmas? I do not want to take the shine away from Harm and what he has got going here on his Cleveland forum. Harm is definitely getting my interest built for a substantial start on my "long shot" Cleveland project. What have you got going as of late? Remember, this is a big year for New Years Resolutions as this is the start of a new decade, so make it count! Hello Harm, Has your winter weather settled down to allow you to make saw dust? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 Hello gentlemen, thank you for your comment, hope you all had a nice Christmas. Anna and I had nice and quiet Christmas celebrations. I created the Christmas card with Power Point. Mike I don't think you need some challenges from Alan or one of us, you show good and steady progress. And, by the way, the engine of the Humberette looks to me as more than enough of a challenge.... Yesterday, lousy weather, could not do anything. Made a parts list for the wood work. Today, beautiful weather, so out with the machines. Started at 8.00 hr and put the machines inside at 18.00hr, a long day. Sawed and planed all the wood needed for building the toneau. Also finished the mock up of the toneau. Mock-up of toneau seat frame Rear of toneau detail Rear of toneau with door posts Rear of touneau with door post inside view Alan, here are the some pictures of the construction of the front seat slats. Front seat detail with middle slat (just a bit to short) Front seat top detail Front seat bottom detail, on the left the slot for the gear, brake and ignition levers This ends my report for today. Regards, Harm 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Popadak Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 And yes I blatantly stole the picture from an ebay calendar for sale. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Harm, I am very impressed with your woodwork skills. Did you make drawings of what you wanted to make, or was it made up as you went along? Sorry for the questions. Not being a 'woodwork person' I find it all very interesting. A similar rear section, for converting the Crestmobile to a 4-seater was originally available, according to one of the adverts. I have just had a quick look to see if I could find it, and have only managed to find an advert of the 1904 model that advertises the 4-person and 2-person model that had a proper steering wheel, rather than the tiller steering on my one. Keep up the good work. I eagerly look forward to reading your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mike Macartney said: Harm, I am very impressed with your woodwork skills. Did you make drawings of what you wanted to make, or was it made up as you went along? Sorry for the questions. Not being a 'woodwork person' I find it all very interesting. A similar rear section, for converting the Crestmobile to a 4-seater was originally available, according to one of the adverts. I have just had a quick look to see if I could find it, and have only managed to find an advert of the 1904 model that advertises the 4-person and 2-person model that had a proper steering wheel, rather than the tiller steering on my one. Keep up the good work. I eagerly look forward to reading your posts. Hello Mike, Thank you for the friendly words. No problem with the questions, that is the purpose of the forum (as I see it). I am sorry to say, but I don't have drawings of the toneau. What I do, I make a mock-up, and go ahead and adjusting and tuning during building. Fifteen years ago I got some low resolution pictures of the car from the owner of the only other 1 cylinder Cleveland. Furthermore I copied and enlarged the drawings of the 1 cylinder Cleveland from the sales catalog. That is all the documentation I have. If you like it, I can make a sort of drawing by putting detail pictures of the toneau in PowerPoint sheets, and add dimensions and construction details for building a toneau. As far as I can see the side panels of the toneau of the car below, they are straight and not curved as the Cleveland. That makes building one a whole lot easier. Mike just a question: is the front seat of your car made of wood, or has it a wooden frame and is it covered with steel sheet? I included a picture of another British Crestmobile. Regards, Harm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Sloth said: If you like it, I can make a sort of drawing by putting detail pictures of the toneau in PowerPoint sheets, and add dimensions and construction details for building a toneau. No need to Harm. I was just interested on how you went about the woodwork. The only woodwork I have been involved with was making the hoops (bows) for the hood (top) for my Humberette. Thanks for the photo of the other Crestmobile. I have saved it in my file. That car was on the London to Brighton run when Jane and I did it in 2012, although I did not get to talk to the owner. I haven't done the run since. It was a lovely day for a trip to Brighton in and open car! I' have got less wet when I've been swimming! The seat is all wood and an open frame under the seat squab. I can take a photo if it is any help to you. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Hello Harm, What a great report to keep us enthused to work on our own projects! Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) On 12/28/2019 at 5:34 PM, Mike Macartney said: No need to Harm. I was just interested on how you went about the woodwork. The only woodwork I have been involved with was making the hoops (bows) for the hood (top) for my Humberette. Thanks for the photo of the other Crestmobile. I have saved it in my file. That car was on the London to Brighton run when Jane and I did it in 2012, although I did not get to talk to the owner. I haven't done the run since. Hello Mike, The story in your Humberette blog of your London Brighton Crestmobile experience is wonderful and very recognizable for Anna and me. When Anna and I married, we went the other year to London. It was the first weekend in November, visiting theaters, Kew garden and some more. We where not aware about the London to Brighton Run. But at Saturday evening we saw some (a lot) veteran cars appearing at the hotel. We asked what it was going on, and spent a very pleasant evening with some attendants . Sunday morning we set course to Hyde park. It was freezing cold but dry, and we had a lot of fun. Watching the starting cars was something to be seen. After a while, Anna tapped me on the shoulder and said: that is what I want to do some time in the future. Well, at that time, not fully aware the expense of such a pre-1905 car, the subject was brought to a rest for a very long time (we are now 42 years married 😊)... At the year 2001 we bought the remains of the Cleveland, and the rest is history as they say. Regards, Harm Edited December 29, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 Today, I spend with completing the mock-up (more or less 😉). It is a bit difficult to get the right form of the seats, only reference I have are the pictures of Roger Weiss's car, and a sales catalog picture. I made it with cheap plywood, leftover slats and some stiff paper (its floor protecting paper for painting walls etc., cheap and plentiful available). Side view of toneau seat Inside view of mock up construction Top view of toneau seat mock up. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Hello Harm, What a nice start to your tonneau! Will the back corners of your seat be built in the dame fashion as the back corners of your front seat? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 15 hours ago, Sloth said: Anna tapped me on the shoulder and said: that is what I want to do some time in the future. . . . . and I am sure you will. Unfortunately, the price of these pre 1905 cars is out of all proportion to what they should be worth. Look at the much lower prices that 1905 onwards cars sell for and you will see what I mean. The London to Brighton run, in my opinion, has become rather elitist, if that is the correct word. From my limited experience of only entering on one occasion. It appeared that a number of entrants own cars that are prepared and looked after by specialist companies. The cars are taken to the start of the event by the specialist company. Another company moves the owners luggage to Brighton for the evening dinner and dance. It seems to have become one of the many things that the wealthy seem to need to be seen doing. I will now end my moaning! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Mike Macartney said: . . . . and I am sure you will. Unfortunately, the price of these pre 1905 cars is out of all proportion to what they should be worth. Look at the much lower prices that 1905 onwards cars sell for and you will see what I mean. The London to Brighton run, in my opinion, has become rather elitist, if that is the correct word. From my limited experience of only entering on one occasion. It appeared that a number of entrants own cars that are prepared and looked after by specialist companies. The cars are taken to the start of the event by the specialist company. Another company moves the owners luggage to Brighton for the evening dinner and dance. It seems to have become one of the many things that the wealthy seem to need to be seen doing. I will now end my moaning! Hello Mike, unfortunately, I think you are right about the London to Brighton run. At the hotel, where we stayed this year (very near Hyde Park), on Sunday morning about 5 o clock, two very large lorries turned up. Both of them containing 6 or 8 pre 1905 cars, all were unloaded. Two or three owners in sight, further, only technicians.... Later on, at the start we recognized a few of the unloaded cars, most drivers were not the people who attended unloading the cars.... Its a pity, but I hope there are some real enthusiasts left, as you and I, who do most of the work them self. Last weekend I spoke a friend who attended the LBR many times, but not 2018 and 2019. Mentioning the subject of the LBR, he told me, he considers the cost involved with attending the LBR outrageous. As he says, costs have exploded, he is a "well to do person" so money-wise no problem , but he feels its more and more becoming a commercial circus and does not want to be a part of it. But luckily for us, there are other pre 1905 events. But first I have to finish the restoration of the Cleveland. I retired at the first of June this year, and I must say, most days being in the shop, from 8 in the morning to 5 in the afternoon, gives me much pleasure and satisfaction. Regards, Harm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, What a nice start to your tonneau! Will the back corners of your seat be built in the dame fashion as the back corners of your front seat? Al Hello Al, not all the way, the rear panels of the toneau are straight, but tilted backwards. The edges will be 1/4 round as at the front seat. Today I made the first side panel, it is momentarily fixed in the die (big word for a simple wood form). Made the side panels of two layers, glued together, flexible plywood. Tomorrow I will see what has become of it. Regards, Harm Edited December 30, 2019 by Sloth (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Hello Harm, You are certainly making good progress. You will soon be building the rear door, jam structure and also be after the hinges and latch. Have you located a source for those items yet? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 14 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Harm, You are certainly making good progress. You will soon be building the rear door, jam structure and also be after the hinges and latch. Have you located a source for those items yet? Al Hello Al, Yes, its going well. I guess next week I will build the door. One thing I am pondering about: how to fasten the toneau on the under frame. Any idea's about this? Regards, Harm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 Anna and I wish you all a Happy and Healthy New Year! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Thanks Harm and Anna, I hope your New years Celebration was just what you wanted. We had a quite party this year, but a nice time. On the mounting question. Are you going to leave the tonneau permanently attached or design it to be removable? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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